Lord of the Rings mafia [Town wins]

[pmchugh]

let me get this straight....

people are voting for Karl because he is trying to persuade people to vote for someone he thinks is scummy?

I find that pretty scummy.

I am not. I am voting for him because he is trying to start/continue a very poor bandwagon. He pretty much said he wanted to get Mr. Squirrel to claim:

first, let's see who Mr. Squirrel is.

His only presented reason was that Mr. Squirrel had voted for MM

And you dodged my question, do you think mr. squirrel is suspicious? If yes to what degree.

[william18]

william and sam_levi,
let me say point out that if the lynch on Minister Macket was set up by bandits who knew that he was Gandalf, which is possible, then it is most likely that Mr. Squirrel was one of the ones who did it.
if however the lynch on MM was just a messup by the town, which is very likely, then the other possibility is that the mafia just waited and let that happen (which would make you two pretty suspicious).



so the way i see it there are two possibilities:
1)the mafia targetted gandalf and succeeded to lynch him.
2)the mafia sat back and did nothing
my suggestion:
1)we try and put pressure on Mr. Squirrel. i still haven't heard a good story from him.
2)when he has a satisfying story we focus on the people who didn't vote.
this way we should have both possibilities covered.

which case do you think happened sam_levi and william?

I have to agree with this post.

william and sam_levi,
let me say point out that if the lynch on Minister Macket was set up by bandits who knew that he was Gandalf, which is possible, then it is most likely that Mr. Squirrel was one of the ones who did it.
if however the lynch on MM was just a messup by the town, which is very likely, then the other possibility is that the mafia just waited and let that happen (which would make you two pretty suspicious).



so the way i see it there are two possibilities:
1)the mafia targetted gandalf and succeeded to lynch him.
2)the mafia sat back and did nothing
my suggestion:
1)we try and put pressure on Mr. Squirrel. i still haven't heard a good story from him.
2)when he has a satisfying story we focus on the people who didn't vote.
this way we should have both possibilities covered.

which case do you think happened sam_levi and william?

If scum knew he was Gandalf why not wait till night and kill him then? It would be 100 times simpler than trying to get him lynched. unvote vote karl

If you can give me some reasons other than; Mr Squirrel voted for MM therefore he must be scum then I will gladly unvote.

[william18]

let me get this straight....

people are voting for Karl because he is trying to persuade people to vote for someone he thinks is scummy?

I find that pretty scummy.

Not necessarily, it's they way he's persueing him. If he didn't try to justify this lynch with faulty logic I wouldn't have voted him.

[Thezzaruz]

What william said. I'm not voting for karel yet but he needs to explain himself better or that will change.

[Mr. Squirrel]

Karel, you keep asking for a satisfying story out of me, but I've already told my story twice. MM looked scummy and I voted for him. I made a mistake, like all townies do occasionally. If you want to keep pushing me for more, you aren't gonna get anywhere. There was no ulterior motives or plotting involved. Just some scummy actions on MM's side and some bad luck with the time restrictions.

Honestly, I don't see a strong case against karel so I won't place my vote. He is being awfully aggressive but there have been many townies in the past, including myself, who have acted aggressively when they thought someone was scum.

[Suspect101]

Karel, you keep asking for a satisfying story out of me, but I've already told my story twice. MM looked scummy and I voted for him. I made a mistake, like all townies do occasionally. If you want to keep pushing me for more, you aren't gonna get anywhere. There was no ulterior motives or plotting involved. Just some scummy actions on MM's side and some bad luck with the time restrictions.

Honestly, I don't see a strong case against karel so I won't place my vote. He is being awfully aggressive but there have been many townies in the past, including myself, who have acted aggressively when they thought someone was scum.

I do not think that Karl is scum. The same way I do not that pmc is scum. I think the really agressive players are not scum, because they have solid claims. This is Karl's first game and people want him lynched for going after people a certain way? I find that really troublesome and looks like they want to lynch a noob for makin a noob mistake. I have my eyes on those people.

To answer pmc: I have seen no change is Mrsquirrel to warrant the remival of my vote. he has done nothing different as he even claims in this post, so why would my vote change? Are you trying to build more straw me to burn me with?

[pmchugh]

Karel, you keep asking for a satisfying story out of me, but I've already told my story twice. MM looked scummy and I voted for him. I made a mistake, like all townies do occasionally. If you want to keep pushing me for more, you aren't gonna get anywhere. There was no ulterior motives or plotting involved. Just some scummy actions on MM's side and some bad luck with the time restrictions.

