[OFFICIAL] Stack the Deck mafia (4/12)Endgame: MAFIA WIN

[Endgame422]

IB your thoughts here?
Who are the 2 remaining scum?

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

IB your thoughts here?
Who are the 2 remaining scum?

Do you remember EoTW mafia? Do you know why I let you live with the capability to kill me in the night? It was because you were easy to read and I knew that you were going to shoot town for me. IB needs to be very careful how much and what he tells mafia. He is confirmed town so doesnt need to give reads so we can ascertain his alignment. I'd appreciate help with lynching scum, but I wouldnt demand it.

Just be careful how much you ask for from IB. I'd like him to remain open with his reads and not get bogged down with day lynches.

[bosaardbeitje]

@ Wing So basically you are asking questions to a player who is dead and you are clearly not reading this game, your opinion of Maras is completely opposite compared to yesterday and you think that TWR, Anam and I are a scum trio who decided to call each other Town all day long. Brilliant! That's another read on my list that changes.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

@ Wing So basically you are asking questions to a player who is dead and you are clearly not reading this game, your opinion of Maras is completely opposite compared to yesterday and you think that TWR, Anam and I are a scum trio who decided to call each other Town all day long. Brilliant! That's another read on my list that changes.

Ah good point, that removes the outlier in my analysis. I read D1 with the knowledge that White Rose is mafia. N1 deaths werent in my assessment.

[bosaardbeitje]

What, what, WHAT? Weren't you the one pointing out that Streaker made a mistake in his Night Scene and all of a sudden you are suffering from amnesia? That doesn't add up.

vote WingCmdr Ginkapo

[Endgame422]

First off your thinking of GoT,the only "townie" i killed was mafia traitor storr,who was handing you free powers every day. Its not a very strong point unless your scum in this one also wing,as different players reason out what to do as scum differently.
Secondly im not expecting him to lead a case or even give us all of his reads but his opinion is as valuable as his vig ability so id like to hear it still.
Your right that he shouldnt lay it all out there but i want to know who he thinks should be lynched today.
Fpd by boss

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Ah of course it was Got Tonkaed. He soft claimed vig and then so gloriously set about killing all but me. Was such a pity that he refused to outright claim it.

[Iron Butterfly]

As mentioned in my earlier post, I'm still not convinced by dakky.

Vote dakky21, but as things stand, I would be equally fine with a TWR lynch.

Heres my read

Yesterday TWR was on the hot seat with two votes but so was Dakky. Wing votes and then Mitch pulls off Dakky and goes to TWR which brings the vote count to 4 for TWR and one for Dakky.

Before a lynch you need a claim, seems stupid to put your vote on Dakky, who only has one vote instead of voting TWR, who will be forced to claim with the 5th vote.

For some one equally fine with a TWR lynch voting Dakky makes no sense.

Now Ani has been making some pithy and long posts. He has had me convinced with some of them. But this move screamed mafia.

[Iron Butterfly]

vote animainiacks

[dakky21]

I'm going to follow only confirmed town player. Though, still not sure about the third scum, could be mitch or boss.

unvote
vote Animaniacks

[Streaker]

Vote Count

Endgame422 (1): dakky21
Anamainiacks (3): endgame422, Iron Butterfly, dakky21 (L-2)
Wingcmdr Ginkapo (1): bosaardbeitje

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Deadline November 23rd, 03.00 CC Time.

[rizky_biznezz]

I don't have time to go thru it all now... Anam has been a bit suss to me from the start and it didn't help that he never voted the guy who flipped scum.. Usually not wanting to hammer is a good thing but in this case it seems like he was trying to drag it out and hoping someone would put out a new case or unvote, when he asked if we had anything to discuss..

Wing I have been unsure about the whole game but with the recent posts I need to take another look..

@bos thanks for ur responses I had a quick read I will go thru it later when I get time.. U were another that I had no idea about and still don't as I can't even say for sure u were wrong about dakky..

[rizky_biznezz]

Sorry quick question with IBs confirmed role now there is a good chance that he will be nightkilled so wouldn't we want as much info out of him as possible?

[bosaardbeitje]

Guys, I can't believe I am saying this but YOU'RE WRONG. Wing slipped up BIG TIME. Yesterday's post had scum written all over it, he didn't even try to explain it properly, just ignored it and disappeared, hoping that his mistake would go unnoticed and apparently it's working as well!!! My radar went off immediately because normally Wing is not afraid of a little confrontation and I believe he would have defended himself if he was Town.

