Lord of the Rings mafia [Town wins]

[Suspect101]

I understand your way of thinking, people.
let me try to comfort youguys.

the only reason nagerous voted on me was because I put a FoS on pmchugh (who is, like Day 1, still acting suspicious by calling everybody who disagrees scum).

nagerous thought I was scum, but his vote was the only vote on me.
if i were scum, that would in no way feel like any pressure. the only thing that would make me suspicious, would be nagerous getting killed. I would not be as obviously stupid to kill him then would I?!
this may be my first game of mafia, but I know the principle of action-reaction.

anybody would have wanted to kill nagerous; he is an experienced Mafia player, and killing him might force a lynch on the one nagerous was voting on: karelpietertje.

don't give the bandits this double-kill because we will be outnumbered on Day 3 then.

couldn't agree with you more.

[spiesr]

and it is not impossible that scum have been told certain stuff about who is who, especially with those frikken birds flying around!

karelpietertje brings up an interesting point. If they mafia have some sort of knowledge about the members of the town then it is possible they they are attempting to target specific players due to their roles. I am not entirely sure how that can reasonably hope to do this during the day though as they unless they are caught by the deadline, the player should be able to claim their way to safety.

[Thezzaruz]

The only reason MM was lynched was because of the deadline. You try to place the blame on me, when it wasn't my fault we lost him. I may have contributed unfortunately, but if we had a few more days to figure out the situation, I don't think I would have stuck with MM.

What??? I sided with a confirmed townie and that somehow absolves you from your part (the deciding vote) in the bad lynch??? That's a load of BS.

Who would have wanted nag dead? I'm gonna have to read back through the thread when i get the chance.

I read back... as far as I can tell, nagerous wasn't really a threat to anybody. he put a random vote on Falkomagno (because "he didn't know him yet" ) and a vote on me.

From the quotes sam posted, the vote on KP wasn't just a vote. It seemed like nagerous had a strong opinion that you were being scummy. KP tried to make his vote sound trivial. Vote: KP because I want to see him respond to sam's accusations.

Yea karels first response to the idea is more damaging with its "sweep it under the rug" feel than what the NK was tbh.

It seems pmc and suspect are at it again. Is this going to happen every single day?

Don't be surprised if it is until the game is won or either one is lynched.

[Mr. Squirrel]

Now that I think about it, I don't think Karel was the mafia member who pushed for nag's lynch. I'm not saying Karel isn't mafia, but I think that nag's lynch was more based on someone else's opinion than Karel's. If you look back on nag in Day 1 he was very conservative with his votes. He never attacked anyone and no one attacked him. He had no real connections to anyone which made him a perfect target for the lynch. He was also a veteran player and a good judge of character so any veteran scum would want him out of the picture.

While looking back, I find that he was right about both clive and MM. In both situations he withheld his vote and in clive's case he said how "that bandwagon stunk like the scum you find in the pipes underneath a kitchen sink." Looking back, PMC advocated both of those lynches. And after clive was relieved, PMC quickly changed his attitude and tried to use the situation to make himself seem innocent as well (since one of our main points was that they always agreed with each other). I think I was wrong in voting for MM over PMC. I think PMC could easily have pushed for nag's lynch at night, knowing that when day came around again, nag would have been watching him closely. And now, on day 2 he is trying to protect the townie (me) who accidentally helped him on day 1.

I'm not 100% sure of all this, but I'd like to see what you all think of it and how PMC answers.

[Suspect101]

I think that a lot of us are making mistakes.

There are thirteen people left in this game and only about 8 of us are talking consistantly.

[pmchugh]

Now that I think about it, I don't think Karel was the mafia member who pushed for nag's lynch. I'm not saying Karel isn't mafia, but I think that nag's lynch was more based on someone else's opinion than Karel's. If you look back on nag in Day 1 he was very conservative with his votes. He never attacked anyone and no one attacked him. He had no real connections to anyone which made him a perfect target for the lynch. He was also a veteran player and a good judge of character so any veteran scum would want him out of the picture.

