Matrix Mafia Endgame, Town and Survivors win!

[thehippo8]

EBWOP o.O... this is the wrong thread... Sorry

Lol...I was like...who?

Definitely I thought I was some elderly lady a few 100 years after WW2 who saves people o.O Haha, it took me until I actually rechecked both threads to notice what happened.

Well, 91 anyway! Very funny!!

[thehippo8]

And here's an article ... read here.

[betiko]

by the way, we got ghost that needs a replacement, just checking if it's taken care of...

i was going to google jak s softclaim as i was wondering who the hell it could be in the matrix lol!
so what you were saying about doom was completely linked to another game right jak?

[jak111]

by the way, we got ghost that needs a replacement, just checking if it's taken care of...

i was going to google jak s softclaim as i was wondering who the hell it could be in the matrix lol!
so what you were saying about doom was completely linked to another game right jak?

Yes, Doom is okay in this game XD I don't want him questioned too much here. It was our other game that a lot of us are in v.v Still I fail at noticing what tab I have open lol.

[cowboyz]

Ok, after catching up on 12 pages,

Jak and the bad math argument.
Just doesn't make much sense. If that was his plan to not count properly and use that as a tool to hammer Neb, wouldn't he have a huge target on his back? Not very sneaky.
He does seem like is all over the place though. But that does kind of go with his ruffle feathers plan
Not saying he is anything yet, just that the miscalc wouldn't be very genius.

First post that I read which seemed strange was

OK....seeing how we have 24 people playing and it takes 13 to lynch Neb may as well be the first to claim.

Vote Neb

I believe he is now at L3

Vote Count

IB(1)- jak, Leehar
crazymilkshake(1)- soundman
Neb(11)- Skillfu, eldario, spart, yoshi, everywhere, Neb, cm5, dazza, mob, edoc, IB
betiko(2)- cowboyz
dazza(1)- freezie
freezie(1)- jonty

With 24 alive, it takes 13 to lynch.

Deadline is midnight May 1st, PST. If no lynch is decided by then, the day will end in a no lynch.

Your vote made 11 which if I am correct put neb at L2.

Did you miscount when you said he was at L3? or were you hoping that somebody would trust your count and
vote neb to increase pressure (by putting him at what they thought was L2), thus allowing one of your scumbuddies to swoop in and drop the hammer?

Seeing how you have two answers ready to go why not just pick one and vote accordingly.

To me it was an obvious mistake. You however may have a different agenda. I will most definatlely watch more closely what you post.

Ok so this is the first post that stood out to me. IB gets questioned then goes semi offensive instead of explaining.

So you made your list not for the common good of catching scum but in learning tactic of players you are playing? You make no mention of pressuring scum behavior. In essence you are creating a list that fits to your criteria and not anyone else.

What you seem to be saying is that you want others to pressure me to claim not because I have done anything wrong but because I would suit your agenda. You want to learn my tactics, whatever that means. You also seem to believe that you are the reason I am now posting actively. Having a child and family, job and real life drama combined with a useless joke vote phase AND other Mafia games couldn't possibly been the reason. In your eyes, because you got me playing that now entitles you to put me on a list to be pressured to claim?

At the end you seem to imply you don't want us lynched you just want information to take into the evening, which implies you would be happy with a no lynch as well.

The statement was addressed to jak as Leehar had fastposted ahead of me.

Then IB going after Jak because he is offended by Jak's style of play? Just garbled nonsense.

FOS IronButterfly

Undecided on Neb atm, he could very well be a VT but seems a little strange so far.

Seemed DoomYoshi noticed too.
Might be on to something or might both be retarded.

I disagree that jak is Scummy. What I am noticing is a lot of twisting of words and BW jumping. Twisting by IB and neb, BW by hippo and everywhere. I am going to spend the next couple days on a leisurely read through and try to narrow my scope on those 4. Most likely, I will end up voting IB, but that is because we already have a claim from neb and everywhere and hippo have been pretty quiet.

Also, lots of people missing from discussion, myself included. So we should not rush to lynch. Just my thoughts.
Diablo 3 is beta atm so prob gonna be missing a few till Monday at least.

With Chuck I simply called it as i saw it. I made an honest mistake and then he inserted a WIFOM alternative answer that suggests I could be mafia. So I did explain it. He later explained he was trying to get a rise out of me to see how I would react. I would be curious how you would handle such a blatant attempt to "Ruffle a plyers Feathers". He after all acknowledged that that was his intent.

