Rolegift Mafia, All Present

[Commander9]

Could be paranoid, or insane (which is more useful). But I agree that the results are unreliable until we get an innocent response from that board if it happens at all.

Actually, I completely forgot that it could be insane as well, so I guess you're correct. I actually thought of not sending the gift anymore - glad you posted that.

[pancakemix]

To whoever got the library card, please share your results.

I have reason to suspect naxus based on his reaction to the Squirrel lynch yesterday. Here are his posts and my analyses of them. After that, you be the judge.

Ga7 busdriving himself seems incredibly risky given the random nature of this game.

The killer of GA7 feels like a serial Killer or vig. But a SK gift seems somewhat cray to me.

Kwans Ouja board for an investigation seems somewhat shaky for being a basic cop, Could be paranoid along with insane. for the moment FOS Kwan

I will not comment on the first two lines because they aren't particularly relevant. It's the third line that bothers me. At the point where Kwan's investigation is being completely disregarded as evidence, he brings it back up, determines it to be unreliable to some extent (already established), and FOSs him. The only possibilities I can gather from this are:

1. Naxus is a little behind/skimming. Not implausible, but unlikely the whole picture. Naxus is commenting on the post above his, which deals with ga7 busdriving himself. This is reasonably within the realm of skimming, but the Kwan comment sort of debunks that idea. At the same time, though, if he brought up the Kwan thing because he didn't know it was being disregarded, skimming seems like a reasonable explanation. If there is skimming going on, it's not the biggest scumtell.

2. Naxus is trying to draw attention from Squirrel. All of the logic to put Squirrel away was out in the thread at that point (and Safari finally put it beyond doubt a few posts later). So why would naxus bring up Kwan? It's not because he REALLY thinks there's reason to suspect him. Otherwise, he would have actually voted him. And it's not like he doesn't understand the game mechanics because his only question dealt with whether or not mafia had gifts to send (which may or may not be implicating). So for what other reason would he bring something up other than the open-shut lynch than that he and Squirrel are scum buddies?

Then there's this:

Could safariguy be a lyncher with squirell as his target?

Just as an aside, I sorta got the impression that there are no third parties. That said, this conjecture was obviously not the case. But why even bring it up? Seems like he's grasping at straws to keep Squirrel from the gallows.

Is squirell at L-1 or L-2

This is his most recent post. It asks how many votes Squirrel has until lynch, but doesn't indicate any course of action based on the answer. These posts lead me to theorize that naxus is scum and was afraid to vote for his partner. I don't see anything which indicates the contrary, so I'd like to hear his response. And again, I'd like to hear what the library turned up.

vote naxus

[kwanton]

Sorry guys for the inactivity. I had to go away for the last few pages of yesterday. I came back a little bit into night just in time to get my roles. I'm guessing this is why day started saturday instead of thursday. really sorry guys but I'm around now. It was just the end of this past week I was away.

moving on...

I got the library card last (cop) last night and the magnifying glass (tracker). Unfortunately / said that nothing came back on my actions. He didn't say anything about a roleblock tho which caught my attention. At this point I'd like to ask whoever used the roleblock last night and the night before to come forward and say who they roleblocked. You don't have to of course if you think it would hurt you somehow but it shouldnt be an issue. I'm asking for the person who received the gift not gave it so it shouldn't expose a power role. I think there might be more than one role which can effectively stop actions besides a roleblock. That would explain the lack of things happening at night. Especially since we have a 15 person game. Usually in a game this big the dawn scene has a lot more going on than what we've seen.

I am 100% sure now that the library card is sane and the ouija board is paranoid with the investigation on skoff. I'm a little rusty, so correct me if I'm wrong but insane cop is random right? Could be a possibility but it's doubtful since I've only ever seen that role in fircoal's games. (Dunno if anyone else has started adopting it since I stopped playing tho.)

And I was going to point out naxus's post too. It made me go WTF when I read it but after I thought about it, it seemed like more of a fundamental misunderstanding of the game mechanics on his part rather than a scumtell. Either way, PCM makes some good point. Naxus got anything to say?

[Haggis_McMutton]

Insane cop gets opposite results(innocent for scum, guilty for town). IMO it's more likely that the ouija board is insane as a completely useless gift(paranoid) would be kind of weird.

Anyway, the case on naxus seems decent(mostly the association with squirrel). I'll wait to see what he says though.

[kwanton]

ok ty. I was thinking of fircoal's random cop role then.

[aage]

Insane cop gets opposite results(innocent for scum, guilty for town). IMO it's more likely that the ouija board is insane as a completely useless gift(paranoid) would be kind of weird.

