Final Fantasy VII Mafia - Shinra Corporation and Elena win

[wildwilliam]

I must admit I have kinda lost interest in this game since the whole "Roll/Role Call" incident.

There is only 1 reason I can think of why you would want to make a list of people you find scummy when there is nothing to go on but joke votes. I could understand if we were at day 7 or 8, close to finishing, and needed to go through details to make our last lynch. this would be beneficial because you would actually have more to analyze, like vote placement, non vote placement, past band wagons, post with meaning. I do not however see any merit in 1 person making a list of people then saying we all need to post who we think is scummy. What would the basis be on? 7 pages of dribble where we were joke voting and discussing characters?

If your point was to make everyone active in this game, then that really hurts town. People not posting gives you something to go on. Forcing people to post takes this away. now everyone becomes active and no one can submarine. If no one can submarine, no one can be called out and pressured for submarining. If you can't pressure a person, they can't be cracked and caught.

I guess it was beneficial for people who do not have English as their first language to learn how convoluted English really is and learn a little more about how words can have multiple meanings.

Definition/meaning of the work roll http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/search?q=define+roll&qpvt=roll+definition&FORM=DTPDIA

Definition/meaning of the work role http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/search?q=define+role&go=&form=QB

And now we have moved onto I L i l and the difference in letters. I am pretty sure we have gotten way off base.

Anyways, back to my reason why you would want to make a list this early: you want to appear pro town. I really want to vote doom, but there is someone I want to vote more.so FOS DOOM

unvote vote Victor

You have posted as if you are Tifa Lockhart or Aerith Gainsborough. you can't be both.

Please tell me diary entries are for fun so I can vote doom

[drake_259]

doom would have known that would have brang a lot of attention onto him, yes it makes seem seem really active and helping as mafia but i'm doubting he would have done that as mafia.

[Djfireside]

I tend to agree with the theory that it shouldnt be needed to post up and you could sit in the corner jsut watching however since there was no confirm portion I could see how mod would want to do it to at least make sure everyone is playing. It may be just a tactic or may be something else, however it does prove benefical that he is starting the conversation based on who covers who. Im getting rid of my joke vote but I do have a FOS on a few people but cant make heads or tails of it as there is not much to play on.

Im going to remove my joke vote and watch a few more posts to put a more standard vote up

UNVOTE

[strike wolf]

I must admit I have kinda lost interest in this game since the whole "Roll/Role Call" incident.

There is only 1 reason I can think of why you would want to make a list of people you find scummy when there is nothing to go on but joke votes. I could understand if we were at day 7 or 8, close to finishing, and needed to go through details to make our last lynch. this would be beneficial because you would actually have more to analyze, like vote placement, non vote placement, past band wagons, post with meaning. I do not however see any merit in 1 person making a list of people then saying we all need to post who we think is scummy. What would the basis be on? 7 pages of dribble where we were joke voting and discussing characters?

If your point was to make everyone active in this game, then that really hurts town. People not posting gives you something to go on. Forcing people to post takes this away. now everyone becomes active and no one can submarine. If no one can submarine, no one can be called out and pressured for submarining. If you can't pressure a person, they can't be cracked and caught.

I guess it was beneficial for people who do not have English as their first language to learn how convoluted English really is and learn a little more about how words can have multiple meanings.

Definition/meaning of the work roll http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/search?q=define+roll&qpvt=roll+definition&FORM=DTPDIA

Definition/meaning of the work role http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/search?q=define+role&go=&form=QB

And now we have moved onto I L i l and the difference in letters. I am pretty sure we have gotten way off base.

Anyways, back to my reason why you would want to make a list this early: you want to appear pro town. I really want to vote doom, but there is someone I want to vote more.so FOS DOOM

unvote vote Victor

You have posted as if you are Tifa Lockhart or Aerith Gainsborough. you can't be both.

