Vanilla Elementary Mafia - TOWN WINS!

[DirtyDishSoap]

Oof on the activity of this game. I'll try and get everyone involved though, maybe we can learn something.

I can report that Fusi is town.

Ok, that helps, but we lost strike, so we have Dega, Darin, Fusi confirmed, I'm town obviously, and then there is Chana, Pixar, Duke and Andrei. will have to re read everything again, Max turned out to be townie, hmmm

Ya, I'm at a loss. I thought for sure Max would flip scum.

What indicated Max was scum though? That looked more like a band wagon then anything and everyone hopped aboard for vague reasons and then Fusi hammers for the dumbest reason of them all. Like, that line of thinking right there is what's going to have town lose.

Hell, Max called out that Doc cannot target himself. This is a Vanilla game, docs never had this power. In other set ups, sure, if it fit the theme. It doesn't here. That's why it doesn't make sense.

I still haven't had time to go over the entire chat, but in my experience, going by lack of participation isn't a very accurate indicator of scumminess. I think it's fine on day 1 or 2 - if there's nothing better to go by, then may as well get rid of the deadbeats, but if anything, scum tend to want to participate so that they're not targeted for lack of participation.

Two things stand out to me at the moment:

Law - at the end of D3, his message that he would have voted for someone was the exact same thing that I did once as scum. He avoids taking blame for the lynch of a townie, but at the same time tries to get credit for pretending to take a position, and being part of the confused townies who lynched another townie.

Pixar - Still questioning if I'm a cop. Still including Darin with Chana and andrei as though they're all suspicious. Needlessly mentioning fusi as no longer his next target. Thinking that killing strike is odd. Ignoring the no-kill on N2. Trying to get Darin to tell who he protected. Saying that there's no point in getting anyone to claim, and then claiming himself without being under any pressure.

Without anything better to go by so far...

Vote *Pixar*

So the vote on Pixar is mainly because she questions your role as cop? You just indicated why Law might be scum for a previous game, but you instead go after Pixar? Why? And we're approaching two weeks of you still reading. I get we all have lives but come on.

Fusi had 5 votes (Chana, Darin, Strike, Trafalgar and Duke) -1 to lynch
6 votes on Max (Darin, Duke, Pixar, chana, i-Andrei, Fusi)

Intersection of above two voting groups = Chana (me) , Darin , Duke

As Trafalgar said i-Andrei was mostly absent in class discussion & might have missed the chance of voting to Fusi on time
But he made 5th vote on Max.
.
So I think I should suspect i-Andrei

Vote i-Andrei

I vote Chana

every thew I want the vote *Pixar* because I trust deg

but something about Chana dosen't fill right

I hate this. This is just picking incredibly easy targets because of the lack of participation. This doesn't help. It's more likely that scum are actually active then to skim for town cred.

Ladies and gentlemen, after taking my long nap and finally suppressing my alternate personality, I am ready to play our game! Huzzah!
First off, I am indeed the worlds greatest kid. My Dad owns ConquerClub and if you talk bad about me, he can and will beat up your Dad and he will then ban you from this site! You have been warned!

Now that we know that I am indeed the ultimate bad ass, you may now kiss my feet in supplication.

I've been loosely following the game since I offered to sub and I can now offer my full support.

Some one familiar with rules and settings enlighten me.

Is it possible mafia to decide not to kill anyone at night ?
Or
Is it must them to kill some one at night ?

So this is a Vanilla setting, and I'll go into more details about it, but typically, there are no power roles in a vanilla game. Just townies and goons. With this being a closed set up though, that may or may not have been changed.

Mafia can choose NOT to kill. The same way we can vote "no lynch." And they typically can only kill at night. Some roles in other games can allow a one shot day kill or some such, but again, this is vanilla. It's a barebones and no wacky powers.

Now, pay attention kids, I just said vanilla typically has no power roles. With that being said, I'm pretty suspicious of the cop/doc claim (could also be scum cop), and I am also incredibly suspicious that Fusi, who basically just hammers for no other reason then just to hammer, gets cleared almost immediately. I'm also really hesitant to say that doc can save himself. In every game that I've ever played, docs never had this ability, and I strongly recommend we treat it that way.

