[UNKNOWN] Mafia Day 5 - The Disappearance [Abandoned]

[karelpietertje]

Damn, after a week's hospital adventure, mafia is not in my mind at all.
I don't think I still want to play.

[strike wolf]

Well I woke up because I was having a hard time sleeping and decided to check cc...first of all I hope you are feeling all right karelPieter. Secondly it may just be because I am tired but I am really not sure if rodion's case on bleed is the best lead we have today or if he has looked too far into it. Maybe something I need to revisit in the morning lol.

[VioIet]

I'm sorry to hear that Karel

Your health is much more important than mafia, so don't worry about the games right now.

I hope you will have a speedy recover and be back in full health soon.

[ndrs]

This:

I'm not asking for post quantity, I'm asking for post quality. 1 well presented case per day is much better than 10 fluff posts that give you the illusion of activity while saying nothing.

Says the king of fluff. Your post count since the cut-scene is 15, hardly mentioning the scene at all. In all of these post you are going down the safest and most neutral way possible. First very actively advocating for pressure on Nam, and then putting pressure on me, which again is safer then going after the more "experienced guys", as you put it. Very safe.

I'll have to read back on you to see if there is anything worth pursuing.

And this:

Sorry I have been extremely busy with work that I have not really had much chance to catch up on my reading on this post, I have done a lot of reading up just trying to understand how romeo & juliet and the knights templar play in.. if this is a classic then there good easily be a third party, I did some reading and third party could be Paris the prince of Verona that Juliet was promised to before meeting Romeo.

I am still trying to wrap my head a round why Knights Templars are involved???

It must be a mix of several different factions from across the medieval timeline. Although I'm not 100% sure what the alignments are, I'm pretty sure the Knights Templar are town.

But I will try to get the submariners more active in lieu of a better case. It's not like there was nothing to discuss today that would elicit no response.

unvote vote ndrs

Safariguy5 is obviously trying to lead the discussion away from the cut-scene (which is mostly about the Knights Templar) and talk fluff, and is also trying to protect them by saying he's pretty sure they are town.
The last thing is especially scummy to me. How can anyone really believe that the Templars are town? They are Knights! And a very elitist Order! Obviously NOT town. This is also confirmed now with Rodions excellent color catch.

Also, Safariguy5 is doing a good job trying to point us at Namliam, who very likely could be town (because Romeo is). Namliam could also be Mafia or something else – we don't know – but my point is: If Safariguy5 is a Knight, he wouldn't care if Namliam is Town, Mafia, or whatever.

To me, every Safariguy5 post makes sense if he a Knight.

vote Safariguy and FOS at those who try to defend him.

[edocsil]

Safari is wrong as to who is town, but I highly doubt that they are set against the town.

[strike wolf]

I've been prodded by the mod, and i promised him i would post tonight. Unfortunately its nearing bedtime for me and I do have work tomorrow. I will need to do a thorough re-read of the thread so i can make a good post soon. Just want to post for now to say I'm active, and do not wish to be replaced.

[DoomYoshi]

When saf is pretty sure of something, it means he is involved somehow. unvote vote saf.

Also, Bleed, you can give the information if you want. Nobody is stopping you... I am beginning to think it might be best for you to give it now rather than risk an NK and our investigation going nowhere.

Sure about what? Please elaborate.

You are sure about the Knights Templar (who are clearly third-party) being town.

[ndrs]

I've been prodded by the mod, and i promised him i would post tonight. Unfortunately its nearing bedtime for me and I do have work tomorrow. I will need to do a thorough re-read of the thread so i can make a good post soon. Just want to post for now to say I'm active, and do not wish to be replaced.

Yes, VioIet was the first name on my list of associates to Safariguy5. She's hardly posted at all and her last two posts are in defence of Safariguy.

[strike wolf]

I want to make a quick summary about someone no one has brought up:

Vote Edoc for voting himself.

Standard joke vote.

Seems the mod missed my post. So I will confirm again


Confirm

Proceeds to go on a weird tangent about the mod.

Unvote, vote aog

That level of aggresiveness can only be scum.

Alright..

unvote

Vote: Streaker

Not a joke vote...Simply the 5th name of a very quick growing wagon, which is half and a quarter reason for a scum to hide somewhere in the wagon.

Didn't make sense. He's the 5th name of a wagon and hiding. So he's got my vote.