Anyway, the case on naxus seems decent(mostly the association with squirrel). I'll wait to see what he says though.

A paranoid cop is always a useless role. I don't see why it couldn't be a gift.

[Skoffin]

Well as commander claims to be giving out a cop gift while I know I am town, the possibility of an insane cop is still open. Of course we won't know for sure until we get a different result. We should keep both possibilities in mind though.

I'll mention that there is a roleblock power out there as I received it night one (used in on TWO). Kwan seems to have been blocked, or could be lying, so it appears that the doctor saved someone from the scum.
I'll just mention that I also had a killing power night one (which I did not use), I was assuming it came from ga7 (as I imagine he'd be likely to pick me) plus it's flavour came as fireworks which match the day two title. Thus confirming in my mind that night one was certainly an anti-town kill, not a vig. (Just in the event that people start wondering if the anti-town can kill on their own)

[Fircoal]

I was thte one that got the roleblovk this last night (rope) I used it on Commander. I wonder if the power was bus driven. I also got some bandages (doc protection) which I use don Safari. MAybe Safari was the one targeted?

[spiesr]

jailkeep (moldy cheese that made someone sick and scared away any killers)

Mr. Squirrel claimed to have a jail keeper power on night 1. While we can't be 100% sure that this was accurate, it seems unlikely that he would have made that all up, as it ended up hindering his defense. This role may have come into play last night? Also, Squirrel himself had gave the Commuter power. If he sent it to someone yesterday they would have had that last night. Did kwanton use both of his powers on the same person perhaps?

[naxus]

To whoever got the library card, please share your results.

I have reason to suspect naxus based on his reaction to the Squirrel lynch yesterday. Here are his posts and my analyses of them. After that, you be the judge.

Ga7 busdriving himself seems incredibly risky given the random nature of this game.

The killer of GA7 feels like a serial Killer or vig. But a SK gift seems somewhat cray to me.

Kwans Ouja board for an investigation seems somewhat shaky for being a basic cop, Could be paranoid along with insane. for the moment FOS Kwan

I will not comment on the first two lines because they aren't particularly relevant. It's the third line that bothers me. At the point where Kwan's investigation is being completely disregarded as evidence, he brings it back up, determines it to be unreliable to some extent (already established), and FOSs him. The only possibilities I can gather from this are:

1. Naxus is a little behind/skimming. Not implausible, but unlikely the whole picture. Naxus is commenting on the post above his, which deals with ga7 busdriving himself. This is reasonably within the realm of skimming, but the Kwan comment sort of debunks that idea. At the same time, though, if he brought up the Kwan thing because he didn't know it was being disregarded, skimming seems like a reasonable explanation. If there is skimming going on, it's not the biggest scumtell.

Kwans investigation was still being discussed in the post's above mine. I was just adding my opinion on the matter. It is not until the next page that it is completely established that that investigation is BS.
GA7's busdrive of Himself(Herself?IDK) seems like a risky move if I were in her shoes. There are a infinite number of accidents that could occur. I wouldn't call it skimming if the post above that one ask's if GA7 could've busdrived her/himself. Me voicing my opinion is scummy?

2. Naxus is trying to draw attention from Squirrel. All of the logic to put Squirrel away was out in the thread at that point (and Safari finally put it beyond doubt a few posts later). So why would naxus bring up Kwan? It's not because he REALLY thinks there's reason to suspect him. Otherwise, he would have actually voted him. And it's not like he doesn't understand the game mechanics because his only question dealt with whether or not mafia had gifts to send (which may or may not be implicating). So for what other reason would he bring something up other than the open-shut lynch than that he and Squirrel are scum buddies?

WAIT GUYS!!!!

What if one of these cop roles is from a MAFIA COP GIFTER!!!!!!!!! They could both be sane and / is messing around with us. O.O

Also can someone please send me a gift today. I feel unloved. D:

I brought up kwan as with the Ouja board alot of things were possible. The above post could've been a possibility, Kwan could've been lying, and a few other things could happen.

Also when is trying to figure out the mechanics of a game scummy?

Also this quote from skoffin in that wall of text a few pages back explains how my gut instincts help me out

I get a sense that Squirrel is leaning town, but he also seems to be a clever one that could be throwing me off.

I thought squirrel was town from the way his first day actions were. I was wrong obviously

Then there's this:

Could safariguy be a lyncher with squirell as his target?

Just as an aside, I sorta got the impression that there are no third parties. That said, this conjecture was obviously not the case. But why even bring it up? Seems like he's grasping at straws to keep Squirrel from the gallows.

