Lord of the Rings mafia [Town wins]

[pmchugh]

Well put together mr squirrel but sorry your wrong.

In all honesty there wasn't much hard evidence against clive in the first place, but when I went over his posts instict told me there was something fishy about his play.

All you have is that he agreed with me, but there are many many possible reasons for this:

1. We are scumbuddies
2. We are masons.
3. We are lovers.
4. I am town he is scum, he is trying to associate himself with a townie.
5. I am scum he is town, I am succeeding in leading townies to believe what I mean.
6. We are both town and he just agree with me.
7. One of us is thrid party one of us is town and the same as point 6.
8. Same as above but both are unrelated 3rd party/ different scum groups.
9. Clive is a lyncher, suspect is the lynchee so when he accused me clive came to my defense.
etc. etc.

Saying that if one of us is scum then the other must be is incorrect, presenet another reason why you believe either of us to be scum or your entire point is invalid.

Although I do not neccesary disaprove of the clive lynch and I may still vote there but you need to provide better evidence other than we are linked to each other.

[Suspect101]

Well put together mr squirrel but sorry your wrong.

In all honesty there wasn't much hard evidence against clive in the first place, but when I went over his posts instict told me there was something fishy about his play.

All you have is that he agreed with me, but there are many many possible reasons for this:

1. We are scumbuddies
2. We are masons.
3. We are lovers.
4. I am town he is scum, he is trying to associate himself with a townie.
5. I am scum he is town, I am succeeding in leading townies to believe what I mean.
6. We are both town and he just agree with me.
7. One of us is thrid party one of us is town and the same as point 6.
8. Same as above but both are unrelated 3rd party/ different scum groups.
9. Clive is a lyncher, suspect is the lynchee so when he accused me clive came to my defense.
etc. etc.

Saying that if one of us is scum then the other must be is incorrect, presenet another reason why you believe either of us to be scum or your entire point is invalid.

Although I do not neccesary disaprove of the clive lynch and I may still vote there but you need to provide better evidence other than we are linked to each other.

So are you linked to each other? It seems like it from a far, and by your last post you seem to be implying that you are.

[pmchugh]

Well put together mr squirrel but sorry your wrong.

In all honesty there wasn't much hard evidence against clive in the first place, but when I went over his posts instict told me there was something fishy about his play.

All you have is that he agreed with me, but there are many many possible reasons for this:

1. We are scumbuddies
2. We are masons.
3. We are lovers.
4. I am town he is scum, he is trying to associate himself with a townie.
5. I am scum he is town, I am succeeding in leading townies to believe what I mean.
6. We are both town and he just agree with me.
7. One of us is thrid party one of us is town and the same as point 6.
8. Same as above but both are unrelated 3rd party/ different scum groups.
9. Clive is a lyncher, suspect is the lynchee so when he accused me clive came to my defense.
etc. etc.

Saying that if one of us is scum then the other must be is incorrect, presenet another reason why you believe either of us to be scum or your entire point is invalid.

Although I do not neccesary disaprove of the clive lynch and I may still vote there but you need to provide better evidence other than we are linked to each other.

So are you linked to each other? It seems like it from a far, and by your last post you seem to be implying that you are.

No read points 6 to 8. We are only linked by clive agreeing with me in the first few pages, I tried to list some possible reasons to show that just cause clive agreed with me a few times doesn't auto make us scum buddies.

[Mr. Squirrel]

Well put together mr squirrel but sorry your wrong.

In all honesty there wasn't much hard evidence against clive in the first place, but when I went over his posts instict told me there was something fishy about his play.

All you have is that he agreed with me, but there are many many possible reasons for this:

1. We are scumbuddies
2. We are masons.
3. We are lovers.
4. I am town he is scum, he is trying to associate himself with a townie.
5. I am scum he is town, I am succeeding in leading townies to believe what I mean.
6. We are both town and he just agree with me.
7. One of us is thrid party one of us is town and the same as point 6.
8. Same as above but both are unrelated 3rd party/ different scum groups.
9. Clive is a lyncher, suspect is the lynchee so when he accused me clive came to my defense.
etc. etc.

Saying that if one of us is scum then the other must be is incorrect, presenet another reason why you believe either of us to be scum or your entire point is invalid.

Although I do not neccesary disaprove of the clive lynch and I may still vote there but you need to provide better evidence other than we are linked to each other.