Honestly, I don't see a strong case against karel so I won't place my vote. He is being awfully aggressive but there have been many townies in the past, including myself, who have acted aggressively when they thought someone was scum.

I do not think that Karl is scum. The same way I do not that pmc is scum. I think the really agressive players are not scum, because they have solid claims. This is Karl's first game and people want him lynched for going after people a certain way? I find that really troublesome and looks like they want to lynch a noob for makin a noob mistake. I have my eyes on those people.

To answer pmc: I have seen no change is Mrsquirrel to warrant the remival of my vote. he has done nothing different as he even claims in this post, so why would my vote change? Are you trying to build more straw me to burn me with?

I am intrested because if I were scum I would have killed him last night as I percieved him to be the most obviously town player. And how has Mr. Squirrel been passive in comparison to say thezz, by your logic thez is much more scummy.

Sometimes I think you have good ideas suspect but apply them wrongly.

[spiesr]

Well, I still find the original reason that I voted for Mr. Squirrel (That he voted for MM to save his scum buddy pmc from being lynched) to be a valid possibility. However, there is no real evidence either way on this and at this point there can't really be. Mr. Squirrel has succeeded in going through through the day so far without being scummy so I am willing to unvote for the time being...

[spiesr]

I am intrested because if I were scum I would have killed him last night as I percieved him to be the most obviously town player. And how has Mr. Squirrel been passive in comparison to say thezz, by your logic thez is much more scummy.

Unless he was your scum buddy, but this is WIFOM so why did you even bring it up?

[Iliad]

Though what are the likely 3rd party roles? I would have guessed gollum and treebeard (with the possibility of one more) but as treebeard seems to belong to the same faction as gandalf I'm not sure what characters there are left for 3rd party roles. (but then again you already posted something to explain that )

Could there be both Gollum and Smeagol? Also, we talked about this a bit on day 1 and if you look back you will see some discussion and names thrown aorund include Forimier and elf people.

@ Mod:
Mass Prod Please...

Thats impossible, Gollum and Smeagol are the same person.

Maybe the other hobbit-Feagol was it? Can't remember right now.

Anyway vote karel his connection to nag was scummy, but his attack of Squirrel stinks of him just trying to switch the attention off him to someone else.

I don't care if he's new or not, if he looks scummy to me I will suspect him.

[Stroop]

=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=
Vote count

Mr. Squirrel - 2 (Suspect101, karelpietertje)
karelpietertje - 4 (sam_levi_11, william18, pmchugh, Iliad)
Thezzaruz - 1 (Clive)

Not voting: Simon Viavant, Mr. Squirrel, Thezzaruz, Falkomagno, AceArtemis, spiesr

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Day 2 will end approximately 152 hours from now
=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=

[Suspect101]

Karel, you keep asking for a satisfying story out of me, but I've already told my story twice. MM looked scummy and I voted for him. I made a mistake, like all townies do occasionally. If you want to keep pushing me for more, you aren't gonna get anywhere. There was no ulterior motives or plotting involved. Just some scummy actions on MM's side and some bad luck with the time restrictions.

Honestly, I don't see a strong case against karel so I won't place my vote. He is being awfully aggressive but there have been many townies in the past, including myself, who have acted aggressively when they thought someone was scum.

I do not think that Karl is scum. The same way I do not that pmc is scum. I think the really agressive players are not scum, because they have solid claims. This is Karl's first game and people want him lynched for going after people a certain way? I find that really troublesome and looks like they want to lynch a noob for makin a noob mistake. I have my eyes on those people.

To answer pmc: I have seen no change is Mrsquirrel to warrant the remival of my vote. he has done nothing different as he even claims in this post, so why would my vote change? Are you trying to build more straw me to burn me with?

I am intrested because if I were scum I would have killed him last night as I percieved him to be the most obviously town player. And how has Mr. Squirrel been passive in comparison to say thezz, by your logic thez is much more scummy.

Sometimes I think you have good ideas suspect but apply them wrongly.

So the person who looks like town the most, should have been killed at night but wasn't? And you have thought of no reasons why Mr.Squirrel was not killed?

I think you need to think through things a little bit more before you try and call me out on my ideas.

[pmchugh]

I would have personally kiled him but not everyone thinks alike. Nag is always a decent target and he had done nothing scummy. If Mr. Squirrel is scum then he is the best newbie I have ever seen. Your points are fair enough if it was illy or will that was acting townie but not on a newbie. Anyway this is kinda pointless since it is opinion anyway.