Since I have no idea if Im town or third party, and neither do any of you, Third party is as likely here as anything else we've seen. First day investigation's are always taken with a bit of salt as they could be lying through their teeth. With safariguy pursuing squirell like he did, I assumed lyncher If the investigation came up to be false.

Is squirell at L-1 or L-2

This is his most recent post. It asks how many votes Squirrel has until lynch, but doesn't indicate any course of action based on the answer. These posts lead me to theorize that naxus is scum and was afraid to vote for his partner. I don't see anything which indicates the contrary, so I'd like to hear his response. And again, I'd like to hear what the library turned up.

vote naxus

I didn't want to actually hammer squirrel as I was still undecided about him. My instinct that leaned him towards town turned out wrong.

And for the second day in a row, I received no gifts
Also kinda a quick wagon on a flimsy case...

[safariguy5]

Since I have no idea if Im town or third party, and neither do any of you, Third party is as likely here as anything else we've seen. First day investigation's are always taken with a bit of salt as they could be lying through their teeth. With safariguy pursuing squirell like he did, I assumed lyncher If the investigation came up to be false.


And for the second day in a row, I received no gifts
Also kinda a quick wagon on a flimsy case...

How would I be lying through my teeth? Did I not mention that this may be the only setup where all investigations can safely be revealed because the cop is still unknown? I don't understand how you could automatically assume a lyncher role based on a guilty investigation and the gift flavor strongly suggestion sane cop.

As for not getting gifts, I think there's a subtle sort of voting through gifts that signal who believes who to be town or "valuable". As you pointed out, Mr. S seemed very towny Day 1, so he got a lot of gifts. If you don't really contribute, don't expect a lot of people to entrust you with their gifts, especially as people probably are figuring out what their gift does by now.

[safariguy5]

Oh, and I don't like how you're still trying to defend your logic for why you defended Mr. Squirrel. It sounds like you're trying to sweep it under the rug and are uncomfortable with the outcome. A simple "I defended the wrong guy my bad" would have sounded better, but you're coming off as scummy to me right now for your reaction.

unvote vote naxus

[kwanton]

I did not use my actions on the same person. I tracked safari and investigated comm9. The investigation was to try to confirm beyond a doubt what cop role was sane. I'm pretty certain that it's the library card but I just wanted to be safe.


Also this:

Since I have no idea if Im town or third party, and neither do any of you, Third party is as likely here as anything else we've seen.

5. Feel free to quote your role PM to help prove you are town, of course I haven't sent any to town but whatever...

You know that you're town if you didn't get a role PM...

[TA1LGUNN3R]

I was thte one that got the roleblovk this last night (rope) I used it on Commander. I wonder if the power was bus driven. I also got some bandages (doc protection) which I use don Safari. MAybe Safari was the one targeted?

So you roleblocked Commander, protected Saf, and nobody died? And he gives out a role that is confusing to the town?

-Tails

[pancakemix]

Kwans investigation was still being discussed in the post's above mine. I was just adding my opinion on the matter. It is not until the next page that it is completely established that that investigation is BS.
GA7's busdrive of Himself(Herself?IDK) seems like a risky move if I were in her shoes. There are a infinite number of accidents that could occur. I wouldn't call it skimming if the post above that one ask's if GA7 could've busdrived her/himself. Me voicing my opinion is scummy?

No it wasn't. Go look.

But why FOS him? If we're trying to figure out the validity of the investigation, throwing suspicion onto the guy who otherwise has no connection to the investigative role and doesn't even take any stock in it serves no purpose.

Ga7 is not worth discussing because whether or not he busdrove himself is irrelevant. I would say to comment primarily on that post WOULD indicate skimming because it means you could just open the thread and not have to look at anything else. And I didn't even really comment on this in my post. The fact that you're making a big deal out of it tells me you skimmed and are still skimming. Good job.

WAIT GUYS!!!!

What if one of these cop roles is from a MAFIA COP GIFTER!!!!!!!!! They could both be sane and / is messing around with us. O.O

Also can someone please send me a gift today. I feel unloved. D:

Give me one good reason why I should take this post seriously.

I brought up kwan as with the Ouja board alot of things were possible. The above post could've been a possibility, Kwan could've been lying, and a few other things could happen.

Also when is trying to figure out the mechanics of a game scummy?

Also this quote from skoffin in that wall of text a few pages back explains how my gut instincts help me out

I get a sense that Squirrel is leaning town, but he also seems to be a clever one that could be throwing me off.