As far as Jak is concerned could you please show where I said I was offended by Jaks playstyle. You imply that because I countered his reasoning I must somehow be offended. In fact it is later on in our exchange that Jak apologizes to me. I told him that there is no need to apologize as we are playing Mafia.

So Cowboyz your main accusation is that I have twisted words and yet I have just shown that you are guilty of just such a transgression.

Please explain this contradiction and please show where I said I was offended by Jaks play.

I never said you twisted words. Plz read more carefully.
I just offered up my observations from what I had read...12 pages worth.
I didn't try to twist your words. I quoted you. When I read what you wrote, it seemed to me like you were angry with Jak for drawing attention to you then you went a bit on the offensive. THESE ARE MY PERCEPTIONS. You never actually said you were offended.

My main thing that makes me think you kinda strange is that if anyone seems to cast any attention your way, you immediately go on the offensive against that person.
You did it again with me. So that's 3 times. That might just be your play style or it might mean something. Who knows.
I didn't even vote ya, just typed up some thoughts I had while reading the thread.

Also, I reread some. I thought Jaks had the ruffle feathers plan but it was chuck that stated it first, Jaks said that plan also works for him though.

Sidenote.

My name is Rosana Masse. I thank everyone for actually standing up to Doom for me here, though I wish it could have been done with more.. subtle hints. I agree, soft claiming is BS, but that wasn't going to stop me from trying to get in a few more days. There's another power I have that requires a certain person lynched by the end of D3 for it to be activated. ~Cough~ Adolf ~Cough~ that would've bought us a night with not a single kill... Now that Doom was kind enough to be so out with my claim, I do wish to either see a claim or lynch with him. It's just not like Doom knowing a fellow townie's role and then continuing to pressure them by any means. That right there just gives me bad vibes from him. I do not know if something is bothering him, affecting his mood, but if there is not, then this case is worth pursuing to the full.

Fastposted once, +1 vote count would be nice.

WTF, I was so confused when reading this. When you started speaking about Adolf I didn't know if that is some kinda special mafia terminology or wtf was going on.

[jak111]

Yea.. that probably confused the hell out of anyone reading it... You know.. it's just a check to see if people are skimming <.< >.> ~Looks around innocently~ XD,

[safariguy5]

Vote Count

Neb(4)- Skillfu, cm5, mob, edoc
dazza(1)- freezie
eldario(1)- yoshi
hippo(2)- sound, jonty
jak(6)- dazza, IB, betiko, neb, hippo, everywhere

With 24 alive, it takes 13 to lynch.

Deadline is midnight May 1st, PST. If no lynch is decided by then, the day will end in a no lynch.

Looking for a replacement for ghostly.

[Djfireside]

I have caught up and in just reading noticed a few points that stick in my head.

As for Neb I agree that I would not have put Tank as a VT, maybe dozer but tank doesnt seem to sit well with me on that. Yes I know play the game not the mod but I am playing the genre and not the mod. Granted he is pure blood so it could fit but in going through a list of people in my head I would believe that Tank would have made a main char appearance and not a FC and without a redoubt on him and people pulling off and noone adding pressure afterwards I have to tend to believe he is tank although maybe not his role.

Jak - While he has been all over the board and even posting a nice claim, (this is the matrix after all you could have gone back to WWII I guess... Load the Other mafia game program!!!) Has seemed to leave a aura of uncertainty with me. One of the main points is the request to leave them at L-2 for the defense which is standard but for some reason the statement just didnt sit well with me. You appear that you are okay with claiming your defense and the rest of your math and mind games are your style. you have been a bit up and back and that can leave people uneasy but other than the statement I mentioned I havent got much of a vibe off of you but at this point its worth the pressure to get the information. Dont want a gung-ho lynch but lets see where you stand.

Vote Jak111

[shieldgenerator7]

I'm on page 24. This game moves fast.

[shieldgenerator7]

Ok I'm on page 29.

VOTE JAK for being uber-scummy like everyone else has pointed out (not going to bother to repeat what they said)

I have no idea who Tank is but if he's not the main character then who cares if he's not VT. Side characters get the VT roles. If you think he should have another power, then maybe his role shifts mid-game or something. I'm not saying this clears Neb or proves he's VT in anyway, I'm saying that might actually be his role.

-SG7 ( )

[jonty125]

If you must pursue me, then at least stop at L-2 so I can defend myself.

Well I doubt, we would have continued.


Anyhow, unvote vote jak for reasons that others have mentioned multiple times. Also (joke coming), for confusing me with claim in the wrong game.

