[INTERMEDIATE]Enemy of My Enemy - Archive please

[TimWoodbury]

If hotshot and rage both turn out to be town, then we can reevalute tomorrow with better info and fewer suspects.

I prefer lynching LSU to Epi, but we did learn one thing from his post, he isnt thrilled by my plan, thats useful info. Dont shy from wifom, start fighting back and actually try and get info, your leadership of town has made the entire of town into pathetic players who have given up. Yes its harsh to say, but thats the truth. This is mafia, its not supposed to be easy, gather information any way you can.

i also agree with lynching LSU over epi dude keep trying to throw me under the bus.

[TimWoodbury]

i would suggest maybe giving me the results on both sides again but im thinking what if they give result to me and also night kill me i cant show the results that i got.
@Dakky yes there will be 4 town 3 mafia HOWEVER those 3 mafia will have to kill each other as well heck even if town get to just 1 payer town still has a chance as the 2 non town alligned HAVE to kill each other

[HotShot53]

Do you mean my plan? In your case I'd suggest Ragian and Hotshot as possible werewolf partners. Belly and Mtam were made likely town by yourself and LSU, I trust Tim because of the double investigation results. Mitch and Dakky to me are the scummier players, but I see them as mafia aligned. This leaves me with two options, which I believe could be werewolves. Nightkill hotshot, investigate Rage.

To be honest, this is why I prefer lynching you (Epi) because I am more certain about mafia partners.

Fp'd by Dakky. You OMGUS'd me. That being my first post is important because it shows the timeline. I identify you and mitch as likely partners of Epi, both of you have subsequently asked me to be lynched or suggested I am LSU's partner. You are correct that is the very definition of OMGUS, but it wasnt me who did it.

As a side, it is in our interest to lynch regular goon before seer, as one provides benefit to town, the other does not. We have no idea if they both are really seer and oracle or not.

Fp'd by Dakky again. No idea what your point is there, can you be clearer?

So I suggest that we shouldn't necessarily trust everything you say, and now I'm top of your list to be killed? Why, exactly? I think this is the classic OMGUS lol.

[HotShot53]

i would suggest maybe giving me the results on both sides again but im thinking what if they give result to me and also night kill me i cant show the results that i got.
@Dakky yes there will be 4 town 3 mafia HOWEVER those 3 mafia will have to kill each other as well heck even if town get to just 1 payer town still has a chance as the 2 non town alligned HAVE to kill each other

Exactly... even if we make an "agreement" with someone, they can't say who they are sending the results to, or the other side can just kill that person to stop the results from being known, kind of defeating the whole purpose.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

If hotshot and rage both turn out to be town, then we can reevalute tomorrow with better info and fewer suspects.

You didn't answer my question. If we lynch confirmed mafia today, who will we lynch tomorrow? Who is your main candidate and why? And why do you trust Epi to be seer? We can not reevaluate tomorrow with 4 town alive and 3 mafia, out of which, 2 unknown...

I am the only person in here giving reads, so dont pull that crap on me. Also, i dont trust Epi to be seer, just as I dont LSU to be Oracle. However, thats our choice. Why can we not reevalute tommorow, as your maths so succintly states it will be 6 vs 1 tomorrow if the second player is still alive/uninvestigated?

At Tim, we cannot plan who will receive results as you are correct that it is too easy for them to kill the planned receiver.

Fp'd Hotshot. You and Rage were quickest to side with my plan to lynch Epi over LSU. This could either be because it is a good plan or because you are LSU'S partner. I believe Mitch and Dakky to lean mafia. I see Tim as town because of the double results received. Belly and Mtam are town in my eyes for featuring on both anti town factions kill list.

Not too much to go on at this point, its D2, but thats the strongest case I have. Instead of objecting as you rightly shoulf, can you provide alternate options. Dakky is the only player I actively want to steamroller out of the discussions, as I dont find his contributions to be beneficial.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Merry Christmas one and all. See you afterwards.

[HotShot53]

Fp'd Hotshot. You and Rage were quickest to side with my plan to lynch Epi over LSU. This could either be because it is a good plan or because you are LSU'S partner. I believe Mitch and Dakky to lean mafia. I see Tim as town because of the double results received. Belly and Mtam are town in my eyes for featuring on both anti town factions kill list.

Not too much to go on at this point, its D2, but thats the strongest case I have. Instead of objecting as you rightly shoulf, can you provide alternate options. Dakky is the only player I actively want to steamroller out of the discussions, as I dont find his contributions to be beneficial.

I see mitch as most likely to be scum, I have thought so since day 1 and nothing he's done so far today has changed my mind. Rage or you would be the most likely partners for LSU.

