Mass Effect 1 - Thorian (Cult) Wins!

[iAmCaffeine]

like he has nothing to lose from that. if caff flips town as tracker, hotshot gets speed lynched tomorrow.

Good trade for scum if he's just nilla or something similar.

The problem is, his character can surely only be town, which would mean we're in a town vs town scenario. Even though I believe HotShot is likely town, I'd have no choice but to vote him since I can't be 100% certain he's legit, whereas I of course know that I'm 100% tracker.

I have a proposition. Lynch outside me and HotShot, benga jails outside as well. HotShot and I can track the same person and we can confirm who's real tomorrow. Alternatively, follow the guy that's tunnelling town vs town and end up losing both a tracker and a likely vigilante. Looking at the description of HotShot's character I assume it has to be someone like that - personality that doesn't like rules or regulations etc.

[iAmCaffeine]

Even better, me and HotShot can both track benga. I dont think there's particularly any doubt that he's jailor, so as long as both benga and the jailed wait for HotShot and I to claim it's fine. Although I just realised I could post and HotShot could copy me. Hm. Some real time mafia strategies don't work as effectively here.

[Thorthoth]

So is there consensus that there would never be two trackers?
If so, then it looks like HotShot and caff are both on trial. They both have to disclose more until one of them trips up. Keep double downing on the lies, boys.

Personal Public Note to Dakky. Do NOT sabotage our 'real world' team game because you're gunning for me here. That would be truly scummy, regardless of your role in this game.
I feel it's fair mentioning this here because he mentioned the mafia game there, during an unprovoked game chat flame on a teammate?!

For now, I will continue to assume that Dakky's vendetta against me is strategic. My read is that a mafia type would have most to gain by playing 'lynch the noob' so I'm still pointing my biggest
FOS at dakky.

[dakky21]

Thor what I wrote in that CC game was a joke. You obviously didn't get it... and don't mix CC games with mafia.

[Minister Masket]

Masket - Posting the same way as he did in lion king. I am feeling very triggered.

I think Skoffin makes some good points, especially concerning Mitch, Ragian, MM. Mitch loves voting, Ragian is a good player and wouldn't usually question why you'd vote for people who aren't posting (it kind of could be seen as "Hey! All the scum are posting so lol"), and MM is playing similarly to how he played in Lion.. in which case he was godfather.

Ya, but in that game i was only pretending to be town. Here I actually am one.

Would you rather I go back to my old 'claiming Mafia PGO' days?

So is there consensus that there would never be two trackers?
If so, then it looks like HotShot and caff are both on trial. They both have to disclose more until one of them trips up. Keep double downing on the lies, boys.

Pretty much.
Interesting that you seem to suspect both are lying though.

[Thorthoth]

So is there consensus that there would never be two trackers?
If so, then it looks like HotShot and caff are both on trial. They both have to disclose more until one of them trips up. Keep double downing on the lies, boys.

Pretty much.
Interesting that you seem to suspect both are lying though.

No, I wasn't trying to imply that, ...though it would be a funny twist.

[Ragian]

Oh, come on.

No kill and caff jailed. Claims tracker and is counterclaimed. Vote caff

[Ragian]

Also, whoever it was saying that we learn a role is stating the obvious. When I ask what we learn from lynching an inactive, I mean in terms of pattern and history. Whom did the player stick up for, distance himself from, vote for, etc.

Lynching Pika, for instance, yields nothing in the greater picture. I think it's very scummy to suggest that not wanting to lynch an inactive is scummy. Scum want the least information out there. Lynching someone who's not around yields no information and makes it easier for scum to orchestrate their night actions.

Lynching a lurker, however, that's a different story... That's not what seems to be suggested, though.

[iAmCaffeine]

Ragian's first and probably only good post. No surprise he's back to voting me after doing so easily earlier on. Why not go with my idea of outing reports tomorrow? Presumably there's a doc who can go on benga.

[Ragian]

Whom would you go for today, then?