I don't buy this freezie. Where is this unspoken rule that the 5th person on a bandwagon must be scum, especially when he needs 8 more votes to be lynched?

other than this being fairly standard procedure for freezie to pick someone to vote for their behavior on an early day 1 bandwagon, this was pretty weak reasoning to vote for freezie as she does at the end of this post.

Unvote and Vote karelpietertje for not having a vote yet. That and the name is difficult to say.

What Shaggy! I don't know why everyone stumbles on his name. Its quite easy to say (in my head) and it flows together nicely. Just read it like this.
Carroll- Peter- J
or carroll-peter -jay.
Its like the English equivalent of John Jacob Jingle Heimer Smith. Or rather Christopher- William, John-Smith, David-Michael.

decides to comment on a joke vote...

Vote count:

Shield (2) - Iliad, Yoshi
Safari (1) - naxus
Edoc (4) - Shaggy, Vio, Sax, target L-9
PCM (1) - Sheep
Shaggy (1) - Bleed Green
Nag (1) - Campin
campin (1) - NDRS
AoG (1) - shield
Commander (1) - blake
Yoshi (1) - PCM
Iliad (1) - streaker
blake (2) - Edoc, Karel
target (2) - nag, safari
Safari (1) - Rodion

With 25 alive, it takes 13 to lynch. Deadline is May 5th.

Okay mod, I really don't get it. I post twice, and you miss both of them. And then i post big- and that one is missed too. However you did catch my vote edoc.
How is the mod missing my posts- when in every other game he see's all my post and is always making cases against me


Vote Freezie

[/quote] continuation of tangent about mod.

I've been prodded by the mod, and i promised him i would post tonight. Unfortunately its nearing bedtime for me and I do have work tomorrow. I will need to do a thorough re-read of the thread so i can make a good post soon. Just want to post for now to say I'm active, and do not wish to be replaced.

Standard prod response however vio has been on a little bit more than she has been posting in this thread.

And I got the evergrowing feeling that saf is trying to divert our attention on anything and anyone here...

Well do you have a better lead? Pressuring Nam got us nowhere, I then go to the standard target a submariner.

You.

Wow freezie, you are being awfully over-aggressive here, and I really don't think it is for your own good.

Saf presented a fair post- referencing prior issues, but you just respond back with a one-word answer. You could have at least given more. If you think he's scummy, please present a case, because a one-word response isn't going to shift my vote.

Again going after freezie and while I think saf has defended himself well enough I do not find him worth voting at the moment I think at this point in the thread freezie had presented some good points about him that safari wouldn't satisfactorily answer until later.

I'll agree that Rodion's actions are a bit strange. I think a fuller explanation is in order here.

On saf: He might've been pushing a bit hard on ndrs but as he said, that's his typical strategy in these scenarios. Not really worth a vote, imo. Freezie seems to be pretty agressive about it though. May want to keep an eye on him.

Yes, I will be keeping an eye on freezie. I am getting some anti-town sentiments from her. I do think it was good she provided the case on saf, but it does seem to be an over-reaction.

More against freezie.

So what's the point all of this? Admittedly from a simple case building perspective this is fairly weak. I could add that she has defended saf but I am not convinced by the case on saf nor do I see her defending saf as much as she is setting her sights on freezie. My point is that I do not find this behavior very typical of vio as town. She has remained mostly isolated from discussion that does not meet some agenda that she seems to have and usually I see her go against at least one day one lynch based on some reason or another. Here she really stayed out of the way of most wagons. Admittedly she did miss a lot of the shield and other day one wagons, but she has had no comment about nam, rodion's case on bleed, target and she's only commented on saf as much as it seems to affect some agenda she has against freezie.

[targetman377]

I'm not liking target's explanation. He needed multiple days for that...
+1 for the effort of making the case, but saf already explained his reasons for vote hopping. Yes, there is a contradiction where saf says vote hopping is a poor course of action, but there is a difference between that, and actively hunting out the scummariners. I'll let my vote stay there for now.

On to Rodion's posts! Good call on the different colours. At the very least we know the Templars and the lovers are different factions. Blue is usually town, and I can see the Templars as a Third Party here. Given they had a bodyguard, it makes me believe there is a full 'set' of them. So 'probably' no recruiter with them. All speculation, yes.

His attack on Bleed will need some rereading though, I'm not willing to blindly jump on his wagon. There seems to be quite some WIFOM in it, also.

