Game of Thrones Mafia 9/24 Night 6: End Game Vote 4 MVP

[betiko]

bunnies hasn't posted since the 28th either.

@ strike: yep, I agree, roles seem to match spot on with the character. I do think that crasp knowing at all time who is on the throne matches well with the littlefinger character though.

Zivel, I'm a guy, don't know why you would think otherwise. (IB is a guy too, and iron buttefly is a band's name by the way)

regarding the scene:

Day 2 has Arrived

Men and their muscular bodies, men and their sweat, mean and their armor. They ride to war, they ride to glory, for fame, for wealth. Only a few true Knights ride for justice, to honor those they protect. So when one sees a woman, in plate, jokes may be had. For no woman could truly best a ban could she? Yet a king, King Renly saw honor, saw the fight in her eyes, he felt no shame in making her part of his rainbow guard. Not even a fortnight had passed when her king died, slippery shadows taking down her glorious king. No one had ever showed her such kindness, who did not care for her being a woman. What mattered was her skill at the sword.

It seems in the night, the night full of terror, he could see her plate sitting next to the tree, A sword as well. no man to watch this woman. What good was this to a woman, he shall take it, as well as her life. With great speed she was over powered by the beast, his breathe smelled of death, his fingers icy around her neck. Pushing him back, she reached for her dagger, but alas it was not enough...

show

Day 2 Begins you have until wed july 2nd 16:00 cc time to submit your votes
If you have not gotten your night action, wait for an hour. If after that time you have not gotten it you may pm me.

As I said previously, the scene would indicate that IB was directly targetted by a beast with icy fingers (white walker?) From my understanding, the flavour of the scene could not mean that IB got killed by doing the human shield; there are only 2 characters in that fight. i think that people putting IB high on their town list was his doom.

Betiko: Didn't like that she was "jumping on the bandwagon" Interestingly Betiko says:

What someone does in the first place is try to get a claim before considering lynching someone.

but is serious about only ever claiming on his terms.

i'm sorry but there is no logic in your allegation. Firth wanted to lynch me no matter what for a very minor reason, not caring if I end up town or whatever, and saying that he could live with whatever power I ended up having. His real priority was to secure the iron throne (and he didn't explain what he meant by that). He was not interested in even knowing my claim before lynching me, which is extremely scummy or extremely noobish.
Firth didn't even defend himself and didn't even claim, but I would've like him to do so (I think that claiming he was the mountain wouldn't have sounded right anyway and we would have probably lynched him anyway)
You are comparing apples and pears. I have no reason to claim, I cannot be pressured through votes and claiming would not be of any use. No need to throw in irrelevant information the way charm did.

[betiko]

where is tamburini by the way????????? he has posted in other mafia threads yesterday.

[Zivel]

That, to me reads that the mafia in the game are the white walkers.

[betiko]

That, to me reads that the mafia in the game are the white walkers.

it does sound like it, in that case i guess they got fake claims. Could be a SK and the mafia failed their NK though? I'm surprised there was only one death last night to be honnest; in a game this big I was expecting at least 2.

[pretender77]

God, you know you have done something wrong when you have strike, pcm and neb on ya arse....

I'm very much of a mind to agree with those who show you contradicting yourself here. I could say that any number of people who voted crasp should be held accountable but you're trying very hard to do an about face on the whole thing..

I have already done an about face on the whole thing (changed my vote), I am just trying to explain why now....

I have said my piece about it all, don't think there is much more to explain. I made a bad call and I have explained why.

So I have some flak, lets see if I can get more.

Lets look at the Firth wagon:

Betiko: Didn't like that she was "jumping on the bandwagon" Interestingly Betiko says:

What someone does in the first place is try to get a claim before considering lynching someone.

but is serious about only ever claiming on his terms.
Strike: testing out whether his vote will count
PCM: didnt like that firths character didnt care about the iron throne.
crasp: solely on self preservation.
Jak: Claims that firths interest in the throne is dubious.....
Pretender: didn't have a reason, didnt say he was putting the vote in the main thread, just in the vote thread.
Epitaph1: Didn't like that firth was questioning Betiko
HotShot53: Firth was more scummy than me.
legionnare: Firth was more scummy than crasp

Now these are the best reasons that I have found that lynched firth. FFS people those are some weak arse reasons to create a wagon that just took off.