[SPARTACUS1974]

well im still unsure about nebs claim but like others have stated we cant play the mod but im sure we can check him out tonight and see if he is just tanks vt.

as for jak he does seem to be acting scummy in this game and as others have posted about this .
so i think we should take a leaf out of jaks book and apply the pressure to get the claim from him because he does like a few claims on day 1 so
unvote/vote jak


again i am sorry for my lack of posts and it will be like this for the next 3 days i have work at sea and training for the lifeboat i have someone playing my games i hope but if this does cause a problem i can ask the mod to replace me its up to you guys?

[edocsil]

Nice of you to make an appearance Ed. You cut and paste and then post two sentences.

If you wish to make a case on me then by all means do so.

There are so many awesome characters in the Matrix and they must all be slow motion bullet proof vigs I guess. Who would imagine a VT in a 24 person game? You can not make the argument that there wont be VT in this game simply because the Matrix is such an Awesome movie with super duper cool characters, which is what you seem to be trying to do.

Unless you have other claims to compare Tank to your accusation is WIFOM and meaningless.

First off, Edoc, Edocsil, and Edoc'sil are all acceptable variants of my name. And I don't quote spam like some of you seem to like to do. it adds little to the game to say something with 200 words that takes only a sentence.

Second off, he played like shit for a VT, and his claim sucks. No offense neb. It doesn't seem like he has much more he can add to this game in terms of night actions, and he is new so hos day input is going to be less valued then an experienced player.

His claim was crap and then all of a sudden everyone assumes he is town, when that claim would be an incredibly simple fake that would require no effort to maintain for a scum, barring a track/watch.

Thirdly you now come rushing to his defense for little purpose I see after I aired slight suspicions about you. This stinks, and I mean to figure out why.

Sorry, Edoc, I didn't read the VT handbook prior to playing this game. What did you want me to do? Lie low and not say anything? Then you would vote me for being a submariner and new. Please tell me how a VT should play. I think I've explained my actions so far. Nobody else was going to do anything to get conversation going. (please, the Yoshi call was a disaster idea). Yes, I figured I would get cast into the fire, and possibly die for it...and as a VT, I was willing to take that risk. So, whatever...if you think my best use is to die, then kill me. For you, it all boils down to me being new, regardless of my claim...so just keep your vote on me, and you can feel real good about yourself.

As for adding anything else to this game, I think I'll add quite a bit more than, say...SPARTACUS, Eldario, and the few other players who have turtled up and said nothing important. Oh, they come on and say, "I'm catching up, post something later." But somehow, you feel obligated to overlook those players.

As for my claim being crap...talk to Safariguy about it. I hate that everyone here seems to know EXACTLY how safariguy set this game up. It's nice that all of you meta-ers would have made Tank a mason, or a super-powerful-almighty-matrix-surfer. Well, get over it; Tank is just a VT. You can say I'm lying, but don't use the "Tank would be so much cooler if I wrote this game" argument as a sound reason to vote me. It's a terrible reason, and you know it.

Neb

Not trying to be offensive. By the books vanilla is to basically softclaim doc day one and get yourself NKed, or at lest targeted for a nk. Hopefully the doc isn't a noob, doesn't call you out on it, and protects you the first night.

A VT has utterly failed if we hang him, because above all a vt has buy more time for the town, not set himself swinging and sending the town to night.

As for the blue, I agree. But i can do better then pressuring inactives, the odds of them actually being scum really aren't all that great.

And for your ineffective counter for the crap claim you reference "everyone" when there are only one or two people asking serous questions about your flavor. I don't know how else to say this. VT cannot be proven, because you totally should not be investigated, the claim isn't worth it. A VT is useless when exposed and a clever scum can hide behind that thin shield.

Meta and flavor is why this site exists and why we play themed games. It will be analyzed and used.

Since when does a VT have anything to offer at night besides being a meat shield or scum hunting by day? I hate this notion put forth that someone is somehow scummy because they disagree with someones observations. I am not defending Neb the player so much as I am defending the notion that he somehow cant be a VT.

Again you are not the mod so stop acting as if you are. You have nothing to compare his claim to. Second in the past you have always been a player who has stated that judging a player as scum vs town on the basis of flavor is very rarely successful. He is the first one to claim and you are using flavor to presume his guilt.

This post is really bugging me. Red is stupid. I have my own claim to compare this to. Go find blue, or at least try to. That statement isn't mine. all I ever do is flavor analysis basically. Green. So? Flavor + useless role + chance of easy scum fake = I should try to lynch.

