Get Rich from the Bank [5/12] Town Wins!

[MoB Deadly]

I know I can't do voices "beyond the grave" but this I still read this forum to learn mafia better. Is it normal for the "husband" to be third party and for the "wife" to be town?

first time I have seen them two different alignments. But I dont think its extremely uncommon. Whats more uncommon is that deuce was revived.


Nice post sundog, do you have any defense to the post I made about your claim?

[Iron Butterfly]

Here is how Town can win in the 1 killer left scenario. 100% sure.

This is through my eyes as a Vanilla Townie. I have to be able to prove I am who I am and complete the end game.

First Town Never Lies, Mob and Sundog have claimed they did not kill last night

So that leaves Deuce, Cat, Lietz and I.

I am VT

Leaves cat and Lietz
Deuce was revived at end so it is safe to say he did not kill anyone.

one of them is Town Doc or at least protective.(Cat and Lietz). I am counting on the fact that one of them was responsible for the other night death. If not then I am at a loss.

If one of them is Doc/Town and the other Killed someone (by a Town Night Action) that leaves one more Town player dead, which could only come from Mob or SD.

One death came from Cat or Lietz. One death from Mob or SD.

How do we win in the 1 killer scenario?

Have Sundog Kill me during the day. Right now. His action will kill me and reveal me as Town and of course reveal him as Town as well. Two Town will die BUT the remaining folks can lynch. Cat and Lietz can be 100% sure Mob is the killer because he lied. One of the Night kills had to have come from Cat or Lietz.

Run the scenario from your own perspective. Make beleive you are VT and you have no idea who I am.

I fully beleive we have a 1 killer scenario and will sacrifice myself.

[Sundog308]

BOOM, caught Sundog in a lie! I will address all other posts later today but I am very sure Sundog is Mafia now. His claim "is missing details" as catnip would say.

Here notice where the quotations are:

As far as claiming goes, I know I can't quote the PM, but here is the summary:
I am "Suicidal Hero". It seems to me like it's a vigilante role, but I can kill during either day or night phase. The exception is that when I make the kill, I die as well.

Now he character claims: and notice the quotations again

If by name, you mean my town association, then yes: "Town Martyr" I looked it up when I got the role, but it seemed more vigilante to me because I can kill during either night or day phase. Kinda like I'm a hybrid creation. (Speaking of hybrids, anyone seen the tv show, Invasion?)

Very inconsistent. What does his role say "Town Martyr" "Suicidal Hero" I dont think so at all!!!!

Wait, your logic for catching me in a lie is because you misunderstood me the first time, and then misinterpreted me when I explained myself?

My first claim said "Suicidal Hero". You thought I was giving you my role, such as "Town Role Blocker", "Town Cop", or "Mafia Bomber", which we have already seen before. (And yes, I know I just put quotes around things that I guess shouldn't have quotes, it's the way I write when I refer to something that was written elsewhere) "Suicidal Hero", is, in fact, my name.

I then replied to your request, explaining that I thought you meant when you said name (since I had already given it), you meant my town association, or role, then yes, I have a role. It is: "Town Martyr"

So my PM, without quoting it (if it's possible to quote, but not quote something), said: "Suicidal Hero - Town Martyr"

[MoB Deadly]

This was exactly what I was going for, but I was hoping Cat or Leitz would suggest it. because you are already town in my eyes.

fastposted by sundog

I still think hes lying. I googled 4-5 different searches, I see a couple Town Martyrs, but nothing like you describe it.

[catnipdreams]

Ack! I have several hours of real life things to do today, starting now - don't anyone kill anyone else before I get a chance to catch up, ok?

[Iron Butterfly]

BOOM, caught Sundog in a lie! I will address all other posts later today but I am very sure Sundog is Mafia now. His claim "is missing details" as catnip would say.

Here notice where the quotations are:

As far as claiming goes, I know I can't quote the PM, but here is the summary:
I am "Suicidal Hero". It seems to me like it's a vigilante role, but I can kill during either day or night phase. The exception is that when I make the kill, I die as well.

Now he character claims: and notice the quotations again

If by name, you mean my town association, then yes: "Town Martyr" I looked it up when I got the role, but it seemed more vigilante to me because I can kill during either night or day phase. Kinda like I'm a hybrid creation. (Speaking of hybrids, anyone seen the tv show, Invasion?)

Very inconsistent. What does his role say "Town Martyr" "Suicidal Hero" I dont think so at all!!!!

Wait, your logic for catching me in a lie is because you misunderstood me the first time, and then misinterpreted me when I explained myself?

My first claim said "Suicidal Hero". You thought I was giving you my role, such as "Town Role Blocker", "Town Cop", or "Mafia Bomber", which we have already seen before. (And yes, I know I just put quotes around things that I guess shouldn't have quotes, it's the way I write when I refer to something that was written elsewhere) "Suicidal Hero", is, in fact, my name.

