Final Fantasy VII Mafia - Shinra Corporation and Elena win

[killboy108]

ETP

You see Zimmah posting that he is saying "you want a mass roleclaim on D1" or something of the sort.

Unvote (if I had one) Vote Doom for skimming.

Why does ghostly say "if I had one" here? Why wouldn't he have a vote?

I think he means if he had already placed a vote he wishes to unvote it...

No big deal except what sort of person can't keep track of if they've place a vote or not???

A scummy one!

Na, just joking. lol

[Dukasaur]

FIgures I would be at the top of the list, when I'm the completely raw rookie who has never played Mafia before and has no clue. If I'd been at the bottom of the list I could have gone through other people's responses and plagiarized them to sound competent...

Well, I'll try. Keep in mind that there is very little to go on yet. But the tiny sliver of what is available I will try to analyze.

First, off, I'll ignore the confusion that zimmah started by misunderstanding Doom's use of the word "rollcall". While it did seem at the time like a scummy thing to do, I take note of the fact that zimmah is Dutch, and although his English is very good it's probably not perfect, so I'm quite ready to believe that the misunderstanding was accidental rather than deliberate.

There is something that struck me as possibly significant, a few pages back. If you recall, Victor passed out some cryptic hints, which some of us were trying to analyse for possible content. (Incidentally, now that I've studied a lot of FF VII screenshots, I pretty much agree with the majority: Red XIII does look like a dog, even though the game specs say he's a lion, and Dark Nation does look like a panther, even though the game specs say he's a guard dog. Obviously the geeks at SquareSoft spend too much time in front of their monitors and don't get out to the zoo very often.)

Anyway, that didn't really give us any firm conclusions about Victor, but at the end of it there's a bunch of responses from chapcrap, sg7, and ghostly, all earnestly assuring us that they don't know anything about the game and don't really care. I find that just a little suspicious. I haven't played FF VII either, but in preparation for this game I read 2 plot synopsis, walkthroughs, character fansites (I now KNOW that I want to nail Tifa, if she ever takes off those stupid-looking army boots!) and various other supporting material. While I don't expect everyone to be as thorough, I think that nobody can be quite that cavalier without faking it. I'm going to have my eye on those three.

[new guy1]

okay, now that Duka has done his role call, i am here. Ive been reading every day, but before the request of a roll-call most of the talk was about the actual FF games, and i, for the sake of my boredom, i searched for any mafia game... i read a game synopsis when i got my role, but thats about all i have to go on for now.

the person i think is scummiest looking for now would most likely be ghostly, but since he is new, I'm not going to try and pressure him too much... yet. I'm sorry i don't have much to say, but pretty much the only discussion we have had on the game was the one after yoshi asked for a roll-call, and duka basically summed it up above me... thats basically all i have to say for now, maybe on day two we will have some leads to go off of.

[ghostly447]

It is not quite my turn to do this roll-call yet, but I am going to at least take note of what is going on around me. FOS new guy1 and Duka.

To start, I dont think I have seen many posts from them in awhile (just starts me off a little with an odd feeling). I also read a small bit into the games detailing, though not much. Just main antagonists and protagonists. The characters in other words. I understand that the protagonists have a main antagonist that they wish to catch, and one that they expect they must also catch (I cant quite remember as I have only looked at it once. After we get a claim I will do further delving into it to relate to a possible fake claim, but for now, nothing.).

[DoomYoshi]

Wow. Nearly 3 pages after my post. It was a success. The reason it is a rollcall because everybody has to post to let us know they are here and following the discussion. Sorry about the confusion. For future reference, if I want a massclaim, I will ask for one (and I have in the past, so I know this to be true).

My most scummy target is Victor.

#1) I hate how artificially crafted his own meta is. Drives me nuts and drives newer players who don't know how to deal with him nuts too.

#2) It is fine and dandy to roleplay a bit. However, generic roleplaying without revealing your character is far more useful to us. You can explore the Gold Saucer without being one of the main characters for instance. Softclaiming is annoying. Rather than answering people's confusion, Sully went further into confusion with those soundtrack links. Spreading confusion is pretty scummy I think.

#3) The mafia have fakeclaims. Good fakeclaims.This pretty much mandates that I have to be extra suspicious of players who claim, softly or not.

