Civilization Mafia - Town Victory!

[nagerous]

@nag
did you just claim doc? why would you do that?

Because Nag is not very good at mafia?

However, can you explain what leads you to believe that there is a Doc in the game D1?

not sure what you mean?

This was Benga's initial answer again to your question FYI. Seems scummy as f*ck personally.

Aage here is a small clue, why do I think this is 'scummy as f*ck'?

[nagerous]

And you're skimming benga said a few times he had played games with dakky before, so he would've known what a doctor is.

[Skoffin]

I don't think there is enough of a case on Aage, personally.
* As he is someone who have played Civ before, it's perfectly reasonable that he would consider barbarians as a potential enemy just as I had considered the possibility. This does not indicate whether he is scum that had knowledge on barbarians. Otherwise I am scummy for the same reason.
* If the argument on Aage hinges on him not having thought Benga scummy enough to vote him then, again, I am scummy for the exact same reasons as I also did not vote for Benga. As I am not scum I certainly cannot punish someone for doing the same thing I did.
If we are going to mention a particular point as to why someone is scum then I think it's prudent to highlight why other people are not scummy for having done the same thing.
and yeah, I don't see any reasons for why a scum aage would go to kill Wing - it seems an unnecessary way to draw attention to himself today. Sure, Aage *could* be scum but I don't think the reasons presented thus far make a good case for it. I think the case on Hotshot is better than the one on Aage.

[nagerous]

I actually disagree with those who consider aage scummy for mentioning barbarians. I was in agreement that barbarians were the likely scum just from my experiences playing civilisation. I also think there is no correlation with his post and the wing death. I consider these reasons weak ones for voting him and play no basis in my vote.

I am mostly in agreement in regards to the arguments laid on against hotshot too, my gut it just telling me that if he (or rodion) had been partners with benga, they would have just gone ahead and thrown him under the bus - and not played the way they did, it would have been a very high risk strategy as they would know they would be under pressure the next game day - unless it is a double bluff.

As you said in your other post there were a few people who didn't have a reaction to the benga voting at all and that would be a good place to look - and aage is one so I see no harm in pushing some pressure points there, he has already shown me that he is wound up about the success of the benga Lynch and is missing the point of the scum tells benga made.

[Ragian]

I like what Nag just posted in relation to the hotshot wagon. I don't agree on the aage vote, though. Even despite aage's lack of participation. Seems weird to look for inactives when an actual case is on the block (whether you like the case or not).

Following this on the phone, I'm not sure if hotshot has responded to the accusations or not yet?

Who are you thinking is scum at this moment? You seemed to be suspicious of Samlen day one and Ga7 but haven't heard too much from you this day phase.

I don't know if I think anyone is scum as such. As stated a fair few times, I'm weary of Skittles!. I've not made my mind up on Samlen, but Ga7 was adamant that Benga was scum (I think), so he's off my list as of now.

Just back from a 14 hour drive home from Austria, so I'm sort of cooked in the head. From what I have read, though, I cannot get behind the Aage-train. His absence smelled of actual absence rather than scumarining. It's not that he avoided the Benga lynch, he never turned up. While that's not a flattering trait, it happens with real life and all that.

[aage]

I am mostly in agreement in regards to the arguments laid on against hotshot too, my gut it just telling me that if he (or rodion) had been partners with benga, they would have just gone ahead and thrown him under the bus - and not played the way they did, it would have been a very high risk strategy as they would know they would be under pressure the next game day - unless it is a double bluff..

This I agree with. Considering the lynch countdown mechanic MM introduced, it would've been the act of a naive optimist to believe Benga would survive the wagon. Hotshot is not that. I'd be more interested to hear from DJFireside, honestly. Subbed in with the vaguest of posts, then proceeded to hammer Benga at the last possible moment with what was basically a bandwagon vote. What's more, Benga would've been lynched regardless of DJ's vote. I'd rather look for scum among the latecomers to the Benga wagon than the abstainers.



Not sure why you're still so adamant on wasting your vote on me Nag. Only half the people in the game voted for Benga, clearly the other half didn't believe the argument either. Why focus on me?

[madmitch]

I am feeling a little frisky ,there wouldn't be a streetwalker out there would there?

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

8 to lynch today, Sunday, I believe.

[strike wolf]

So my migraine has subsided. Will reread a couple people tonight. I still put a bit more faith in the Hotshot case than Aage or Skittles right now since I don't feel like Benga was as obviously doomed as made out with a few stating that they might be persuaded to go with a different case if one showed up that was better and some pushing the angle that he might be a third party but that's not as bad as lynching possible town. As I stated earlier Hotshot isn't always as quick to bus as he himself claims.

[madmitch]

Where is everyone are we going to let the days go buy and the vote count get lower or is there another choice besides Hot Shot?

[aage]

Hotshot isn't being lynched, dummy. I am.


Vote Hotshot out of self-preservation.