Out of it all I think Betiko looks the worst, but jak looks pretty bad. f*ck knows what's going on with Pretender, either lazy or dodgy. Strike basically left his test vote on firth till it was too late.

Couple of other things:
Jak: Not liking the obvious fishing for roles, cities and now where or who has the throne, this has been bad in our city as well, 3rd party or scum.
Betiko: He got 4 votes counted on him early day one, then stumped. Stump again today. Is an activated ability.
Charm: Not sure what the soft claim was all about, if she knows more about scum I would like to hear what she has to say.

I haven't quite caught yet what the general consensus is about wht to do with votes..do you vote in here just to show people that you are voting along with the actual voting thread?

[Epitaph1]

Lets look at the Firth wagon:

Betiko: Didn't like that she was "jumping on the bandwagon" Interestingly Betiko says:

What someone does in the first place is try to get a claim before considering lynching someone.

but is serious about only ever claiming on his terms.
Strike: testing out whether his vote will count
PCM: didnt like that firths character didnt care about the iron throne.
crasp: solely on self preservation.
Jak: Claims that firths interest in the throne is dubious.....
Pretender: didn't have a reason, didnt say he was putting the vote in the main thread, just in the vote thread.
Epitaph1: Didn't like that firth was questioning Betiko
HotShot53: Firth was more scummy than me.
legionnare: Firth was more scummy than crasp

Ziv, you are completely misconstruing/oversimplifying my reasoning for voting Firth. It wasn't that he was just questioning betiko, but that (1) he wanted betiko dead no matter what and (2) appeared to have ulterior motives than tracking down scum (he was fixed on obtaining the Throne).

It's hard for me to rely on your list when you clearly did not understand where my vote was coming from.

I think the crasp wagon was scummier than the firth wagon. The crasp reasoning was much poorer than the case against firth.

---

Charm, wtf. If you are onto some people, at least point us in their direction. You didn't even need to allude to the fact that you were roleblocked, just start prodding those you suspect or give us a start. Don't just come out and say you've been roleblocked and might be onto some people and then not say who it is.

---

jweid has been relatively active, although I don't think he's posted on D2 yet.

[jak111]

Not sure what Zivel is going on about, he outed that we're in the same city in an earlier post, which I specifically asked everyone not to do.

Then he goes on about how it's scummy to pressure for information, how does he expect us to lynch mafia? *Random vote person with no intention to get a claim/info*? If so, that is pretty odd Zivel.

You've been against getting any sort of information all game so far. Testing Crasp's claim, finding out if Charm slipped by hinting that she can talk to another group besides city (I still am not sure if I read too much into her last sentence) and even back when the cities weren't supposed to be that much of a secret as Storr bluntly gave us the information when I asked or finding out more about the Iron Throne.


That is FOUR things of information that could be vital to town that you threw out the window and called it scummy to want to know more about. Now I am convinced you're ONE of the anti-town in our city. Vote Zivel for attempting to hinder town's scum hunting by shunning any knowledge we try to gain. Strike Wolf even agreed we should test Crasp's role. You on the other hand don't want town to know anything.

FP'd by Epitaph.

[jonty125]

Voting Zivel for unvoting crasp, when he made less than 1/2 a claim and moving his vote to a 'bandwagon' of 2 people.

Firth has been more active and maybe that is why he is scummier to me.

FOS legionnare

Betiko, strike wolf, Epitaph1, HotShot53, pancakemix, legionnare, kgb007, pretender77, jak111, crasp
Given, day 1, we have little information to go on, so I am not reading too much into this. I would guess there are some mafia in this list, and some mafia not in this list. Note* Betiko's vote did not appear to count for reason #2.

I don't mean to be rude; but it's fairly obvious there are mafia & non-mafia on 99% of wagons.

Dear Mafia Dogs!
Your role blocking was totally wasted on me last night! Ha ha!!

Oh and I'm on to a couple of you now. I'll watch to see how things progress today...but you are warned that you better back off or I'll send out a secret note to the dog catchers!

THIS IS COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY!! If, your role is useless to roleblock at night, and mafia do so, and you know, let them carry on, don't tell them. "And secret note to the dog catchers", this seems highly suspicious to me, but I can't make it work in my head, loudly declaring you're going to send a secret note - doesn't add up to me.