I thought squirrel was town from the way his first day actions were. I was wrong obviously

And again, tell me why I should take a post from Fircoal that looks like that seriously. Maybe it's just because I know when he's being serious, but that does NOT look like a serious post. And again, Kwan has no reason to lie, especially when he backed of because it seemed untrustworthy. I LOL'd at the bold.

I said you weren't. Stop skimming.

This is basically saying "I don't have a good excuse, so I'm going to borrow this one". That doesn't work. I'd also like to point out that it was Skoff who hammered Squirrel.

Since I have no idea if Im town or third party, and neither do any of you, Third party is as likely here as anything else we've seen. First day investigation's are always taken with a bit of salt as they could be lying through their teeth. With safariguy pursuing squirell like he did, I assumed lyncher If the investigation came up to be false.

Wat

Except for that every piece of logic points to this being valid. Look:

1. Safari investigates Squirrel and gets a scum result
2. The other investigative tool sounds unreliable while Safari's sounds decently so
3. Squirrel confirms that Safari visited him. There were no other visitors.
4. Skoff confirms that Safari visited Squirrel
5. Squirrel's jailkeep of ga7 and ga7's death prove that Squirrel was not busdriven and was in fact Safari's target.

This is not a lyncher's case. This is a case I'd cast my vote on. You didn't, and I have a problem with that.

I didn't want to actually hammer squirrel as I was still undecided about him. My instinct that leaned him towards town turned out wrong.

I just showed you why you had no reason to be undecided. Either you skimmed all of that and are lying about skimming or you didn't want to lynch your partner.

I'm not convinced. My vote stands.

[kwanton]

Well yet again I can't ever find a flaw in PCM's logic lol. That's a pretty strong case. At first I was going to just attribute naxus's behavior to a misunderstanding of the game or skimming but now I'm leaning more towards agreeing with PCM.

unvote vote naxus

[aage]

3. Squirrel confirms that Safari visited him. There were no other visitors.

Ah, but after accusing someone of skimming (and afaik not much else) you've decided to believe everything the already-dead scumster has been trying to convince us is the truth?

And then Kwanton says it's a "strong case"? lmao.

vote pcm

As on Naxus, wooooh, he's a skimmyboy. But he's definitely not the only one... At least he's posting.

[pancakemix]

3. Squirrel confirms that Safari visited him. There were no other visitors.

Ah, but after accusing someone of skimming (and afaik not much else) you've decided to believe everything the already-dead scumster has been trying to convince us is the truth?

And then Kwanton says it's a "strong case"? lmao.

vote pcm

As on Naxus, wooooh, he's a skimmyboy. But he's definitely not the only one... At least he's posting.

Removing one of those points does not invalidate the amount of evidence against Squirrel. If you're going to try and argue against the evidence, try to disprove all of it.

I will say this on Squirrel, though: I'm actually surprised the extent to which he cooperated. To the point where he used the vote he stole from spiesr on himself. Either he was a Death Miller (which I highly doubt. And by "highly doubt" I mean "do not think at all".) or was trying really hard not to say "Ya got me!" the whole time.

As for naxus, it might have been solely on skimming, but the lyncher suggestion and the refusal to vote in the face of all the evidence put it beyond skimming and into scumville.

[spiesr]

Okay, pancakemix is putting together what appears to be a fairly decent case against naxus here. And, unsurprisingly, naxus is not doing a stellar job of defending himself. Now that could mean that he is scum and that he has made some mistakes, or that he is a clueless townie who seems to have difficulty keeping up with some aspects of the game. With a little meta-gaming, both of these scenarios seem like reasonable possibilities for naxus.

3. Squirrel confirms that Safari visited him. There were no other visitors.

Ah, but after accusing someone of skimming (and afaik not much else) you've decided to believe everything the already-dead scumster has been trying to convince us is the truth?

I don't see any real reason to strongly suspect that Mr. Squirrel was lying about any of the things that pancakemix mention. Especially since they ended up hurting Squirrel's possible defense.
Anyhow, when it gets down to it naxus seems utterly unable to effectively provide any counter to pancakemix's arguments, so the way I see it, there is a good chance he is right about something here. Vote naxus. By my count that puts him at 4 vote out of 6 needed for a lynch. One thing to keep in mind, is that we may not want to end this day too fast. We have only two pages so far this day, and it would be nice to have a little more to look back on later. Also, there are a few things I would still like to figure out. Like what caused kwanton's actions to fail, and why did that person do it? Also, kwanton makes a decent point here when he notes that Commander was blocked last night and there was no kill, and Commander is already looking a little shady.