Please tell me diary entries are for fun so I can vote doom

Inactivity is accurate except for the part that it was already covered that submarining mafia already did have an easy way to get into the conversation. What doom is doing right now may not be the best however it does force mafia to state their opinions about what is happening. Out of this the people I would be interested in are the people repeating what others have said before them without adding much and those that are slower to respond AT this stage in the game.

[Eldario]

YES, I'm here reading, not posting because i am having a bit of a hard time following all the FF VII references, but when i find something worthy of mentioning I will

[maximumbandit]

Prod received.

I haven't said anything because I haven't really had anything useful to contribute. Didn't someone in Bambi talk about that? :-p

So I'll go ahead and remove my joke vote, I guess...

unvote

[DoomYoshi]

@wildwilliam:

Cases on day 1 always come ex nihilo. They have to come from the discussion. Even if that discussion is just jokes. However, if the discussion starts to die, there is even less to build a case from. So, somebody has to stick their neck out and present a case. But why should only 1 person have to stick their neck out? Why not make everyone build their best case?

I am not going to bother arguing with you about catching scum through submarining (but you are wrong about that). Instead, I will note that you say the rollcall hurts town. However, you fos me for trying to appear pro town.

So, I am trying to appear pro town by hurting town?

[Commander9]

I too have been p0odded ... which is lucky because for the next two weeks I'm going to be away and pretty much uncontactable. I hope that isn't a problem, if it is then I am sorry. I've said what I've needed to say which should see us through until the night, I doubt day two will run quickly so I hope to squek back in with assistance in day two. Have a good Christmas and New Year everyone.

Personally, I don't see that as a big deal, but I think that these kind of things are always best to discuss with mod first and see if he's fine with it.

@ Vio:

You take your time to make a full response, yet you still contribute nothing to the game and you didn't do your roll call either I mean comon, I know you do tend to submarine in your games quite a bit, but you're here and you even take your time to make that big post... But it seems you didn't bother to read otherwise

I must admit I have kinda lost interest in this game since the whole "Roll/Role Call" incident.

There is only 1 reason I can think of why you would want to make a list of people you find scummy when there is nothing to go on but joke votes. I could understand if we were at day 7 or 8, close to finishing, and needed to go through details to make our last lynch. this would be beneficial because you would actually have more to analyze, like vote placement, non vote placement, past band wagons, post with meaning. I do not however see any merit in 1 person making a list of people then saying we all need to post who we think is scummy. What would the basis be on? 7 pages of dribble where we were joke voting and discussing characters?

Really? That's all that it takes? Tsk tsk tsk...

I tend to agree with the latter part as my posts have already stated before. It has helped to get an activity going, but it would have picked up anyways, except now he can (and does) take credit for it, which is my biggest problem.

If your point was to make everyone active in this game, then that really hurts town. People not posting gives you something to go on. Forcing people to post takes this away. now everyone becomes active and no one can submarine. If no one can submarine, no one can be called out and pressured for submarining. If you can't pressure a person, they can't be cracked and caught.

With this, however, I completely disagree. Just because a person is submarining doesn't mean that they're scum (nor that they're town) - but I've seen more than enough evidence that a lot of noobs tends to lose interest quick and end up submarining regardless whether they're town or scum. Even much more experienced players, like vioiet or Sully, tend to submarine and not be involved quite a bit when they're town, so this point is absolutely invalid. Pointing out that someone is inactive doesn't require a lot of effort and then that person can say that he/she has been active and been actively scum-hunting, which is complete BS. Inactive players should be replaced, but pressuring someone just because he has not been active and then trying to get someone lynch can lead to very bad outcomes for town and I do consider that scummy. Since you're new (or at least I've never played with you before), I will not pursue this anymore as of now as I want to create a friendly atmosphere for all new players, but I highly suggest reevaluating this approach towards scumhunting.

I guess it was beneficial for people who do not have English as their first language to learn how convoluted English really is and learn a little more about how words can have multiple meanings.