It took me 3 days to post that because I was busy surprising my mom for her birthday. I was also at my brothers house parting before we came to my parents house to surprise my Mom. Sorry i did not have time to keep up on this thread!

your case is about me sumbering and that's a week case you know that i have been active in searching for town and also you seem to forget my post on page 27 that explains why i said i agreed with rodion but thought we should drop that case?

[targetman377]

safi- has been making at of explanation but he is going after everyone he thinks will be an easy lynch. He is constantly voting for people for doing the exact same thing as him. Yes he makes cases but in the very next post he will contradict what he said basically keeping everyone happy and appear to add to the discussion but really hiding in plain sight.

[strike wolf]

Also vote vio because I forgot to before.

[nagerous]

Exams this week so I won't be posting much in any of my games. 9 hours worth *cry*

[safariguy5]

safi- has been making at of explanation but he is going after everyone he thinks will be an easy lynch. He is constantly voting for people for doing the exact same thing as him. Yes he makes cases but in the very next post he will contradict what he said basically keeping everyone happy and appear to add to the discussion but really hiding in plain sight.

When I voted ndrs, I did not expect him to be lynched, I wanted to pressure him into taking some sort of position on the nam issue. Once that was accomplished, I unvoted.

This:

I'm not asking for post quantity, I'm asking for post quality. 1 well presented case per day is much better than 10 fluff posts that give you the illusion of activity while saying nothing.

Says the king of fluff. Your post count since the cut-scene is 15, hardly mentioning the scene at all. In all of these post you are going down the safest and most neutral way possible. First very actively advocating for pressure on Nam, and then putting pressure on me, which again is safer then going after the more "experienced guys", as you put it. Very safe.

I'll have to read back on you to see if there is anything worth pursuing.

And this:

Sorry I have been extremely busy with work that I have not really had much chance to catch up on my reading on this post, I have done a lot of reading up just trying to understand how romeo & juliet and the knights templar play in.. if this is a classic then there good easily be a third party, I did some reading and third party could be Paris the prince of Verona that Juliet was promised to before meeting Romeo.

I am still trying to wrap my head a round why Knights Templars are involved???

It must be a mix of several different factions from across the medieval timeline. Although I'm not 100% sure what the alignments are, I'm pretty sure the Knights Templar are town.

But I will try to get the submariners more active in lieu of a better case. It's not like there was nothing to discuss today that would elicit no response.

unvote vote ndrs

Safariguy5 is obviously trying to lead the discussion away from the cut-scene (which is mostly about the Knights Templar) and talk fluff, and is also trying to protect them by saying he's pretty sure they are town.
The last thing is especially scummy to me. How can anyone really believe that the Templars are town? They are Knights! And a very elitist Order! Obviously NOT town. This is also confirmed now with Rodions excellent color catch.

Also, Safariguy5 is doing a good job trying to point us at Namliam, who very likely could be town (because Romeo is). Namliam could also be Mafia or something else – we don't know – but my point is: If Safariguy5 is a Knight, he wouldn't care if Namliam is Town, Mafia, or whatever.

To me, every Safariguy5 post makes sense if he a Knight.

vote Safariguy and FOS at those who try to defend him.

What makes you so sure they're not town? As Com9 himself brought up, we had Christians, Scientologists and Atheists, all with recruiting powers in Post Apoc. Now, they weren't cult factions, and they didn't have much effect on win conditions of the recruited people. We haven't seen anything yet that suggests the Knights are cult or anti town yet. I see no recruiting, and no NK abilities for the Knights in the scene. I can assure you I'm not a knight, but nothing from the Night Scene indicates to me their anti town. The shadow with the reflexes is much more higher on my anti town list than the Templars are.

FYI: The different religious factions had different colors to their roles too.

[freezie]

So what's the point all of this? Admittedly from a simple case building perspective this is fairly weak. I could add that she has defended saf but I am not convinced by the case on saf nor do I see her defending saf as much as she is setting her sights on freezie. My point is that I do not find this behavior very typical of vio as town. She has remained mostly isolated from discussion that does not meet some agenda that she seems to have and usually I see her go against at least one day one lynch based on some reason or another. Here she really stayed out of the way of most wagons. Admittedly she did miss a lot of the shield and other day one wagons, but she has had no comment about nam, rodion's case on bleed, target and she's only commented on saf as much as it seems to affect some agenda she has against freezie.