While looking back, I find that he was right about both clive and MM. In both situations he withheld his vote and in clive's case he said how "that bandwagon stunk like the scum you find in the pipes underneath a kitchen sink." Looking back, PMC advocated both of those lynches. And after clive was relieved, PMC quickly changed his attitude and tried to use the situation to make himself seem innocent as well (since one of our main points was that they always agreed with each other). I think I was wrong in voting for MM over PMC. I think PMC could easily have pushed for nag's lynch at night, knowing that when day came around again, nag would have been watching him closely. And now, on day 2 he is trying to protect the townie (me) who accidentally helped him on day 1.

I'm not 100% sure of all this, but I'd like to see what you all think of it and how PMC answers.

I wasn't exactly into the clive lynch, I was kind of convinced into it due to a lack of anything else gonig on, it was day 1. Just cause I push my points harder than others doesn't neccesarily mean i am more sure than others.

And I take it you mean nag's kill not lynch. As I have said to everyone else trying to speculate over the mafia kill it doesn't help, there are a lot of reasons to kill someone and I have never yet seen a succesful lynch from who was killed the previous night. After all if it put you under suspicioun your not likely to do it.

Does no-one notice the little partnership between speisr and suspect today, so many of you were convinced this was scummy yesterday, in fact was it not started by suspect himself? If he thinks scum do it, then what's to suggest he doesn't do it when scum? And speisr was on MM's case yesterday and is now on mine for being on MM's That's a bit contradictory and smells of a scum member just looking for an easy lynch.

[Suspect101]

Now that I think about it, I don't think Karel was the mafia member who pushed for nag's lynch. I'm not saying Karel isn't mafia, but I think that nag's lynch was more based on someone else's opinion than Karel's. If you look back on nag in Day 1 he was very conservative with his votes. He never attacked anyone and no one attacked him. He had no real connections to anyone which made him a perfect target for the lynch. He was also a veteran player and a good judge of character so any veteran scum would want him out of the picture.

While looking back, I find that he was right about both clive and MM. In both situations he withheld his vote and in clive's case he said how "that bandwagon stunk like the scum you find in the pipes underneath a kitchen sink." Looking back, PMC advocated both of those lynches. And after clive was relieved, PMC quickly changed his attitude and tried to use the situation to make himself seem innocent as well (since one of our main points was that they always agreed with each other). I think I was wrong in voting for MM over PMC. I think PMC could easily have pushed for nag's lynch at night, knowing that when day came around again, nag would have been watching him closely. And now, on day 2 he is trying to protect the townie (me) who accidentally helped him on day 1.

I'm not 100% sure of all this, but I'd like to see what you all think of it and how PMC answers.

I wasn't exactly into the clive lynch, I was kind of convinced into it due to a lack of anything else gonig on, it was day 1. Just cause I push my points harder than others doesn't neccesarily mean i am more sure than others.

And I take it you mean nag's kill not lynch. As I have said to everyone else trying to speculate over the mafia kill it doesn't help, there are a lot of reasons to kill someone and I have never yet seen a succesful lynch from who was killed the previous night. After all if it put you under suspicioun your not likely to do it.

Does no-one notice the little partnership between speisr and suspect today, so many of you were convinced this was scummy yesterday, in fact was it not started by suspect himself? If he thinks scum do it, then what's to suggest he doesn't do it when scum? And speisr was on MM's case yesterday and is now on mine for being on MM's That's a bit contradictory and smells of a scum member just looking for an easy lynch.

uhmmm........how was it started by me? and exactly what is "it" that we are talking about? please explain yourself more so you can continue to trip over the straw men you are building. I think that PMC is a Lyncher and I am his target.

[pmchugh]

I got a better one for ya:

Anyone notice how all of Clive's votes (except for the first random) have been for people on the PMC bandwagon. Not to mention that all in his posts all he does is defend PMC and not looking for any other scum or reasons except for those on the PMC bandwagon? Kinda odd that he is not looking anywhere else and just jumping on people who voted for PMC, who was acting scummy.

He vote Iliad:

I don't like this wagon on Pmc. His deductions were logical.

