[OFFICIAL] Lion King Mafia - Town Scarred as Mafia Wins!

[Skoffin]

Ever heard the phrases 'right for the wrong reasons' or "wrong for the right reasons"?

I may have been incorrect on Kwan, but I still do not think that pegging Kwan is enough to say that DDS/SAm must be scum because they stuck to their usual day one no lynch stance. However my issue here is not with you,
it's with Benga (and now Masket) who appear to be jumping to this Sam case because you are leading it without much conviction of their own, they appear to be following the leader and it does not sit well with me. It comes across as they don't want to cross you and they want to get the day over quick and going with the easy lead. I can sea you as being town voting this lynch, but their motives for it seem suspicious.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Well sadly I didn't want to completely reveal I was vanilla yesterday as to prevent the mapping that hotshot pointed out so yeah. Basically revealed the other day when I said I was ostrich.

In other words, I have no night action

ok for that, but I am waiting for you to make some other moves than just wait
or you also need no lynch on day 2?
I was expecting you coming in with blazing guns and gives us something more useful than this
the whole concept of you not lynching day 1 is ridicoulos

vote sam

Yet it worked with a scum being lynched the following day and ultimately a town win in BNI. Why am I still trying to justify a day 1 no lynch at this point?

At any rate, I haven't seen any reason to vote for Sam. However, I will say that this immediate bandwagon on Sam with nothing other than a "Lets get him!" is ridiculous. If someone wants to provide a clear lead, that'd be awesome. If not, I'll be more than happy to vote for a lynch, just not on Sam who I expect to be Town.

[benga]

Ever heard the phrases 'right for the wrong reasons' or "wrong for the right reasons"?

I may have been incorrect on Kwan, but I still do not think that pegging Kwan is enough to say that DDS/SAm must be scum because they stuck to their usual day one no lynch stance. However my issue here is not with you,
it's with Benga (and now Masket) who appear to be jumping to this Sam case because you are leading it without much conviction of their own, they appear to be following the leader and it does not sit well with me. It comes across as they don't want to cross you and they want to get the day over quick and going with the easy lead. I can sea you as being town voting this lynch, but their motives for it seem suspicious.

so let me get this right
you believe DDS and others after him going for no lynch
but you suspect anyone seeing the same as mandy?
btw I was the first to vote on sam in day 1 and mandy voted him after me

[benga]

Well sadly I didn't want to completely reveal I was vanilla yesterday as to prevent the mapping that hotshot pointed out so yeah. Basically revealed the other day when I said I was ostrich.

In other words, I have no night action

ok for that, but I am waiting for you to make some other moves than just wait
or you also need no lynch on day 2?
I was expecting you coming in with blazing guns and gives us something more useful than this
the whole concept of you not lynching day 1 is ridicoulos

vote sam

Yet it worked with a scum being lynched the following day and ultimately a town win in BNI. Why am I still trying to justify a day 1 no lynch at this point?

At any rate, I haven't seen any reason to vote for Sam. However, I will say that this immediate bandwagon on Sam with nothing other than a "Lets get him!" is ridiculous. If someone wants to provide a clear lead, that'd be awesome. If not, I'll be more than happy to vote for a lynch, just not on Sam who I expect to be Town.

You don't have to justify no lynch argument
I want to see you make an effort than just wait for our power roles to reveal themselves
cause this seems to be your main objective and that's highly scummy

[DirtyDishSoap]

How is this highly scummy? With what case are you asking me to build off of right now, at this very minute, with barely a day into Days 2? There's only a handful of reactions at this point that I could go off of but it's hardly tangible. I'd prefer to hear from some of the other less active players at this moment and let them weigh in on how the night transpired. Here's a list of people who haven't said a word in Days 2, if we're going to use your logic here, that are also just as suspect as me.

1) flores - Has said nothing
3) mandy - Immediately voted Sam
4) chu - Has said nothing
5) skittles - Has said nothing
8 ) dj - Has said nothing
9) pikanchion (replaces Tim) - Has said nothing
10) Mitch - Has said nothing
11) DDS - Town hero
12) Masket - Jumped on the mandy hype train
13) hotshot - Has said nothing
14) Sam - Has said nothing
15) skoff - Said some stuff
16) benga - Now boarding the mandy hype train. CHOO CHOO

That's 7 other players you too could go after with that argument.