[DoomYoshi]

Updated list
21. Dukasaur
18. new guy1
4. DoomYoshi
15. MOB Deadly
3. Commander9
9. VioIet
13. wildwilliam
14. zimmah
10. drake_259
19. ghostly447
11. maximumbandit
6. strike wolf
24. dazza2008
2. edocsil
8. alt1978
25. chapcrap
23. slowreactor
1. shieldgenerator7
7. Victor Sullivan
12. Djfireside
17. agentcom
20. Master Bush
16. thehippo8
5. killboy108
22. Eldario

This was randomized according to random.org. Let the fun begin

[strike wolf]

Ghostly, do you mind answering my question?

Somewhere around here when he said "Pick who you think is most scummy and why". FOS on doom and on C9.

Ok ghost. I may be able to believe your reasoning but if this line wasn't referencing what com9 asked about zimmah's statement what was does it mean? Becaus e out of that context it doesn't seem to make any sense from my angle and honestly I got the same meaning out of it that com9 did.

[Commander9]

Ahh, my response on what?
I don't want to let you down since I'm getting you all excited over there

To the response that the person you voted said.

[MoB Deadly]

Alright, my turn it is

I am here and reading along. I have not been participating as much as I like to, I pick up more when there are real cases that are presented. I am just not a fan of going through Victor Sullivan's flavor posts. The reason being is because I do not believe it accomplishes anything. It allows scum to participate in discussion without posting anything relevant to the game. His "softclaim" if we can even figure it out, will not be much of use to us anyway. All scum are most likely given fakeclaims (I think Rodion did confirm that all "anti-town" were given fakeclaims if I remember correctly.) So his flavor posts essentially do nothing, unless scum don't follow their fake characters and picks Sully's.

However, I do not count those posts against VS unless its the focal point of his posts past Day 1. His posts generate discussion, and I would rather have those posts, than having to constantly bug people to make a post.

Thanks to Doom for thinking this up, I think this is ideal to promote discussion, but more importantly relevant discussion to the game.

One person that has stuck out a little in my eyes is Dazza. Although it is not much, but every single one of his posts have been one liners, not a single post with any length or substance. Again, it's day 1 and we all play differently, I expect him to contribute more today as cases develop and in the following days. If this trend continues, he definitely gets my vote. In addition to being short posts, his posts are just negative in general, however he is not doing anything to resolve it.

Take eldario off my prod list. I noticed he was talking just a few posts up.

Day 1 only started on Saturday and weekends are always quite quiet. Why are you talking of prods already?

I'm already blown away...i could have swore red xiii was a dog. In the renaming options area i even creatively renamed him "mad dog"...because he of his brutal spinning attack...

Did not see lion coming on that one.

I am pretty sure it never says what he is. It is to be interpreted that he is a red lion (cat) OR wolf like beast (dog).

but I am pretty sure that it never actually says he is one or the other. correct me if i am wrong. So either could be correct.

Will this help us catch scum? If not can we play the game?

Fastposted a couple times

[dazza2008]

Everyone always says we should post more that 1 line. All I did was aske a question. Why would I right a book to ask what I asked?

[Commander9]

As I've said, due to the a pretty severe lack of content, there's really not that much to say, but I will say what it's on my mind now. Firstly, as far as Sully goes, that is noteworthy and it may be good to come back there some time later, but as of now - I do not consider it to be worthy of pressure. As far as our to lovely new guys are concerned, I believe their misreadings and reactions so far not to be worthy of anything more than a FoS and should not be used as anything else as of now - they can be great references for the future, however.

Now, for those that I actually consider somewhat scummy:
I) DoomYoshi - while I can understand initiation of this discussion and I do think it's beneficial for town, it's a very easy way to appear pro-town without much effort and earn lots of brownie points. I can easily see a more experienced player doing something like this (or even more complex) in order to be appear town(ish) and have a safe pass for the future and use this as one of the focal points to show that he's contributing to the discussion and town. This is especially true that due to the fact that we're so early in the game and a lot of posts have been somewhat off-topic, there's little substance to base our suspicions on and this just seems like an easy way to see who most people consider to be suspicious and then voting him. Of course, I'm not saying that he's mafia and apart from this, I really have nothing else on him, but I do think it's noteworthy.