Definition/meaning of the work roll http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/search?q=define+roll&qpvt=roll+definition&FORM=DTPDIA

Definition/meaning of the work role http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/search?q=define+role&go=&form=QB

And now we have moved onto I L i l and the difference in letters. I am pretty sure we have gotten way off base.

...

Now was this really necessary? I don't believe that just because person has another language as their native (and not english), they should get worse treatment than others. It was an honest mistake and these things happen - there's no need to for this at all. Give them time and they will learn - just like I did and I've improved my own English.[/quote]

doom would have known that would have brang a lot of attention onto him, yes it makes seem seem really active and helping as mafia but i'm doubting he would have done that as mafia.

And why would he not do that as mafia?

[drake_259]

doom would have known that would have brang a lot of attention onto him, yes it makes seem seem really active and helping as mafia but i'm doubting he would have done that as mafia.

And why would he not do that as mafia?

well i cant really say without it being a WIFOM basically. i just don't think he would risk that much attention. but who knows.

[Commander9]

well i cant really say without it being a WIFOM basically. i just don't think he would risk that much attention. but who knows.

I can guarantee that almost all of the most experienced and best mafia forumers on this site would do it, especially if they have a GF role. The best way to avoid lynches is to act as much town as you can (not always the truth, but it is true most of the time) and while I can definitely see your point, experience suggests otherwise. Besides, with a game that has 25 players, I think we only have 2 investigative roles (a cop and a thief, according to my list) and I am quite sure that Yoshi would not be the 1st one to be investigated for either of the person. In fact, positive attention is normally good as long as it does not look forced or artificial.

[drake_259]

well i cant really say without it being a WIFOM basically. i just don't think he would risk that much attention. but who knows.

I can guarantee that almost all of the most experienced and best mafia forumers on this site would do it, especially if they have a GF role. The best way to avoid lynches is to act as much town as you can (not always the truth, but it is true most of the time) and while I can definitely see your point, experience suggests otherwise. Besides, with a game that has 25 players, I think we only have 2 investigative roles (a cop and a thief, according to my list) and I am quite sure that Yoshi would not be the 1st one to be investigated for either of the person. In fact, positive attention is normally good as long as it does not look forced or artificial.

Well he had trapped me in his games. I see your point, of course i never 100% believed him but would have hunted him down at a later day when things start to get more fishy.

[wildwilliam]

I guess it was beneficial for people who do not have English as their first language to learn how convoluted English really is and learn a little more about how words can have multiple meanings.

Definition/meaning of the work roll http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/search?q=define+roll&qpvt=roll+definition&FORM=DTPDIA

Definition/meaning of the work role http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/search?q=define+role&go=&form=QB

And now we have moved onto I L i l and the difference in letters. I am pretty sure we have gotten way off base.

...

Now was this really necessary? I don't believe that just because person has another language as their native (and not english), they should get worse treatment than others. It was an honest mistake and these things happen - there's no need to for this at all. Give them time and they will learn - just like I did and I've improved my own English.

I was empathizing with them, not degrading them.Simply pointing out that the word roll has 40 some different meanings..... thanks

[zimmah]

@wildwilliam:

Cases on day 1 always come ex nihilo. They have to come from the discussion. Even if that discussion is just jokes. However, if the discussion starts to die, there is even less to build a case from. So, somebody has to stick their neck out and present a case. But why should only 1 person have to stick their neck out? Why not make everyone build their best case?

I am not going to bother arguing with you about catching scum through submarining (but you are wrong about that). Instead, I will note that you say the rollcall hurts town. However, you fos me for trying to appear pro town.

So, I am trying to appear pro town by hurting town?

wlel in my opinion it was still early day 1, and most of the chat was about the game FFVII which most of us haven't even played, so that left a mayority allready out of the conversation, because simply we had no clue what it was all about, and then you came in with a rollcall, on early day 1 in the middle of a jokevote and flavor period? i mean, we didn't even really start the game yet and i have never ever seen anyone call for a rollcall espeially not this early and i didn't expect somethng like it either. i think you're really trying to force something and possibly even trying to confuse some people. i really think that is a scummy move.