FOS Benga

[benga]

You don't want to lynch on day 1 cause there is no enough information to make the lynch. - VALID I can understand that

On day 2 you await for our power roles to claim who did they investigate, block etc. - SCUMMY that's some easy picks of our powerroles for scum

The reason I am still not voting you, is that sam seemed to me as someone who used your no lynch argument and tagged along just as Rag did

[Samlen]

Well that didn't take long for votes to appear. Makes me wonder how much thinking is being done. I'm assuming kwan's mafia buddies didn't know that he wanted to be lynched, so it's probably safe to assume that they didn't start the wagon on him. This puts mostly just hotshot on my more town radar and maybe mitch. With 16 people, I would normally assume 4 mafia members in a 16 player game, but considering kwan was a jester, it might be safe to say there were 5 and that we're down to 3 or that there were 4 and the remaining 2 are powerful. Or it's unbalanced, so whatever. Given that they were down a teammember after the day vig shot, it's unlikely all the remaining scum would be on that wagon. In fact, it would be a daring scum to risk loosing a 2nd member on day 1 for town cred. I could easily see a scum throwing some shade at ragian for town cred, but i'd be willing to bet that most wouldn't want to push for a kill on a second member so quickly. So, if it weren't 2 in the morning, i'd go back and find who had voiced suspicions about ragian but seemed reluctant to lynch kwanton (either by not voting him or joined the wagon in the latter half).

Little omgus but the first player that springs to mind(without rereading) is Mandy. It's like he went after ragian for town cred, and got a lot of it when day vig shot him. Then, when the bandwagon started going on kwan, he jumped on thinking he could get enough town cred to lead the town wherever, like he is with mm and benga. Then again, it might just be mandy being obnoxiously stubborn.

ninja'd by benga/dds
@Benga we lynch today because powerroles have information that steer us closer to a good lynch, even if they don't reveal themselves specifically. Normally, i'd say this is the full extent that we have our powerroles help: without revealing themselves. But if any can specifically say they caught scum (like cop since it's apparent mafia wasn't roleblocked) today, it'd be a great chance to whittle them down to only 1 or two.

[DirtyDishSoap]

You don't want to lynch on day 1 cause there is no enough information to make the lynch. - VALID I can understand that

On day 2 you await for our power roles to claim who did they investigate, block etc. - SCUMMY that's some easy picks of our powerroles for scum

The reason I am still not voting you, is that sam seemed to me as someone who used your no lynch argument and tagged along just as Rag did

I'm asking for leads, not reveals. There's a difference. If no lead, no reason to reveal.

If we have no leads then I'm willing to scum hunt and pressure people.

Rag didn't "tag along". He disagreed with my stance clearly but said that he respect the stance. Also one more difference. The last one is that Sam has felt the same way before. It isn't just some tag along adventure he whimsically thought about, and that's why I don't believe he's scum. Why on earth would he want to put himself on the chopping block if this is something, according to you, is what killed Rag?

[Minister Masket]

How is this highly scummy? With what case are you asking me to build off of right now, at this very minute, with barely a day into Days 2? There's only a handful of reactions at this point that I could go off of but it's hardly tangible. I'd prefer to hear from some of the other less active players at this moment and let them weigh in on how the night transpired. Here's a list of people who haven't said a word in Days 2, if we're going to use your logic here, that are also just as suspect as me.

16) benga - Now boarding the mandy hype train. CHOO CHOO

I may have been incorrect on Kwan, but I still do not think that pegging Kwan is enough to say that DDS/SAm must be scum because they stuck to their usual day one no lynch stance. However my issue here is not with you,
It's with Benga (and now Masket) who appear to be jumping to this Sam case because you are leading it without much conviction of their own, they appear to be following the leader and it does not sit well with me. It comes across as they don't want to cross you and they want to get the day over quick and going with the easy lead. I can sea you as being town voting this lynch, but their motives for it seem suspicious.

Fair enough. Following the leader it may be but the leader in question has a damn good effective track record so far and I think we can probably all agree it has done enough damage to scum to almost certainly prove his role alignment. Skittles basically did the same thing in Civ Mafia and tore through scum in the early game by heading up the enquiries. It helps to recognise the pattern.

