Mass Effect 1 - Thorian (Cult) Wins!

[dakky21]

Okay, now I'm in trouble just for watching?

<cut>

If not, what am I missing?

You're missing the point of the mafia game. Watching it isn't same as playing it.
Now I'll provide you a link to a wiki again...
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Game_of_Mafia

Read that then come back and then stop using the newbie card.

[Thorthoth]

Okay, now I'm in trouble just for watching?

<cut>

If not, what am I missing?

You're missing the point of the mafia game. Watching it isn't same as playing it.
Now I'll provide you a link to a wiki again...
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Game_of_Mafia

Read that then come back and then stop using the newbie card.

I get that. This is a role-playing game and we are all supposed to argue are cases like trial lawyers...
but I also figure we all know to be sophisticated enough to know that most of these posts are bs without factual content.
So yes, everybody is trying to deflect blame and incriminate others but I'm sure we would all like to figure out what the real evidence is too.
For example when somebody says they know somebody else's role or knows that they were put in jail, or whatever. That can all be bluffing, right?
Obviously a lot of people get falsely lynched in these games, so maybe we shold have a lynching to get the ball-rolling... (Gosh, what a terrible thing to say).

[iAmCaffeine]

You mean you're not aware of this, Pika?

Can you find this in context for me? Just a page number will do. I'm pretty sure I said it alongside other similar posts.

[Which actually creates contrast with a later post he made...

I didn't contradict myself. I know nothing about mass effect and I have no concrete evidence of 3rd parties existing apart from other people's lore knowledge and my own common sense / general game knowledge.

[dakky21]

Thor that is mostly correct but the thing is - You didn't made a case around anyone, you are just "watching" what other say and you will probably vote what majority votes... and that's really scummy... so either say your own thoughts or get lynched. I'll be switching my vote to you if you don't stop that newbie card.

[iAmCaffeine]

It's not all that different to Mitch.

[Thorthoth]

Thor that is mostly correct but the thing is - You didn't made a case around anyone, you are just "watching" what other say and you will probably vote what majority votes... and that's really scummy... so either say your own thoughts or get lynched. I'll be switching my vote to you if you don't stop that newbie card.

Well in that case... vote dakky, he's a newbie lyncher.

[dakky21]

It's not all that different to Mitch.

you didn't play 100000 games with mitch so you don't have meta... I think he is playing his game exactly as before by saying what other said, and I believe he does that when he is closer to town than to scum. Everything is meta of course... maybe he is trying to cheat us all but... i don't know if he is capable of it... and then again it's all meta.

I want to hear other people... we're active and a lot of them are not, so how about some of the others say something?

[Ragian]

@Caff, I asked for you to give your thoughts on other people now that your head is somewhat on the chopping block. You have said that you think that someone and I are town, but whom do you think is scum? Those thoughts are more important. Especially, since you ask for reads from me.

I would like the following to participate more: chu, skoffin (and as of D2 also Pika, Samlen, and perhaps Masket), but when the deadline is ten days away, I'd like pokes and eventually replacements before executing someone whose role we don't know. That said, resolving deadbeats must be dealt with at a decent time before the deadline. I'll leave to our beautiful mod for now.

There are two things that have caught my eyes today: One is obviously the Benga-Caff business. While the case on Caff is fluff apart from the jailing, jailing is not a bad place to start with absolutely nothing else put on the table in terms of nighttime information. I agree with dakky that it's far more likely that Benga prevented Caff from killing rather than being killed. And as said a few times now, I'd like to hear whom Caff would point to in his scumhunt. Aiming at a deadbeat is sort of a cop-out.

The second bit is Thor. While I think it's absolutely understandable that he's confused, one needs to get one's hands dirty. The reaction to dakky's push borders on OMGUS (click link). What we need is to know where people stand on various issues, so we're able to piece together the puzzle eventually. Refraining from giving your thoughts on e.g. the Benga-Caff issue prevents us from reading you. This helps scum more than it helps town, so lay your cards on the table. You come off as someone who has something to hide.