[zimmah]

I guess it was beneficial for people who do not have English as their first language to learn how convoluted English really is and learn a little more about how words can have multiple meanings.

Definition/meaning of the work roll http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/search?q=define+roll&qpvt=roll+definition&FORM=DTPDIA

Definition/meaning of the work role http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/search?q=define+role&go=&form=QB

And now we have moved onto I L i l and the difference in letters. I am pretty sure we have gotten way off base.

Anyways, back to my reason why you would want to make a list this early: you want to appear pro town. I really want to vote doom, but there is someone I want to vote more.so FOS DOOM

unvote vote Victor

You have posted as if you are Tifa Lockhart or Aerith Gainsborough. you can't be both.

Please tell me diary entries are for fun so I can vote doom

oh please, just because i misread a letter and misunderstood a game-concept unfamiliar to me doesn't mean my vocabulary and general knowledge of the English language is lacking, English is indeed not my mother tongue but i'm quite fluent in it anyway and i'm quite on par with the average american. I could read a scientific article in english and understand nearly every word of it without having to look it up, something most average americans can't even do. I even normally don't have problems with most sayings (at least not more then normal, because since i'm autistic i even have problems with dutch saying sometimes, especially when they are unfamiliar to me) and dialects, i can converse with australians, brittish and americans on the phone just as easily and i can swap between languages instantly, i could for example have a conversation in english with person A while having a totaly differnt conversation in dutch with person B, and then another person having talk german to me (even tho i'm bad at speaking in german, i do understand it), and then translate all those conversations to person D. In my spare time i'm also learning japanese, so how many languages can you speak, read, write and understand? i bet my knowledge of linguistics reaches much farther then yours, and yet, everyone can make mistakes and everyone can missread and misinterpret. oh and just for refference, i'm just too lazy to be bothered capitalizing the 'i', it's not that i don't realize it's supposed to be capitalized, but really i cba to press shift everytime. don't judge someone just on the fact he's not living in a country that doesn't have english as their primary language, especially not dutch people because in holland EVERYONE has learned dutch, english, german and french, and most also took spanish and/or latin nd maybe even an extra few languages. Even tho i did learn french and spanish as well, i forgot those because i never use them, and humans tend to forget languages they don't use often.

oh and for your info, homonyms are not unique to the english language either, in fact, every language i know of has them. i even know a japanese one:

go-en both means 5 yen (written as 五円　Or simply ５円) but it could also mean respectful/honorable relationship (in that case it's written like 御縁). therefore 5 yen coins are often donated at shrines and also commonly gifted to special persons. although strictly speaking that would be a homophone, as in japanese it's unlikely to really have a word with 2 different meaning written the same, as their writing system uses characters that describe whatever they are writing about but since every character can be pronounced in multiple ways and a lot of characters share the same sound, homophones aren't that uncommon in japanese, (but on the other hand if you write it down using the roman alphabet, it appears like a homonym to us)

but let's stay on topic and just play mafia instead of studying native languages, shall we?

[wildwilliam]

I guess it was beneficial for people who do not have English as their first language to learn how convoluted English really is and learn a little more about how words can have multiple meanings.

Definition/meaning of the work roll http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/search?q=define+roll&qpvt=roll+definition&FORM=DTPDIA

Definition/meaning of the work role http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/search?q=define+role&go=&form=QB

And now we have moved onto I L i l and the difference in letters. I am pretty sure we have gotten way off base.

Anyways, back to my reason why you would want to make a list this early: you want to appear pro town. I really want to vote doom, but there is someone I want to vote more.so FOS DOOM

unvote vote Victor

You have posted as if you are Tifa Lockhart or Aerith Gainsborough. you can't be both.