That being said, absolutely, we still need to hear from the remaining players. I'm trying not to bang on too much about Tim/Pika but his game thoughts are still the most unknown to date.

[mandalorian2298]

Ever heard the phrases 'right for the wrong reasons' or "wrong for the right reasons"?

Yes I have. Being perfect as I am, I never gave it much thought, but if I'm forced to chose I would probably go with being right for whatever reason.

I may have been incorrect on Kwan, but I still do not think that pegging Kwan is enough to say that DDS/SAm must be scum because they stuck to their usual day one no lynch stance. However my issue here is not with you,
it's with Benga (and now Masket) who appear to be jumping to this Sam case because you are leading it without much conviction of their own, they appear to be following the leader and it does not sit well with me. It comes across as they don't want to cross you and they want to get the day over quick and going with the easy lead. I can sea you as being town voting this lynch, but their motives for it seem suspicious.

If you were actually interested in anything except obstructing scum-hunting efforts of Town players, you would have have remembered that the first foundation for my voting Sam has been laid by Fircoal on Day 1. There is a nice, color-coded post in which I analyzed his case vs Sam, Flores' case vs you and Skittles' case vs MM (concerning this last one: I'm sorry Skittles, but since your case vs MM has been mostly based on a feeling, I am, at present, not considering him a priority target, 'specially since he is now cooperating with the forces of Light and Goodness ).

Also, nice skimming on accusing benga of following me on the Kwan case.
Although "You follow best by following from in front. Thus your prey never knows that he's not actually the predator." is Imperial Intelligence doctrine, so I am preemptively fosing benga for the next Star Wars themed mafia.

Little omgus but the first player that springs to mind(without rereading) is Mandy. It's like he went after ragian for town cred, and got a lot of it when day vig shot him. Then, when the bandwagon started going on kwan, he jumped on thinking he could get enough town cred to lead the town wherever, like he is with mm and benga. Then again, it might just be mandy being obnoxiously stubborn.

My plan IS to gather Town's trust by helping to lynch scum. That IS indeed why I'm voting you.
Whooo, I'm glad that secret is off my chest. I feel light and innocent again.

BTW, did you vote for me Day 1? I don't see how I can be OMGUSing you without that.

About the underlined part, I request a clarification of the rules: Are personal attacks forbidden even when he's absolutely right?

[DirtyDishSoap]

I'll tickle Benga's pickle a bit give everyone a few scenarios on how I think the night transpired.

Scenario 1: The Story Lynch -

Rrrright. Well, good luck town (or I should say, follow the story line)

I hate to use a beyond the grave quote here, but perhaps this was a theme lynch rather than a night kill? Maybe it was under a condition that he was suppose to die after x day expired. This means that there is a possibility that a roleblock occurred over night and successfully blocked scum from carrying out the night kill. It's highly suspicious to me as well that Dakky would just be targeted when there are more active scum hunters at present. WIFOM territory, but just throwing it out there.

Scenario 2: Jester Death

This is something I see in SC2 so I'm not sure if it carries over in the forums, but when people vote Jester and the Jester is lynch, one random person will commit suicide going into the night. This means that again, a roleblock occurred preventing a NK action from happening.
Really unlikely though but it's out there.

Scenario 3: Night Kill occurred - No leads.

Self explanatory.

Honestly, if we're following theme here to the T, I would think scenario 1 is the most likely. Nothing at the moment indicates otherwise unless someone else brings something to the table.

Fair enough. Following the leader it may be but the leader in question has a damn good effective track record so far and I think we can probably all agree it has done enough damage to scum to almost certainly prove his role alignment. Skittles basically did the same thing in Civ Mafia and tore through scum in the early game by heading up the enquiries. It helps to recognise the pattern.

That being said, absolutely, we still need to hear from the remaining players. I'm trying not to bang on too much about Tim/Pika but his game thoughts are still the most unknown to date.

What exactly is his track record? He didn't get Rag killed, a day vig killed him and we're assuming it's Dakky that made the shot.
The only other notable thing he has at this moment was that he contributed in killing a mafia aligned jester. Someone who has a win condition of getting lynched to begin with.

