Skyrim Mafia Endgame: Hail Sithis! (3/18) Skyrim Wins!

[pancakemix]

My explantion you ask?
by ghostly447 on Sat May 05, 2012 11:14 pm
by ghostly447 on Mon May 07, 2012 8:54 am

Post times. And more?

The fact that half the case was fought after the first post.

If you are going to try to show how I changed my mind, provide enough for both sides. unvote

Merely pointing out something that was strange. You threw your vote in because his broken down case was evidence, then said there wasn't enough evidence to cast a vote.

"Half the case"? No. More like two posts. Don't lie.

If you had simply said you were having second thoughts, my interest wouldn't be quite so piqued. This is a complete reversal.

[pancakemix]

Oh, yes, new guy. I find that odd, but nothing to vote over. Definitely more of a town slip. Odd how it was tacked on, as if for clarification, though...

[Iron Butterfly]

I am just trying to figure out what your motivation would be for a soft claim..

It was giving backstory on my playstyles explaining why I was being innactive. I didnt even think of it being a softclaim until someone pointed it out.

Now that it is pointed out to us that it is a soft claim what do we do with it? I would think he would now be on top of the mafia hit list. Then again mafia would know he is probably watched/protected and choose a less risky target. It is day one after all.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

I am just trying to figure out what your motivation would be for a soft claim..

It was giving backstory on my playstyles explaining why I was being innactive. I didnt even think of it being a softclaim until someone pointed it out.

Now that it is pointed out to us that it is a soft claim what do we do with it? I would think he would now be on top of the mafia hit list. Then again mafia would know he is probably watched/protected and choose a less risky target. It is day one after all.

lol so in claiming a non town role you dont even need a doc lol nice

[new guy1]

I am just trying to figure out what your motivation would be for a soft claim..

It was giving backstory on my playstyles explaining why I was being innactive. I didnt even think of it being a softclaim until someone pointed it out.

Now that it is pointed out to us that it is a soft claim what do we do with it? I would think he would now be on top of the mafia hit list. Then again mafia would know he is probably watched/protected and choose a less risky target. It is day one after all.

Skim much? Scratch that I kinda see how you could think that was me saying yes its a softclaim, but what Im saying is IF it was a softclaim, it was NOT intentional. Therefore it has ZERO backing to it as a softclaim and should be taken as a piece of advice instead of one.

[/]

I am just trying to figure out what your motivation would be for a soft claim..

It was giving backstory on my playstyles explaining why I was being innactive. I didnt even think of it being a softclaim until someone pointed it out.

Now that it is pointed out to us that it is a soft claim what do we do with it? I would think he would now be on top of the mafia hit list. Then again mafia would know he is probably watched/protected and choose a less risky target. It is day one after all.

And what does speculation on whom is a likely target do to help us? Let the power roles do as they please, it's for them to figure out, not for you to say "newguy may be killed hint hint, maybe the power roles should pile on him so/while the mafia goes elsewhere" FOS Iron

Now to the rest of you, there is less than a week left for us to get SOMETHING done, and the last few pages of conversation do little more than repeating "herp derp, maybe newguys claim is teh scummy, maybe not *withhold vote*" over and over.
the following players are still withholding their votes
Leehar, edocsil, IB, LSU, Xenhu, sound, CMS, kager
I very much suspect them, and since it's a multi faction game perhaps through robotic AI psychology, and staggering improbability, they could all be scum. FOS, Prove me wrong? Get something done!

for now, pancake's case is fair enough on some points, it is indeed odd that either jak honestly believed "dazza is probably not godfather" was cowboyz calling dazza out, or he refuses to admit to skimming no matter what. since jak has the most votes on him at the moment with less time to waste I will stoop to bandwagoning Unvote vote jak

[XenHu]

And what does speculation on whom is a likely target do to help us? Let the power roles do as they please, it's for them to figure out, not for you to say "newguy may be killed hint hint, maybe the power roles should pile on him so/while the mafia goes elsewhere" FOS Iron

Why are you FOS'ing him? He's just re-iterating what I already said.

Oh. Wow. Nope, that's not hinting. You might as well have hung a sign. You do realize that if you're alive tomorrow, there are going to be a lot of questions. Really, the mafia can play us like violins for another day if you think about it. Let you live, we waste a day either lynching you, or going back and forth about it until we end up(possibly) lynching someone else. Kill you in the night and, well, either we've lost an important role, or we've lost just another body.