Please tell me diary entries are for fun so I can vote doom

oh please, just because i misread a letter and misunderstood a game-concept unfamiliar to me doesn't mean my vocabulary and general knowledge of the English language is lacking, English is indeed not my mother tongue but i'm quite fluent in it anyway and i'm quite on par with the average american. I could read a scientific article in english and understand nearly every word of it without having to look it up, something most average americans can't even do. I even normally don't have problems with most sayings (at least not more then normal, because since i'm autistic i even have problems with dutch saying sometimes, especially when they are unfamiliar to me) and dialects, i can converse with australians, brittish and americans on the phone just as easily and i can swap between languages instantly, i could for example have a conversation in english with person A while having a totaly differnt conversation in dutch with person B, and then another person having talk german to me (even tho i'm bad at speaking in german, i do understand it), and then translate all those conversations to person D. In my spare time i'm also learning japanese, so how many languages can you speak, read, write and understand? i bet my knowledge of linguistics reaches much farther then yours, and yet, everyone can make mistakes and everyone can missread and misinterpret. oh and just for refference, i'm just too lazy to be bothered capitalizing the 'i', it's not that i don't realize it's supposed to be capitalized, but really i cba to press shift everytime. don't judge someone just on the fact he's not living in a country that doesn't have english as their primary language, especially not dutch people because in holland EVERYONE has learned dutch, english, german and french, and most also took spanish and/or latin nd maybe even an extra few languages. Even tho i did learn french and spanish as well, i forgot those because i never use them, and humans tend to forget languages they don't use often.

oh and for your info, homonyms are not unique to the english language either, in fact, every language i know of has them. i even know a japanese one:

go-en both means 5 yen (written as 五円　Or simply ５円) but it could also mean respectful/honorable relationship (in that case it's written like 御縁). therefore 5 yen coins are often donated at shrines and also commonly gifted to special persons. although strictly speaking that would be a homophone, as in japanese it's unlikely to really have a word with 2 different meaning written the same, as their writing system uses characters that describe whatever they are writing about but since every character can be pronounced in multiple ways and a lot of characters share the same sound, homophones aren't that uncommon in japanese, (but on the other hand if you write it down using the roman alphabet, it appears like a homonym to us)

but let's stay on topic and just play mafia instead of studying native languages, shall we?

again: I was empathizing with them, not degrading them.Simply pointing out that the word roll has 40 some different meanings..... thanks

[edocsil]

Just saying, Zimmah 1, Others 0.

[new guy1]

i would have to agree. lol

[Victor Sullivan]

Just saying, Zimmah 1, Others 0.

-Sully

[chapcrap]

Well, I don't feel like this day is going anywhere fast.

VS has been typically a bit scummy and generally confusing in his posts without any effort to clear it up. Even posting right above me and ignoring wildwilliam's vote towards him. He is continuing to post things that are of no use or help (not that other aren't...edoc, newguy1 right above him). But since he has been called out on it and continues to do it, it is beginning to become scummier.

unvote vote Victor Sullivan

[new guy1]

i agree, but ill wait to see if theres anyone that is pointed out by another person on the roll call that looks scummier to vote.

[Victor Sullivan]

I feel like it should be pretty obvious my 'diary entries' were simply pointless flavor that was more for fun than soft-claims and subliminal messages.

-Sully

[new guy1]

now that you say that, i think i remember you saying that a while back. sorry victor!

[strike wolf]

This is the second or third time Victor's said it. I think it may be apparent from my lack of comment on it but I don't buy into it very much. This honestly just seems like something victor would do to just be victor and if he is trying to send messages, he's kind of airmailing it in a very odd way.

[new guy1]

well i thought maybe his role required him to post random stuff every day or something and now he could blow it off saying he was just posting it for randomness, but i guess we have to wait till day two to confirm that.

[chapcrap]

well i thought maybe his role required him to post random stuff every day or something and now he could blow it off saying he was just posting it for randomness, but i guess we have to wait till day two to confirm that.

That's his role in life. Not his mafia role.