I'm not sure how Skittles played it out in Civ but I can't concede that Mandy's record is really all that great to where we all need to just hop on board and trust his judgment 100% without question.

[strike wolf]

Dang it. Even in the mafia game Mufasa has to die.

[madmitch]

well we lost Dakky , at least he wasn't lynched this time, He might be right about following the story and if he is then we only have two more major bad guys,Scar and Shenzi , I still believe Sam and am wondering why Mandi is pushing for his lynch? remember Mandy thought once that Dakky was scum. I think Mandy needs to pushed and reveal why he is so hot after Sam vote mandy

[TimWoodbury]

Sounds like you got stuck in Death Valley or Louisiana swamp ville. Sorry to hear about that Tim.

4ft mccoy wisconsin word is next year were going to cali not far from death valley

[Pikanchion]

First of all: Djfireside is either lurking heavily or AWOL, this being their last post. This was noted by benga during Day 1 and yet seems to not have been noticed by the town at large.

I for one would first like to remove those inactive:
vote DJ
or our days will become weeks and months

Regarding DirtyDishSoap's ideas: In the first two cases, even if we supposed them to be true, it's reasonably safe to assume that a role as common as a Doctor exists in this game, meaning that even if somebody was roleblocked it still doesn't necessarily confirm that they tried to kill somebody. The only way to verify things like this involves outing both our potential Doctor and Roleblocker. I'm not sure there's anything to gain from this sort of speculation at this time.

The Samlen bandwagon is interesting, as it seems to be largely based upon their Vanilla Townie claim and perhaps to a lesser extent the fact that their earlier posts lacked substance, with nobody mentioning either of these two posts, which I would argue are far scummier than the claim itself in the context of kwanton being scum. Currently I think Samlen would be a decent candidate for lynching, but the rapid bandwagoning before most had even had a chance to speak is also a little suspicious and frankly muddies the water for me.

I have limited experience playing with madmitch, however this sounded very familiar:

Mitch: I'm sure that Flores didn't mean to be mean, she's a sweethart, even if she sometimes shows it in a weird ways. It's just that she hails from a different era in CC Mafia, when most people had been at least semi-serious about the game and the community was a lot more active. From that perspective this game is frustrating (as I as well might have hinted in my posts ) but the fault for that is not on you or any other active players.
That being said, having re-read her post, I'm not sure what made you react like this. Are you random? Yes, many of your votes and posts come out of the blue. As for calling you or, rather, your play, shallow- you post short posts which don't look like you are putting a lot of effort into analyzing other people's posts and building cases against them.
Everyone has a right to goof off, but you can't then be insulted when someone calls you out for goofing off.

In fact they acted in a similar way in the Alien Mafia game when criticised, a game in which they were scum. This brings me to mandalorian2298, who is apparently highly suspicious of three of the players who have claimed Vanilla Townie and/or nameless animal, but not of the fourth.

Sorry just can't behind the lynch of Samlem, I believe he was just joking about his name being Ed,and I believe his claim because I have basically the same claim.

As mentioned by FloresDelMal, madmitch is not being particularly helpful to town and has made the same claim that gets others a FOS, yet is still given a pass by certain players here.

[HotShot53]

Pik, the reason sam & DDS are mandy's main suspects is because they wanted a day 1 no-lynch, not because they claimed VT. I kind of doubt all scum wanted a no-lynch, but it's a consideration.

Sam has enough votes on him for now, so I won't vote him yet. So far I don't see any other worthwhile cases to vote on yet though.

[madmitch]

IF this will help out town , here is my claim water buffalo (no name ) part of herd, vanilla, that is why I am sticky by Sam .




0

[mandalorian2298]

IF this will help out town , here is my claim water buffalo (no name ) part of herd, vanilla, that is why I am sticky by Sam .




0

Nice try Mitch, I'm not voting for you.
For you guys who are better at balancing then me, a question: Would the game with 11 Townies, 3 powered Mafia, Mafia Idiot and a Jester be balanced? If so, I'd set my watch and warrant on Mitch being the Jester. His general mitchood aside, he seems determined to spend Day 2 jumping up and down and waving the passing bandwagons over to pick him up and carry him to the tree.