[Minister Masket]

Vote Count

dakky21 - 0
madmitch - 0
ga7 - 0
skoffin - 0
strike wolf - 0
Samlen - 0
TimWoodbury - 0
Ragian - 0
nagerous - 0
Fircoal - 0
Skittles - 1 (Hotshot)
aage - 4 (nagerous, madmitch, dakky, Samlen)
HotShot53 - 4 (strike, Skittles, DJfireside, aage)
Djfireside - 0

On today (Tue) it takes 6 to lynch!

It is well worth bearing in mind that should Thursday come with no change in the vote, if either aage or HotShot makes a successful Declaration, then it is curtains for the other player.

[Ragian]

I don't like that skittles voted for hotshot.

@aage,do you think hotshot is scum?

[madmitch]

Hotshot isn't being lynched, dummy. I am.


Vote Hotshot out of self-preservation.

Gee I made a mistake your highness, you don't need to be such an asshole

[madmitch]

I declare friend ship with Hot Shot

[nagerous]

I declare friend ship with Hot Shot

Care to explain? Activity here is horrendous at the moment so we are probably rushing towards a potential mislynch so I am all for using the DOFs to extend the day but seems a bit random at this point

Hotshot and aage should both claim soon i think, they will both be -1 soon.

[ga7]

Urgh, I didnt realize it was so late in the day already. Considering the activity I think we could use an extra day regardless so the idea seems sound. Need to reread now
Declare friendship with Aage

[ga7]

Almost forgot, Vote Fircoal in hopes to give him a bday lynch

[dakky21]

They will both probably open wars and accept all DOF's offered for a +4 extension. So what will happen in 4-5 days, we will see...

[ga7]

Random thought:
Where the hell is Tim? He seems to be posting in the other game but hasn't posted since night 1 here. FOS Tim, not only for the inactivity mind you.
I kinda prefer the Aage vote because of where the votes come from and at this point I highly doubt neither of these two are scum, but I'm starting to wonder if they couldn't both be scum actually

On Aage:

* If the argument on Aage hinges on him not having thought Benga scummy enough to vote him then, again, I am scummy for the exact same reasons as I also did not vote for Benga. As I am not scum I certainly cannot punish someone for doing the same thing I did.
If we are going to mention a particular point as to why someone is scum then I think it's prudent to highlight why other people are not scummy for having done the same thing.
and yeah, I don't see any reasons for why a scum aage would go to kill Wing - it seems an unnecessary way to draw attention to himself today. Sure, Aage *could* be scum but I don't think the reasons presented thus far make a good case for it. I think the case on Hotshot is better than the one on Aage.

The most scummy thing is that Aage tells us his reasoning now, way after the fact, in day 2. You expressed your reasoning in the middle of it all, several times. That means his reasoning for not voting Benga has wayyyy less value to me. If he was of that opinion all along, why not state it instead of making a frivolous post joking at Wing? That's not a "I don't think the case is good" approach, that's a "wait and maybe my scumbuddy won't get lynched and if he does I won't be called out" approach.
The fact you think he made the same conscious decision as you and you're town so he must be town is very WIFOMy and nonsensical, especially when you were wrong. So there

The other main thing that bugs me is this:

I am mostly in agreement in regards to the arguments laid on against hotshot too, my gut it just telling me that if he (or rodion) had been partners with benga, they would have just gone ahead and thrown him under the bus - and not played the way they did, it would have been a very high risk strategy as they would know they would be under pressure the next game day - unless it is a double bluff..

This I agree with. Considering the lynch countdown mechanic MM introduced, it would've been the act of a naive optimist to believe Benga would survive the wagon. Hotshot is not that. I'd be more interested to hear from DJFireside, honestly. Subbed in with the vaguest of posts, then proceeded to hammer Benga at the last possible moment with what was basically a bandwagon vote. What's more, Benga would've been lynched regardless of DJ's vote. I'd rather look for scum among the latecomers to the Benga wagon than the abstainers.

Followed by this:

Hotshot isn't being lynched, dummy. I am.


Vote Hotshot out of self-preservation.

Now I know there's not so much time left but voting for Hotshot when you don't think he's scum doesn't look good. Especially when you seem to have other suspicions. You say self-preservation, I say desperation.

On Hotshot:

I know my defending him looks bad after his flip... but anyone who has played scum when I am scum also knows I'm more likely to throw a fellow scum under the bus than defend them, especially on day 1 when it's pretty obvious that's where the lynch is going.

I don't think he is scummy for defending benga, I think hotshot is scummy because he is playing a similar style of game to Indigo League - noncommittal, sparse posting, not overly bothered by what is happening in the discussion. While Skoffin and Fircoal don't think his meta could be applied to this game, I'm keeping my votes on him until I see an overall improvement in his posts and if another lead takes us somewhere.

I am mostly in agreement in regards to the arguments laid on against hotshot too, my gut it just telling me that if he (or rodion) had been partners with benga, they would have just gone ahead and thrown him under the bus - and not played the way they did, it would have been a very high risk strategy as they would know they would be under pressure the next game day - unless it is a double bluff.