Well it is a hint, as I said. Of course that could be a clever rouse to get mafia to waste a nightkill.

IMO, no nightkill is wasted. A kill is a kill, and at the very least, it's one less town(Albeit, I've never been a fan of abiding a village idiot ). Now, as I've said, no knowledge of the setting, but it sounds like we are dealing with three sides here, just going off of the flavor text posted by Mod. Which means that there are probably some odd VCs(Victory Conditions) out there.

Jesus, ain't this just a peach.

-X

It is most certainly within our place to speculate on the actions of power roles/mafia. Why wouldn't we?

Now to the rest of you, there is less than a week left for us to get SOMETHING done, and the last few pages of conversation do little more than repeating "herp derp, maybe newguys claim is teh scummy, maybe not *withhold vote*" over and over.

Hmm, that might be because he claimed/soft-claimed(whatever the hell you feel like calling it) to be a non-VT, only to afterwards turn around and do this:

definition of hint: "A brief or indirect suggestion", "I am hinting I am not x" is not a hint, it's a mind screw.

Sorry, I guess I didnt give a hint, just anti-soft claimed then. Haha.

fastposted- I have already posted that it could be a rouse.

Yep. I got the part where it was a stupid decision to post that from edoc, you really didnt need to go into detail on it. And yep, Im sure now that you posted how mafia could just play this like a violin thats exactly what they will do. Thanks for pointing it out to everyone.

You know, looking at it now, he kinda got pissed off that I was talking about what the power-roles/mafia might do as well. Obviously there was going to be a debate over whether or not to lynch him, in my mind I still don't buy it as a mistake. How do you mistakenly post something like that? Forum posting is not like talking, you have plenty of time to read what you have written before you post.

since jak has the most votes on him at the moment with less time to waste I will stoop to bandwagoning Unvote vote jak

lolwut? 'Hey guys let's get our shit together we have less than a week to lynch. I'm going to FOS a bunch of you for withholding your votes and taking time to discuss things oh look there's jak with a bunch of votes I'm just gonna leave my vote here. kthxbai!'

So, again, let me sum this up. You FOS Iron for speculating on the moves of the power-roles/mafia,(which I already did, and someone else got pissy about. Oddly enough it's the guy you seem to not mind 'soft-claiming'), you call out a bunch of us for 'herp derping' 'not doing anything' and wanting to think things through, then you turn around and bandwagon a guy just because time is 'running out'?

Vote: /

Wish granted.

-X

[/]

And what does speculation on whom is a likely target do to help us? Let the power roles do as they please, it's for them to figure out, not for you to say "newguy may be killed hint hint, maybe the power roles should pile on him so/while the mafia goes elsewhere" FOS Iron

Why are you FOS'ing him? He's just re-iterating what I already said.

Oh. Wow. Nope, that's not hinting. You might as well have hung a sign. You do realize that if you're alive tomorrow, there are going to be a lot of questions. Really, the mafia can play us like violins for another day if you think about it. Let you live, we waste a day either lynching you, or going back and forth about it until we end up(possibly) lynching someone else. Kill you in the night and, well, either we've lost an important role, or we've lost just another body.

Well it is a hint, as I said. Of course that could be a clever rouse to get mafia to waste a nightkill.

IMO, no nightkill is wasted. A kill is a kill, and at the very least, it's one less town(Albeit, I've never been a fan of abiding a village idiot ). Now, as I've said, no knowledge of the setting, but it sounds like we are dealing with three sides here, just going off of the flavor text posted by Mod. Which means that there are probably some odd VCs(Victory Conditions) out there.

Jesus, ain't this just a peach.

-X

It is most certainly within our place to speculate on the actions of power roles/mafia. Why wouldn't we?

Did you read his post, or just mine? You want to talk about mafia, do so all you want, we have flavor to go on, this is a theme game, what Iron did was not that, if you had read it one bit, what he was doing was speculation on weather or not the town doc or town watcher was going to use thier ability on newguy, are you saying everyone knowing the pifalls the mafia needs to avoid in advance will help town?