...
In fact they acted in a similar way in the Alien Mafia game when criticised, a game in which they were scum. This brings me to mandalorian2298, who is apparently highly suspicious of three of the players who have claimed Vanilla Townie and/or nameless animal, but not of the fourth.

Sorry just can't behind the lynch of Samlem, I believe he was just joking about his name being Ed,and I believe his claim because I have basically the same claim.

As mentioned by FloresDelMal, madmitch is not being particularly helpful to town and has made the same claim that gets others a FOS, yet is still given a pass by certain players here.

Welcome to the wonderful world of CC Mafia, Pika!

So, while I AM currently suspicious of both Salem and DDS, I am much more suspicious of Samlen. He has been giving off scum tells al through the game (and I congratulate you on pointing out the two posts in which he was "softly" trying to prevent Kwanton's lynch.

I'm not familiar with the history between Mitch and Flores, but due to her dogged prosecution of Skoffin and her joining the Kwan bandwagon in a timely and decisive manner, at this moment she looks lika 100% scum-hunter to me (also, without Flores this game would become a darker and sadder place. )

As for Mitch, look above. (if someone wants to investigate him, that's fine, he probably should get investigated in every game)

[nagerous]

Vote Count :

Mandy (1) Mitch
Sam (3) Mandy, Benga, MM

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch!

[FloresDelMal]

hello, hello, hello, i just spent an unreasonable amount of time re reading this whole game once again and collected a bunch of quotes that i wanted to further discuss, but i ran out of steam, so for now ill say this, lets take a minute to mourn mufasa, our king who bravely offed scum for us, did anyone suspected him being the town day vig before the scene of his death came up

because i certainly didnt see it coming, sure once the first scum was down he expressed his joy, but so did mandy and myself, and we all pitched a justification of the choice of kill according to our perceptions of the ragian scumness factor, but there was a single person who made clear that she was pretty certain about dakky

As for the whole lynching argument, I'm only going to say that town should always lynch when they can - the only time town should no lynch is when the towns nightgame is stronger than the scums nightgame.

I can see the points made on Masket, on the other hand being on the fence is sortof his trademark. I'll reserve judgement for now.
Dakky is probably town, mostly because he seems exactly the sort of person to start shooting people the moment he's able to.

Skoff can you please elaborate more about dakky, you lost me there, i have not seen anything indicating that he could be town or scum, and also about MM i have been out of the mafia scene for so long that i dont remember much about his playing style, but in my vague memories i remember him as a good player, it doesnt match with half assed being his "trademark" but my memory is indeed cloudy, so if you could enlighten me i couldnt thank you enough

Dakky - someone, presumably a town vig, shot another player, I'd say dakky is a possibility for being that person. Along with people such as mandy. so for now now those two are in my likely town list.
MM - He is a decent player and I'm not suggesting he half-arses anything, but I do notice a tendency in his play to be 'on the fence', he's certainly not an aggressive player by any means. He's just slower to pick sides and advocate hard for them.

so either she has superior deducing skills that yet didnt allow her to notice the on purpose scum slip ups of kwan, or she has an investigative role, either way if i suspected someone of being a protown role, i couldnt point it out unless it was to come in their defense if they risk being lynched because i could be afraid to give away leads to scum NK so i have trouble thinking of the unjustified outing of pro town power roles as townie behaviour so FOS Skoff and RIP dakky

I'm at L-3 (L-2 since kwan'll probably fix his vote next time he gets on) so I'm a giraffe. I am a vanilla townie and I am simply part of the herd. If I do get lynched, I'd say mitch's softclaim of vanilla townie is slightly more legitimized.

If the assumption is correct that there are (were) 3 hyenas and Scar as scum, then all inclined to believe them could be scum as well, so with 3 scum alive try not to be manipulated. I say we lynch the claimed giraffe and find out if it really doesn't have a name, if it has then mitch and hotshot are next in line. If it really doesn't it will clear mitch and possibly those who "believed" Samlen's claim.