Let's assume one of these is true and go through the list:
1) In this case, we are in the right for lynching you
2) For some reason, I highly doubt you are masons. After all, you were voting for him as well.
3) since lovers are normally set up as mafia/town pairs, then lynching one of you would be a good idea.
4 & 5) in this case we would also want to lynch on of you
6 thru 8 ) So here you are claiming that both of you are actually innocent and just agree on many points. If this was true, you wouldn't have started calling him scummy because you would have found all of his arguments logical. So this can't be the case.
9) this one we really can't know. but in fact, getting rid of the lyncher might not be a bad thing because then we won't have him trying to influence our votes towards someone who might be a townie.

So in the end, in 1,3-5 and number 9 it would be beneficial to lynch one of you regardless of whether or not the other is scum. And since you agreed with us that clive has been acting scummy, 2 and 6-8 probably aren't right. Anyone want to check my logic? And can we get another vote count stroop?

As a more general question posed to the masses, should we be trying to lynch 3rd party members as well as mafia, or can we ignore them?

[sam_levi_11]

They can be ignored generally, unless they pose a threat to town such as lyncher.

[Minister Masket]

did you not read my reason for no lynch?

I read your reason for no lynch. No lynch is almost never good for the town, because if we no lynch, we'll just be in the same situation tomorrow, while a lynch, even a townie lynch, will let us see who went after who, who defended who, and who lurked, and we can use that information on future days to make a more informed lynch.

Yes, but you are forgetting it can swing entirely the other way. Let's say the Day 1 lynch is an unlucky townie. The majority on the bandwagon will also be townies, and chances are they will be future targets for the next lynches. Add in the night kills, and at Day 3 you're at least 5 townies down.
That's a worst case scenario though.

Vote Over-rule Rule 6
As I put in my rules - "a No Lynch is boring and hardly happens anyway" - but it's nice to have the option there.

So what you are saynig is that you want to allow no lynches, but you don't want us to no lynch? And plus your enitre first paragraph is entirely in favour of a no lynch and nothing you can say can change that.

No!
It's a statement, not an opinion.

Don't make everything I say into "YOU DO THIS NOW!"
Personally I have no opinion on a Day 1 lynch, I'm just stating the facts.

[Mr. Squirrel]

No read points 6 to 8. We are only linked by clive agreeing with me in the first few pages, I tried to list some possible reasons to show that just cause clive agreed with me a few times doesn't auto make us scum buddies.

In my previous post I think I prove that if you two are linked in some way(which it seems to be), we can assume that one or both of you are scum in which case we have at least a 50/50 shot at lynching a mafia member. If you were both innocent and neither of you were actually trying to protect the other out of any sort of scum-related bond, you would not have called him scummy and you would not have voted for him.

[Thezzaruz]

Saying that if one of us is scum then the other must be is incorrect, presenet another reason why you believe either of us to be scum or your entire point is invalid.

No it isn't. Changing "must" to "likely" does weaken his point a bit but it still has validity enough to deserve being remembered a bit longer.

So in the end, in 1,3-5 and number 9 it would be beneficial to lynch one of you regardless of whether or not the other is scum. And since you agreed with us that clive has been acting scummy, 2 and 6-8 probably aren't right. Anyone want to check my logic?

Your logic seems quite OK.

As a more general question posed to the masses, should we be trying to lynch 3rd party members as well as mafia, or can we ignore them?

The focus should ofc be on the scum but I would never steer away from a 3rd party especially if targets/info is lacking (also a SK is almost as bad as the scum faction). In short, they should never be ignored but not the focus either.

[Iliad]

I'm finding pcmhugh's behaviour quite scummy. His unrelenting pursuit of MM seems quite fishy.

I am alarmed by him pursuing MM, grasping every little straw. It very much stinks of a lyncher. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if pcmhugh is Gollum. And we all know who gollum is out to get.

Vote pcmhugh

[spiesr]

I'm finding pcmhugh's behaviour quite scummy. His unrelenting pursuit of MM seems quite fishy.

I am alarmed by him pursuing MM, grasping every little straw. It very much stinks of a lyncher. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if pcmhugh is Gollum. And we all know who gollum is out to get.

Vote pcmhugh

If that is true, could it be better asserted by MM confirming that he is who he is?

[william18]

I'm finding pcmhugh's behaviour quite scummy. His unrelenting pursuit of MM seems quite fishy.

I am alarmed by him pursuing MM, grasping every little straw. It very much stinks of a lyncher. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if pcmhugh is Gollum. And we all know who gollum is out to get.

Vote pcmhugh

If that is true, could it be better asserted by MM confirming that he is who he is?

I don't believe that would be a wise descision.

[Falkomagno]

I find hasty to say that MM is Frodo...

[AceArtemis]

I've gotten a bit behind on this game. I will read through and make an informed post tomorrow.