And as for the rest, I am chiding players not for discussion, but for fence sitting and running down the clock. See what newguy did as a scum move? Fine, vote. See what newguy did as a simple mistake? Fine, defend him. There is no grey "eh it could be A, it could be B, I really can't decide..." That's called not helping, it's posting to show people you post, rather than posting for the sake of hunting scum.
And thanks for cutting off the part where I noted the jak-wagon (lol pun) had some logical points, and the timing was just the push, that should make for some decent day 2 fodder if things go well.

[ghostly447]

I am glad I am not the only one who finds it scummy that everytime someone tries to lure (soft claiming hoping to get mafia to kill them rather than someone else). I do it as a VT in faster games because by doing that, the mafia has to kill me. For now, I dont think New guy1 is mafia just because I think his ploy was for the overall embetterment of the town.

As for X vs /, I dont know. I find it scummy that X cut off the part / already mentioned, but the case is still developing. If I get time to go back I will try to see what all I can gather. But I want this day moving just as bad as most people, and if this proves to be a decent case, it may also prove to be our lynch.

I will read up if I get time.

[Iron Butterfly]

And what does speculation on whom is a likely target do to help us? Let the power roles do as they please, it's for them to figure out, not for you to say "newguy may be killed hint hint, maybe the power roles should pile on him so/while the mafia goes elsewhere" FOS Iron

Why are you FOS'ing him? He's just re-iterating what I already said.

Oh. Wow. Nope, that's not hinting. You might as well have hung a sign. You do realize that if you're alive tomorrow, there are going to be a lot of questions. Really, the mafia can play us like violins for another day if you think about it. Let you live, we waste a day either lynching you, or going back and forth about it until we end up(possibly) lynching someone else. Kill you in the night and, well, either we've lost an important role, or we've lost just another body.

Well it is a hint, as I said. Of course that could be a clever rouse to get mafia to waste a nightkill.

IMO, no nightkill is wasted. A kill is a kill, and at the very least, it's one less town(Albeit, I've never been a fan of abiding a village idiot ). Now, as I've said, no knowledge of the setting, but it sounds like we are dealing with three sides here, just going off of the flavor text posted by Mod. Which means that there are probably some odd VCs(Victory Conditions) out there.

Jesus, ain't this just a peach.

-X

It is most certainly within our place to speculate on the actions of power roles/mafia. Why wouldn't we?

Did you read his post, or just mine? You want to talk about mafia, do so all you want, we have flavor to go on, this is a theme game, what Iron did was not that, if you had read it one bit, what he was doing was speculation on weather or not the town doc or town watcher was going to use thier ability on newguy, are you saying everyone knowing the pifalls the mafia needs to avoid in advance will help town?

And as for the rest, I am chiding players not for discussion, but for fence sitting and running down the clock. See what newguy did as a scum move? Fine, vote. See what newguy did as a simple mistake? Fine, defend him. There is no grey "eh it could be A, it could be B, I really can't decide..." That's called not helping, it's posting to show people you post, rather than posting for the sake of hunting scum.
And thanks for cutting off the part where I noted the jak-wagon (lol pun) had some logical points, and the timing was just the push, that should make for some decent day 2 fodder if things go well.

This may be a theme game but flavor takes you only so far. This is first and foremost a mafia game. I said nothing wrong.

[new guy1]

Also, Im adding to the post above, we can assume which faction is playing mafia but we dont know for sure, therefore even if someone does claim and they seem to look to be the mafia doesnt mean they are... if that makes sense...

[jonty125]

I am just trying to figure out what your motivation would be for a soft claim..

It was giving backstory on my playstyles explaining why I was being innactive. I didnt even think of it being a softclaim until someone pointed it out.

Now that it is pointed out to us that it is a soft claim what do we do with it? I would think he would now be on top of the mafia hit list. Then again mafia would know he is probably watched/protected and choose a less risky target. It is day one after all.

lol so in claiming a non town role you dont even need a doc lol nice

I don't see how you came to this conclusion

[Some7hingCLEVER]

I am just trying to figure out what your motivation would be for a soft claim..

It was giving backstory on my playstyles explaining why I was being innactive. I didnt even think of it being a softclaim until someone pointed it out.