Unvote;
Vote: Iliad

he only unvoted iliad once iliad told him it was a joke vote and voted for the only person left voting for PMC:

It is day 1. We have nothing to go on. If you are the person acting scummy, even a little bit, you will get the votes and the questions thrown your way.

Not true, just because it's D1 doesn't mean there's nothing to go on. And I really hate your second sentence. D1 is not just about a random lynch. You also seem to imply that only one person can act scummy on D1, which doesn't make any sense.

I find your attempt to generate a wagon on Pmc scummy, I fail to see how speculating on what we might be up against is a scumtell.

Iliad: It didn't sound much like a joke vote, but i'll let it go.

Unvote;
Vote: Suspect

... he did not like iliads joke vote.......

[bquote]It is day 1. We have nothing to go on. If you are the person acting scummy, even a little bit, you will get the votes and the questions thrown your way.[/bquote]

Not true, just because it's D1 doesn't mean there's nothing to go on. And I really hate your second sentence. D1 is not just about a random lynch. You also seem to imply that only one person can act scummy on D1, which doesn't make any sense.

No, we do have nothing to go on, no sound proof of anything, if you know something we don't please do tell. I never said it was about a random lynch nor did I imply that only one person could be scummy. I said PMC looks the scummiest, meaning there could be more than one. He is the one I want to pressure, because as he even admits, he has been acting scummy. Voting for someone does not mean you want to lynch them, it can also mean that you want to pressure them into proving they are innocent, which I am doing.

I find your attempt to generate a wagon on Pmc scummy, I fail to see how speculating on what we might be up against is a scumtell.

Why do you find my "attempt to bandwagon PMC" scummy? Any reasons or just to try and pass the blame? The reason you do not know why speculating is a scum tell is because you do not read or your are scum and trying make PMC look innocent. If you read all the posts more than just me explained why speculating is scummy.

Vote Clive

He still has not answered my questions, probably because he still is only skimming. Not only this he seems to be lurking.

I am not lurking, I have posted eveyday.

Why do you find my "attempt to bandwagon PMC" scummy?

Because I think the way he speculated on the setup was a pro-town thing to do, and you are isisting it's scummy and pushing a bandwagon on him for it.

Any reasons or just to try and pass the blame?

This has been my stance from the get go, I have no blame to shift.

The reason you do not know why speculating is a scum tell is because you do not read or your are scum and trying make PMC look innocent.

No, it's because i'm town, and i've tried to think about it logically.

If you read all the posts more than just me explained why speculating is scummy.

I strongly disagree.

However, now that i've read more, i'm starting to feel you're actually a misguided townie.

Unvote

he only unvoted for me once I took my vote off PMC and put it on him.

This guy has posted nothing except for posts defending pmc and trying to make anyone voting for him look scummy. He either has a man crush on PMC or knows something we do not.

Any you claim that you didn't start a wagon on clive

I think that PMC is a Lyncher and I am his target.

I wouldn't have went after you since day 1, I'm not that stupid. If I was a lyncher why would I go after MM like I did?

[Suspect101]

when did i claim that I did not start a bandwagon on clive?

[pmchugh]

uhmmm........how was it started by me?

[Suspect101]

uhmmm........how was it started by me?

maybe you should have included the line right after that one, or at least read it, so you would know I had no clue what you were talking about:

and exactly what is "it" that we are talking about?

This is what you wrote:

I wasn't exactly into the clive lynch, I was kind of convinced into it due to a lack of anything else gonig on, it was day 1. Just cause I push my points harder than others doesn't neccesarily mean i am more sure than others.

And I take it you mean nag's kill not lynch. As I have said to everyone else trying to speculate over the mafia kill it doesn't help, there are a lot of reasons to kill someone and I have never yet seen a succesful lynch from who was killed the previous night. After all if it put you under suspicioun your not likely to do it.

Does no-one notice the little partnership between speisr and suspect today, so many of you were convinced this was scummy yesterday, in fact was it not started by suspect himself? If he thinks scum do it, then what's to suggest he doesn't do it when scum? And speisr was on MM's case yesterday and is now on mine for being on MM's That's a bit contradictory and smells of a scum member just looking for an easy lynch.

how am I suppose to know that you mean I started the clive bandwagon out of this. This seems like you were not even talking about that, but the "partnership" between me and speisr. Noone here is a mind reader, you points are terrible and it looks like you are falsly accusing me of doing something I never did. You are acting like scum to a T.