So, in terms of placing my vote, I'm leaning Caff or Thor if I were to vote now. There's no rush, however, and I'm anxious to hear some scum reads from Caff and to see Thor play.

[Samlen]

Stuff came up so sorry for little activity. Poking inactives is good but voting them feels like an easy attempt to not get caff lynched. Just feels off imo. Will try more comprehensive post later when I can reread thoroughly.

[Pikanchion]

I want to hear from both of the players who haven't posted at all this in-game day before I post anything else substantial, allowing them to lurk until a bandwagon has already begun to form is letting them off far too easily, and means we will be going into the third day with virtually no reads on either of them. It's even plausible that there was no night kill because one of them failed to submit a night action.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I have poked fircoal again for a response and skoffin as well.

[madmitch]

I have poked fircoal again for a response and skoffin as well.

I don't know about fircoat but didn't skoffin post in the other game she was unwell?

[DirtyDishSoap]

She has said something to me not too long ago, regardless, i have pmed her to see if she'll be active this week. Fircoal is also busy, and same poke reasoning.

If both decide to drop, ill extend the deadline.

[madmitch]

Iam sorry Caff , I know I am just assuming you are scum or 3rd party because of you being jailed and no one was killed, Is it really that wild to think that ? Why would Benga lie ? he just put a big target on his back by admitting he can jail someone, Unless the people that are not posting are scum and did not make any night action you are still the best canadate, Tell me honestly if this happened to someone else you wouldn't think the same thing.

[Thorthoth]

OMGUS? wow... See, this is all new stuff to me.

I see your argument about IAC though I don't know all the possible interpretations.

As for me,I haven't done anything but ask questions... Surely I'm a just stating the questions that most players are asking themselves, that is, unless they already know...

Is this some real world bleed from that Anti-Tea hate campaign being waged in the forums?

(sigh) I'm sure random innocent players get lynched all the time in mafia game... I was just hoping it wouldn't be me.

[dakky21]

So Thor, who do you find scummy at this point and why? Write your thoughts.

[iAmCaffeine]

@Caff, I asked for you to give your thoughts on other people now that your head is somewhat on the chopping block. You have said that you think that someone and I are town, but whom do you think is scum? Those thoughts are more important. Especially, since you ask for reads from me.

If you're reading my posts then you should know who I suspect. I voted Fircoal and I think dakky is likely third party. I'm honestly happy voting either. Partly because I can guarantee it's better for town that I'm not lynched, whereas it's less likely to have a detrimental impact on town if either of them are lynched. Moreover, it's likely to be good for town.

Like I said, if you were reading as intently as you pretend, perhaps you would've noticed that.

Stuff came up so sorry for little activity. Poking inactives is good but voting them feels like an easy attempt to not get caff lynched. Just feels off imo. Will try more comprehensive post later when I can reread thoroughly.

A handful of votes on inactives is nothing to get in a fuss about - we're not remotely close to a lynch. Fircoal has been reminded several times and I believe was limited in posting on D1, so should therefore be even keener to participate on D2. I've also given good explanations in my defence and there is no strong logic coming from the people voting me.

Sure, I was apparently jailed and there was no night kill. There are three potential explanations for this:

• I'm mafia and was leading the kill and got roleblocked
• I'm a town Power Role, was jailed and also the mafia target so therefore saved
• Mafia targeted whoever they decided, but was role blocked by a 3rd party and I was jailed

I've only just given the final possibility some consideration, but given dakky's (3rd party) weak arguments and strong pushes to lynch, combined with benga's (town) hard-headed behaviour, it seems entirely plausible. What are everyone else's thoughts on this?

Iam sorry Caff , I know I am just assuming you are scum or 3rd party because of you being jailed and no one was killed, Is it really that wild to think that ? Why would Benga lie ? he just put a big target on his back by admitting he can jail someone, Unless the people that are not posting are scum and did not make any night action you are still the best canadate, Tell me honestly if this happened to someone else you wouldn't think the same thing.