TL;DR - I doubt roles exist in Vanilla, specifically from Raigan. He's old, therefor, old school. He's also a soggy biscuit.

With that out of the way, I'm just gonna go ahead and make a list of current players and whom I think are the most suspicious.

• Darin - Possibly scum - I don't buy the Doc claim, and even less that he can protect himself. That would make the role overpowered in a vanilla game anyways.
• Dega/Dunk - Scum likely. I don't like the claim. You can write off the night actions. Reading some of his posts too, he offers almost nothing of value. Doesn't actively pressure anyone, just answers some questions, loosely.
• Chana - Town but dead weight.
• Traf - Unsure - Can't get a good read. Hasn't really offered much to give me a good tell other than his claim of townie.
• Me - I'm the worlds greatest vanilla townie. I am the best vanilla townie. No one can vanilla townie like me.
• Fusi - Scummy(?) - Whether that hammer was the worlds worst play possible or just a noobie mistake, he's earned a FOS from me.
• Pixar - Town. Pretty active, does scum hunt. Asks the right questions I believe, just has a soft follow up.
• Duke - Town but dead weight.

Vote Darin. He should reveal his night actions. There's no argument about it. Again, I don't buy the roles in a Vanilla game. And I REALLY don't buy the "protect self." That doesn't make any sense.

Apparently you know nothing about Vanilla Town Mafia or their rolls let alone Ragian and the way he runs thing
You sound more scum than anyone in your first post than the rest of us all game

unvote Chana and vote DirtyDishSoap

Exactly what in my post says I'm scum or that I'm being scummy? Because I don't believe we have power roles in a vanilla game, or is that really just a OMGUS vote? At that time, I made one post, and this is enough information for you, that one post, to say that I'm scum? What? Lol.

[*Pixar*]

Darin is starting to stand out to me compared to others. So easily he switches his vote to DDS just because DDS voted for him? Think there might be a good possibility, that scum chose not
to Night Kill on N2 just to throw us all off. And Darin is going along with it to "Confirm" his role to others. For now I choose Darin.

Vote Darin

[DirtyDishSoap]

Uh, sorry, i believe that is my crazy stalker ex.

On another note, i just realized Pixar is a dude. That's my bad

[Darin44]

Darin is starting to stand out to me compared to others. So easily he switches his vote to DDS just because DDS voted for him? Think there might be a good possibility, that scum chose not
to Night Kill on N2 just to throw us all off. And Darin is going along with it to "Confirm" his role to others. For now I choose Darin.

Vote Darin

go ahead vote me out a this point I'm tired of defending myself I am the doc you will see that when you vote me out!!!!

[chanakam2020]

Darin is starting to stand out to me compared to others. So easily he switches his vote to DDS just because DDS voted for him? Think there might be a good possibility, that scum chose not
to Night Kill on N2 just to throw us all off. And Darin is going along with it to "Confirm" his role to others. For now I choose Darin.

Vote Darin

go ahead vote me out a this point I'm tired of defending myself I am the doc you will see that when you vote me out!!!!

Only way to know whether this game has power roles or not is lynching claimed doc or cop
Which one is the better option if we try ? doc or cop ?

[DirtyDishSoap]

Personally, I would rather lose a doc than a cop, but since both role revealed (not that I believe them), it's unlikely cop will live the following night afterwards.

Darin is starting to stand out to me compared to others. So easily he switches his vote to DDS just because DDS voted for him? Think there might be a good possibility, that scum chose not
to Night Kill on N2 just to throw us all off. And Darin is going along with it to "Confirm" his role to others. For now I choose Darin.

Vote Darin

go ahead vote me out a this point I'm tired of defending myself I am the doc you will see that when you vote me out!!!!

Just post your night actions, why is this a difficult thing? The information isn't even crucial. I can't remember where I read that "revealing would hurt." You're (supposably) a doc. That information is more likely to help than not.

[Ragian]

Mod punch

Learn to spell my damn name, you dumbass late to class student.