I own the clive bandwagon. I did start it beacuse he seemed scummy, when he claimed, I backed off and went in a different direction, because clive is not mafia. you know that is what you do.

Also notice that I never voted for MM, yet you led the bandwagon on that one, (which you want everyone to sweep under the radar) and look who you got lynched. You scumdar is in need of a serious tuneup.

Also, you would vote and pressure me on day 1 if you were the lyncher, that way you could come back and vote me later claiming that you had good reason.

[spiesr]

Incidentally, where has the elf Clive gone off to? Did his potential powers yield any leads?

[Suspect101]

Incidentally, where has the elf Clive gone off to? Did his potential powers yield any leads?

where have a lot of players go, but yes, hearing from clive what he found out would be helpful.

[pmchugh]

how am I suppose to know that you mean I started the clive bandwagon out of this. This seems like you were not even talking about that, but the "partnership" between me and speisr. Noone here is a mind reader, you points are terrible and it looks like you are falsly accusing me of doing something I never did. You are acting like scum to a T.

So I am scummy because I don't articulate well? And your saying my points are terrible

I own the clive bandwagon. I did start it beacuse he seemed scummy, when he claimed, I backed off and went in a different direction, because clive is not mafia. you know that is what you do.

Also notice that I never voted for MM, yet you led the bandwagon on that one, (which you want everyone to sweep under the radar) and look who you got lynched. You scumdar is in need of a serious tuneup.

OK we were both wrong once the difference was you had time to unvote I didn't. Had I seen his gandalf claim I would have backed off straight away. I am being suspected because I got a townie lynched but the matter of fact is you would have got a townie lynched as well had the deadline fallen before clive could claim. So your accusations about the MM lynch are unfounded unless of course you admit that you were scummy with the clive thing?

[Suspect101]

how am I suppose to know that you mean I started the clive bandwagon out of this. This seems like you were not even talking about that, but the "partnership" between me and speisr. Noone here is a mind reader, you points are terrible and it looks like you are falsly accusing me of doing something I never did. You are acting like scum to a T.

So I am scummy because I don't articulate well? And your saying my points are terrible

No, you are scummy because you are accusing me of things I did not do. keep laughing, when people actually read this your laughing will stop.

I own the clive bandwagon. I did start it beacuse he seemed scummy, when he claimed, I backed off and went in a different direction, because clive is not mafia. you know that is what you do.

Also notice that I never voted for MM, yet you led the bandwagon on that one, (which you want everyone to sweep under the radar) and look who you got lynched. You scumdar is in need of a serious tuneup.

OK we were both wrong once the difference was you had time to unvote I didn't. Had I seen his gandalf claim I would have backed off straight away.

How do we know you didn't have time? there was a 30 min gap from the time he claimed till the day ended. There was time, I think a better statement was that you were not around, but you were 2 hours later to appologize.

I am being suspected because I got a townie lynched but the matter of fact is you would have got a townie lynched as well had the deadline fallen before clive could claim. So your accusations about the MM lynch are unfounded unless of course you admit that you were scummy with the clive thing?

wrong wrong wrong. Everyone knew the time of the deadline. You could have checked before the deadline and unvoted quite easily. It was not like it was sprung upon you or that you did not know it was comming. Which is another thing I find odd about your vote. You knew that a deadline was comming, and you would think as a veteran player with a vote on another veteran player that you would know he would claim and would check before the deadline.

And also remember, you were on the Clive banwagon as well. so I was on 1 and you were on then both, so if there was a deadline for both, you would have lynched both. don't forget little important details like that make you look even scummier.

You are digging yourself a pretty deep hole here.

[pmchugh]

I don't want this to turn into a two player game but can't stop myself responding so I will say three things.

1. I accused you of starting the clive and me are related argument which is true.
2. I can't be online 24/7.
3. Your clutching at straws.

[spiesr]

Okay, pmc in your opinion is Suspect merely wrong about you (and other things) or is he totally scum?