[DoomYoshi]

Ragian's first and probably only good post. No surprise he's back to voting me after doing so easily earlier on. Why not go with my idea of outing reports tomorrow? Presumably there's a doc who can go on benga.

That is a stupid plan and you know it. Stop with the trying to direct town actions.

unvote vote caff

To answer skittlez question earlier: can you tell me how it is good for town for the doctor to save your scumbuddy so that you a) know where the doctor is going and b) know don't have to worry about a vig.

[DoomYoshi]

So is there consensus that there would never be two trackers?
If so, then it looks like HotShot and caff are both on trial. They both have to disclose more until one of them trips up. Keep double downing on the lies, boys.

Personal Public Note to Dakky. Do NOT sabotage our 'real world' team game because you're gunning for me here. That would be truly scummy, regardless of your role in this game.
I feel it's fair mentioning this here because he mentioned the mafia game there, during an unprovoked game chat flame on a teammate?!

For now, I will continue to assume that Dakky's vendetta against me is strategic. My read is that a mafia type would have most to gain by playing 'lynch the noob' so I'm still pointing my biggest
FOS at dakky.

It is extremely rare for 2 trackers. It's called bastard modding. And if there is 2 trackers, losing one isn't that bad.

[madmitch]

Here we go again, 1st Caff gets jailed (no kill) claims tracker (Hackett) , 2nd H.S. claims tracker(Vakarian), what to do? In my crazy mind Hackett would be with his rank a watcher and Gaarus was a investigater, I think Sheppard would be better suited as a tracker.But with everything that Caff has been saying I have to revote Caff, VOTE CAFF

[Pikanchion]

Lmao HotShot, f*ck off mate. If you're a legit tracker, why would you ask me to claim a name after I'd already said I was a tracker? That makes no sense. If you really had a CC to me you would've announced it there and then, not fucked about with "half claim" bullshit. I don't know the characters well at all but I did a little research. Apparently Hackett had been looking for the Cerberus or something, so I guess it makes sense that I'd be a tracker. Garrus however is described as rash and disliking of rules in general, so the role doesn't feel like it would fit. I can think of other town power roles that would be suitable however, and there doesn't seem to be any question that Garrus would be a town player (unless I've missed a key part of the lore in my 1min search).

You also wanted to see my full claim, which you have, but you're withholding information and not providing a full claim. Double standards much?

Regardless, I figure you're just town who is really keen to see me lynched. The problem is your push is going to see you lose a valuable member of the time and only you knows I don't have an actual CC, most others will likely believe you unfortunately. What makes it worse is that later, when your true (likely town) role is revealed, town will find it much harder to believe you. If it comes down to it I'll have on choice but to vote you, since I know 100% I'm town and only have a strong feeling (~75%) that you are.

I'd urge you to reconsider your current play. I'm sure if I can figure out the above then there are others who can see more.

Skoffin is bang on the money in describing me, although I keep forgetting he exists because he barely posts. I'll have to try and remind myself to look for red text.

Hackett's role during the first game is basically to serve as a bureaucrat and act as the Alliance's military representative on the Citadel, he doesn't do anything that one would really describe as tracking at all during this time. Whereas...

Garrus Vakarian is a turian, formerly part of C-Sec's Investigation Division.

...is literally the first line of his entry on the wiki. Further:

He was responsible for the investigation of Saren Arterius, the Council's top Spectre, after the Alliance claimed Saren had gone rogue. Although Garrus was told that the investigation was over, he decided to defy the Executor's order and pursue another lead on his own.
-
Garrus has a personal mission to track down a criminal who got away from him.

Tracking down Saren to put a stop to him is Garrus' main objective throughout the entire first game.

Either we do have two trackers, Garrus is (as nobody has counterclaimed) somehow scum, or iAmCaffeine is lying.

