Rolegift Mafia, All Present

[Commander9]

Are you asking TA1LGUNN3R or Skoffin if they received anything else? I was under the impression that those two roles were all that TA1LGUNN3R got last night. Skoffin claims to have gotten one gift on night 1 that he hasn't mentioned just yet. There are only two possibilities for this role. Mr. Squirrel's commuter power, or the single remaining gift that we have no information on yet. Every gift in the game save for one has been revealed at this point. (Unless someone lied.)

To be fair, I'm fairly certain that there should be at least a couple of incorrect gifts - Mafia would have no need to reveal their right ones as it holds no benefit. Confusing town, however, does, so I'm assuming at least a couple of them are not right. This may come in handy, especially when claiming who sent gifts to who and who received what, but we shouldn't take it for gold.

[Fircoal]

Are you asking TA1LGUNN3R or Skoffin if they received anything else? I was under the impression that those two roles were all that TA1LGUNN3R got last night. Skoffin claims to have gotten one gift on night 1 that he hasn't mentioned just yet. There are only two possibilities for this role. Mr. Squirrel's commuter power, or the single remaining gift that we have no information on yet. Every gift in the game save for one has been revealed at this point. (Unless someone lied.)

To be fair, I'm fairly certain that there should be at least a couple of incorrect gifts - Mafia would have no need to reveal their right ones as it holds no benefit. Confusing town, however, does, so I'm assuming at least a couple of them are not right. This may come in handy, especially when claiming who sent gifts to who and who received what, but we shouldn't take it for gold.

I THINK THEY'rE ALREADY GOOD ON THE CONFUSING TOWN PART!!!! I AM SO LOST HERE. WHO DID WHAT!?!?!?!?!

[spiesr]

I THINK THEY'rE ALREADY GOOD ON THE CONFUSING TOWN PART!!!! I AM SO LOST HERE. WHO DID WHAT!?!?!?!?!

Here you go...

Click image to enlarge.

[safariguy5]

Sorry, slight correction there, the box of chocolates is actually a box of caramels that make me lose my vote.

The Mayor (governor) item is a cake.

[aage]

I think this is the right time to reveal some more ^^

I had the busdriver gift last night, and I drove Safari with Commander.
I think that explains a LOT.

[spiesr]

I had the busdriver gift last night, and I drove Safari with Commander.
I think that explains a LOT.

I don't think that that actually explains that much at this point in time. While kwanton targeted both Commander and safariguy, he was blocked so neither action went through. If he had not been blocked though then this switch would be very important information. As it is, the only known actions to target them are Fircoal protecting Commander instead of safariguy (but any kills targeted towards safariguy would also have been sent to Commander so it is hard to gain much info from that) and more importantly, Fircoal blocking safariguy instead of Commander. Now that I think about it this one could actually be important. It means that the idea of a connection between Commander having been blocked and there not being a kill is out. Not sure that that was that directly important to the case against Commander anyway though. The only real item of importance stemming from that is when TAILGUNN3R used the idea as bait to see if anybody would jump on and try to lynch Commander based on that idea. This ploy is still as valid, or invalid, as it was before since only you knew that Commander was not blocked.

[/]

Vote Count
exactly the same as last time
...with one correction
naxus; 3 votes: pancakemix, safariguy, kwanton, spiesr
Pancakemix; 1 vote: aage
11 alive, 6 to lynch

[aage]

I had the busdriver gift last night, and I drove Safari with Commander.
I think that explains a LOT.

I don't think that that actually explains that much at this point in time. While kwanton targeted both Commander and safariguy, he was blocked so neither action went through. If he had not been blocked though then this switch would be very important information. As it is, the only known actions to target them are Fircoal protecting Commander instead of safariguy (but any kills targeted towards safariguy would also have been sent to Commander so it is hard to gain much info from that) and more importantly, Fircoal blocking safariguy instead of Commander. Now that I think about it this one could actually be important. It means that the idea of a connection between Commander having been blocked and there not being a kill is out. Not sure that that was that directly important to the case against Commander anyway though. The only real item of importance stemming from that is when TAILGUNN3R used the idea as bait to see if anybody would jump on and try to lynch Commander based on that idea. This ploy is still as valid, or invalid, as it was before since only you knew that Commander was not blocked.