I'm pretty sure this has been discussed several times over the last few pages..

[dakky21]

Sure, I was apparently jailed and there was no night kill. There are three potential explanations for this:

• I'm mafia and was leading the kill and got roleblocked
• I'm a town Power Role, was jailed and also the mafia target so therefore saved
• Mafia targeted whoever they decided, but was role blocked by a 3rd party and I was jailed

When you put it this way, it's even worse. So we have 1/3 chance that you are mafia. I don't see a better candidate at this point, really.

[Thorthoth]

I just tried to review this entire thread in a methodical way... I did not succeed. However, I did find a few interesting quotes...

So not posting is bad because... why?

Scum often tries to not get noticed by not posting... you can't get caught making a slip in your post if you don't post, right? Often the more someone posts, the more you can make a case about them, right or wrong. While if someone doesn't post there isn't much to base a case on. So to discourage scum being inactive (and because it does often catch scum), it's common to vote barely active players for "scummarining"

If not posting is poor sportsmanship as well as possibly being scummy, maybe we should lynch a non-poster.
Note, I'm feeling more vehement about this because every time I do post about anything at allI seem to get myself in trouble.
If we want to encourage participation, then let's not reward these non-participators. If they never get lynched I'm going to walk away from this with a firm conviction that lurking is the way to go.
Roght now, voting for a non-poster means voting for Fircoal. Is that right?

Continuing on, I'm now looking more closely at the Day 2 posts to see who knows what. The first thing that catches my eye is this.

So I'd say it's fairly safe to assume the Thorian is a Third Party with cult mechanics at this point, presumably the only one that's active right now (save for presumably a convertee). The lack of night kill is certainly interesting also, Saren's team surely has a night kill, so it seems this was prevented somehow. On the off-chance that this kill was prevented via roleblock rather than a doctor or bulletproof (or similar) role I would say the probable cult is currently the greater threat of the two, although there's not much for me to go on to try and discover who either are at this point.

Any leads?

How the heck does Pika come to this conclusion about the Thorian? I'd like him to explain his evidence and reasoning better.

BTW, This is slightly embarassing, but I will admit that many posts ago when I asked what a Thorian was, it was because I thought it was just another misspelled nickname for me (not 'ME', me) .

More questions:
Another thing from Day 2 is that Benga claims that IAC was jailed. Is that definitely known or could that be a bluff?
If a player is jailed he can't do anything but neither can he be killed, Is that right?
Does a scum have to kill every night, or would/could he choose not to for some reason?

Samlen also brings up some interesting points. Is there more than one scum that kills? If so, then blocking or jailing one player wouldn't prove anything...

@thor You have to weigh the weight of your role versus the weight of your information when revealing your action. For example: If the cop found a town-sided player night one, they would likely not want to reveal(yet) since the risk of them dying to scum is not worth clearing one player. On that note, I didn't learn anything useful last night. I think it's more likely that the scum kill was prevented by a roleblocker or the jailing of caff since doc save requires two actions to hit same target instead of just one. We can debate about the merits about jailing caff again, but mafia can usually choose who carries out the nightkill, making it unlikely that jailing him (if he's mafia) will do anything. It'll be a bit harder to figure out who to lynch considering no death but caff being jailed or a different person being roleblocked are our best bets (barring any wonky roles).

I would like to have an overwhelming reason for voting for somebody, but I actually do not ... but I will try to learn more.

1. Pikanchion - interesting claims made.
2. Ragian
3. Strike Wolf
4. Madmitch
5. Dakky
6. Skittles
7. Fircoal - no posts.
8. Samlen - interesting claims made.
9. Minister Masket
10. Benga - interesting claims made.
11. Hotshot
12. Thortoth
13. DoomYoshi
14. Lord Moldybutt
15. iAmCaffeine - interesting claims made.
16. Tailgunner
17. Skoffin

[dakky21]

BTW... YOU say you were jailed in all three possible scenarios because you obviously know that your action failed. That means you had an action.