I was thte one that got the roleblovk this last night (rope) I used it on Commander. I wonder if the power was bus driven. I also got some bandages (doc protection) which I use don Safari. MAybe Safari was the one targeted?

So you roleblocked Commander, protected Saf, and nobody died? And he gives out a role that is confusing to the town?

[/]

vote count

naxus; 4 votes: pancakemix, safariguy, kwanton, spiesr
Pancakemix; 1 vote: aage
11 alive, 6 to lynch

[safariguy5]

3. Squirrel confirms that Safari visited him. There were no other visitors.

Ah, but after accusing someone of skimming (and afaik not much else) you've decided to believe everything the already-dead scumster has been trying to convince us is the truth?

And then Kwanton says it's a "strong case"? lmao.

vote pcm

As on Naxus, wooooh, he's a skimmyboy. But he's definitely not the only one... At least he's posting.

Yes, but skoffin also confirmed that I visited Mr. Squirrel. So if Mr. Squirrel had denied that I had visited him, skoffin would have jumped on that and we would have lynched him faster. I don't see how you're accusing pcm while ignoring the fact that two people confirmed that I investigated Mr. Squirrel.

[kwanton]

Okay, pancakemix is putting together what appears to be a fairly decent case against naxus here. And, unsurprisingly, naxus is not doing a stellar job of defending himself. Now that could mean that he is scum and that he has made some mistakes, or that he is a clueless townie who seems to have difficulty keeping up with some aspects of the game. With a little meta-gaming, both of these scenarios seem like reasonable possibilities for naxus.

3. Squirrel confirms that Safari visited him. There were no other visitors.

Ah, but after accusing someone of skimming (and afaik not much else) you've decided to believe everything the already-dead scumster has been trying to convince us is the truth?

I don't see any real reason to strongly suspect that Mr. Squirrel was lying about any of the things that pancakemix mention. Especially since they ended up hurting Squirrel's possible defense.
Anyhow, when it gets down to it naxus seems utterly unable to effectively provide any counter to pancakemix's arguments, so the way I see it, there is a good chance he is right about something here. Vote naxus. By my count that puts him at 4 vote out of 6 needed for a lynch. One thing to keep in mind, is that we may not want to end this day too fast. We have only two pages so far this day, and it would be nice to have a little more to look back on later. Also, there are a few things I would still like to figure out. Like what caused kwanton's actions to fail, and why did that person do it? Also, kwanton makes a decent point here when he notes that Commander was blocked last night and there was no kill, and Commander is already looking a little shady.

I was thte one that got the roleblovk this last night (rope) I used it on Commander. I wonder if the power was bus driven. I also got some bandages (doc protection) which I use don Safari. MAybe Safari was the one targeted?

So you roleblocked Commander, protected Saf, and nobody died? And he gives out a role that is confusing to the town?

Uhhh pretty sure it was tail who said that not me. it's tail that you quoted lol. But regardless that is an interesting point.

So if fircoal is telling the truth, then I was not roleblocked last night. (And I have no reason to suspect fircoal is lying.) Also, I doubt it was a busdriver since both my actions failed. I used them on two different people. A bus driver plus a commuter is possible but pretty unlikely that both my investigations were avoided by chance. The most likely scenario is that I was jailkept last night unless anyone else has any other roles that could affect my powers last night. This makes me think that maybe I was the one targeted last night for the mafia kill. I received a (seemingly) powerful town role yesterday with the fake investigation. Maybe this made me a target? I dunno. This may just be an Occam's Razor argument but that's the simplest scenario I can think of for why I got roleblocked and why there was no kill last night.

[kwanton]

ABWOP:

Sorry again but jailekeeper is one of the roles that I'm a little rusty on. It both stops actions and protects right? That's what google is telling me.

[safariguy5]

ABWOP:

Sorry again but jailekeeper is one of the roles that I'm a little rusty on. It both stops actions and protects right? That's what google is telling me.

Yeah, that's what jailkeeper does. Here's another explanation that I think works Occam's Razor better. I was the one responsible for the death of Mr. Squirrel yesterday. Fircoal used his doctor ability on me, and I was the mafia target. That's why I survived. Also explains how I am voteless today as that box of chocolates was probably a mafia gift.

[naxus]

Well hell. My defense post wasn't as good as I thought. And I worked so hard on it too

I'm town and I think I'm the tracker gift giver as I gave that to skoffin and the person I sent my gift to for yesterday hasn't spoken up if they got it.

Lynch me if you want but when I die Pancake,Safari, and Kwanton should be looked into as there the ring leaders on me right now.