[dakky21]

I see mitch as most likely to be scum, I have thought so since day 1 and nothing he's done so far today has changed my mind. Rage or you would be the most likely partners for LSU.

I agree with you, mitch or wing are scum partners, though I see mitch as Epi partner currently. Could be LSU's as well, but I think it's Epi's.

Wing is actively trying to put me on a different course, even trying to lynch me without voting me... Wing it's a no go. You obviously didn't read the whole thread.

[TimWoodbury]

@Dakky and Wing since yall are good at numbers how would it look if we lynched 1 of the 2 known people today and then went the route of no lynching tomarrow UNLESS whoever recives invetigations recives a guilty??

[dakky21]

@Dakky and Wing since yall are good at numbers how would it look if we lynched 1 of the 2 known people today and then went the route of no lynching tomarrow UNLESS whoever recives invetigations recives a guilty??

Why would you no lynch tomorrow when you have the other confirmed scum? That would be far better option than no lynch and there is no "but" this time...

Question is what to do today, tomorrow we will lynch for sure, unless you want to lose?

[Ragian]

I agree with most of the stuff that Wing is saying. Not necessarily his inferences, though.

1) I wanted to lynch epi over lsu given the fact that lsu from the get-go stated that he was the oracle. Epi has limped in saying he's the seer. And while I know that we shouldn't trust a thing they're saying, there are ways that things are put and timing that makes LSU more believable in that respect.

2) Wing is also putting confidence in the lists the two anti-town compiled so I'm not the only listening to anti-town, but at least I'm acknowledging it. Clever scum would put his partner on that list. I know I would have. If we can't trust what they're saying, how can we trust their lists? That's nagging me a bit.

The main problem I have with it is that an investigation of me will be wasted (ask epi if he thinks I'm the other faction - he claims to know my scumtell).

Scummy to chummy
- epi/lsu
- mitch
- dakky/belly/hotshot/mtam
- wing
- Tim

I don't think Wing is the only one giving reads. That would indicate a very light reading of this day.

---

Now, if we lynch LSU, we may lose the oracle, and if we lynch epi, we may lose the seer (but as mentioned above, I think it's more likely that LSU is the oracle that it is that epi is the seer - it has to do with timing and other things that are hard to explain). Therefore, I prefer epi over lsu. Also add to the fact that mitch is voting LSU and I believe that we have an entire faction right there. However, so many people are already on LSU that we might as well go down that road and figure out who LSU's partner is.

The challenge, now, is to orchestrate N2. Investigating me will be a waste of time, but I'm the only one who knows that so that's going to be difficult to argue. I'd suggest investigating belly/hotshot/mtam and killing off one of the others. Then, D3, if both come up town, it's the last person and we will be 4v2 knowing at least one of the scum.

Dakky is an enigma to me. His actions today make him somewhat scummy in my eyes, but confirmed scum's actions involving dakky make me think he's just lost. However, the few games I've played with him, he has managed to get himself lynched before getting as involved as he is now.

[dakky21]

The challenge, now, is to orchestrate N2. Investigating me will be a waste of time, but I'm the only one who knows that so that's going to be difficult to argue. I'd suggest investigating belly/hotshot/mtam and killing off one of the others. Then, D3, if both come up town, it's the last person and we will be 4v2 knowing at least one of the scum.

I will ask you again.

What will happen if scum investigates town and give the result to his partner. His partner says he got a results and that <insert townie here> is scum. We lynch town, that's what happens.
Example: say mitch is LSU's partner. We lynch EPI today. Tonight, LSU investigates Wing (who is probably town) and gives the results to mitch. Mitch then comes and says Wing is scum. Who do you trust? Wing or mitch?

Also think it other way - LSU investigates scum, gives mitch report, Mitch says he got a result that someone is town who is actually scum... Other scum will know they were investigated and they will know Mitch is lying, but won't tell... because they will be considered confirmed town while being scum.

You can't make elimination based on the investigations just because of they can be fake.

That's the only reason I said we should lynch non-confirmed scum today.

[Ragian]

1) a) We tell investigator to give result to one of a specific set of people. While that is not a bulletproof idea, I reckon it gets rid of your first problem. b) But I don't necessarily see that as a problem per say. Tomorrow, we might be 4-2-1. If LSU gives result to partner and partner lies, we lynch whoever we find most likely to lie. Next day, worst case scenario is 2-2-1. Then we lynch the liar making it 1v1 anti-town v anti-town in the worst case scenario. I.e. no one wins. And that's ONLY the worst case scenario. We could easily factor in anti-town killing anti-town.