FYI we need to be very careful in the next day phase about voting. I can EASILY see us getting L-3 and there being like a triple voter popping in there and lynching someone. Lets be careful

I smell a rat here, double voters are few and far between, a triple voter, not heard of that one before. IGMEOY pretender. And I don't see how you make the link between Neb has 2 votes (mod error), to player X has 3 votes.

[27ninjabunnies]

Kay, I'm back!
Personal life has gotten a bit hectic lately.

So, I've missed the last 3 pages, gonna reread now. I'm posting this because if I don't come up with a follow post, then you can hold me accountable.

Anything specific I should look at?

Also, the IB kill a bit wierd. I wonder if something he said in past posts was close to figuring something out?
Anyway, look for a followup pst in the next hour.

[HotShot53]

I haven't quite caught yet what the general consensus is about wht to do with votes..do you vote in here just to show people that you are voting along with the actual voting thread?

If you'd been paying attention to the thread, you'd see virtually all votes are duplicated here with the reason they are being voted. Your bandwagon vote without a post giving even a slim reason pinged my radar yesterday when you did it, and that explanation wasn't good enough for me.

That plus your "be careful of voting, there might be a triple voter out there" (which if followed would lead to a very inactive day) makes you look scummy in my eyes right now, so I will vote pretender

I think the zivel case also may have some merit, but I think others have stated it well enough already and if I went there I wouldn't be adding anything except joining the bandwagon, so I'll wait to see what comes of that.

As for charm, she seems to be posting her usual craziness. Can make things interesting, but not very helpful for town right now it seems.

[27ninjabunnies]

everyone else is neutral for me right now. including bunnies.

Ouch.

Also, watch dogs huh? *Cough the hound targetted him maybe? cough*

Charm, tbh I agree with jonty. You saying it was a complete waste was pointless. If it was a waste, let them keep doing it!!!!

I dont really see the cases on either Pretender or Zivel. Zivel seems to be scum hunting and has provided a lot more information that half of the people in this game.

Also, super long shower tamburini. You know, taking a shower once a month isn't healthy hun. Might to up it to twice a month so it doesn't take that long to get clean!

I'm also going out of town for the next 3 days, but I should be able to post a bit here and there.

So, it seems betiko is off the table. If we can't lynch him, do you think it is possible to shoot him in the night?!

Also, what if characters are flavors. I like the idea, brienne being bodyguard, mountain as a bp.

So like, Gendry a blacksmith?

Don't want to give out too much info, but just some things to keep in mind.

Can someone explain the case on Zivel?

[crasp]

BAH so much for being a meat shield.

I would say that from this IB took the hit for someone else.
There seems to be a few on here that are very quick to tell me how little use my ability is but very keen to find out what i know. Jak, pretender being two of these. I still do not know the significance of this but i think it is important to this game. As far as that bandwagon on me i am still not accepting hotshots explanation that it was for a claim. Sticking somebodies name in like that so close to deadline is a kill vote and should have been, I still dont believe how quickly it turned. As this is a must vote game at that point a lot of people were looking for a safe place to put a vote and I provided the opportunity. Hotshot also lifted his vote pretty easilly with a convenient excuse. i suspect there were two distinct groups in there. Those that know the significance of the throne and those that dont. Some will be scum . Firth just happened to be the next most convenient patsy in the limelight.
This is assumption but I beleve there will be at least 1 mafia in each town and they will all now know the location of the throne and possibly the significance unless it is a third party thing. Either way i dont see how handing over the final piece of the jigsaw would do town any good.
Strike wolf participating.

[jak111]

Either way i dont see how handing over the final piece of the jigsaw would do town any good.
Strike wolf participating.

What I am looking at right now is either proving you town or mafia. If we can prove you town, that means that there are only 3 people left in your city not confirmed. 2 of them from my theory would be anti-town.

The case on Zivel, Bunnies, is to do with how he has been constantly saying it's scummy to question things and look for information. I listed off 4 cases of him rather town be in the dark than question it himself. But to restate it.