I didn't quite understand why Wing mentioned Tim and kept mentioning EoTW and I got even more suspicious when End said it was another game. I totally understand what it means now: End of Tim Woodbury. This is unrecruited traitor Wing trying to send a message to his mafia friend End to let him know who should be the next victim. Unfortunately for Wing, he was so busy sending secret messages and framing people that he forgot that Tim is already dead!!! He clearly doesn't care about this game and the people in it. I also looked at his other posts and there is so much evidence in them that I can't believe we didn't see this earlier.

He already said it all with his first post:

I'm the Ace of Spades

An extra card or two meaning an extra goon or two:

Ace of spades eh wing?
That sounds like you might have an extra card or two up your sleeve..
Vote Wing

Always

Pretending to care:

I know that Endgame is voting White Rose, so I suspect the vote count is incorrect.

Pretending to care again:

Streaker, what happens if we reach the deadline without a lynch?

Deadline is getting quite close.

I basically have no other choice but to bus my partner now:

On my point on daytalk, I was looking for people who were posting less than expected norm (other people's accounts on rose's lack of posts is what got rose on that list), and as for rizky being around, most of those posts contribute little more than showing that he is still present.

Ah I missed this the first time you raised it. Thats a very good argument. I dont trust you, but that is a good point.

Yippie, my partner fakeclaimed so I can now unvote and hope that others follow:

Unvote.

Its not worth this risk at this point.

 

I am pretty 'stumped' = unrecruited traitor. And then he goes on suggesting that Ptlowe is the one sending messages, because THAT'S WHAT HE IS DOING, only mafia would interpret Ptlowe's remark that way.

I dont see the case on Dakky being that big. I also dont particularly feel that either side of Boss/IB being mafia. I'm pretty stumped, maybe its because I give newer players a lot of benefit of the doubt, I dont know. Not enough data points.

Over thought, 1 of the mafia players may not be known to the others, so were possibly looking for a pair of players and an independent defender of this pair, rather than a normal trio. With this thought, the following post takes on a whole new meaning.

vote bos because shes not in my other games

That makes little sense. Boss can be a unique read to this game rather than muddying the waters by having to seperate out her play in more than one game.

This. Unlike others I feel no need to be in 3 games at the same time

but but but, your my new buddy

Am I reading too much into that?

Crap, I don't have any other option but to vote for my partner again:

Rizky - PTlowe is counter claiming The White Rose. ONE of them is mafia.

So vote either Ptlowe or White Rose. If they flip town, we lynch the other tomorrow. Its nice when mafia becomes so simple.

Vote White Rose

Maybe someone else is going to save my partner when I say this and trust me because I am being honest:

Streaker is the mod of this game... are you sure you've read the correct pm? I'll be honest I'll probably still vote for you.

At the beginning of the game all town aligned players receive a "Vanilla Town" role. Once mafia has selected their abilities all town roles go out. This prevents claims of "received roles before/after mafia modifications".

Sorry, can't help you anymore buddy:

not right sure tbh. can't quite understand why scum would want to claim my role....sure it may get me lynched today, but then when i flip tracker pt has nowhere to run...do they fear tracker that much?

Not really. Thats why I'm voting you, if mafia, PT had no reason to counterclaim.

WE HAVE BEEN PLAYED by Wing and End this whole game!!! You are right Wing, it IS nice when mafia becomes so simple

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Cute.

EoTW is eye of the world.

[bosaardbeitje]

Thanks for the compliment, I am not only cute, I am also right.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Thanks for the compliment, I am not only cute, I am also right.

Do you agree that you went looking for a case against me, rather than reviewing the information avaliable to identify mafia?

[Iron Butterfly]

Bos why no comment on my read on Ani??

[Endgame422]

End of Tim Woodbury. https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=610&t=212836
There are several MAJOR holes in your theory boss.
1. If wing is unrecruited mafia traitor and i am regular mafia,i would not know he is the traitor. Therfore we couldnt be exchanging "secret coded messages"
2. Unrecruited traitor is NOT privy to daychat so wing cant be "too busy with daychat"
3. Do you really think anyone is dumb enough to make the mistake of pushing a dead player as the mafia mislynch?
Wing may be scum but your case on him does not hold water.
Ana claim please your at L-2

[bosaardbeitje]

@ Wing Why would I be looking for a case against YOU? I am looking at everyone and have ZERO reasons to jump on your case all of sudden. I did review all the information and that's exactly how I pinned you down as scum.