Orange. What the f*ck. I don't even understand. Acting as the mod? I am sorry, I am I not allowed to do a simple flavor analysis? Whatever.



Anyhow. Since you two seem intent on bastardizing my argument let me explain a few things.

1. Safari has had VTs in 5 of his last 7 games. I don't doubt existence of VTs. Or their existence as fakes.
2. Neb did scummy stuff, that's why he was close to a lynch.
3. Neb's claim is not strong (say like Neo the pro town hero)


My argument isn't:

OMG a VT!!!!1! That cannot be !! HANG ALL VT!!!!

Which it seems to be getting simplified to.


But w/e Neb, your off the hook. The lemming town has decided to piledrive Jak.

[betiko]

edocsil, that "guidebook" thing for a vt on day 1 makes no sense. If I was doc for example and a VT claims doc; i would imediately see him as scum. protect him on night 1, really? a vt should claim vt because he is not important and can mess many things up if he starts fakeclaiming town power roles.
And there is no "playing by the book", as that would make town predictable, and the whole point is to do stuff that mafia don't expect and wifom them.

FOS edocsil because he seems like a very experienced player and all this seems weird from him, unless he was just fishing for info..

[dazza2008]

edocsil, that "guidebook" thing for a vt on day 1 makes no sense. If I was doc for example and a VT claims doc; i would imediately see him as scum. protect him on night 1, really? a vt should claim vt because he is not important and can mess many things up if he starts fakeclaiming town power roles.
And there is no "playing by the book", as that would make town predictable, and the whole point is to do stuff that mafia don't expect and wifom them.

FOS edocsil because he seems like a very experienced player and all this seems weird from him, unless he was just fishing for info..

You are clearly misunderstanding his point. He is not saying to fakeclaim at all. He is saying try not to draw attention and be forced to claim. But during the day try to look important enough for the scum to kill you instead of someone who really is a power role.

If the doc believes it too and protects you then that is a bonus as there will be no kill at all.

[SPARTACUS1974]

thanks for explaining dazza i was a little bit confused by what edoc had said but it does make sence to draw attention towards you if you are a vt and away from the others .

and what does wifom mean?

[jonty125]

Wine In Front Of Me

[jonty125]

Whine In Front Of Me

Oops!!

[edocsil]

edocsil, that "guidebook" thing for a vt on day 1 makes no sense. If I was doc for example and a VT claims doc; i would imediately see him as scum. protect him on night 1, really? a vt should claim vt because he is not important and can mess many things up if he starts fakeclaiming town power roles.
And there is no "playing by the book", as that would make town predictable, and the whole point is to do stuff that mafia don't expect and wifom them.

FOS edocsil because he seems like a very experienced player and all this seems weird from him, unless he was just fishing for info..

Missing the point, see dazas post. He explained in other terms. Red is incorrect. Town must rely on one another to win, that cannot be done with illogical gameplay. There is a lot more that I could and so as to clearly explain why this is incorrect, but it really isn't worth the effort.

thanks for explaining dazza i was a little bit confused by what edoc had said but it does make sence to draw attention towards you if you are a vt and away from the others .

and what does wifom mean?

You could google it, but it means Wine In Front Of Me. It's from Princes Bride an exceptional movie. If you haven't seen it,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9f3GSA9yfc

[shieldgenerator7]

I understand WIFOM, or at least the concept of it, but how did that come to mean, "invalid due to circular reasoning or insufficient evidence"?

And does that definition match yours?

[Nebuchadnezer]

Edoc...

I would then like to see your flavor analysis of this game. The list of characters are limited, so it shouldn't be too hard. I've made one already, and I come up with quite a few VTs. If anyone is going to be masons, it's Neo and Trinity and perhaps Morpheus.

Just curious, because, with 6-7 VTs...per my figuring...it's going to be difficult for any of the VTs to get by once they claim, because they will all be "too convenient."

Neb

[Leehar]

FoS Jak bandwagoners? I really didn't see much in him (other than not liking him ofc ) for such an easy wagon to form?

[thechuck51]

Vote jak

He repeatedly cast suspicion on multiple people hoping to initiate pressure/bandwagon on somebody without ever supplying much evidence besides maybe saying they were not active enough.

[thechuck51]

Regarding vt claims:

I don't think we can disregard vt claims based on the character. Anybody but the main characters could be vt. If something other than vt is claimed and the role doesn't match the character (like if somebody claimed oracle one shot vigilante) then I would find that very suspicious.

[DoomYoshi]

Jak is town. Leave him be, we are masoned.