[Ragian]

Vote count

2 Darin (DDS, Pixar)
2 Chana (fusi, Duke)
2 DDS (Chana, Darin)
1 Pixar (Dega)

With eight alive, it takes five voting for the same to end the day. No deadline yet.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Mod punch

Learn to spell my damn name, you dumbass late to class student.

Sorry Mr. McGoo, won't happen again.

[degaston]

I still haven't had time to go over the entire chat, but in my experience, going by lack of participation isn't a very accurate indicator of scumminess. I think it's fine on day 1 or 2 - if there's nothing better to go by, then may as well get rid of the deadbeats, but if anything, scum tend to want to participate so that they're not targeted for lack of participation.

Two things stand out to me at the moment:

Law - at the end of D3, his message that he would have voted for someone was the exact same thing that I did once as scum. He avoids taking blame for the lynch of a townie, but at the same time tries to get credit for pretending to take a position, and being part of the confused townies who lynched another townie.

Pixar - Still questioning if I'm a cop. Still including Darin with Chana and andrei as though they're all suspicious. Needlessly mentioning fusi as no longer his next target. Thinking that killing strike is odd. Ignoring the no-kill on N2. Trying to get Darin to tell who he protected. Saying that there's no point in getting anyone to claim, and then claiming himself without being under any pressure.

Without anything better to go by so far...

Vote *Pixar*

So the vote on Pixar is mainly because she questions your role as cop?

I listed 7 reasons for Pixar. Try reading past the first sentence.

You just indicated why Law might be scum for a previous game, but you instead go after Pixar? Why?

7 > 1

[DirtyDishSoap]

Pixar - Still questioning if I'm a cop.
1. Still including Darin with Chana and andrei as though they're all suspicious.
2. Needlessly mentioning fusi as no longer his next target.
3. Thinking that killing strike is odd.
4. Ignoring the no-kill on N2.
5. Trying to get Darin to tell who he protected.
6. Saying that there's no point in getting anyone to claim, and then claiming himself without being under any pressure.

Okay, we'll ignore the cop bit.

1. Why are they not suspicious to you?
2. Needlessly? You cleared him. Why would he go after him? Sure, he threw an IF there and I'm currently one of those that isn't buying the roles either. Only difference is, he had no follow up. And then backed out of it. I guess in hindsight that does appear scummy, but come on, it would have made sense to target Fusi for that hammer.
3. I don't think that would indicate as scum. Speculation at best.
4. I'm going to go out on a limb and really stretch this, but maybe no night action was taken? It's not hard to believe, any more so than a doc that can protect himself.
5. I see little reason not to tell. If anything, it would be more beneficial.
6. I'm pretty sure we're all vanilla townies aside from the 2 goons running around. I can look at this as scummy though since everyone wants to pressure.

Really, i can only find two scum tells that i will concede. It just seems odd that you got really, really defensive about it, then waited to mention it later to cast your vote on him.

[degaston]

Pixar - Still questioning if I'm a cop.
1. Still including Darin with Chana and andrei as though they're all suspicious.
2. Needlessly mentioning fusi as no longer his next target.
3. Thinking that killing strike is odd.
4. Ignoring the no-kill on N2.
5. Trying to get Darin to tell who he protected.
6. Saying that there's no point in getting anyone to claim, and then claiming himself without being under any pressure.

Okay, we'll ignore the cop bit.

1. Why are they not suspicious to you?
2. Needlessly? You cleared him. Why would he go after him? Sure, he threw an IF there and I'm currently one of those that isn't buying the roles either. Only difference is, he had no follow up. And then backed out of it. I guess in hindsight that does appear scummy, but come on, it would have made sense to target Fusi for that hammer.
3. I don't think that would indicate as scum. Speculation at best.
4. I'm going to go out on a limb and really stretch this, but maybe no night action was taken? It's not hard to believe, any more so than a doc that can protect himself.
5. I see little reason not to tell. If anything, it would be more beneficial.
6. I'm pretty sure we're all vanilla townies aside from the 2 goons running around. I can look at this as scummy though since everyone wants to pressure.