II) killboy108 - he posts frequently enough to appear active, yet has provided little to no substance. His vote on an inactive when it's already been noted that voting on inactives right now would achieve little only furthers my suspicions. Most of his posts are Victoresque, if you will: they're quite short, contribute nothing to the discussion, show that he's active and they're usually have some level of humour in order to keep people at bay. In essence, it's same like Yoshi - with so little to go by, there's really not that much you can get from this and while I wouldn't mind pressuring him, it's nothing more than just keeping an eye on him for me as of now.

Then of course, there are the likes of Vio and few others, who while have been online at least few hours for the past few days, didn't bother to post a thing, but I'm still hoping that as the game will change gears and will get fired up, they'll finally give us the honours and will participate too

[Commander9]

Also, to those of you have not seen it (and to test the new function):

[Rodion]

Check the one they made to showcase PS3 graphics. It also has Cloud's entrance (I love Cloud!).

[zimmah]

First, off, I'll ignore the confusion that zimmah started by misunderstanding Doom's use of the word "rollcall". While it did seem at the time like a scummy thing to do, I take note of the fact that zimmah is Dutch, and although his English is very good it's probably not perfect, so I'm quite ready to believe that the misunderstanding was accidental rather than deliberate.

.

i never understood the word rollcal and actually read rolecall the first time i read it and assumed it was just his way of saying roleclaim, and since it included everyone, i assumed he called for a massclaim. i'm still not completely sure what he wants from us though

[DoomYoshi]

What we are doing is going through everybody, according to the random list I made, in order and that person is writing down who they think is most scummy and why.

It is a way to bring the discussion around to the mafia game, as opposed to the randomness from before. Also, it ensures that everybody is participating.

@Commander, I understand your point, and find it ironic. Surely you understand there is no defense I can make for it though. Also, it seems like you have a problem with the OSA boys lol.

[killboy108]

Ahh, my response on what?
I don't want to let you down since I'm getting you all excited over there

To the response that the person you voted said.

Yeah, I'll remove my vote when I place a new vote for someone. (I hope this floats your boat)

* Disclaimer: killboy will always through in some humour. Traces of substance is purely accidental & unintentional.

Check that out, a one liner, a little humour, no substance & I'm part of the OSA...

Seriously though, I'll contribute my thoughts on my suspicions (with substance) on my role call turn.

[ghostly447]

Ghostly, do you mind answering my question?

Somewhere around here when he said "Pick who you think is most scummy and why". FOS on doom and on C9.

Ok ghost. I may be able to believe your reasoning but if this line wasn't referencing what com9 asked about zimmah's statement what was does it mean? Becaus e out of that context it doesn't seem to make any sense from my angle and honestly I got the same meaning out of it that com9 did.

Ahh, but I do believe it was answered (not directly to you) on page 17. I believe I explained that I got confused somehow into thinking doomyoshi posted pick who you think is scummy with zimmah actually posting it (it was what zimmah said in reply which drove my argument, but I had not been on for 2 days and came to the conclusion with 1-2 others that it was more misunderstanding of who said what due to me having to catch up on 3-4 pages (I think all about FF). Then it finally got to where Doom said he wanted a mass thought on who people thought was most suspicious. Then I read zimmahs post, and went back and posted.

It is unlike me to go back and not at least quote the time something was posted, but I believe it was the initial rush and the need to also read through another 6 pages I missed in my other game. I also wouldnt normally leave 10 pages of straight read for 1 night, but I was sick and didnt feel like reading the night before.

So, recap for people who want an easy read.
I was sick, and had 10 pages to read through. It was the first bit of action and I immediately posted without using my normal method of going back, re reading, etc, and gathering my words before posting. Even afterwards I still thought I was correct until I went back and began reading. It led to an immediate correction of my actions.

[Victor Sullivan]

Just havin' a grand ol' time at the Gold Saucer...


As far as the allegations against me, Day 1 isn't serious business, especially early on, and it's true that it's difficult to spur conversations many times. I thought my posts would do just that, which they did. In addition, mafia's claims I believe may not be as solid as you think, as I thought it was stated that mafia could have fake-claims of characters that are actually in the game, just from either the movie or the game (whichever was not used), with only one being the real one. But perhaps I'm mistaken on that.