Sure, I was apparently jailed and there was no night kill. There are three potential explanations for this:

• Mafia targeted whoever they decided, but was role blocked by a 3rd party and I was jailed

Which can still mean you were jailed AND you are scum, but mafia got role blocked by a 3rd party.

[iAmCaffeine]

Sure, I was apparently jailed and there was no night kill. There are three potential explanations for this:

• I'm mafia and was leading the kill and got roleblocked
• I'm a town Power Role, was jailed and also the mafia target so therefore saved
• Mafia targeted whoever they decided, but was role blocked by a 3rd party and I was jailed

When you put it this way, it's even worse. So we have 1/3 chance that you are mafia. I don't see a better candidate at this point, really.

You mean 1/3 is worse than the situation you were working on previously which is 1/2? I think you should stop posting. I'm not sure how you're not the primary target for the lynch today.

Unvote Fircoal. Vote dakky21. I hope unvote is the same colour, not sure.

BTW... YOU say you were jailed in all three possible scenarios because you obviously know that your action failed. That means you had an action.

Sure, I was apparently jailed and there was no night kill. There are three potential explanations for this:

• Mafia targeted whoever they decided, but was role blocked by a 3rd party and I was jailed

Which can still mean you were jailed AND you are scum, but mafia got role blocked by a 3rd party.

I say I was jailed for two reasons:

• As I've already stated if you cared to fucking read I'm a town power role and as such had a night action. I got nothing from my action.
• I find it incredibly unlikely someone is going to fake claim a jailer on D2 of the game

[Pikanchion]

So I'd say it's fairly safe to assume the Thorian is a Third Party with cult mechanics at this point, presumably the only one that's active right now (save for presumably a convertee). The lack of night kill is certainly interesting also, Saren's team surely has a night kill, so it seems this was prevented somehow. On the off-chance that this kill was prevented via roleblock rather than a doctor or bulletproof (or similar) role I would say the probable cult is currently the greater threat of the two, although there's not much for me to go on to try and discover who either are at this point.

Any leads?

How the heck does Pika come to this conclusion about the Thorian? I'd like him to explain his evidence and reasoning better.

What's a Thorian?

Too lazy to Google it a bit?

From Mass Effect wiki on wikia...

The Thorian, also called Species 37, is an ancient sentient plant at least fifty thousand years old - its ability to hibernate for thousands of years makes its real age impossible to guess. The Thorian is a unique creature with mind-controlling and telepathic abilities, and a massive sensory network. It releases spores into the air that allow the Thorian to control those who inhale them, using pain to control their behaviour. These 'thralls' then tend to the Thorian and obey its will.

Shepards team has pursued Saren and the Geth across the galaxy, visiting several planets along the way. Fighting off the Geth and taking any leads to unravel what Saren is planning. After launching a probe on ehm...Uranus, Shepard pursues a lead of Geth activity to the planet Feros, where several Prothean relics lie. What will Shepard find? Or is it perhaps an ambush?

...the Thorian is essentially "a weave of tendrils" that covers much of the surface of Feros...
-
...the Thorian issues mental commands to its thralls; if they resist, the thralls suffer intense pain until they are conditioned against any thoughts of rebellion. Though the initial conditioning is painful, the Thorian doesn't force the thralls to perform dangerous tasks or hurt themselves...permitted to 'pantomime' a normal existence until the Thorian needed them...

The Cult is a third-party group that seeks to recruit players into itself. The recruitment is done by a Cult Leader who is typically the only member of the Cult at the beginning of the game. At Night, it can recruit players into the Cult; these players henceforth lose their previous role identities and become Cultists. The Cult wins when it comprises half of the player list, at which time it controls the lynch and trivializes the rest of the game.
-
Cults have been criticized for being very hard to balance. For example, the Town could lynch Cultists each Day but still lose because someone else becomes recruited to take their spot. Cults could also overpower the town if they recruit all of the Town's power roles.