That's because Tailgunner and I can talk during this day and the next night, and I already mentioned this to him before.

Mind you, I've only been withholding this information to see the reactions. It would have been interesting to see whether Commander would claim if any of the actions against him have been executed. I doubt there are double gifts so any conclusions would be valid ones. I will now be rereading some of the posts, but Hot Fuzz is on the telly so I might get interrupted

[aage]

Right, it seems there are 4 ways to stop a kill at the moment:
- doc protection (bandages)
- jailkeep protection (cheese)
- jailkeep block (cheese)
- Roleblock block (rope)

Let's have a look where these went to.

I was thte one that got the roleblovk this last night (rope) I used it on Commander. I wonder if the power was bus driven. I also got some bandages (doc protection) which I use don Safari. MAybe Safari was the one targeted?

The bandages were used on Commander, the rope was used on safari. (busdrive)
I am interested though what that bold sentence means. By chance both these actions ended up being busdriven, which makes me suspect that you had some sort of knowledge on this. Maybe for some reason you know that Safariguy was not roleblocked?

So I tried a little theory of mine. I got a jailkeep. I blocked Kwan.
...
I figured that if Kwan was mafia (or any of his scummies who didn't know he was roleblocked), then they would've jumped all over this to get Commander lynched, a townie who looked pretty scummy. Kwan hasn't said anything, and no one else has either (spiesr mentioned something, but not much), so I'm of the opinion that Commander is actually a mafioso.

The cheese was used on Kwan.

This means that either:
- the kill was sent by Kwan
- the kill was sent by Safari
- the kill was planned on Kwan
- the kill was planned on Commander9

I don't see any of the last two really happen since I don't deem these two players to have significant gifts nor significantly dangerous playstyle towards the mafia. Commander gives the Ouija Board which appears to be either a paranoid or an insane cop, and less of a threat to town than a possible library card which is in the hands of another towny, or bandages which are also probably in the hands of another towny. It's not what I'd do in such a situation.

Kwanton hasn't contributed at all to the discussion yesterday, so either the scum wanted to be sure of a kill (on night 2, which seems odd), or he was not targeted (which I suspect is the case).

Safariguy is town IMO for immediately outing Mr. Squirrel while he could also have kept his mouth shut.

This leaves me with the option of Kwan sending the kill. It is possible. It is also possible that the mafia decided to kill Commander9 anyway, in case his gift is an insane cop action, so I'm not 100% on this, but the second point (on Kwan not doing anything) does not make his prospects any brighter.

__________________________________


Commander conveniently claimed not to have gotten any gifts:

No surprises here, but I got nothing today.

Long after Fircoal claimed that he had roleblocked Commander. I suggest that anyone who can disprove this steps up, but I suppose people would already have done that.

I'd be interested, Fircoal, why you chose to roleblock Commander? I suppose you'd use that gift on the most scummy player, so can you explain why Commander was scummy according to you? I can see why one would use the bandages on Saf, since only a stupid scummy would turn his mate in like that, which pretty much makes Saf town, but Commander? Why? He claimed the Ouija board, which seems town to me.


I think I'll take my vote off pancakemix for now so unvote. I could be making a case right now about scumarining and diverting town attention, but I only have 5 minutes left so I will do that later, if at all. I'll hear Fircoal's response first.


______________________________________________



On another note, there's something else from day 1 I'd like to discuss.

That night many gifts were opened, the fortunate few began a war amongst themselves "I know you are scum *name omitted*" said a possessed voice, he shot at his target "I'm not your target! I'm GA7!"

Apparently someone non-mafia tried to kill whoever ga7 was busdriven with.
IIRC this gift/kill has been claimed by Skoff but she said she did not use it. However that does not at all match with the flavor / gave us. Since the other flavor (namely, the name tags) are spot on, I don't see why he would let a Mafia killer, even in flavour, say that someone is scum.