• He is not the bit curious about the towns and/or any special properties the towns have.
• He has been against testing Crasp's claim, even though the power is only good if he uses it and if he never uses it the only way we'll know if he's town is if a cop wastes his night action on Crasp. (Effectively giving the mafia a night of cop not looking for them if Crasp is indeed town).
• He has been against gaining any sort of information on the Iron Throne. The only people that possess any kind of info are the people looking for it and the person/people that have it.
• He is now today against pushing Charm for information on her soft claim that others even agree with me seem suspicious.

Four things, FOUR THINGS he has been against asking questions about. The only people that do not want to know answers or at least ask questions themselves either already know the information or is against town getting that information.

So which is it Zivel? Do you know something we don't about those 4 pushes for information or do you want to keep people in the dark and "scum hunt" without asking any questions at all? There is no scum hunting available without asking the right questions of people. But with your response to everything brought to the table I am convinced you're anti-town in your push to censor any information for the town.

[pershy]

Hmm -

well, there are a lot of us and too many directions to possibly go in. We need to find one clear direction and the one that stands out to me is what Charm says. But then weirdly didn't back it up. I assume she had her reasons.

There is a lot of speculation on the death and icy fingers. On D1 I read the white walker theories and then dismissed them as GOT is so rich in characters (goodies and baddies) that there are more than enough characters to go around without assigning non descript white walker roles to players. However, the death does seem to be at the hands of a white walker, at least that's how it appears to me and a few others. So this is a possible line of investigation. We have established that character and role do not have a direct relation - so Joffrey could be town and Ned mafia. That would be weird. However there haven't been any mafia reveals yet so they could be white walkers - in which case they would have to fake claim character or may even be provided with fake character claims as has been mentioned.
Also one would think White walkers would have the power to convert. I shudder at that thought and it was also something I considered and dismissed on D1. Right now I am reconsidering everything, but I after the death agree that it is an important area of speculation.

We have the votes and bandwagons as a possible line of investigation as has been mentioned. Will have to double check that in the vote thread.

And we have a few cases being made - Zivel etc. Will consider those too.

And then there's the thing about the Iron Throne. We know that it must have some significance but we don't know what yet. Maybe 1 person does or a small group of people. Maybe mafia are on it or not. Maybe there is something important about the iron throne that would hurt town if mafia found out (i.e. who is sitting on it or where it is). So I am cool with speculating but maybe not exploring that avenue in too much detail at the moment in case.

So for me the most important thing that is on the table at this very moment is what Charm said as she seems to know something -

Dear Mafia Dogs!
Your role blocking was totally wasted on me last night! Ha ha!!

Oh and I'm on to a couple of you now. I'll watch to see how things progress today...but you are warned that you better back off or I'll send out a secret note to the dog catchers!

This gives us the info that there is a mafia blocker and that the block didn't work.

What I don't understand is why she didn't say who it is if she is onto them. I guess she must have her reasons though so I don't want to push - but surely we could have a scum in our sights. Hopefully she will elaborate soon. In the meantime I guess it's a question of going over the potentially suspicious posts in the thread and the vote lists.

@Strike wolf - I appreciated your lists - info like that is helpful to town. But I didn't find it very clear - (no underlining etc.) Bear in mind that anything not clear adds to the fog in the end. Did you count players' posts? It is v important to keep an eye on inactive players - too easy to scumarine in a game this size.

fastposted by jak

[crasp]

As for charm, she seems to be posting her usual craziness. Can make things interesting, but not very helpful for town right now it seems.

You have scum written all over you Hotshot. I mentioned charm in my city during the night for this very reason. She hasnt been herself, i know charm well and it stuck out for me from the beginning. Also see the band wagon. hotshot followed by charm. Hotshot lifted his vote but charm didnt. I have already said why I thought Hotshot lifted his, the throne, but at that point mafia wouldnt have had time to speak. I have also never known charm to bandwagon before. Her case for voting me was flimsy to say the least. Hotshot isnt in my town so i think confirms mafia are amongst, i think we knew that anyway. I have been waiting on somebody from outside my city referring to it, thought it might have been charm herself. For that reason i am voting hotshot. Way too much of a coincidence.

[jak111]

=Hotshot isnt in my town so i think confirms mafia are amongst, i think we knew that anyway. I have been waiting on somebody from outside my city referring to it, thought it might have been charm herself.