Vote: iAmCaffeine

[iAmCaffeine]

Ragian's first and probably only good post. No surprise he's back to voting me after doing so easily earlier on. Why not go with my idea of outing reports tomorrow? Presumably there's a doc who can go on benga.

That is a stupid plan and you know it. Stop with the trying to direct town actions.

unvote vote caff

I don't see how that's a stupid plan.

Lmao HotShot, f*ck off mate. If you're a legit tracker, why would you ask me to claim a name after I'd already said I was a tracker? That makes no sense. If you really had a CC to me you would've announced it there and then, not fucked about with "half claim" bullshit. I don't know the characters well at all but I did a little research. Apparently Hackett had been looking for the Cerberus or something, so I guess it makes sense that I'd be a tracker. Garrus however is described as rash and disliking of rules in general, so the role doesn't feel like it would fit. I can think of other town power roles that would be suitable however, and there doesn't seem to be any question that Garrus would be a town player (unless I've missed a key part of the lore in my 1min search).

You also wanted to see my full claim, which you have, but you're withholding information and not providing a full claim. Double standards much?

Regardless, I figure you're just town who is really keen to see me lynched. The problem is your push is going to see you lose a valuable member of the time and only you knows I don't have an actual CC, most others will likely believe you unfortunately. What makes it worse is that later, when your true (likely town) role is revealed, town will find it much harder to believe you. If it comes down to it I'll have on choice but to vote you, since I know 100% I'm town and only have a strong feeling (~75%) that you are.

I'd urge you to reconsider your current play. I'm sure if I can figure out the above then there are others who can see more.

Skoffin is bang on the money in describing me, although I keep forgetting he exists because he barely posts. I'll have to try and remind myself to look for red text.

Hackett's role during the first game is basically to serve as a bureaucrat and act as the Alliance's military representative on the Citadel, he doesn't do anything that one would really describe as tracking at all during this time. Whereas...

Garrus Vakarian is a turian, formerly part of C-Sec's Investigation Division.

...is literally the first line of his entry on the wiki. Further:

He was responsible for the investigation of Saren Arterius, the Council's top Spectre, after the Alliance claimed Saren had gone rogue. Although Garrus was told that the investigation was over, he decided to defy the Executor's order and pursue another lead on his own.
-
Garrus has a personal mission to track down a criminal who got away from him.

Tracking down Saren to put a stop to him is Garrus' main objective throughout the entire first game.

Either we do have two trackers, Garrus is (as nobody has counterclaimed) somehow scum, or iAmCaffeine is lying.

Vote: iAmCaffeine

Hm, this looks bad. I just read about his personality and shit.

Oh well good luck.

[lord voldemort]

I still feel like Caff is town.

But vote caff we shall see

[iAmCaffeine]

Everyone keeps talking about how mafia will often try and lay under the radar and give out less information, yet here I am bearing all and I've probably posted the most in this game.

[dakky21]

Everyone keeps talking about how mafia will often try and lay under the radar and give out less information, yet here I am bearing all and I've probably posted the most in this game.

Actually current top 10 posters are

iAmCaffeine 79
Thorthoth 41
DirtyDishSoap 37
dakky21 36
Ragian 34
strike wolf 30
madmitch 26
DoomYoshi 23
lord voldemort 20
benga 19

so yeah, you're are the top poster, but does that means you're town? Not really.

[strike wolf]

The thing is the guy who claimed a fairly weak claim (the only game where Hackett has major significance is ME3. I mean my character isn't super important over all but they're an endearing character in their own weird way and I feel it's a bit better than Hackett.) And got counter claimed by Garrus (literally the first character who came to my mind when Caff initially claimed tracker) hasn't been lynched is kinda perplexing. The idea that Hotshot could be a different town role fixated on Caff is a beyond desperate suggestion from Caff as well. They're not going to counter claim you as town if they aren't the role you claim.

Vote Caff

@Skoffin-Ill take that as a compliment. It's too bad a lot of your post suggests skimming.