QED

[Thorthoth]

So I'd say it's fairly safe to assume the Thorian is a Third Party with cult mechanics at this point, presumably the only one that's active right now (save for presumably a convertee). The lack of night kill is certainly interesting also, Saren's team surely has a night kill, so it seems this was prevented somehow. On the off-chance that this kill was prevented via roleblock rather than a doctor or bulletproof (or similar) role I would say the probable cult is currently the greater threat of the two, although there's not much for me to go on to try and discover who either are at this point.

Any leads?

How the heck does Pika come to this conclusion about the Thorian? I'd like him to explain his evidence and reasoning better.

What's a Thorian?

Too lazy to Google it a bit?

From Mass Effect wiki on wikia...

The Thorian, also called Species 37, is an ancient sentient plant at least fifty thousand years old - its ability to hibernate for thousands of years makes its real age impossible to guess. The Thorian is a unique creature with mind-controlling and telepathic abilities, and a massive sensory network. It releases spores into the air that allow the Thorian to control those who inhale them, using pain to control their behaviour. These 'thralls' then tend to the Thorian and obey its will.

Shepards team has pursued Saren and the Geth across the galaxy, visiting several planets along the way. Fighting off the Geth and taking any leads to unravel what Saren is planning. After launching a probe on ehm...Uranus, Shepard pursues a lead of Geth activity to the planet Feros, where several Prothean relics lie. What will Shepard find? Or is it perhaps an ambush?

...the Thorian is essentially "a weave of tendrils" that covers much of the surface of Feros...
-
...the Thorian issues mental commands to its thralls; if they resist, the thralls suffer intense pain until they are conditioned against any thoughts of rebellion. Though the initial conditioning is painful, the Thorian doesn't force the thralls to perform dangerous tasks or hurt themselves...permitted to 'pantomime' a normal existence until the Thorian needed them...

The Cult is a third-party group that seeks to recruit players into itself. The recruitment is done by a Cult Leader who is typically the only member of the Cult at the beginning of the game. At Night, it can recruit players into the Cult; these players henceforth lose their previous role identities and become Cultists. The Cult wins when it comprises half of the player list, at which time it controls the lynch and trivializes the rest of the game.
-
Cults have been criticized for being very hard to balance. For example, the Town could lynch Cultists each Day but still lose because someone else becomes recruited to take their spot. Cults could also overpower the town if they recruit all of the Town's power roles.

QED

Okay, but in that case you wouldn't know, unless you were in the cult, and if you were in the cult you wouldn't talk about it... though I suppose it could be a slip, or an attempt to act contrary to expectations... or perhaps one's free will fighting against the brainwashing.... (sigh) This whole thing is like being trapped in Plato's cave.

[DoomYoshi]

Jailing someone is basically role blocking them, but you can also save them from being killed. There's your explanation dickshit, I love you thanks. I guess my D1 had the intended effect, at least partly.

I'd assume I was targeted because I give off a lot of confidence etc. in general, but those that don't know me very well (most people playing) could read that as the confidence of a power role.

So you deliberately tried to get killed as a town power role? I'm not buying it.

unvote, vote caffeine

I'll post again when I've had time to look over D1 posts - which will likely be mostly useless - and figure out who tried to off me.

Obviously this never happened, because scum have no reason to scum-hunt.

[Pikanchion]

So I'd say it's fairly safe to assume...

Okay, but in that case you wouldn't know, unless you were in the cult, and if you were in the cult you wouldn't talk about it... though I suppose it could be a slip, or an attempt to act contrary to expectations... or perhaps one's free will fighting against the brainwashing.... (sigh) This whole thing is like being trapped in Plato's cave.

No, I don't know that's the case, but I assume it is, do you disagree? -That this entity from Mass Effect 1, appearing on the planet we're currently on, which exhibits abilities and behaviours that near enough perfectly describe how cults function in mafia games, and canonically is the only reason Saren and the Geth came to Feros (and so by extention Sheperd and the rest of the characters), exists and is a cult leader?