If Charm is indeed part of a group I am willing to bet Zivel is with her in some form. It would explain why he doesn't care about the cities, he'd have his group to be able to tell him. (HotShot is not in my city either, so if think HotShot is in on the group, there may be one more out there in the final city in this group).

[Zivel]

The case on Zivel, Bunnies, is to do with how he has been constantly saying it's scummy to question things and look for information. I listed off 4 cases of him rather town be in the dark than question it himself. But to restate it.

• He is not the bit curious about the towns and/or any special properties the towns have.
• He has been against testing Crasp's claim, even though the power is only good if he uses it and if he never uses it the only way we'll know if he's town is if a cop wastes his night action on Crasp. (Effectively giving the mafia a night of cop not looking for them if Crasp is indeed town).
• He has been against gaining any sort of information on the Iron Throne. The only people that possess any kind of info are the people looking for it and the person/people that have it.
• He is now today against pushing Charm for information on her soft claim that others even agree with me seem suspicious.

Nope I dont know anything about those things, I am curious about them, but I am saying that putting all that information out there is dangerous. And fishing for that information looks scummy to me.

• Nope, would rather not as have this information spread around. 'Kill everyone in a tow'n or' convert a town' or such seems like an objective to me
• If testing crasps claim means that the location of the Iron throne is known I would rather not push it. I trust crasp to use his power correctly.
• Again, this looks like a 3rd party objective. I would rather trust the person who has it to not lose this game for us.
• I am actually interested in Charm explaining as stated above. Missed that part?

I am trying to get as much of what I know out there, as my claim will probably be my death.

Jonty has posted today.

[strike wolf]

I checked Charm quickly. I did not make a note of how many posts were made by her at the time (10 now since the game started) but she has been posting. She has not been the most active but she has been making comments. This is good advice for those keeping tabs though. Particularly if the person is borderline active though it doesn't hurt to double check before calling someone inactive when they may have been posting more than you thought. Content within posts can also be important.

As far as the Charm issue itself...I honestly don't see it going anywhere under the current situation. I believe that she was role blocked, commented on it thinking it was mafia without thinking it through completely and probably does not know as much about it as people are speculating. Final read, interested but mostly neutral. Like I said, I may look back through her posts but I don't currently see that much of a case based on what has been said.

I am still more interested in Zivel and the case isn't really so much what Jak said (that's his own reason, I don't fault them except that Zivel has technically asked at least a couple of questions about the cities but that's not as big of an issue for me as some of the other things that Zivel has said) but more his flip flopping over the Crasp case and other factors. As others pointed out, he voted Crasp early and then backed off quickly when a half-claim was given. It came off as him pressuring to pressure and not that he had an actual reason. He has since back tracked a bit saying he wasn't that fond of the Crasp case.

OK, it appears I have some explaining to do.

I was not happy with the Crasp lynch from the start, it felt emotional to me, I put my vote there soley because Betiko was not going to get lynhced and I had to get a vote out. I thought that he would still get lynched when I unvoted as it was getting late and I was not expecting the activity that came in late yesterday. So a soft claim was enough for me to reassess my vote and put it where I thought the scum was. Maybe I jumped too fast, I should probably given crasp a bit more pressure to get more info out of him, I didnt realise how soft his claim was till I re read it again this morning. I think he is more town now that his claim has been expanded.

Technically yeah it was similar to what everyone is accusing Hotshot of doing but it appears a bit more blatant from what I've seen of the case.

[jwiedlin]

Regarding charm's post, she would have us believe that she was informed of a roleblock. Is a player normally informed of a roleblock when they do not take an action, or only when there was a night action taken that was actually blocked?

I am also not sure how she knew it was sure it was a Mafia action. I would guess it could also have been a town roleblock (even if she is town). As such, I believe the mafia element of this action was speculative.

Elsewise, we can count on charm to interject some flavor into her messages, and I did not see anything scummy with her phrasing.

My watch, legionnare has posted twice and is contributing to the conversation.

[pancakemix]

What I am looking at right now is either proving you town or mafia. If we can prove you town, that means that there are only 3 people left in your city not confirmed. 2 of them from my theory would be anti-town.

That requires an even distribution of Town/Anti-town as a given, and I'd hesitate to assume a split that clean.