FOS the no name vanilla claims because following the storyline of the lion king 1 this should be the our cast:

1 Simba
2 Nala
3 Timon
4 Scar
5 Mufasa
6 Sarabi
7 Zazu
8 Rafiki
9 Shenzi
10 Banzai
11 Ed
12 Sarafina
13 Gopher
14 Pumbaa
15
16

that leaves place for 2 no name VT or no name Goon, since everyone besides me and pikanchion (btw welcome ^^) is giving a free pass to mitch, and he was the first one to give scum the chance to jump on the "herd" fake claim, lets assume he is indeed a VT water buffalo, which leaves a single place for another no name who could be either VT or a Goon
so having a theoretical 50 50 chance of finding scum amongst the ostrich and the giraffe i will go ahead and Vote Sam and hint the new king who must have inherited the day kill power from his daddy consider taking into account the ostrich scum factor

[Samlen]

BTW, did you vote for me Day 1? I don't see how I can be OMGUSing you without that.

I never voted you Day 1, cause whole no-lynch advocate. The omgus was on my part for placing my highest suspicion on the person pushing the hardest to lynch me.

Scenario 1: The Story Lynch -

Rrrright. Well, good luck town (or I should say, follow the story line)

I hate to use a beyond the grave quote here, but perhaps this was a theme lynch rather than a night kill? Maybe it was under a condition that he was suppose to die after x day expired. This means that there is a possibility that a roleblock occurred over night and successfully blocked scum from carrying out the night kill. It's highly suspicious to me as well that Dakky would just be targeted when there are more active scum hunters at present. WIFOM territory, but just throwing it out there.

I thought it was weird how mufasa was the first night kill, so this might actually make sense.

The Samlen bandwagon is interesting, as it seems to be largely based upon their Vanilla Townie claim and perhaps to a lesser extent the fact that their earlier posts lacked substance, with nobody mentioning either of these two posts, which I would argue are far scummier than the claim itself in the context of kwanton being scum. Currently I think Samlen would be a decent candidate for lynching, but the rapid bandwagoning before most had even had a chance to speak is also a little suspicious and frankly muddies the water for me.

I'm surprised someone else didn't bring up those posts earlier cause they do seem scummy. The whole kwanton wagon had felt off at worst and was people jumping on a random typo at best. Like i've said before, i figured a lynch on day 1 was more likely to hurt than to help, so i stayed firm on my stance that I didn't want to lynch.


Why include sarabi sarfina and a gopher? I mean a GOPHER??? Those three are minor enough that i don't think that they'd be included. Might just be me but I feel like the setup would be closer to this:
1 Simba
2 Nala
3 Timon
4 Scar
5 Mufasa
6 Zazu
7 Rafiki
8 Shenzi
9 Banzai
10 Ed
11 Pumbaa
12-16 - Vanilla Townies

Considering how one of the mafia was a idiot/jester that wanted to be lynched, we start including more and more named characters (likely power roles) and we leave less room for the mafia to have a chance without being extra op (which ragian being tracker hasn't exactly left me with the feeling that they have extra powers.)

[FloresDelMal]

yep gopher, which is the name of the mole informant who gave the tip which allowed mufasa to save the cubs from the hyenas in the elephant graveyard, small but crucial role perfect for a town tracker, now will you give it a rest trying to mislead town and actually build a defense for yourself?

[Djfireside]

I tend to agree more with Sam's outcome than Flores. A standard game should have quite a bit of VT as it keeps the balance. Im sure that there are VT's and it makes sense they are animals but I have an issue with Sam's claim for the fact that you are saying you are part of a herd but no one else has come up to say they are also your animal so I don't see a herd which makes me wonder if you were tied to kwon in that aspect.

[Pikanchion]

I tend to agree more with Sam's outcome than Flores. A standard game should have quite a bit of VT as it keeps the balance. Im sure that there are VT's and it makes sense they are animals but I have an issue with Sam's claim for the fact that you are saying you are part of a herd but no one else has come up to say they are also your animal so I don't see a herd which makes me wonder if you were tied to kwon in that aspect.

More than twelve days have passed since your previous post and that's the entirety of what you have to say?

[madmitch]

First of all unvote I believe I was wrong. I was reading again the previous posts and came upon an interesting statement by Mandy.When the subject was brought about Dakky being day vig ( not stated when he died ) Mandy thought that Rafiki did it and was a joat. I am not sure if that was a soft claim or not ,but maybe Mandy is a joat and used another one of his abilities to check on Sam and that is why he jumped on him right away, what do you think town ?