So general reads:

Lean town as of day 1 (doesn't exclude them from being potential recruits):

1. Hotshot-now claimed Garrus. Has acted town imo.
2. Benga-claimed Jailer. Seems to know town info.
3. Samlen-Seems to know town info.
4. Thor-this may sound odd but his reaction to say he would stop posting much after pressure to post more player related info isn't what I would expect from scum. I would expect scum to be more inclined in satisfying what town wants when attention starts piling onto them.

Everyone else:

1. Chu- I feel like he has made good points. I am not ready to declare him town.
2. Doom-same as Chu.
3. Rage-I think he's playing mostly to his meta. Not ready to say one way or the other.
4. Skittles-youve said things I've agreed with but have also said a couple things that have made me raise my eyebrows. I do kind of agree that the wa you brought about the day 1 question about you was a bit odd.
5. Mitch is mitch-ywah. I don't know what to think on him.
6. Skoffin-post more please. Even with slight skimming or forgetfulness issues, I liked her last post but the rest is lacking. Especially when she kind of made a half-attempt at a post when she first came back.
7. Pika-not posting. Claimed to have not gotten a win con. Hasn't done anything to make me think town.
8. Mm-I don't know your meta. I don't know what to think of you. Need to reread.
9. Dakky-hus whole back and forth with Thor where he threatened he was ready to vote him at least twice but didn't struck me as odd. It was kind of like he was trying to build suspicion on Thor but really just sitting on the side lines to see if he could get actual momentum for it.
10. Tails-whwn did he last post? I kind of forgot he was in the game.
11. Lord voldemort-mostly neutral overall but generally okay with what he's said that I remenber.
12. Caff-probable scum. Let's lynch.

[Thorthoth]

My thoughts, as far as I understand them...

So what happens if the town loses a tracker?
I understand that it is an important investigative role and I'm guessing it becomes more important later when their are just a few prime suspects.

Is the the tracker so important that the scum will now try to eliminate the tracker? Won't both Caff and Hotshot now be targets? How would the town work around not having a tracker? Is there another role that would protect a tracker but still allow him to track? Is that what a doctor would do?

There seems to be a good case building against Caff, though I'm not sure I believe or understand all the fine points. Maybe it's a just a bandwagon, but I do feel a lynching would make the game go forwards. That may or may not be a good reason.

The ability to test both Caff and Hotshot seems like another way to go. if there is a way that nobody can lie or cheat. The only ways I can think of involve DDS and that might not be within the rules.

This whole idea of forcing a player to claim is very powerful. I'm kind of amazed that both caff and Hotshot didn't just take the Fifth. IN FACT, it does make me wonder if both of them aren't lying (at least partially) because one you truthfully announce your role what is there left for you but to take the consequences that the role would deserve. The opposite extreme would be to demand everyone state their role or be lynched but OBVIOUSLY I can think of a dozen ways that would get massively screwed up.

I am trying to look at other aspects and players but most of it just comes off as unsubstantiated hearsay or bluffing. Skittles suggested some different ideas but I'm not sure what to make of them so I won't summarize or analyze. Read his posts if you're interested.

BOTTOM LINE: I am strongly leaning on voting for caff, but maybe somebody will explain or reveal something in the next day or two that will change my mind, so for now, I'm going to wait.

[Skoffin]

@Skoffin-Ill take that as a compliment. It's too bad a lot of your post suggests skimming.
6. Skoffin-post more please. Even with slight skimming or forgetfulness issues, I liked her last post but the rest is lacking. Especially when she kind of made a half-attempt at a post when she first came back.

Excuse me? How dare you sir. I am highly offended you dirty donut. My post was a masterpiece that only required one drug in my system to write. It was perfect and I will not tolerate this shameful attempt to mask its brilliant. Shame.