1. I was questioning why he included Darin, who I investigated, with two unknowns.
2. Fusi was also cleared. There's no need to mention him as the person you were going to target. Not a major point, but it just added to my suspicion.
3. I think strike was a fairly obvious choice, and certainly not an "odd" choice? Why would he say that it was odd?
4. This was supposed to be a noob game. Do you really think Dunk and Darin cooked up a scheme to claim those two roles, not knowing if they would be counter-claimed, and then chose not kill someone on N2?
5. Telling who he protected could help scum determine who he would protect next. Is that what you and Pixar want?
6. Ragian might have meant a Mostly Vanilla game, but didn't bother to spell it all out. A lot of the games you see here are setups where everyone has a role.

Really, i can only find two scum tells that i will concede. It just seems odd that you got really, really defensive about it, then waited to mention it later to cast your vote on him.

Why wouldn't I get suspicious about someone trying to raise doubts about my role?
And after that post, we had a couple of exchanges where the things he said only made me more suspicious. That's when I pulled them all together into one post and voted for him.

Now he wants to lynch our Doc, when he previously said this:

Interesting so Darin out smarted the Scummies by saving himself. Meaning Scum targeted Darin. I'm full on board with Darin being town now, being investigated and saving himself tells me he is really our Doc.

And you are joining him in that effort and defending him.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I won't quote to avoid massive amounts of text.

1. Right, okay, how do you feel about the two unknowns? Nothing? Something? Or are you relying purely on your role?
2. Fair point.
3. I disagree entirely. You have a doctor and apparently two investigative roles. Of the three, none of them have been night killed. That does not strike you at all odd? Even lets just say there are roles, and I'm not going to retract what I had said earlier, but in what world would all three live, several days, without any of them being killed, while the rest have been revealed as vanilla town? Do you not find it more odd that a Doc can protect himself? That's a horribly OP doc if that were the case, and also just amazing coincidence that he managed to predict a N2 kill? You could make the argument "that it makes sense" but only if you know everyone else is a vanilla townie, kind of see where the argument does have SOME merit that strike is an odd choice? How about this then. Why would scum target strike if he was going after Fusi, another town, and just fan the flame? Strike was an odd night kill. Further even, people ran with the idea that a doc can protect himself, and had Max more or less lynched because of it. That's pure lunacy.
4. It is a noob game. It's Vanilla. There isn't anything complicated about it, which is why I find the roles here being waaaaaaaaay more suspicious. Especially from President Reagan. please don't mod kill me. It isn't far fetched that people make plans. I don't know why being a noob means "bumbling idiot." People are capable of lying. Lying about a role is nothing special.
5. No, it would help us confirm who is and who isn't town. Who he protected, say N2, would tell us a great deal. Better yet, whether he tells us he can protect himself. Even so moreso, it would at least tell us who he believes is town and who isn't. The fact that the doc didn't die is just weird to me.
6. Well it's not a mostly vanilla game. He would have least said otherwise. It's a vanilla game. I can't see it being it any other way. Nothing at all indicated it isn't.

If there are roles, one of them is def scum. If there are no roles, and I'm %90 sure there isn't, then this is a pretty open shut case. I see little reason not to remove my vote, nor do I see any other reason for Darin not to reveal night actions.

[chanakam2020]

After looking things one again,

*At this point every one has claimed they are townies (Am I correct ?)

* So there is no real info we have. And we cannot get any thing new by putting anyone to L-1 or L-2 stages.
Since there is suspicion about roles and since mafia actually can choose "no kill night" similar to "no lynch day"
to stage some drama , those investigation info provided by cop also at doubt this point.

* If we lynch some one randomly today there is 50% or less chance we get some real info today too.
( I am not good at that probability math calculation. So some one good with math or teacher Ragian help me)

* If we lynch claimed doc or cop today , it is 100% sure way of getting some 100% true info.
1. We will know for sure whether there are power roles or not in this game. And we will know whether claimed investigations reports are true or false.
2. If there are actually power roles for town existed, then there is high chance that there is power role in Mafia side too.

* It claimed doc can self protect him. So if he is truly a doc there is some probability doc can remain to serve town on day_5 and beyond in case if we choose to sacrifice cop for some 100% true info.