I was somewhat worried with her attitude towards me aswell, however I beleived she would be a lyncher more than Saf's scumate as you beleive. She pretty much defended streaker and tried to twist my words against me on day 1..If she is, then we found 3 scums XD

I am however keeping my vote on Saf. He explained, but to me that's not enough. It may be his normal course of action, saying that going after inactives isn't a good idea in a big game and doing it right after warrants my vote, unless we get a better case going.

Now for Rodion vs Bleed:

I find Rodion's way of thought to my liking, but one part of his post is bugging me:

[I had, however, the feeling that there wouldn't be a third Romeo and Juliet character, unless he had an alignment other than town.

Where did you dig up such info? We don't know if Juliet is scum or not, she isn't dead ( yet ). How would a scum character from Romeo and juliet be so improbable? It's a little early to make such speculations.

[strike wolf]

Well I thought she might be a lyncher too and I was not implying that she defended saf as a scummate(maybe I misread what you were trying to say). more that she only defended saf and streaker only as much as it served her purpose to aim at you...it may be a lyncher deal but regardless it is like I said very out of character for her. Not even because she's on the offensive but because she is almost cautiously on the offensive. Every once in a while vio will lock hard onto a case and very aggressively pursue that lead but that is not how she has behaved while pursuing you.

[Rodion]

Now for Rodion vs Bleed:

I find Rodion's way of thought to my liking, but one part of his post is bugging me:

I had, however, the feeling that there wouldn't be a third Romeo and Juliet character, unless he had an alignment other than town.

Where did you dig up such info? We don't know if Juliet is scum or not, she isn't dead ( yet ). How would a scum character from Romeo and juliet be so improbable? It's a little early to make such speculations.

You misunderstood me. I'm not saying a scum character from Romeo and Juliet is improbable. I actually said just the opposite. I said that I could only see a 3rd Romeo and Juliet character if that 3rd character was not pro-town.
I guessed (pure speculation) that we had either:
a) Romeo town, Juliet town, 3rd character anti-town
b) Romeo town, Juliet mafia, 3rd character not-town
c) Romeo town, Juliet whatever, no more characters from this book/play

I considered the possibility of Bleed being a pro-town Romeo and Juliet character close to inexistent (but still possible, that's why I made him the question instead of instantly presenting a case on him), so I decided to question him and likely get an answer that I considered scummy, which is exactly what happened.

[strike wolf]

Here is my one problem with your case rodion. It almost sounds like you were going to accuse him of being scum regardless. He answered like he did and you come out with the narrow minded he seemed to be acting like a Romeo and Juliet character. He answered that he was from romeo and juliet you come out with the theory that the only other character from romeo and juliet is either a. Not town b. Lying and not actually from romeo and juliet. Every scenario makes it sound like you were going to vote him regardless.

[Bleed_Green]

Now for Rodion vs Bleed:

I find Rodion's way of thought to my liking, but one part of his post is bugging me:

I had, however, the feeling that there wouldn't be a third Romeo and Juliet character, unless he had an alignment other than town.

Where did you dig up such info? We don't know if Juliet is scum or not, she isn't dead ( yet ). How would a scum character from Romeo and juliet be so improbable? It's a little early to make such speculations.

You misunderstood me. I'm not saying a scum character from Romeo and Juliet is improbable. I actually said just the opposite. I said that I could only see a 3rd Romeo and Juliet character if that 3rd character was not pro-town.
I guessed (pure speculation) that we had either:
a) Romeo town, Juliet town, 3rd character anti-town
b) Romeo town, Juliet mafia, 3rd character not-town
c) Romeo town, Juliet whatever, no more characters from this book/play

I considered the possibility of Bleed being a pro-town Romeo and Juliet character close to inexistent (but still possible, that's why I made him the question instead of instantly presenting a case on him), so I decided to question him and likely get an answer that I considered scummy, which is exactly what happened.

I am not sure how me telling you that my character was not a part of Romeo & Juliet made me scummy, I did not hide from your question. The only real fact that you have against me is that I was unable to determine the scope of the game like you were. This is easily done for your vast experience to the game and me just learning.

[Bleed_Green]

Here is my one problem with your case rodion. It almost sounds like you were going to accuse him of being scum regardless. He answered like he did and you come out with the narrow minded he seemed to be acting like a Romeo and Juliet character. He answered that he was from romeo and juliet you come out with the theory that the only other character from romeo and juliet is either a. Not town b. Lying and not actually from romeo and juliet. Every scenario makes it sound like you were going to vote him regardless.