My point is that there is no case on Mr. Squirrel at all.

[Suspect101]

lol, so you know mr.squirrel personally? there are no other sites that people could play mafia on? he has never played mafia before? he hs no previous knowledge that if you are scum, try not to get noticed?

my point is, how do you know mr.squirrel is a newbie?

Also lets assume perfect information and we know who is a new player and who isn't. I could use the exact same argument on the case against karl, yet you are voting for him...... interesting double standard.

[pmchugh]

1. Not enough new players.

I'd like to learn how to play, but it seems pretty confusing. I read the Mafia and You thread so I understand the mechanics behind the game but as I read through the threads of some of the games here, it becomes clear that this game is far more confusing than the Mafia and You thread made it out to be. Perhaps you could create a couple simple games for newbies and have a few veterans join to help us figure it out. During the game they could sort of coach the new players on what to look for and what not to do if you want to stay alive.

Mr. Squirrel said this in a non game thread, it would seem unlikely he is lying here.

The difference between Mr. Squirrel and karel is that Mr S. looks like newbie town, looknig town is hard enough for vets never mind newbie's so he would have to be an extremely good player. However karel looks scummy to me, which is not hard to do.

[Suspect101]

1. Not enough new players.

I'd like to learn how to play, but it seems pretty confusing. I read the Mafia and You thread so I understand the mechanics behind the game but as I read through the threads of some of the games here, it becomes clear that this game is far more confusing than the Mafia and You thread made it out to be. Perhaps you could create a couple simple games for newbies and have a few veterans join to help us figure it out. During the game they could sort of coach the new players on what to look for and what not to do if you want to stay alive.

Mr. Squirrel said this in a non game thread, it would seem unlikely he is lying here.

The difference between Mr. Squirrel and karel is that Mr S. looks like newbie town, looknig town is hard enough for vets never mind newbie's so he would have to be an extremely good player. However karel looks scummy to me, which is not hard to do.

I disagree. looking town is hard for agressive players. Hince on Day 1 you and I both were going at each other. Mr.Squirrel is not agressive, so no one is really looking at him, and could be beacuse we have been taking up most of the thread. I think you need to look deeper to find what you really need. People have different personalities that do come into play online. I just see karl as an agressive player in his first game and getting called out for trying to convience people what he believes in. I find this to be a town trait, I find that the quiet players who post just to post and make no really contributions to the game to be a scum trait.

[pmchugh]

I disagree. looking town is hard for agressive players. Hince on Day 1 you and I both were going at each other. Mr.Squirrel is not agressive, so no one is really looking at him, and could be beacuse we have been taking up most of the thread. I think you need to look deeper to find what you really need. People have different personalities that do come into play online. I just see karl as an agressive player in his first game and getting called out for trying to convience people what he believes in. I find this to be a town trait, I find that the quiet players who post just to post and make no really contributions to the game to be a scum trait.

Your confusing posting style with individual roles. It is harder to look town when aggressive, but what do you do when a player is always agressive? How do you know that karel playing his first game would not actually be more aggresive if town? Mr. Squirell is not passive, he must be top 5 for post count in this game.

Dont' get me worng I like the way karel is posting and saying what he believes, but his reasoning is poor and this is scummy even if he is new. Personally I still think you are more scummy for going after Mr. S but attacking you would be pointless as shown earlier in the thread.

Anyway I am gonig to shut up for a bit, me and suspect are taking over agian, if only everyone was as active as us...

[Mr. Squirrel]

I find that the quiet players who post just to post and make no really contributions to the game to be a scum trait.

I have contributed where possible. Since the last few pages have all been trying to condemn me, there is very little for me to contribute there. Especially since I have given my defense numerous times. I have nothing more to add to it unless you can give another reason than "Squirrel voted MM so he must be scum". If you do, I will be glad to answer to it.

ol, so you know mr.squirrel personally? there are no other sites that people could play mafia on? he has never played mafia before? he hs no previous knowledge that if you are scum, try not to get noticed?

my point is, how do you know mr.squirrel is a newbie?

This is my very first mafia game. I had a bunch of friends at school a few years ago who were really into it so I knew the general idea behind the game, but I had never actually played one myself. I'm not expecting this to clear my name, but I figure I'd set the record straight.

So the person who looks like town the most, should have been killed at night but wasn't? And you have thought of no reasons why Mr.Squirrel was not killed?