Now that it is pointed out to us that it is a soft claim what do we do with it? I would think he would now be on top of the mafia hit list. Then again mafia would know he is probably watched/protected and choose a less risky target. It is day one after all.

lol so in claiming a non town role you dont even need a doc lol nice

I don't see how you came to this conclusion

lol think about it if im a power role and i say "hey guys im a power role doc on me!" then mafia says oh the doc might doc him we should get someone else. so just the speculation of a doc doccing someone is good enough as a doc protection. lol this was somewhat a joke.

[/]

Mod, could we maybe have a prod or something?

[XenHu]

What's he going to do? Prod everyone?

-_-

-X

[/]

What's he going to do? Prod everyone?

-_-

-X

Was that supposed to be a sarcastic rhetorical question? Because that is in fact the easiest way to send prods.
I also find it interesting that you chose that post to rebute, rather than offering a counter-rebuttal to my more important post.

[new guy1]

What's he going to do? Prod everyone?

-_-

-X

Was that supposed to be a sarcastic rhetorical question? Because that is in fact the easiest way to send prods.
I also find it interesting that you chose that post to rebute, rather than offering a counter-rebuttal to my more important post.

Well I prefer poking with a very sharp blade to get their attention

[XenHu]

What's he going to do? Prod everyone?

-_-

-X

Was that supposed to be a sarcastic rhetorical question? Because that is in fact the easiest way to send prods.
I also find it interesting that you chose that post to rebute, rather than offering a counter-rebuttal to my more important post.

I don't really have anything to say in regards to your 'more important post'.

I am chiding players not for discussion, but for fence sitting and running down the clock. See what newguy did as a scum move? Fine, vote. See what newguy did as a simple mistake? Fine, defend him. There is no grey "eh it could be A, it could be B, I really can't decide..." That's called not helping, it's posting to show people you post, rather than posting for the sake of hunting scum

That's an opinion....

And thanks for cutting off the part where I noted the jak-wagon (lol pun) had some logical points

And so is that. I don't want to split hairs over opinions. We all saw how that ended up.

-X

[/]

Well I prefer poking with a very sharp blade to get their attention

not helpful, entertaining, but not helpful.
still pushing that clever case for "stealing his master's signature" 15 pages ago? LFOS Large Finger of suspicion

To xenhu, that's your opinion that it's not worth splitting hairs, but whatever.
I notice once again a very large piece has been conspicuously left out, like you drank a potion of "weakness to fire" and are afraid to get burned, it makes it very easy to see which arguments hurt.
Conveniently, the part where I called you out for defending Iron without at all understanding his post, is missing from your counter, why is that? As you claim he, quote; "He's just re-iterating what I already said" And it seems that it upset you that he was FOSed, as it seemed to make up a decent part of your case against me, is iron right?

I said nothing wrong.

Do you think it's A OK for us to speculate on what the town doc and town watcher will do tonight?


Hmm, I think there are some decent cases to fall back on lined up, edoc can probably be linked to newguy for declaring newguy is town, Xenhu can probably be linked to Iron for defending his post on a knee jerk reaction, and I'll have to look back to connect the dots with jak, now with four days left I again implore town to decide on something lest we rush lynches without being able to A: contemplate claims and B: being able to fall back on other cases!

@ Mod; is an extension possible?

[everywhere116]

Perhaps. I don't like doing that, though.

I'll send out a mass prod.

[XenHu]

Well I prefer poking with a very sharp blade to get their attention

not helpful, entertaining, but not helpful.
still pushing that clever case for "stealing his master's signature" 15 pages ago? LFOS Large Finger of suspicion

To xenhu, that's your opinion that it's not worth splitting hairs, but whatever.
I notice once again a very large piece has been conspicuously left out, like you drank a potion of "weakness to fire" and are afraid to get burned, it makes it very easy to see which arguments hurt.
Conveniently, the part where I called you out for defending Iron without at all understanding his post, is missing from your counter, why is that? As you claim he, quote; "He's just re-iterating what I already said" And it seems that it upset you that he was FOSed, as it seemed to make up a decent part of your case against me, is iron right?

I said nothing wrong.

Do you think it's A OK for us to speculate on what the town doc and town watcher will do tonight?