You are correct. He his question was not harmful but is answer for the question was a double edge sword,, either way he was going to twist it for me to be scum

[safariguy5]

Now for Rodion vs Bleed:

I find Rodion's way of thought to my liking, but one part of his post is bugging me:

I had, however, the feeling that there wouldn't be a third Romeo and Juliet character, unless he had an alignment other than town.

Where did you dig up such info? We don't know if Juliet is scum or not, she isn't dead ( yet ). How would a scum character from Romeo and juliet be so improbable? It's a little early to make such speculations.

You misunderstood me. I'm not saying a scum character from Romeo and Juliet is improbable. I actually said just the opposite. I said that I could only see a 3rd Romeo and Juliet character if that 3rd character was not pro-town.
I guessed (pure speculation) that we had either:
a) Romeo town, Juliet town, 3rd character anti-town
b) Romeo town, Juliet mafia, 3rd character not-town
c) Romeo town, Juliet whatever, no more characters from this book/play

I considered the possibility of Bleed being a pro-town Romeo and Juliet character close to inexistent (but still possible, that's why I made him the question instead of instantly presenting a case on him), so I decided to question him and likely get an answer that I considered scummy, which is exactly what happened.

I am not sure how me telling you that my character was not a part of Romeo & Juliet made me scummy, I did not hide from your question. The only real fact that you have against me is that I was unable to determine the scope of the game like you were. This is easily done for your vast experience to the game and me just learning.

I think that constitutes all of 4 or 5 games. But rest assured you weren't the only one not sure of the scope of the game.

[freezie]

Alright rodion, I misunderstood you..so here's the new question:

Where did you dig up info that any 3rd character from Romeo and Juliet would NOT be pro-town? As far as I know, we don't know Juliet's role yet, and if she turn up scum that 2 scum for 1 town in that book by your case.

Where wouldn't it be 2 pro-town for 1 anti-town?

Not like it matters...your case just doesn't hold water since you seem to assume one fact that no one should know without inside info, and use it against bleed..

Fos: Rodion

[ndrs]

What makes you so sure they're not town? As Com9 himself brought up, we had Christians, Scientologists and Atheists, all with recruiting powers in Post Apoc. Now, they weren't cult factions, and they didn't have much effect on win conditions of the recruited people. We haven't seen anything yet that suggests the Knights are cult or anti town yet. I see no recruiting, and no NK abilities for the Knights in the scene. I can assure you I'm not a knight, but nothing from the Night Scene indicates to me their anti town. The shadow with the reflexes is much more higher on my anti town list than the Templars are.

FYI: The different religious factions had different colors to their roles too.

I just assumed. From my understanding of their history, the Templars weren't exactly good guys. Basically they were the ringleaders of an occupying, military sect, and as they were above local law (answered only to the Pope) they did whatever they wanted to the people of the towns they ruled. Non-christians wasn't considered humans, and the crusaders even ate them on some occasions, believe it or not! But this is not the place for this, so I'll leave it at that.

About the shadow; we know it to be anti-Templar (from the two scenes) but we don't know anything of it being anti-Town (even though it's not unlikely).

What I get from your post is this: you are defending the Templars by yet again suggesting they're a non-treat. And you are trying to steer us towards the Templar-killing Shadow instead. While I agree that the Shadow is scary (killed 48 people, was it?) this doesn't help your case, so my vote on you stays for now.

[safariguy5]

What makes you so sure they're not town? As Com9 himself brought up, we had Christians, Scientologists and Atheists, all with recruiting powers in Post Apoc. Now, they weren't cult factions, and they didn't have much effect on win conditions of the recruited people. We haven't seen anything yet that suggests the Knights are cult or anti town yet. I see no recruiting, and no NK abilities for the Knights in the scene. I can assure you I'm not a knight, but nothing from the Night Scene indicates to me their anti town. The shadow with the reflexes is much more higher on my anti town list than the Templars are.

FYI: The different religious factions had different colors to their roles too.

I just assumed. From my understanding of their history, the Templars weren't exactly good guys. Basically they were the ringleaders of an occupying, military sect, and as they were above local law (answered only to the Pope) they did whatever they wanted to the people of the towns they ruled. Non-christians wasn't considered humans, and the crusaders even ate them on some occasions, believe it or not! But this is not the place for this, so I'll leave it at that.