Could it be because I, in fact, am new and the mafia sees me as no threat to them? Most of you vets have played games with each other so you know each other's style and attitude when playing the different roles. Karel and I have no idea about you guys so we are much less of a threat to the scum as the vets (like nag). The way I see it, the mafia will continue to target the veteran players and leave karel and I alone. This serves a double purpose as it also makes us look scummy since we are never targeted.

[spiesr]

So the person who looks like town the most, should have been killed at night but wasn't? And you have thought of no reasons why Mr.Squirrel was not killed?

Technically Clive was considered the "most town" but was not killed either. Possible these things are because the "most town" player tends to be a target for watchers and doctors...

[Suspect101]

Wow, this is hilarious.

When new players are scum, and they get pressured, they panic, unvote, and do all kinds of crazy stuff.

Karl is sticking to his guns, not backing down, and staying the course. He is speaking his mind and explaining himself(I thought rather well). The only reason I think he would do this is if he had a solid claim. If he is scum, then in my mind he is playing town to a T. This is a classic case of scum trying to build a strawman case against a new player for speaking their mind.

Do not be alarmed if Karl gets forced to claim and he comes up town that my vote imediately goes on someone on his bandwagon. It seems that the people on his case are certain that he is scum and should be willing to except their fate if he is not. I do not want to hear any BS that "it is the best thing we have to go on" because that is exactly what it is. BS. People went after MM yesterday for what I thought was a joke of a reason, and I think the same thing is happening today.

If he has some bogus claim, I will be the first to jump on board and lynch him. Feel free to try and make me look scummy because of this statement, but I have explaind myself and my reasons. And I have a good feeling that at least 1 of you is scum

[pmchugh]

Wow, this is hilarious.

When new players are scum, and they get pressured, they panic, unvote, and do all kinds of crazy stuff.

Karl is sticking to his guns, not backing down, and staying the course. He is speaking his mind and explaining himself(I thought rather well). The only reason I think he would do this is if he had a solid claim.

F*ck, I can't argue with that. I think your right and I was wrong. Man that was hard to say...unvote

I am not entirely convinced of your (suspects) townieness though as often scum defend town that they think will be lynched so they can clear themselves.

I think I will reread, I was following in karl becasue I believed he was the best option but chances are he is prob town so I think it's time I looked for someone new.

[Simon Viavant]

Guys, I'm sorry, my internet connection wouldn't work for about 4 days and I missed a bunch of turns and yada-yada.

Anyway, suspect usually starts hounding everyone when he's scum, which is pretty much what he's doing now.

Mr. squirrel also seems suspicious though with his voting record and all, but it could be newb-ness.

I think the thing suspect would do if he was scum is go for mr. squirrel, which he's doing.

So the person who looks like town the most, should have been killed at night but wasn't? And you have thought of no reasons why Mr.Squirrel was not killed?

I think you need to think through things a little bit more before you try and call me out on my ideas.

Maybe because he's an easy lynch?

Vote suspect

[Suspect101]

Guys, I'm sorry, my internet connection wouldn't work for about 4 days and I missed a bunch of turns and yada-yada.

Anyway, suspect usually starts hounding everyone when he's scum, which is pretty much what he's doing now.

Mr. squirrel also seems suspicious though with his voting record and all, but it could be newb-ness.

I think the thing suspect would do if he was scum is go for mr. squirrel, which he's doing.

So the person who looks like town the most, should have been killed at night but wasn't? And you have thought of no reasons why Mr.Squirrel was not killed?

I think you need to think through things a little bit more before you try and call me out on my ideas.

Maybe because he's an easy lynch?

Vote suspect

he it comes..........

[sam_levi_11]

Anyway vote karel his connection to nag was scummy, but his attack of Squirrel stinks of him just trying to switch the attention off him to someone else.

I don't care if he's new or not, if he looks scummy to me I will suspect him.

I agree with this, why should we ignore scumminess because the player is new, otherwise we would never lynch a new player. If he acts scummy, he should expect to arrouse suspicion.

[william18]

Though what are the likely 3rd party roles? I would have guessed gollum and treebeard (with the possibility of one more) but as treebeard seems to belong to the same faction as gandalf I'm not sure what characters there are left for 3rd party roles. (but then again you already posted something to explain that )

Could there be both Gollum and Smeagol? Also, we talked about this a bit on day 1 and if you look back you will see some discussion and names thrown aorund include Forimier and elf people.

@ Mod:
Mass Prod Please...

Thats impossible, Gollum and Smeagol are the same person.

Maybe the other hobbit-Feagol was it? Can't remember right now.

I assume you mean Deagol, the person Gollum murdered to get the ring. I am almost positive he is not in this game.