But Commander9 does bring up a good point on DoomYoshi. We can't have him leading the discussion absolutely.

-Sully

[DoomYoshi]

But Commander9 does bring up a good point on DoomYoshi. We can't have him leading the discussion absolutely.

-Sully

What does leading the discussion absolutely mean compared to leading the conversation non-absolutely? I wouldn't say I am leading the discussion, so much as moderating, inspiring and - most importantly - ensuring it.

[Victor Sullivan]

But Commander9 does bring up a good point on DoomYoshi. We can't have him leading the discussion absolutely.

-Sully

What does leading the discussion absolutely mean compared to leading the conversation non-absolutely? I wouldn't say I am leading the discussion, so much as moderating, inspiring and - most importantly - ensuring it.

Perhaps you see it that way, and I'm not so much worried about it Day 1, but I don't want to see a pattern, if you know what I mean.

-Sully

[chapcrap]

Com9's comment on DoomYoshi is WIFOM. He nearly stated as much, but basically, Doom should not be considered scummy or townish because of it.

In response to what Duke said about me here: viewtopic.php?f=213&t=146551&start=255#p3503481

All I said was that I don't remember much of the game from my very small amount of FF gameplay years ago. I never said I didn't care. I do care because it involves aspects of this mafia game. However, I had nothing to add to the discussion. That does not mean that I didn't pay attention to it.

I agree with that Victor's actions were confusing and very Victoresque (to steal a word from Com9). As far as day 1 goes, pressuring Sully or killboy would be my choices as of now. Of course, when isn't pressuring VS an option?

[slowreactor]

Let's get this game moving...

Unvote, VOTE: agentcom until he casts vote.

I've been lurking just not voting. Not really too worried about having one vote against me. But hey, I might as well

vote killboy108

... so now you're gonna unvote me right?

Also, no idea what any of the FF talk is. Same as ghostly just wanted to try out some of this mafia stuff. Starting to think I picked the wrong one, since this one seems so damn complicated

I don't think it's just the possible OMGUS vote here that is noteworthy (might be a jokevote, might not), it's also the fact that he just admitted to lurking. Therefore unvote vote agentcom.

It (the vote) was just a joke ... Maybe lurking has some other meaning here than on other forums. All I meant was that I've been keeping up with the discussion. I just didn't really have anything to add to it. I know nothing about FF, so I'll probably not be adding much to the FF-centered conversations.

Also, had to look up what OMGUS meant. In doing so found out that it is considered poor strategy haha. Oh well.

Very well. With this & Comm's post after I will unvote.

And at doom's attempt at getting activity up, there is one thing that I don't like about it, and it's that it makes people who can't argue as well look scummy. Essentially, this givs a template for all the arguments, and will result in them being compared to each other. As a result, newbs and people who can't talk as well will look scummier than vets, even more so than normal discussion.

[Commander9]

Check the one they made to showcase PS3 graphics. It also has Cloud's entrance (I love Cloud!).

As great and awesome Cloud is... Zack is the true hero of the series

@Commander, I understand your point, and find it ironic. Surely you understand there is no defense I can make for it though. Also, it seems like you have a problem with the OSA boys lol.

Oh, I know that there's no defence to that. However, you've asked everyone to let our their current thoughts about what's happening and I did just that - since you've started, you should definitely have enough stomach to read the comments To state what I've stated before: In no way am I saying that you have to be scum... Nor I am saying that you're town/can't be town. However, I've seen method like this being implemented quite a few times before by scum to appear town(ish) - and that's all I've pointed out. Notice that my vote is not on you and I really didn't imply that we should pressure you: think of that comment as a future reference that if I'll find something additionally scummy or if I'll see a particular pattern, I could bring that up again to add to the case. That's all.

Oh and yes - FOED feels very threatened by OSA recently, so they've dispatched me to the mafia forums to crush all OSA members on Mafia thread

Yeah, I'll remove my vote when I place a new vote for someone. (I hope this floats your boat)

* Disclaimer: killboy will always through in some humour. Traces of substance is purely accidental & unintentional.