Hmm, I think there are some decent cases to fall back on lined up, edoc can probably be linked to newguy for declaring newguy is town, Xenhu can probably be linked to Iron for defending his post on a knee jerk reaction, and I'll have to look back to connect the dots with jak, now with four days left I again implore town to decide on something lest we rush lynches without being able to A: contemplate claims and B: being able to fall back on other cases!

@ Mod; is an extension possible?

Oh for the love of God! It's not quoted because it isn't relevant to my post! If people need to see what I've said they can go back and read it. By your logic, every time I post I should quote everything that was said prior! The post will be huge then, and frankly that makes it a pain in the ass to read/write. If people need to find something, they can go find it. I'm sure you're going to try and make it sound like I now support 'burying the truth' or whatever you want to call it, and frankly I don't care. I don't support lazy play, or sloppy posts. And I'm most certainly not going to post a specific way just to satisfy one person. If I get lynched for having standards, good. As I said before, that wasn't a counter, as there isn't anything to counter in the first place.

I understood his post just fine. Speculation on the moves of power-roles/mafia is not suspicious behavior. The end. There's nothing 'knee-jerk' about what I said at all.

If arguing over the meaning of common words in the English language is a common tactic and the editing/omitting of quotes for the sake of clarity is considered 'suspicious' in the average mafia player's mind these days, I'm almost wishing something will just mercy-kill me during the night.

You're not making any sense. For one, you say we should link edoc to newguy for declaring newguy is town? Oh hey, newguy is town! Are you going to 'link' me to him to? That's just stupid.

Screw it, he isn't scum. I'm calling meta on this one, I don't think he intended as much WIFOM as I elaborated. I have played enough with him that I think I can say he isn't there yet. Unvote
It was just a bad move, and one that is unlikely to be repeated.

Calling meta is normal if you've played with someone enough. I don't find this scummy. I would if he'd be pushing others to move away from newguy, but he's not. And if you notice, he just said he wasn't scum. Ooooo, what could that mean? He never explicitly mentions newguy being town, must have been a slip!


-X

[/]

The reason I called you on not mentioning the part in question, was because it was a question. If one is asked a question then it is always relevant to answer it.

Did you read his post, or just mine? You want to talk about mafia, do so all you want, we have flavor to go on, this is a theme game, what Iron did was not that, if you had read it one bit, what he was doing was speculation on weather or not the town doc or town watcher was going to use their ability on newguy, are you saying everyone knowing the pitfalls the mafia needs to avoid in advance will help town?

see, question marks.

And on the edoc thing, "linked" was not the right word, but there are derivative possibilities to put into context.
if newguy is scum and edoc is scum, there is a slight but admittedly unlikely possibility that edoc posted his suspicion before remembering they were on the same side, then hastily backtracked and said he was town, not wanting pressure to build, this has actually happened to me once as scum when not paying attention enough...
If newguy is town, it is possible that edoc's motive was originally to appear active, he put forward a case on newguy, then realizing he didn't want to be implicated on what he believed to be a shoddy case, he announced newguy was not mafia, a Freudian slip of assurance from knowing who mafia actually is.

I know, it's impossible to know for certain, but those are my typical paranoid day one gut feelings.

[edocsil]

We aren't going to get a legitimate case and lynch before deadline

From his last game.
2012-01-10 00:37:04 - LSU Tiger Josh was kicked out for missing too many turns


LSU is AWOL again, I propose we hang him/force a replace. It beats sitting here looking at each other stupidly. If nothing else it will help activity d2.

Unvote vote LSU

[jonty125]

We aren't going to get a legitimate case and lynch before deadline

From his last game.
2012-01-10 00:37:04 - LSU Tiger Josh was kicked out for missing too many turns


LSU is AWOL again, I propose we hang him/force a replace. It beats sitting here looking at each other stupidly. If nothing else it will help activity d2.

Unvote vote LSU

I think a replace would be best.

[edocsil]

We aren't going to get a legitimate case and lynch before deadline

From his last game.
2012-01-10 00:37:04 - LSU Tiger Josh was kicked out for missing too many turns


LSU is AWOL again, I propose we hang him/force a replace. It beats sitting here looking at each other stupidly. If nothing else it will help activity d2.

Unvote vote LSU

I think a replace would be best.

No shit? Still, pressure forces the mod to make a decision rather then say, "Well, I suppose I'll prod him....."