* But if we choose to sacrifice doc for information , then mafia can night kill the cop without worrying about wasting their kill attempt.
.
Considering all above points I like to gamble at this point for some truely verifiable info by sacrificing a claimed power role of town.

I think it is the best logical decision one can take at this point. If we do not do this today , then there is high chance we go to next night & then to next day without any real info.

If some one got better logical reasoning to vote differently today please explain the logic elaborating what we can get and what we may loss by voting so.

Unvote DDS Vote Degaston

[degaston]

I won't quote to avoid massive amounts of text.

1. Chana - I don't see anything in particular to indicate his alignment at this point. Do you?
i-andrei - Definitely appears scummy. First, he contributes nothing, then he disappears, then he's replaced by someone who wants to kill the cop and the doc.

3. Two investigative roles? What is the other one? Fusi hinted at something, but hasn't really said what, and was still a potential lynch target before he had been cleared. Scum had already tried to kill the doc on N2 and failed. They could assume that he would protect himself or the cop on N3, but why go for a 50:50 chance when you can kill someone else who has been cleared, and won't be lynched on D4?

4. I have been a doc who could protect himself, and afaik, this is the first time modding for Ragian, so he could choose whatever setup or rules he likes. No one was questioning that we had a few power roles until you showed up, so why would the scum think that there weren't any, and that they wouldn't be counter-claimed? That is not the kind of play you're going to see from inexperienced players.

5. WTF? I'd say read the f*ing thread, but you already know the answers to these questions. He already said who he protected on N2 - himself. He believes that I am the cop, stated that he can protect himself, and trusts that the people I have cleared are town. Anything more and you're just helping the scum.

6. If Ragian made this an all-Vanilla game, and everyone knows it, then why is it a closed setup?
I see only one all-Vanilla game played here. https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=610&t=230688, and it appears that they are very difficult to balance.
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Category:Vanilla_(Open_Setup)
From that second link, in an all-vanilla setup with 11 players, town has a 60% chance with 1 scum, or a 40% chance with two scum. But assuming fusi does have a role, then this is definitely not an all-vanilla game. So the end result is that you've gone deep down a rabbit hole based on an incorrect assumption.

This is not an all-vanilla game, so it's completely idiotic to want to lynch your cop or doc.

[chanakam2020]

But assuming fusi does have a role, then this is definitely not an all-vanilla game. So the end result is that you've gone deep down a rabbit hole based on an incorrect assumption.

You said you investigated fusi.
So you should know that fusi has power role or not without any assumptions.

Does fusi have power role ? or No ?

[Darin44]

this is a Vanilla town Its a strait up no brainer scum it trying to comfuse everyone

I saved myself night N2 end of story

[DirtyDishSoap]

I won't quote to avoid massive amounts of text.

1. Chana - I don't see anything in particular to indicate his alignment at this point. Do you?
i-andrei - Definitely appears scummy. First, he contributes nothing, then he disappears, then he's replaced by someone who wants to kill the cop and the doc.

I'd say he's town for the moment, just doesn't really contribute anything of serious merit.
Inactivity is not alignment indictive. You should know this.
And because I'm calling BS on power roles in a vanilla game, that's also scummy? What? Lol. Okay.

3. Two investigative roles? What is the other one? Fusi hinted at something, but hasn't really said what, and was still a potential lynch target before he had been cleared. Scum had already tried to kill the doc on N2 and failed. They could assume that he would protect himself or the cop on N3, but why go for a 50:50 chance when you can kill someone else who has been cleared, and won't be lynched on D4?

That's what I'm assuming to be as a third role claim, albeit a soft claim.
A doc cannot save himself. A bulletproof vest, sure, but a doc does not have this ability. Again, why we are even tickling this weird little fantasy is beyond me.

4. I have been a doc who could protect himself, and afaik, this is the first time modding for Ragian, so he could choose whatever setup or rules he likes. No one was questioning that we had a few power roles until you showed up, so why would the scum think that there weren't any, and that they wouldn't be counter-claimed? That is not the kind of play you're going to see from inexperienced players.