Check that out, a one liner, a little humour, no substance & I'm part of the OSA...

Seriously though, I'll contribute my thoughts on my suspicions (with substance) on my role call turn.

My boat floats all the time, babe In all seriousness, I can't say that you really look like a definite scum, but out of all the current people in the game, if I'd be forced to pick one to pressure, that would be you. Since normally going day 1 without even attempting a lynch and getting no information is not a good idea, I've put it out there due to the nature of Yoshi's template.

Just havin' a grand ol' time at the Gold Saucer...


As far as the allegations against me, Day 1 isn't serious business, especially early on, and it's true that it's difficult to spur conversations many times. I thought my posts would do just that, which they did. In addition, mafia's claims I believe may not be as solid as you think, as I thought it was stated that mafia could have fake-claims of characters that are actually in the game, just from either the movie or the game (whichever was not used), with only one being the real one. But perhaps I'm mistaken on that.

Ah, enjoying some private time with Barret, Sully?

I generally agree with what he said here and you are correct - Rodion said that due to the lack of characters (which I disagree with, but that's another matter) that some characters may be used more than once and that all mafia will have strong fake claims.

And at doom's attempt at getting activity up, there is one thing that I don't like about it, and it's that it makes people who can't argue as well look scummy. Essentially, this givs a template for all the arguments, and will result in them being compared to each other. As a result, newbs and people who can't talk as well will look scummier than vets, even more so than normal discussion.

Exactly. Especially note that due to the lack of content, it's essentially even more difficult for newer players to come up with good arguments. However, but the pressure/lynch him for this would be going to far - I just think we should keep this in mind, that's it.

[Victor Sullivan]

Just havin' a grand ol' time at the Gold Saucer...


As far as the allegations against me, Day 1 isn't serious business, especially early on, and it's true that it's difficult to spur conversations many times. I thought my posts would do just that, which they did. In addition, mafia's claims I believe may not be as solid as you think, as I thought it was stated that mafia could have fake-claims of characters that are actually in the game, just from either the movie or the game (whichever was not used), with only one being the real one. But perhaps I'm mistaken on that.

Ah, enjoying some private time with Barret, Sully?

What? No. Why- why would you think that- that I was out with Barret? Heh. I mean, he's a nice guy, but, I mean, we're just friends. Yeah, just a nice guy. A brawny, chocolately, handsome guy... *cough* *clears throat* Uhh, what was the question again?

I generally agree with what he said here and you are correct - Rodion said that due to the lack of characters (which I disagree with, but that's another matter) that some characters may be used more than once and that all mafia will have strong fake claims.

Ah, yes, you're right. I was mistaken:

Rodion - a quick question. Assuming from the title, it's only the original characters from FF VII and there won't be any characters from the expanded universe? (Zack et alii)

Well, Zack appears in the videogame (flashbacks), so I wouldn't rule him out. I'm also considering providing mafia with fake claims, so I'd have to use both the game and the movie (Advent Children) to expand characters (pretty much like was done in Terminator mafia, the same character could exist twice: one from the game and one from the movie).

I don't plan on including Before Crisis, Crisis Core and Dirge of Cerberus.

I guess for some reason I thought he wasn't going to have duplicates

-Sully

[Dukasaur]

First, off, I'll ignore the confusion that zimmah started by misunderstanding Doom's use of the word "rollcall". While it did seem at the time like a scummy thing to do, I take note of the fact that zimmah is Dutch, and although his English is very good it's probably not perfect, so I'm quite ready to believe that the misunderstanding was accidental rather than deliberate.

.

i never understood the word rollcal and actually read rolecall the first time i read it and assumed it was just his way of saying roleclaim, and since it included everyone, i assumed he called for a massclaim. i'm still not completely sure what he wants from us though

"roll" in this sense is not related to "role." It is actually a degenerate descendant of "scroll."

Basically when everyone had to report for service to their lord, the lord's herald would read a list of all the villagers' names, and each one would answer loudly with something like, "Yea, ready to do my duty!" (And under their breath with something more like, "yes, I'm here to carry your shield, you repulsive fat f*ck, even though I should be home harvesting the barley.")

So that's what rollcall means, calling out all the names on the scroll, one at a time, and waiting for a response.