[Stroop]

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Vote count

Falkomagno - 1 (nagerous)
Minister Masket - 1 (spiesr)
Mr. Squirrel - 1 (karelpietertje)
AceArtemis - 1 (Falkomagno)
Clive - 4 (william18, AceArtemis, Suspect101, Thezzaruz)
sam_levi_11 - 1 (Mr. Squirrel)
pmchugh - 2 (Minister Masket, Iliad)

Not voting: sam_levi_11, Hologram, Clive, pmchugh

With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to lynch.

Remember to unvote before voting.
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[Suspect101]

It would be really nice if we could unite and pressure someone a little more to get a little more accomplished.

[Mr. Squirrel]

sorry forgot to unvote
vote clive

[spiesr]

Where's Hologram gone off to?

[Clive]

Unvote Vote: Thezzauruz

For just adding to my bandwagon with little/no reason, and saying I hadn't defended myself properly when I have nothing to defend against.

[pmchugh]

First off I will be less active cause my computer is getting mauled by viruses, so I have to share family laptop.

6 thru 8 ) So here you are claiming that both of you are actually innocent and just agree on many points. If this was true, you wouldn't have started calling him scummy because you would have found all of his arguments logical. So this can't be the case.

He agreed with me not the other way round, he can find my arguments logical while I don't find his so.

I'm finding pcmhugh's behaviour quite scummy. His unrelenting pursuit of MM seems quite fishy.

I am alarmed by him pursuing MM, grasping every little straw. It very much stinks of a lyncher. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if pcmhugh is Gollum. And we all know who gollum is out to get.

Vote pcmhugh

Erm I am not even voting for him, don't mistake disagreeing and pursuing relentlessly. I haven't even voted for MM and it's just the way I play, I had an argument with suspect earlier while believeing him to be town and I am having an argument with Mr S now who I also believe to be town. You see scum like to sit in the shadows and come out when they think there is a townie they can lynch, sound like anyone you know illy? And the best way to get them to reveal themselves is through arguing and see who's side they take and the reasons they give.

[AceArtemis]

Here's my thoughts on some important players in the game.

MM- MM isn't contributing anything to Day 1, and is posting only to defend himself. He assumes that Day 1 is pointless and will have no part in any Day 1 scumhunting. This is anti-town, but not necessarily a scumtell because it could simply be the way MM plays.

pmc- Like he said, pmc has been helpful and constructive in all our day 1 discussion. Pmc has been connected to Clive, but associative scumtells are not necessarily useful on Day 1. Yes, Mr. S, if Clive turns out to be scum, then pmc would look very scummy, and we should probably pressure pmc at that point, but for now all we have are that they are connected. I want to keep pmc around for now because pmc is usually helpful and constructive, and he usually posts often, so we'll have a lot to analyze of him on future days just in case he is scum.

Clive- The case against Clive is that he has been voting for people on the pmc bandwagon, and thus defending his scumbuddy. Again, associative scumtells aren't that useful on Day 1, but I feel Clive is the best Day 1 lynch right now because if we know whether Clive is scum or town, we can make some sense of the connection between pmc and Clive. As a result, my vote stays on Clive until someone comes up with a better Day 1 lynch.

[nagerous]

I'm going to unvote for now, as my vote on falco was just random.

[nagerous]

Also, has anyone else noticed that sam levi still has hardly posted, even after he admitted to 'forgetting' about the game?

I havent forgotten, but i cant post at weekends often as im busy then. Even so, i find this bangwagon on clive rather baseless. As he said, it based on that he is cosistant. Pmc then said this was a scum tell, which it isnt. He seems determined to get clive lynched. fos pmc

fos on him indeed!
let's not forget that he was the one who started with immediately voting on somebody... I still can't see why a townie would do that.

vote karelpieterje

Just my assessment of things so far.. what he is doing here is a classic newbie scum strategy.

FOSing the person who is under pressure from the vote - clive in this case, but not actually going as far to put a vote on him in order to keep under the radar so to speak. He also, attempts to provide evidence against clive too in order to subtely build a case against him. I will not be voting clive as this particular bandwagon stinks of a scummy set up.

[nagerous]

sorry I have been a little busy.
can maybe someone obiectively explain what the case again Clive is (he has 4 votes!)

A little busy to post here but not too busy to play a large number of speed games that same week. Lynch all liars!

[pmchugh]

Good points from ace and nag, I am tempted to vote clive just for the information his lynch would reveal but I think I will refrain for now.

And I would like to hear karel's response before stating my opinion there.

[Stroop]

Day 1 with 19 posts is awesome, but keep it up

Being a bit loose concerning rule 10, mainly because I know how hard it can be to keep saying stuff on day 1. I think I will be replacing Holo very soon though.