Well I don't know what game(s) you've been a doc and had that ability, and even in those games, I'd call major BS. It's a VANILLA game, there isn't suppose to be anything that's meant to outright break the incredibly basic standard set up.
No one questioned it until I came along because I have at least played more than one vanilla game in the past.
This isn't Ragians first set up? I don't believe so at least. He's one of the older players, specifically to this section. I have a hard time swallowing that pill.

5. WTF? I'd say read the f*ing thread, but you already know the answers to these questions. He already said who he protected on N2 - himself. He believes that I am the cop, stated that he can protect himself, and trusts that the people I have cleared are town. Anything more and you're just helping the scum.

Oof. I didn't catch that N2 action earlier. My bad.
Regardless, I don't buy the claim that he can protect himself.
Anything more and I'm helping scum?! How?! We already know he's a doc. How on Earth does night actions from a Doctor not benefit town?!

6. If Ragian made this an all-Vanilla game, and everyone knows it, then why is it a closed setup?
I see only one all-Vanilla game played here. https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=610&t=230688, and it appears that they are very difficult to balance.
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Category:Vanilla_(Open_Setup)
From that second link, in an all-vanilla setup with 11 players, town has a 60% chance with 1 scum, or a 40% chance with two scum. But assuming fusi does have a role, then this is definitely not an all-vanilla game. So the end result is that you've gone deep down a rabbit hole based on an incorrect assumption.

No, I'm going under an assumption that there aren't any roles, and that scum have been leading us on a wild goose chase and wild speculations of a Doc that can protect himself, to the point of band wagoning people. (Max)

This is not an all-vanilla game, so it's completely idiotic to want to lynch your cop or doc.

IT SAYS IT IN THE TITLE OF THE GAME. VANILLA ELEMENTARY MAFIA! HOW MUCH MORE VANILLA DO YOU NEED?! WOULD YOU LIKE A VANILLA SCOOPING ON TOP OF YOUR VANILLA?!

[degaston]

But assuming fusi does have a role, then this is definitely not an all-vanilla game. So the end result is that you've gone deep down a rabbit hole based on an incorrect assumption.

You said you investigated fusi.
So you should know that fusi has power role or not without any assumptions.

Does fusi have power role ? or No ?

I don't get information on whether someone has a power role or not.
Fusi only said that "it's not beneficial to Town" for him to claim. That's been interpreted as a soft-claim of a power role. It could be something completely passive, so I don't know if it would be correct to call it a "power role". I investigated him and got the result that he was town, so that's all I need to know right now.

[DirtyDishSoap]

See that makes sense. A cop wouldn't know a power role or not. A doc cannot target himself.

[degaston]

Inactivity is not alignment indictive. You should know this.
And because I'm calling BS on power roles in a vanilla game, that's also scummy? What? Lol. Okay.

You're not scummy because of what i-andre did. You're scummy because you want to lynch the town's power roles.
How many scum do you think there are in this game?
Three people have claimed or soft-claimed non-vanilla roles. Either we're all scum, or you're being an idiot.

A doc cannot save himself.

You're just wrong.
Here's an example of why: https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=610&t=231449&p=5130837&hilit=protect#p5130812

Actions:

N1
IXS investigated Dakky found him guilty (aka Not town) and shot him.
Ragian Tracked LSU and IXS found that one visited Dakky and the other no one.
Degaston protected self.
Skoffin-blocked LSU (switch not engaged)
LSU No Action Blocked.
DGZ re gular killed IXS
Dakky no action

This isn't Ragians first set up? I don't believe so at least. He's one of the older players, specifically to this section. I have a hard time swallowing that pill.

I don't know that for a fact, but I can't find a game that he modded. Do you know of one?

Anything more and I'm helping scum?! How?! We already know he's a doc. How on Earth does night actions from a Doctor not benefit town?!

It does not help town because we already know the explanation for why there was no kill on N2. How does it benefit the town to know who the doc protected when some other player got killed?

No, I'm going under an assumption that there aren't any roles, and that scum have been leading us on a wild goose chase and wild speculations of a Doc that can protect himself, to the point of band wagoning people. (Max)

Again, how many scum do you think there are?
If you say 3 out of 11, then that's just dumb.
If you say less than 3, then we have power roles.