[Suspect101]

I don't want this to turn into a two player game but can't stop myself responding so I will say three things.

1. I accused you of starting the clive and me are related argument which is true.
2. I can't be online 24/7.
3. Your clutching at straws.

how am I clutching at straws? my vote is not even on you.

[pmchugh]

Okay, pmc in your opinion is Suspect merely wrong about you (and other things) or is he totally scum?

I believe he is scum. I thoguht he was just wrong yesterday but this post today totally changed my mind:

vote mr.squirrel

He has been urging on each bandwagon while remaining in the shadows. I have a bad feeling about mr.squirrel and would like to see some pressure on him.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

how am I clutching at straws? my vote is not even on you.

By suggesting I may in fact have been online at the time to unvote from MM.

And about you not voting me, that's intresting because you seem to be throwing a lot of accusations at me. It wouldn't have anything to do with me saying you would vote for me would it? It seems you are either stuborn or trying to avoid suspicioun desperately.

[Suspect101]

Okay, pmc in your opinion is Suspect merely wrong about you (and other things) or is he totally scum?

I believe he is scum. I thoguht he was just wrong yesterday but this post today totally changed my mind:

vote mr.squirrel

He has been urging on each bandwagon while remaining in the shadows. I have a bad feeling about mr.squirrel and would like to see some pressure on him.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

how am I clutching at straws? my vote is not even on you.

By suggesting I may in fact have been online at the time to unvote from MM.

And about you not voting me, that's intresting because you seem to be throwing a lot of accusations at me. It wouldn't have anything to do with me saying you would vote for me would it? It seems you are either stuborn or trying to avoid suspicioun desperately.

you do not have to be online 24/7 to be online at a SPECIFIC TIME THAT YOU KNOW IN ADVANCE!

I am not throwing any real accusations at you, I am saying that things you are doing look pretty scummy and you are making yourself look even worse. All I am doing is defending myself and pointing out the obvious flaws in your argument. Just becuase you say "look here comes your vote on me" does not mean I am going to vote for you or against you. I am not avoiding anything. I have answered all your petty accusations not hidding from a one, you know why, cause I have nothing to hide. The only accusation that I can claim is that I really think that you are a lyncher. You have a hard on for me and have 0 reason.

vote mr.squirrel

He has been urging on each bandwagon while remaining in the shadows. I have a bad feeling about mr.squirrel and would like to see some pressure on him.

This was the post that changed your mind? really, hum, seems really scummy to go after a person I find suspicious.... right

[Falkomagno]

iIn this little parenthesis between that argue between pmc and suspect i would like to back on track., and say something

We are just having this 2 veridical information:
1. The NK of Nag.
2. The lynch of Gandalf, (and the players in the BW)


About the fact No. 1, I just can conclude that in the scum there is one or more than one experienced player who knows the potential danger from nag. Myself, I have to acknoledge that I don't even know nag, and in his brief permanence here didn't make me think that he would be such a great player that people are talking. But, this information is almost worthless.

About the fact No. 2 i think that we have more useful information here. Let's see that arguments given by pmc and Mr squirel about it:

You are accusing people based on the fact they lynched a townie (minister masket) but there are many reasons why we may have voted for him and it doesn't neccesarily mean one or two of us is scum. Espicially when scum didn't need to vote for him to get a townie lynched.

The only reason MM was lynched was because of the deadline.

I respond this.
@pmchug. Maybe, but its so more probable that at least one of the bandwagon is scum (I'm not saying that all of them). this is a better place to start to investigate and to apply pressure, and better for sure than try to ignore the fact that gandalf was lynched. To say that scum didn't need vote for him is not true, and not helpful as well.

@Mr Squirrel. no. He was lynched because he had 4 votes, that was one more than any other one


Suspect has saying something interesting:

you do not have to be online 24/7 to be online at a SPECIFIC TIME THAT YOU KNOW IN ADVANCE!

this is true, and credible, because you was the other possible lynch, and you are a very active player, who wouldn't let this time by distraction. You could say that you did not unvote by MM because your head would be instead, but, you could unvote and vote thez, and save your ass without killing gandalf.