@ IB Anam is screaming Town to me. Yes, Anam voted Dakky but so did I. I respect that Anam made up his own mind instead of jumping on the TWR wagon where it is easy to hide. I understand his logic behind the vote and the reluctance to vote TWR, because he doesn't know TWR that well. If you think I am trying to deflect attention from Anam, I am not. If Wing flips Town it's a no brainer to kill Anam and me next, since Wing is clearly trying to frame us. Either you kill one of us during the night and lynch the other one D3. Or Town lynches us D3 and D4, should you die.

@ End
1 No, but he would know that you are the goon
2 I didn't say that
3 Apparently
I understand that you have to defend him though.

Multiple people have said that Wing has been acting weird or that he has been holding back or that he was trying to see what sticks. Please look at the points I made and go and read D1 again. I am really really convinced about this.

[Endgame422]

1.In order for secret messages to work wing and i would have to have worked out this code behind the scenes somewhere.
Please explain how we did this.
2. I thought you had said too busy with daychat,you said too busy with secret messages. I thought you meant daychat but i realize that you probably meant EoTW.
3. Cant argue against "apparently"
I dont have to defend him,in your scenario i wouldnt even know wing is scum for sure. Why would goon defend someone who people think might be traitor?
Inb4 ana jumps on wing wagon.

[anamainiacks]

Have some time so thought I'd pop in to quickly respond.

First off, since I'm L-2, I'll claim - I'm a Vanilla Townie.

Now I'll quickly go through the accusations currently brought against me:

--------

Ok so anas post there regarding context and having no control over what rose said are fair points but im still unconvinced that we have a stronger case then that and my vote stays for the moment

In other words, "that was a great defence which made sense, but I'm lazy to make any more cases"?

--------

I did have the opportunity to hammer TWR - after PT counterclaimed, and before Streaker posted his modnote of his mistake. But I didn't hammer, because we had lots of time before the deadline, and I wanted us to discuss as much as we needed.

Consider the context: it was practically a given at that point that TWR was going to be lynched. Any time there's a counterclaim for a power role, the initial suspect gets lynched. The only situation in which there would've been any reason to doubt TWR's lynch was if there was an error and possibly 2 trackers. But we didn't know that was the case at that point (and it's plain folly to hope for mod errors). So the smart thing for scum to do at that point would've been to get on the wagon and hope to get some town cred. There'd be no sense in holding off from a vote, hoping in vain that the lynch wouldn't happen, and have suspicion thrown on you for not getting on the wagon.

Ony mafia overthink their own moves this much. What is this? Justifying yourself with WIFOM?

I don't overthink my moves when I make them; I act based on what I feel is in the best interest of town. But now my lack of a vote on TWR is being called to question, and I'm explaining it with my motivations for it, and showing how it's illogical for mafia to make that move. I'm analysing the situation WITH hindsight bias, which I wouldn't have been able to do as scum at that point. This is how you make a proper defence. How else would you suggest someone defends himself?

--------

I get a feeling off a TWR, Boss, AnaManiac group. Dakky was continuing to repost versions of his case on TWR all day, and the below was in response to that.

@ Dakky, you are calling out TWR for a lack of substance during the first days of the game. I fail to see how that is different from your own play. Your posts don't include much new information either. You voted TWR at the beginning of the game, then you come back 4 days later and simply stick with your vote. You don't address any other things that have been going on. To me that makes you either scummy or uninterested. It also surprises me that it took a prod from Streaker to get you back in here, since I know how often you are online. Combining that with the speculation from Maras about day chat, I think that could mean you were busy making sneaky plans.

Ptlowe, TWR and Anam (I missed that earlier) have also been quiet for a while. Out of those Anam looks most Town to me because of the last post with lots of content. Ptlowe and TWR haven't convinced me of their innocence so far. And now we seem to have lost IB...

@ anam, excellent post, very helpful and well thought out, for me i now read you as my most certain townie.

Wtf was this ^

AnaManiacs:

As mentioned in my earlier post, I'm still not convinced by dakky.

Vote dakky21, but as things stand, I would be equally fine with a TWR lynch.

Would that be this post, viewtopic.php?f=213&t=215356&start=150#p4747573
or this one? viewtopic.php?f=213&t=215356&start=100#p4747114

Neither really mentions Dakky...

So my summary is. Tim explain what on earth goes on in your head please?
My reads are Boss and AnaManiac. I'm also letting go of my tunnel on Mars, he seems alright.

1. If TWR, bosaa and I are truly a group of scum, it's blazingly stupid for us to REPEATEDLY call our 'connection' to light. It's plain stupid strategy for scum, no matter how new a player one is.
2. I addressed that post of TWR's already. I can't control what others are saying, and I suspect TWR was trying to drag down a townie (me) with him if he got lynched by making a showy display of "buddying" with me. For all I know, bosaa is trying to do the same.
3. I was referring to the former post, in which I said:

bosaa raised up some great points about dakky not commenting much about anything other than targeting TWR. I'm also not entirely convinced about his explanation about being away, since he managed to get in 5 posts during joke vote phase when the game started. He could possibly be keeping his vote on TWR since that's one of the other cases with the most traction and votes at the moment - I think there's currently 2 each on TWR and dakky?