About the shadow; we know it to be anti-Templar (from the two scenes) but we don't know anything of it being anti-Town (even though it's not unlikely).

What I get from your post is this: you are defending the Templars by yet again suggesting they're a non-treat. And you are trying to steer us towards the Templar-killing Shadow instead. While I agree that the Shadow is scary (killed 48 people, was it?) this doesn't help your case, so my vote on you stays for now.

So you're basing your case on me on flavor speculation about what the Knights Templar are? Sounds like a thinly veiled OMGUS to me. Fos ndrs

[Rodion]

Here is my one problem with your case rodion. It almost sounds like you were going to accuse him of being scum regardless. He answered like he did and you come out with the narrow minded he seemed to be acting like a Romeo and Juliet character. He answered that he was from romeo and juliet you come out with the theory that the only other character from romeo and juliet is either a. Not town b. Lying and not actually from romeo and juliet. Every scenario makes it sound like you were going to vote him regardless.

Well, I wouldn't. If every possible answer that could come from his mouth would make me accuse him, then I could have simply made the case without asking the question (that would have spared me from entering several people's FOS list). As I said (feel free to read my posts again), if he said he was from Romeo and Juliet, all I could hold against him would be the fact that I thought any other character from that theme would be not town, certainly not enough to build a case against him.

I am not sure how me telling you that my character was not a part of Romeo & Juliet made me scummy, I did not hide from your question. The only real fact that you have against me is that I was unable to determine the scope of the game like you were. This is easily done for your vast experience to the game and me just learning.

Disregarding 2 games that are still on D1 (Pokémon and Quickie), this is my 3rd game and your 2nd. I'm not buying that "lack of experience" excuse.

And, yes, the "only real fact" I have against you is that you were a player from outside Romeo and Juliet that looked clueless in realizing that the theme was more than Romeo and Juliet. That is enough for me.

Think of it this way (simplified version for didactic purposes):

1 - Your character is "triangle".
2 - You see someone claiming "grape" and saying he was lovers with someone everyone considers to be "apple" (from the famous "Grape and Apple" book by this famous writer called "Farmer").
3 - Then you see N1 scene mentioning "shield" defending "sword", "shield" dying and his brother "spear" mourning his death.
4 - There's also this "dolphin" guy lurking in the shadows and surviving only due to his inhuman powers.
5 - Then you start to speculate on 3rd-partys, being only able to name fruits ("watermellon") and have the hardest time ever understanding why there would be "weapon" characters in what is obviously a "fruit game".
6 - Someone asks: "buddy, what's your name?"
7 - Everyone dislikes the question and forces him to ultimately rephrase it.
8 - That guy rephrases his question to "can you at least tell me if you are a fruit?"
9 - You answer: "I'm a geometric shape."

COME ON!!! I can't accept that I'm the only person that sees something (really) odd here!!!

I think that constitutes all of 4 or 5 games. But rest assured you weren't the only one not sure of the scope of the game.

Please, don't try to cuddle him. I think no player knows the exact scope of the game (my own guess had a range of 8 centuries for crying out loud!). There is, however, a big difference between "not knowing exactly the scope of the game" and epic failing like Bleed did.

Alright rodion, I misunderstood you..so here's the new question:

Where did you dig up info that any 3rd character from Romeo and Juliet would NOT be pro-town? As far as I know, we don't know Juliet's role yet, and if she turn up scum that 2 scum for 1 town in that book by your case.

Where wouldn't it be 2 pro-town for 1 anti-town?

Not like it matters...your case just doesn't hold water since you seem to assume one fact that no one should know without inside info, and use it against bleed..

Fos: Rodion

Freezie, you don't need to ask this question. It has already been answered. In explaining why I first suspected Bleed I used words such as "guess", "unlikely", "probability", "I had the feeling" and others. You can blame me for that if you want, that's your prerogative. That's a risk I took and I even said you could try to lynch me for that if you didn't like my "move" (yes, I was THAT confident the move would work - there's an english expression for that, something like betting my dollars against your donuts). But you can't close your eyes to the fact that my question (and further explanation) was able to bring something really really really weird to light (check the highlighted red part of this very post for a quick and didactic understanding of what exactly is smelly here).

FOS Freezie.