Just stop this idiotic line. You're tunneling.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Inactivity is not alignment indictive. You should know this.
And because I'm calling BS on power roles in a vanilla game, that's also scummy? What? Lol. Okay.

You're not scummy because of what i-andre did. You're scummy because you want to lynch the town's power roles.
How many scum do you think there are in this game?
Three people have claimed or soft-claimed non-vanilla roles. Either we're all scum, or you're being an idiot.

Oof, name calling, love it.
11 players started. There's going to be at least 2. 3 is really hard to justify.
It isn't far fetched to say that there isn't power roles. Whether you want to call me an idiot for it or not, a doctor cannot target himself.

A doc cannot save himself.

You're just wrong.
Here's an example of why: https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=610&t=231449&p=5130837&hilit=protect#p5130812

Actions:

N1
IXS investigated Dakky found him guilty (aka Not town) and shot him.
Ragian Tracked LSU and IXS found that one visited Dakky and the other no one.
Degaston protected self.
Skoffin-blocked LSU (switch not engaged)
LSU No Action Blocked.
DGZ re gular killed IXS
Dakky no action

You're going to a cite a game, that I played in (left, personal reasons), as a DOC, that ISN'T VANILLA?! Are you kidding me?! LMAO!
I'd ask Strike if I could target myself in that game, but it wouldn't matter because of the following: It's not Vanilla.

I'll one up that though.
Degaston-Elite Docguard/PR giver-heals for both doc protect and poison protect eith the poison protect working two nights. Target would be given a board game themed PR.
My guy, you were a wacky ass doctor in a wacky ass game. This game is Vanilla. V-A-N-I-L-L-A. You can't compare the two.

This isn't Ragians first set up? I don't believe so at least. He's one of the older players, specifically to this section. I have a hard time swallowing that pill.

I don't know that for a fact, but I can't find a game that he modded. Do you know of one?

Not enough to care to find it. More or less detracts from the actual argument being made.

Anything more and I'm helping scum?! How?! We already know he's a doc. How on Earth does night actions from a Doctor not benefit town?!

It does not help town because we already know the explanation for why there was no kill on N2. How does it benefit the town to know who the doc protected when some other player got killed?

So you think, that N2 action alone, clears him of any and all suspicion whatsoever, and that he targeted himself, and he has not been doing anything at all afterwards to save anyone.
You said Strike was obvious, so why didn't Darin save him? Clearly not that obvious, eh?

No, I'm going under an assumption that there aren't any roles, and that scum have been leading us on a wild goose chase and wild speculations of a Doc that can protect himself, to the point of band wagoning people. (Max)

Again, how many scum do you think there are?
If you say 3 out of 11, then that's just dumb.
If you say less than 3, then we have power roles.

Just stop this idiotic line. You're tunneling.

As above, I said 2. 3 is hard to justify.

Of course I'm tunneling. Even if I am wrong about the power roles, which again I find it unlikely, one of you is definitely not the role you say you are or are suggesting.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I kind of want to focus on that one since you wanted to cite it.

Degaston-Elite Docguard/PR giver-heals for both doc protect and poison protect eith the poison protect working two nights. Target would be given a board game themed PR.

So by this logic, a Doc can also, protect, cure poison if I read that write, and give out power roles and target himself.

Gee, that sounds really vanilla to me!

[degaston]

I kind of want to focus on that one since you wanted to cite it.

Degaston-Elite Docguard/PR giver-heals for both doc protect and poison protect eith the poison protect working two nights. Target would be given a board game themed PR.

So by this logic, a Doc can also, protect, cure poison if I read that write, and give out power roles and target himself.

Gee, that sounds really vanilla to me!

I didn't say it was vanilla, I'm saying a doc can protect himself if the mod decides to allow it.
You admit that 3 scum is hard to justify. Even 2 would be a big advantage to scum if it was an all-vanilla game. So there are power roles in this game.
Cop and doc are the most basic roles there are, so it would be crazy for scum to claim them right off the bat.
Which means your whole line of reasoning is faulty.

I'd suggest you step back, take a deep breath, and ask yourself "What if I'm wrong?"