That's 1 paragraph on dakky, and you're saying I don't really mention him? And why didn't you bring it up yesterday if you were confused as to the reasons on my vote?
4. "My reads are Boss and AnaManiac. I'm also letting go of my tunnel on Mars, he seems alright." So you admit that you were tunneling. I do hope you're not tunneling on me instead.

--------

As mentioned in my earlier post, I'm still not convinced by dakky.

Vote dakky21, but as things stand, I would be equally fine with a TWR lynch.

Heres my read

Yesterday TWR was on the hot seat with two votes but so was Dakky. Wing votes and then Mitch pulls off Dakky and goes to TWR which brings the vote count to 4 for TWR and one for Dakky.

Before a lynch you need a claim, seems stupid to put your vote on Dakky, who only has one vote instead of voting TWR, who will be forced to claim with the 5th vote.

For some one equally fine with a TWR lynch voting Dakky makes no sense.

Now Ani has been making some pithy and long posts. He has had me convinced with some of them. But this move screamed mafia.

I felt that equal pressure should've been on them, which is why I voted dakky at that point. I was surprised (and honestly am still very surprised) that nobody thought dakky's actions were suspicious.

He was inactive, and all he did other than joke voting was to tunnel TWR, without addressing any of the questions raised about him. In fact, the only reason why we're not more suspicious of him is because he was one of the first 2 on the wagon. For all we know, TWR and dakky are scum buddies that found themselves on the radar for the first lynch, and dakky decided to get town cred and push for TWR's lynch. After all, TWR never voted for dakky even though it would've been the obvious choice to get the lynch off himself.

--------

I'm going to follow only confirmed town player. Though, still not sure about the third scum, could be mitch or boss.

unvote
vote Animaniacks

What kind of reason is that??? IB is town, meaning he knows only as much as the rest of the town!

--------

I don't have time to go thru it all now... Anam has been a bit suss to me from the start and it didn't help that he never voted the guy who flipped scum.. Usually not wanting to hammer is a good thing but in this case it seems like he was trying to drag it out and hoping someone would put out a new case or unvote, when he asked if we had anything to discuss..

Like I've already explained, the lynch on TWR was certain at that point. I don't think there's any instance where 2 players claimed the same role, and the original suspect wasn't lynched. It'd be stupid for scum to hope for unvotes or a new case.

[bosaardbeitje]

Yesterday you said this:

First off your thinking of GoT,the only "townie" i killed was mafia traitor storr,who was handing you free powers every day. Its not a very strong point unless your scum in this one also wing,as different players reason out what to do as scum differently.
Secondly im not expecting him to lead a case or even give us all of his reads but his opinion is as valuable as his vig ability so id like to hear it still.
Your right that he shouldnt lay it all out there but i want to know who he thinks should be lynched today.
Fpd by boss

So, I think you realise very well that Wing is the traitor. You even called him scum. Why not vote for him then? Besides his interaction with you, there is also his interaction with TWR, what do you think about that?

Also, I want to hear from others.

[dakky21]

Have some time so thought I'd pop in to quickly respond.

First off, since I'm L-2, I'll claim - I'm a Vanilla Townie.

Now I'll quickly go through the accusations currently brought against me:

He was inactive, and all he did other than joke voting was to tunnel TWR, without addressing any of the questions raised about him. In fact, the only reason why we're not more suspicious of him is because he was one of the first 2 on the wagon. For all we know, TWR and dakky are scum buddies that found themselves on the radar for the first lynch, and dakky decided to get town cred and push for TWR's lynch. After all, TWR never voted for dakky even though it would've been the obvious choice to get the lynch off himself.

Mate, I voted TWR day one because he joke voted for mod, who is not playing and not a valid player... and that was first sign of scumness.. I just kept my vote on him as the more he speaked ... the more it was scum.

You're doing the same... Sorry mate, but you're sounding scum ... maybe Wing is scum instead of you, but we won't know until you get lynched... I will switch my vote to Wing if IB decides to switch, but until then you're my no.1 suspect.

[Endgame422]

How does that show anything?
I mention traitor therefore i know wing is the traitor?
And i didnt call wing scum,
I said his point was weak unless he is scum as different players reason differently as scum.
Fpd by dakky