Now then lads, it is perfectly plausible for there to be two trackers in this game; they just would not be of the same alignment. So one of these two must be an eviiiiil tracker; I wager that Caff claimed his actual role and just tried to fake a name for it. Hotshot is certainly not the type to jump in and attempt to counterclaim someone if he is scum. That leaves hotshot as our town tracker, and caff as scum-sided. If caff does turn out to be a scum tracker then my fircoal theory still stands and I'll put the likely scumteam as Fircoal, caff and mitch, other possible contenders probably among pika and masket.

Vote caff

[Skoffin]

I'll amend that; I'm adding Thor as a possible scummy, there is something funny about his writing style that I can't explain right now.

[Thorthoth]

I'll amend that; I'm adding Thor as a possible scummy, there is something funny about his writing style that I can't explain right now.

No, no please do explain... an while you're at it, explain about fircoal and mitch too. Just pointing fingers at names is meaningless to me.

[HotShot53]

My thoughts, as far as I understand them...

So what happens if the town loses a tracker?
I understand that it is an important investigative role and I'm guessing it becomes more important later when their are just a few prime suspects.

Is the the tracker so important that the scum will now try to eliminate the tracker? Won't both Caff and Hotshot now be targets? How would the town work around not having a tracker? Is there another role that would protect a tracker but still allow him to track? Is that what a doctor would do?

There seems to be a good case building against Caff, though I'm not sure I believe or understand all the fine points. Maybe it's a just a bandwagon, but I do feel a lynching would make the game go forwards. That may or may not be a good reason.

The ability to test both Caff and Hotshot seems like another way to go. if there is a way that nobody can lie or cheat. The only ways I can think of involve DDS and that might not be within the rules.

This whole idea of forcing a player to claim is very powerful. I'm kind of amazed that both caff and Hotshot didn't just take the Fifth. IN FACT, it does make me wonder if both of them aren't lying (at least partially) because one you truthfully announce your role what is there left for you but to take the consequences that the role would deserve. The opposite extreme would be to demand everyone state their role or be lynched but OBVIOUSLY I can think of a dozen ways that would get massively screwed up.

I am trying to look at other aspects and players but most of it just comes off as unsubstantiated hearsay or bluffing. Skittles suggested some different ideas but I'm not sure what to make of them so I won't summarize or analyze. Read his posts if you're interested.

BOTTOM LINE: I am strongly leaning on voting for caff, but maybe somebody will explain or reveal something in the next day or two that will change my mind, so for now, I'm going to wait.

A tracker is an important investigative role, not as important as a cop, but still puts me at risk now. That's why I tried to get caff lynched without claiming.
And this is frontier justice here, not the court system... if when under pressure you plead the 5th, you will be lynched because it's assumed you're hiding something. There is a saying of "lynch all liars", so being caught in any kind of a lie will also usually get your lynched.

As a FYI to all, this week I'm at WBC playing board games from about 9 am to midnight every day for a week straight... so I'll only be able to check in late at night or early in the morning, and not much time then. But hopefully this day will end soon and then I won't miss much at night.

[Skittles!]

To answer skittlez question earlier: can you tell me how it is good for town for the doctor to save your scumbuddy so that you a) know where the doctor is going and b) know don't have to worry about a vig.

1) doctor can do whatever they want, but if they want to win they would save some of the most important town roles. As a tracker is a very important role of they manage to get enough info, then it really is in the doctors and towns best interest to protect that role at least once.

2) the fact there weren't any kills night one suggests there isn't a vig or serial killer. However, there is a slight possibility that with caff being jailed and the person that the doctor targeted was also saved from a kill.

3) caff isn't my buddy lol, just because I didn't vote before the counterclaim happened doesn't mean anything. There were too many variables with benga claiming he just jailed Caff - remember how jailor protects and roleblocks someone? There was a chance that benga actually saved Caff from being killed, as I have mentioned before during the day. Obviously not the case now, but there was a chance of that happening.

I'll amend that; I'm adding Thor as a possible scummy, there is something funny about his writing style that I can't explain right now.

I think it's the flowing questions that makes it seem like you're reading a short story