____________________________


Phew. That's three people in one post. Thoughts?

[Skoffin]

So you are claiming to have the paper cups then? Was it you or tail that received that item?

Sorry, but I seem to be having some comprehension fail as I'm not quite sure I understand what the last points on me are about. XD Could you clarify that a bit for me?

[TA1LGUNN3R]

I received the paper cups, and decided to mason up with aage. I take it that you received them earlier?

-Tails

[kwanton]

I've both explained and apologized for my inactivity during the previous day/night cycle in my first post today. I had to go away for a few days. I was absent for all of the game day nearly all of the night. I was allowed to send in actions late which is why I'm assuming this day started on saturday rather than thursday. Again, I'm sorry for the inactivity and delay of game.

[Skoffin]

I received the paper cups, and decided to mason up with aage. I take it that you received them earlier?

-Tails

Precisely.

[aage]

I received the paper cups, and decided to mason up with aage. I take it that you received them earlier?

-Tails

Precisely.

I think Naxus gave them. 1 + 1 = 2. Yesterday he gave stuff to Tails, day before to Skoff.

Sorry, but I seem to be having some comprehension fail as I'm not quite sure I understand what the last points on me are about. XD Could you clarify that a bit for me?

If you can point to which points you mean I will gladly explain them.

[aage]

I received the paper cups, and decided to mason up with aage. I take it that you received them earlier?

-Tails

Precisely.

I think Naxus gave them. 1 + 1 = 2. Yesterday he gave stuff to Tails, day before to Skoff.

Sorry, but I seem to be having some comprehension fail as I'm not quite sure I understand what the last points on me are about. XD Could you clarify that a bit for me?

If you can point to which points you mean I will gladly explain them.

Oh, and I am not keeping to the 5-minute thing I mentioned in my previous post because I decided to go to bed at 00:00, figured I had another board of mafia games which I needed to attend which took a serious amount of time to handle since I'm a scummy (slightly succesfully) talking his way out of a lynch.

[spiesr]

This means that either:
- the kill was sent by Kwan
- the kill was sent by Safari
- the kill was planned on Kwan
- the kill was planned on Commander9

The last line is incorrect. Due to the bus-driving, any kill aimed at Commander would have killed safariguy. If the kill was targeted on safariguy then the it would have hit Commander and been saved by the bandages. So the mafia could not have not targeted Commander, but could have targeted safariguy.

Sorry, but I seem to be having some comprehension fail as I'm not quite sure I understand what the last points on me are about. XD Could you clarify that a bit for me?

Aage's point is basically that the scene seems to imply ga7 was not killed by the scum night 1, but rather someone trying to kill the scum. Since you claimed to have received the only killing gift, then you must have killed him. Interestingly that logic would also seem to indicate that you would be town in that case. Did you use your killing power night 1? I think that you implied that you didn't, but we never got an official confirmation.

I received the paper cups, and decided to mason up with aage. I take it that you received them earlier?

Precisely.

So then this could be naxus's gift. (If he is not lying then it has to be.) Now, what does that mean for his case? Since he doesn't appear to be lying about where he sent his gifts we can't use lynch all liars to quickly end things. On the other hand the case is still entirely valid and not really impacted by this in any other way. Also, the ability he gifts would probably not be a huge loss to the town, for whatever that is worth.

[naxus]

I received the paper cups, and decided to mason up with aage. I take it that you received them earlier?

-Tails

Precisely.

Do you mind If I ask who you masoned up with when you had?

also i think its a awesome gift

[Fircoal]

I received the paper cups, and decided to mason up with aage. I take it that you received them earlier?

-Tails

Precisely.

Do you mind If I ask who you masoned up with when you had?

also i think its a awesome gift

WEll of course YOU do.

[Fircoal]

__________________________________


Commander conveniently claimed not to have gotten any gifts:

No surprises here, but I got nothing today.

Long after Fircoal claimed that he had roleblocked Commander. I suggest that anyone who can disprove this steps up, but I suppose people would already have done that.