The problem I have with all these arguments for or against is that they're just pure metagame. Having (I think) never played with Hotshot, and not read to that extent Indigo (nor willing to), it doesn't hold much water IMO.

Here's the full discussion that Strike pulled from:

VOTE BENGA His statement to to Nag about being a docter shows he has not the same goals as we (town) do.

I'm not sure what his comment asking why Nag (he thought) claimed doc has anything to do with his goals? Skimming yeah, since Nag corrected it in the next post.

Because claiming as a doc seems like a weird claim to make, doesn't it?

Well, yeah, I assumed benga thought it weird too, because he asked if nag was actually making a doc claim, and if so, why. Seems a reasonable question if you think someone might have claimed doc on day 1. Why benga didn't see the corrected next post though, I have no idea.

Yes but within this set up a doctor claim at day 1 would make even less sense

I know what you're saying, I guess I just thought Benga also thought it didn't make any sense, thus resulting in the question. Obviously most think Benga instead just has no idea about the game setup, meaning he is likely scum, which combined with his other statements is possible. It's as good as any other day 1 case so far anyway

I gotta admit at first this didn't really feel compelling but the more I read it the more I see how this could be a real slip up quickly fixed. The part in red bugs me the most.

In summary, I ran out of time and I think we should lynch both of them.

[Skittles!]

I don't like that skittles voted for hotshot.

@aage,do you think hotshot is scum?

Almost all your posts on Day 2 have mentioned me. Is there a reason you're 'weary' of me and keep trying to turn the discussion onto me? I have been upfront with explaining my reasonings and my arguments havent changed. What about me do you find particularly scummy?

[Djfireside]

Im sorry I posted this shortly after Aage questioned me but for some reason it isnt here so I will repost it. Thankfully I write out my large posts on notepad

I am mostly in agreement in regards to the arguments laid on against hotshot too, my gut it just telling me that if he (or rodion) had been partners with benga, they would have just gone ahead and thrown him under the bus - and not played the way they did, it would have been a very high risk strategy as they would know they would be under pressure the next game day - unless it is a double bluff..

This I agree with. Considering the lynch countdown mechanic MM introduced, it would've been the act of a naive optimist to believe Benga would survive the wagon. Hotshot is not that. I'd be more interested to hear from DJFireside, honestly. Subbed in with the vaguest of posts, then proceeded to hammer Benga at the last possible moment with what was basically a bandwagon vote. What's more, Benga would've been lynched regardless of DJ's vote. I'd rather look for scum among the latecomers to the Benga wagon than the abstainers.

Not sure why you're still so adamant on wasting your vote on me Nag. Only half the people in the game voted for Benga, clearly the other half didn't believe the argument either. Why focus on me?

Of course. I tried explaining my first post when I voted for Benga but Ill gladly embellish. My first post was more just a fun post trying to RP the civilization theme but within it I tried to address all the issues at hand considering I was coming in the middle of them. The typo, bengas claim and wanted to raise my own flag that I felt that Tim was being rather irradic and was catching a FOS. I have been using Civ language like Guarded to express this which makes things sound a little weird.

In my first post I noted that I was not comfortable with Bengas claim but wanted to read along a bit now that I knew more on the game setup. Once I was comfortable I didnt believe his claim and I voted for him, I didnt even realize I was the hammer at the time of the vote. I just felt that he was the right way to go with it.

I do see merit with your methodology in thinking that the latecomer is suspect as well now that I am thinking about it. Just as others would flee when its getting close which peaked my interest, I can see why I warrant your suspicion as well.

In regards to Aage, Skittles and Hotshot I am more worrisome about the later two. Hotshot has my vote and I still havent made it back to review everything after their defense so this may change but Skittles is one who caught my eye but I wasnt done reviewing hotshot, which work has screwed horrifically. I will have to wait til I get home to get my notes on what I marked but him and Tim were on my suspicion list and it appears others have noted as well.

I havent caught anything on aage but since everyone else has I will have to review him again. Their activity has increased which is nice and they are a knowledgeable player so will need to check them again especially since they have garnered such votes.

[TimWoodbury]

I'm here reading dakky thinks I'm useless so I'm staying quiet. However with that said ga7 and Mitch ur both suspicious to me right now both are trying to save hotshot or aage. Tells me y'all are on the right track in 1 of those 2 are skum. I'm almost thinking it is aage and ga7. Not only did ga declare friend with aage right after Mitch but he also put a vote on someone who has no votes at all just for the hell of it.

[TimWoodbury]

With that said vote aage ga this would be on you but I don't see you being lynched so I'm going with your buddy

[HotShot53]

I declare friend ship with Hot Shot

Friends are always good things to have, I accept

Since no-one agreed with me about the case on skittles, and since at this point it's me or aage... the case on him could be true, while I know what I am, so I'll unvote, vote aage