On Zivel: I'm still leery of the crasp debacle with respect to his backtrack, but jak's list is a list of things I'm hesitant to fully discuss as well, for the very reasons Zivel gives. It's not stymying discussion; It's being cautious.

I am trying to get as much of what I know out there, as my claim will probably be my death.

Again with the things that don't need to be said.

That said, I don't know that this and Charm's soft claim are inherently scummy. It's just probably not the best idea.

@jwied: Speaking as a mod, I'd generally only return a roleblock if the blocked player needed a result (cop, etc.) but perhaps Storr does things differently. As to why she thinks it was mafia, well, that's a good question. Her vehemence about being onto someone but not telling is... strange.

[jak111]

Perhaps we can start using Purple-ish font to do all this activity checking, makes it easier on Strike and tells it apart from the rest of the post.

HotShot has 11 posts since the game began. Last post mentioned of not hoping onto Zivel for now so that he is not voting with nothing new to add.

I went back to look at the post Storr put in our city at the start of the day, I believe I can throw the speculation out the window about the Iron Throne being given to ONE person.. I advise everyone go back and look at the first post in their cities as well. It mentions that it's not/is in the city. This seems like powerful info if it were a 3rd party/mafia win condition. They could narrow down the results TOO quickly.

So the question is.. Which city is lying about not knowing more about the Iron Throne than they claim?

I've been pushing for a bit of info this entire time about it to learn about it, but right now I think there's SIX people out there that know all about the throne. I come to that conclusion with how the first post is worded in our city. Every other city without the throne, go do the same and see if you come to the same conclusion.

Crasp, can you confirm or deny my suspicions?

FP'd by PCM.

[StorrZerg]

Day 2
Current Vote Count
Voting ends 7/2 @ 16:00 CC time

betiko (0): Mudpuppy
Zivel (2): jak111, jonty125
pretender77 (1): HotShot53
HotShot53 (1): crasp

No Lynch (2): boonetown, pershy

Currently Zivel is set to be lynched.

People who have yet to cast vote. (15)
Jmac1026, pancakemix, Nebuchadnezer, Strike Wolf, charm, Zivel, Army of God, kgb007, Epitaph1, jwiedlin, legionnare, pretender77, Mtamburini, betiko, 27ninjabunnies

Currently less than 48 hours till end of day.

[Nebuchadnezer]

So are we not going to talk a bit more about IB's death, was it a direct hit? If so who did IB clash with in D1.

Or was IB's death from protecting someone? In that case who do we think that IB would have protected and why was that person targeted?

Pretender has posted today.

I don't like this line of questioning. It does nothing but lead us down a WIFOM conversation. Iron is dead. Whether it was direct or doing his job, it doesn't matter. As he stated, he was a "meat shield" and was meant to die protecting others. While we will miss his experience, the rest doesn't matter.

alright, i have voted no lynch just to be on the safe side until i have a chance to finish filtering a few people's posts. i still think hotshot might be the lynch but i'd like to make a better case after i get some more information.

when it comes to IB, i will say that i have a hunch i was the save, but that might just be me being full of myself. if it wasnt me, i have no idea who else i could have been. might not have been a save at all and could have just been targeted by the mafia. i brought up a question in my city QT that no one has bothered to respond to yet. i dont want to out my question here just yet tho.

Quite honestly Boone...you would be pretty low on Iron's list. You're a newb here. He's not giving away his experience to protect a newb. My bet would be Strike or another similar vet. No offense intended.

That, to me reads that the mafia in the game are the white walkers.

it does sound like it, in that case i guess they got fake claims. Could be a SK and the mafia failed their NK though? I'm surprised there was only one death last night to be honnest; in a game this big I was expecting at least 2.

Agreed. This many people and only one death...but I'm happy with that result. Too many possibilities to start speculating why.

My vote stays on Zivel at this point. Personally, I'd like to see more voting earlier...otherwise, we end up in the situation we did yesterday. We get a claim and then a mass rush onto another player with no time to react. These short time frames become very unwieldy for a large number of players.

Jak is active and posting...

FPd by Storr...forgot to vote in the vote thread...derp...done now.

[strike wolf]

Yeah. I hate to do this knowing I am going to be mostly away but I like the Zivel case and I need to get a vote out there.

[jak111]

My vote stays until we get a claim. Others may let off before then, but I'm pretty certain on this one.