I then replied to your request, explaining that I thought you meant when you said name (since I had already given it), you meant my town association, or role, then yes, I have a role. It is: "Town Martyr"

So my PM, without quoting it (if it's possible to quote, but not quote something), said: "Suicidal Hero - Town Martyr"

I no where suggested I was trying to catch you in a lie. Can you show me where suggested you where lieing? If anything I was trying to plot a winning game from my perspectve as a Vanilla Townie. I din not directly call you a liar. I suggested either you or Mob are lieing.

[Iron Butterfly]

LOL ignore above post. I have my wife in my ear yelling at me to take my son out to walk his fog. I thought SD was respomding.
guilty for skimming.

[Iron Butterfly]

Ack! I have several hours of real life things to do today, starting now - don't anyone kill anyone else before I get a chance to catch up, ok?

LOL the whole endgame scenario relies on your participation and help. So nothing will happen without your input or help.
READ my single killer endgame scenario. We can win this if I am right.

[Leitz]

Ack! I have several hours of real life things to do today, starting now - don't anyone kill anyone else before I get a chance to catch up, ok?

Although I don't believe that to happen, I'd friendly ask not to hurry to do anything for a few more hours until I can fully reread the last page and have some more time to concentrate on it. I'll be back in an hour or two with a better post!

[Leitz]

... Iron Butterfly case scenario ...

I'm trying to follow your logic and reasoning here. Let's assume the day lynch of sundog on you:

Case 1: You both were telling the truth and die
Case 2: You told the truth, sundog lied
Case 3: You're not telling the truth and sundog was correct:
Case 4: You're both not telling the truth

Case 1
We lose two town people, leaving 4 players left: Deuce, catnip, MoB and myself. If catnip and Deuce are town then indeed MoB was lying and he is mafia/third party. BUT, what if Mob wasn't the one lying but catnip? We all consider her to be town, but can we be certain about that? If we lose another town in N3 that leaves 2 town against one non-town. With Deuces useless inputs that is a risky situation to be in!

Case 2
You die, town down one. Sundogs doesn't so either his true identity will be revealed (I think) or we lynch him because he fake claimed. Town then wins if he is mafia. If he is third party/town something else he dies and we will lose another town at night.

Case 3
You die, most likely as mafia or third party (unless you're town and claimed another role to protect power role, but as you said town never lies so I trust you won't contradict yourself). Sundog dies too. Town game win if you're mafia, or town down one, even two after the night lynch.

Case 4
Will your roles then be revealed if nothing happens?? I doubt it, so we will know both of you are the remaining anti-town people.


Wow, this is getting confusing! Somebody try and follow me here and figure things out with me!

[Iron Butterfly]

I'm trying to follow your logic and reasoning here. Let's assume the day lynch of sundog on you:

Case 1: You both were telling the truth and die
Case 2: You told the truth, sundog lied
Case 3: You're not telling the truth and sundog was correct:
Case 4: You're both not telling the truth

=================


Go back to the Night kills. We have 2 people dead. Someone killed them. SD and Mob says they did not. I am VT and I did not. Deuce was revived so he did not. That leaves you and Cat. un accounted for.

You and Cat could not have killed both unless there is no doctor in game.There is no way we do not have a protective role. So if one of you is a doc only one of you could have killed someone. that would leave Sundog or Mob.

Scenario1) If we are both telling the truth and we know that there is a Doc and the other was able to NK then we know Mob is the killer.

Scenario 2) The only way we will know Sundog is lying is if he either cant follow through on his action or we lynch him and we discover he is Town. The only way we can know the truth is for SD to follow through on his ability and to kill me.

Scenario 3) Lets look at Sundogs Role Claim. At its optimum he will sacrifice himself and kill me. We lose a Town but kill kill the bad guy. the game would be over as you got the bad guy right?

scenario 4) My scenaario rests in weather Sundog will use his ability on me. The only way I can prove who I am is by sacrifing myself to Sundog.

The only way this will work is if we know if it was Town who killed one of the Players last night.

If there are Two Killers Town is in Dire straights,

With 6 players we need 4 votes to Lynch.

Deuce is MIA and the Mafia wont let the Vote go to a lynch if one of them is targeted. So even if All 3 of us vote we will not be able to lynch with out duece. we will go to night and get picked off.

If two 3rd party are left its same scenario. We will not be able to lynch anyone,It will go to night and get we will get picked off.

If one Mafia and one Third party are left? that gets a little bit complicated. We would have to be 100% sure of who we lynch and hope for night.

If we can determine that Town used a Night kill ability that would mean there is only one killer. If there is only one killer we can endgame him by having SD kill me

[catnipdreams]

I keep going back to the night scene, to try and understand exactly what we have for killers. Questions: does the Mafia ALWAYS kill with a gun, and who kills with a knife? I'm reluctant to delve into the day kill idea until I feel more confident that I understand what happened during the night...

[Iron Butterfly]

I keep going back to the night scene, to try and understand exactly what we have for killers. Questions: does the Mafia ALWAYS kill with a gun, and who kills with a knife? I'm reluctant to delve into the day kill idea until I feel more confident that I understand what happened during the night...

What we have for a killer is not important. WHO the killers are is.

Does mafia always kill with a gun? Usually its not an issue and doesnt even matter. If you are concerned about Mob being bullet proof only the Poisoner, who is dead would have killed him. Its semantics.