I'd be interested, Fircoal, why you chose to roleblock Commander? I suppose you'd use that gift on the most scummy player, so can you explain why Commander was scummy according to you? I can see why one would use the bandages on Saf, since only a stupid scummy would turn his mate in like that, which pretty much makes Saf town, but Commander? Why? He claimed the Ouija board, which seems town to me.


I think I'll take my vote off pancakemix for now so unvote. I could be making a case right now about scumarining and diverting town attention, but I only have 5 minutes left so I will do that later, if at all. I'll hear Fircoal's response first.


______________________________________________

Honestly I kinda forget now since I sent in the actino a while ago but I think it was related to the fact that he came up scum on the Ouja board, and considering he gave it... I'm just very suspicious/ into the idea of a mafia cop gifter idea. I thought that he may fit the billzel.

[Skoffin]

Sorry, but I seem to be having some comprehension fail as I'm not quite sure I understand what the last points on me are about. XD Could you clarify that a bit for me?

Aage's point is basically that the scene seems to imply ga7 was not killed by the scum night 1, but rather someone trying to kill the scum. Since you claimed to have received the only killing gift, then you must have killed him. Interestingly that logic would also seem to indicate that you would be town in that case. Did you use your killing power night 1? I think that you implied that you didn't, but we never got an official confirmation.

I received the paper cups, and decided to mason up with aage. I take it that you received them earlier?

Precisely.

So then this could be naxus's gift. (If he is not lying then it has to be.) Now, what does that mean for his case? Since he doesn't appear to be lying about where he sent his gifts we can't use lynch all liars to quickly end things. On the other hand the case is still entirely valid and not really impacted by this in any other way. Also, the ability he gifts would probably not be a huge loss to the town, for whatever that is worth.

Ah, I get it now. I sent in 'kill no one' so it couldn't have been me.
Either there is another killing gift out there or the mod merely wrote it out in a hinky fashion.
If it were a kill gift, it could have gone to a scum or a noobish/trigger happy townie. Although, any townie should know not to shoot n1 especially when there was no solid evidence on anyone.


Naxus' gift was a mason ability (I used it on Haggis). I'm just wondering, but who here is going under the theory that gifts are irrelevant to alignment and who here thinks gifts might be relevant to your alignment?
Scum would want to cut town communication, so giving town the ability to communicate without mafia seeing would be an odd gift to give. So under the second theory he could likely be town, while under the first theory he can still be scum.
I dunno

[Fircoal]

Sorry, but I seem to be having some comprehension fail as I'm not quite sure I understand what the last points on me are about. XD Could you clarify that a bit for me?

Aage's point is basically that the scene seems to imply ga7 was not killed by the scum night 1, but rather someone trying to kill the scum. Since you claimed to have received the only killing gift, then you must have killed him. Interestingly that logic would also seem to indicate that you would be town in that case. Did you use your killing power night 1? I think that you implied that you didn't, but we never got an official confirmation.

I received the paper cups, and decided to mason up with aage. I take it that you received them earlier?

Precisely.

So then this could be naxus's gift. (If he is not lying then it has to be.) Now, what does that mean for his case? Since he doesn't appear to be lying about where he sent his gifts we can't use lynch all liars to quickly end things. On the other hand the case is still entirely valid and not really impacted by this in any other way. Also, the ability he gifts would probably not be a huge loss to the town, for whatever that is worth.

Ah, I get it now. I sent in 'kill no one' so it couldn't have been me.
Either there is another killing gift out there or the mod merely wrote it out in a hinky fashion.
If it were a kill gift, it could have gone to a scum or a noobish/trigger happy townie. Although, any townie should know not to shoot n1 especially when there was no solid evidence on anyone.


Naxus' gift was a mason ability (I used it on Haggis). I'm just wondering, but who here is going under the theory that gifts are irrelevant to alignment and who here thinks gifts might be relevant to your alignment?
Scum would want to cut town communication, so giving town the ability to communicate without mafia seeing would be an odd gift to give. So under the second theory he could likely be town, while under the first theory he can still be scum.
I dunno

Well if you really didn't use it, and in the ideas of how this game would be balanced, I think the evidence firmly points to the idea that the mafia do have a kill.