Your suggestion (lynching non-confirmed scum) hands victory to anti-town tonight if we get it wrong. The above doesn't.

2) Why would whoever change a report from anti-town to town? What's in it for them?

[dakky21]

1) a) who are we to command mafia? they will hand the results to whoever they wish and even if they agree to give a results to a specific set of people, we can still hit scum.
b) worst case scenario is 4-2-1 tomorrow, lynch the remaining out of LSU/EPI, 2 town kills and it ends 2-1-1 and that means it's over for town.

You are right about my suggestion. But then as well, if we hit anti-town today, tomorrow we can lynch the whole faction and have a normal mafia game. It's a bit of a risk, but I think it's worth.

2) Let's say you are scum, and someone comes up with a report you are town. The one who said you're town is also scum and you know it, but you can't reveal that to town because then you would have to say the report lied. Say tomorrow is 4-2-1 and you're that 1, and the other two knows you're scum but you must act as a town in order not to get lynched... next night you would have to choose between NK town or NK the lier, in both cases you would lose (in first case lier would kill you, in second case town would probably kill you)

[madmitch]

Hope everyone had a great Christmas, now back to the game, Dakky you protest to much, it sounds like you don't want to lynch at all,it seems like everyone wants to lynch the two scum named except you,whats up with that ? Lets get it done guys enough pussy footing around, if I get killed at night it will be worth it to at least get rid of one of then and to prove to all you assholes that think I am scum wrong!!

[dakky21]

No mitch, you're wrong, I want a lynch, just said I'd rather find other scum today than tomorrow. I will give my vote to EPI or Lsu if necessary.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

No mitch, you're wrong, I want a lynch, just said I'd rather find other scum today than tomorrow. I will give my vote to EPI or Lsu if necessary.

Do you have preference?

[madmitch]

No mitch, you're wrong, I want a lynch, just said I'd rather find other scum today than tomorrow. I will give my vote to EPI or Lsu if necessary.

Do you have preference?

Good question , who do you want Dakky ? I will switch votes gladly to get the ball rolling.

[dakky21]

No mitch, you're wrong, I want a lynch, just said I'd rather find other scum today than tomorrow. I will give my vote to EPI or Lsu if necessary.

Do you have preference?

Not really. I'll hammer both of them or give my vote right now to any of them since we're obviously not going to do my plan.

[madmitch]

@ Dakky with that answer now I believe you are town.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

I'm actually more interested in who Hotshot favours lynching.

Care to share/vote?

[Ragian]

Let's say you are scum, and someone comes up with a report you are town. The one who said you're town is also scum and you know it, but you can't reveal that to town because then you would have to say the report lied. Say tomorrow is 4-2-1 and you're that 1, and the other two knows you're scum but you must act as a town in order not to get lynched... next night you would have to choose between NK town or NK the lier, in both cases you would lose (in first case lier would kill you, in second case town would probably kill you)

Why not just say that they are anti-town? What do you gain by withholding that evidence?

[dakky21]

Let's say you are scum, and someone comes up with a report you are town. The one who said you're town is also scum and you know it, but you can't reveal that to town because then you would have to say the report lied. Say tomorrow is 4-2-1 and you're that 1, and the other two knows you're scum but you must act as a town in order not to get lynched... next night you would have to choose between NK town or NK the lier, in both cases you would lose (in first case lier would kill you, in second case town would probably kill you)

Why not just say that they are anti-town? What do you gain by withholding that evidence?

Revealing that you are anti-town (while the report says you're town) will get you lynched and town will have to fight only one faction. If you reveal it, town can make a better strategy how to kill all mafia. If it's 4-2-1 town will lynch you in order to get to 4-2. And after NK to 3-2 when it's still possible to get to 2-1 and town win. You lose however you put it if scum says anti-town is town.

[Ragian]

I didn't understand that at all.

I was asking why e.g. a werewolf wouldn't say that X is scum if the werewolf receives such a report. It doesn't make any sense to me. Please walk me through that as if you are talking to a child. I'm talking about slow deduction here because I couldn't follow your post above.

[dakky21]

I didn't understand that at all.

I was asking why e.g. a werewolf wouldn't say that X is scum if the werewolf receives such a report. It doesn't make any sense to me. Please walk me through that as if you are talking to a child. I'm talking about slow deduction here because I couldn't follow your post above.

After some thinking, actually, you are right. It doesn't make any sense unless they want to night kill town to the very end.

If LSU is really Oracle and we lynch Epi today:

LSU investigates mafia
LSU gives results to werewolf
Werewolf says mafia is town
Town probably lynch LSU
Mafia knows who is werewolf because of the fake report, but can't say it to town, because that would be a town win - both of them would be lynched