Please explain why you feel this is important.

[catnipdreams]

We might have one killer left, or two killers left...

One killer left:

Jonty kills Maximum, and then is killed by "unknown killer"


Two killers left:

"unknown killer one" kills maximum, blends back in to the crowd
"unknown killer two" kills Jonty, blends back in to the crowd

Jonty was killed by a knife, but how Maximum was killed was not specified. Which one was the mafia kill, which one was the 3rd party or town kill? Will knowing who can use what weapons give us a clue? I'm not sure. Are we looking for a lone 3rd party/town killer, or maybe a mafia killer and a 3rd party/town killer?

The daytime kill/role claim verification could possibly take out two town players, leaving four people left: one 3rd party (deuce), and one town/two killers, or two town/one killer...

We also need to understand the mechanics of how sundog's day kill works - do we find out immediately, with more time to discuss the results, or do we get thrown right into night? Do we get to have a lynch after the day kill?

[Iron Butterfly]

We might have one killer left, or two killers left...

One killer left:

Jonty kills Maximum, and then is killed by "unknown killer"


Two killers left:

"unknown killer one" kills maximum, blends back in to the crowd
"unknown killer two" kills Jonty, blends back in to the crowd

Jonty was killed by a knife, but how Maximum was killed was not specified. Which one was the mafia kill, which one was the 3rd party or town kill? Will knowing who can use what weapons give us a clue? I'm not sure. Are we looking for a lone 3rd party/town killer, or maybe a mafia killer and a 3rd party/town killer?

The daytime kill/role claim verification could possibly take out two town players, leaving four people left: one 3rd party (deuce), and one town/two killers, or two town/one killer...

We also need to understand the mechanics of how sundog's day kill works - do we find out immediately, with more time to discuss the results, or do we get thrown right into night? Do we get to have a lynch after the day kill?

I would be interested in knowing how Sun Dogs action works as well. I am assuming he PMs Sniper during day who he wants to kill. We are notified with a death scene of who SD killed. I would think the power of the role at its best is that the rest of the folks alive can still lynch someone.

[Iron Butterfly]

Cat you are also missing the BIG picture.

We may have a killer trapped in either Sun Dog or Mob as they both said they did not kill. Two people died. The only way it isnt either of them is if you and Lietz did both night kills.

One could easily say I am the killer, which is why if Sundog is telling the truth he can take me out.

I am willing to be killed for a Town victory.

How people can kill does not matter at this point. We need to finish this today so it does not go into night. I have set up a scenario where we can.

We need to be able to confirm weather one of the kills came from Town for this to work.

[catnipdreams]

I would like sundog to post with the details of how he kills during the day and how the game continues afterwards.

I would like MoB to explain why he did not find out the details of his bullet-proofness.

IB, I'm not ignoring your ideas at all, I just want to be sure we do this absolutely correctly.

Leitz, it may be getting to the point where we should claim - I'm just not sure - what do you think about it?

[Leitz]

I think we have to have the confirmation of sniper first that if we let Sundog kill you, we actually get to continue the day and not go over to night immediately. And if we get to see both roles after the day lynch would be nice to know too (in case one/both of you are lying).

fastposted by catnip

[Leitz]

I'm not sure if us claiming is going to get us any further. If we do we'll have all claimed. Any third party with a player objective will manage to succeed if he survives the lynches in D3. That could potentially be dangerous. I'm more keen to say we should follow IBs idea whose willingness to die for town does seem like a good plan, but only IF we know how day lynch works and roles our shown afterwards (like I said in my previous post).

[skillfusniper33]

If there is a day kill, you will also be able to lynch someone in that day. This is a pretty standard thing.

I will be looking for a replacement for Dueceswildd222 since he isn't recieving my prods, and doesn't seem to be looking on the site much anymore.

Vote Count
Sundog (2) - Mob, IB

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch

[Leitz]

Are you sure the vote count is correct sniper? I thought sundog and I had a vote on MoB?

[skillfusniper33]

Are you sure the vote count is correct sniper? I thought sundog and I had a vote on MoB?

I could have missed a few votes, I will double check it and get a new vote count up.

[skillfusniper33]

Are you sure the vote count is correct sniper? I thought sundog and I had a vote on MoB?

I could have missed a few votes, I will double check it and get a new vote count up.

Got it fixed now... Sorry I forgot to update my spreadsheet when I was reading through.

MoB (2) - Sundog, Leitz L-2
Sundog (2) - MoB - IB L-2

With 6 alive it takes 4 for a lynch

[Iron Butterfly]

I'm not sure if us claiming is going to get us any further. If we do we'll have all claimed. Any third party with a player objective will manage to succeed if he survives the lynches in D3. That could potentially be dangerous. I'm more keen to say we should follow IBs idea whose willingness to die for town does seem like a good plan, but only IF we know how day lynch works and roles our shown afterwards (like I said in my previous post).

You dont even need to claim. We just need to know if either you or cat where able to Night kill someone.

Deuce has been not been on site. So he could not do a night kill. His Rez is most likely part of his role.

[Iron Butterfly]

I take that back about deuce..I must be going senile. He was on site when he revived.