What do you say about it

[spiesr]

In pmc's defense, people have busy lives. Just because if you bother to do the math you think the deadline will come sometime around 7 am doesn't mean one will necessarily be able to be online shortly before that to see if they need to make an emergency change to their vote.

June 6
2:58 am: Stroop incorrectly mentions that day will end in about 26 hours.
June 7
3:03 am: Stroop says that there are 4 hours left. (MM has 4 votes, pmc has 4, Thezz has 2.)
6:19 am: MM posts Gandalf's picture.
6:49 am: Clive posts urging other players to switch their votes to Thezz in an attempt to save MM.
6:52 am: Iliad changes his vote from pmc to Thezz
7:03 am: MM lynched

This brings up an interesting point. If Clive Iliad really wanted to save MM from being lynched shouldn't they have placed their votes on the person with the next highest number of votes, in this case pmc? If Clive had switched his vote from Thezzz to pmc and Iliad had left his vote there then pmc would have had 5 votes and been lynched over MM's 4 votes. Wouldn't lynching an unknown be possibly better than lynching Gandalf? This is more suspicious as it seems acted like it would be better as they tried to lynch the unknown of Thezzz to save MM.
Since Clive is Legolas though, I am don't think I can really question his townness, but I do wonder about his reasoning in that situation. It would be nice to hear from him...

[Stroop]

=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=
Vote count

Mr. Squirrel - 3 (Suspect101, spiesr, karelpietertje)
karelpietertje - 2 (sam_levi_11, AceArtemis)
Suspect101 - 1 (pmchugh)

Not voting: Simon Viavant, william18, Mr. Squirrel, Thezzaruz, Iliad, Clive, Falkomagno

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Day 2 will end approximately 249 hours from now
=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=

[pmchugh]

About the fact No. 2 i think that we have more useful information here. Let's see that arguments given by pmc and Mr squirel about it:

You are accusing people based on the fact they lynched a townie (minister masket) but there are many reasons why we may have voted for him and it doesn't neccesarily mean one or two of us is scum. Espicially when scum didn't need to vote for him to get a townie lynched.

I respond this.
@pmchug. Maybe, but its so more probable that at least one of the bandwagon is scum (I'm not saying that all of them). this is a better place to start to investigate and to apply pressure, and better for sure than try to ignore the fact that gandalf was lynched. To say that scum didn't need vote for him is not true, and not helpful as well.

It may not be helpful but it is true, there may be one or more scum on the wagon but there is no way to tell. If scum were all safe with the deadline looming then they didn't need to do anything or could vote for who they like. Yes those one the bandwagon can gain extra suspicioun but it doesn't mean we have to pick from them, many games have been lost this way.

Suspect has saying something interesting:

you do not have to be online 24/7 to be online at a SPECIFIC TIME THAT YOU KNOW IN ADVANCE!

this is true, and credible, because you was the other possible lynch, and you are a very active player, who wouldn't let this time by distraction. You could say that you did not unvote by MM because your head would be instead, but, you could unvote and vote thez, and save your ass without killing gandalf.


What do you say about it

I do have to sleep and do other things. I don't plan to be around for deadlines I come and go as I please. And that idea is flawed anyway, I could have switched votes to thez and got him lynched. So in order for that to make sense you must also believe that thez is scum.

speisr makes sens but of course clive is cleared already.

[Suspect101]

I think that people missunderstood my post about the time issue on pmc. I am not using that to accuse him, just to defend myself against his accusations. I am only saying is that there was time for him to unvote, he may not have been around, he may have been asleep, he may have been doing whatever. All are valid excuses, especially if he is in a different time zone. If all of us worked together, we all could have stopped the MM lynch, but very few people were online at the time. Hell I could have placed a vote on someone, but all this went down between 6:00 am and 8:00 am where I am and I was no where near a computer.

I believe that pmc is not mafia, but I am not sure if he is town. He seems to be playing third party, which is why my vote is not on him.

@pmc - all these things I am pointing out is not to get a lynch on you, but to try and show you how silly your accusations are. I have not hid from any of your questions nor will I because I have nothing to hide.