[aage]

This means that either:
- the kill was sent by Kwan
- the kill was sent by Safari
- the kill was planned on Kwan
- the kill was planned on Commander9

The last line is incorrect. Due to the bus-driving, any kill aimed at Commander would have killed safariguy. If the kill was targeted on safariguy then the it would have hit Commander and been saved by the bandages. So the mafia could not have not targeted Commander, but could have targeted safariguy.

You sir are totally correct. In that case it could make sense that the kill was targeted at Safariguy, since he was a semi-confirmed towny.

Naxus' gift was a mason ability (I used it on Haggis). I'm just wondering, but who here is going under the theory that gifts are irrelevant to alignment and who here thinks gifts might be relevant to your alignment?

I defenitely think gifts are related to alignment. So far I think the roleblocker, the busdriver or the votelessness can be scummy gifts (since that is really would make sense when tracking scum down), and they would also be most useful to scum. The ouija board is doubtful but I'm guessing town so far. The cake seems town, the bandages seem town, and the library card seems town.

[spiesr]

Right, it seems there are 4 ways to stop a kill at the moment:
- doc protection (bandages)
- jailkeep protection (cheese)
- jailkeep block (cheese)
- Roleblock block (rope)

Upon taking another look, there is one more possible, albeit unlikely, way to stop the a kill. Mr. Squirrel's gift was Commuter. In theory at least, the kill could have been aimed at someone who was commuting. This possibility seems unlikely though as that would mean that the scum would have tried to kill the person that they sent a gift to. If they knew what the gift was at by that point in time, then there is no way they would target someone that they knew had Commuter powers that night. If they didn't know what is was then it is possible but unlikely.

Ah, I get it now. I sent in 'kill no one' so it couldn't have been me.
Either there is another killing gift out there or the mod merely wrote it out in a hinky fashion.
If it were a kill gift, it could have gone to a scum or a noobish/trigger happy townie. Although, any townie should know not to shoot n1 especially when there was no solid evidence on anyone.

Hmm, now I am confused. It seems unlikely that there would be another killing gift out there, simply becuase it is unlikely that there is another gift out there that we don't know about by this point. There are 14 players in this game, so 14 gifts. 14 gifts have been mentioned at this point. 3 have been confirmed by belonging to people who have died. 9 have been claimed by separate people for night 1 and night 2. (So for those gifts to have been faked then scum mates would have to have lied together. A very dangerous lie for them.) 1, the busdriver, seems to have been held by ga7 the first night, and was claimed by aage last night. The last gift is the Box of Caramels that causes votelessness that safariguy claimed to have gotten last night. Since safariguy is almost certainly town, I think he is telling the truth about that items existence. There simple isn't room for any other gifts, unless some has two or something crazy. So if you didn't kill night one then it must have been a mafia kill. That leaves us with confusing situation where a mafia kill was described in the scene in a manner that suggests that it was some person trying to kill scum. Something seems off here...

[safariguy5]

Here's a thought, maybe the mafia can gift their kill that compels the person to pick a target (like a SK). Certain gifts I think would not be mafia gifts (bandages, library card) since once scum figured out what they have, they would probably not send those out or just send them to each other. It's an interesting point about the box of caramels that I got because nobody mentioned votelessness before today, so either that gift wasn't sent out or / just forgot to include that in the vote count. If naxus really does have the mason gift, that could be both good and bad. It could help town get some good night communication, or it could lead to town-scum mason pairings. Right now, I'm not seeing another good lynch target and it appears that whoever got the library card didn't get a guilty result.

[Skoffin]

I'm just going to put this out there: Do you think there is any chance that the mafia can poach gifts?
I ask this because 1. We have players that claim that their gifts didn't work and we cannot seem to explain them and 2. Based on what people claimed and what I know from my own actions, it seems either no one has claimed my gift or something hinky is going on