GODFATHER MAFIA - FINALLY OVER! CORLEONES WIN!!!

[ga7]

Ok, I haven't finished to read back but I'm afraid the day is coming to a close so I rather post in several parts even tho some things might not be relevant anymore as I still need to read the Fir case in depth, but it might help anyway if replacements come by to have a (subjective) summary.

Relevant info on pages 1-20:
-Militant's favorite number is 7, thus making him a good guy
-Firth has apparently a swearing PR, not sure which character would get that tho...
-SL and Jnd as bodyguard got targeted straight away. The daykillers are obviously experienced and will be a major PITA, which is why I have a tendency to want to find them out more than any other possible scum. Amongst the reactions after the daykills, the weirdest/out of style were Serbia's "Craziness abounds! What's all this already?!" (totally reading too far into it on purpose btw ), icedagger's "jesus christ" which reek of "Bwahaha oh shit I should make an useless post to react to my deed and not get suspected". (weak line of thought admitedly, but it worked in the past ) and Fir's "lol, and what is up with these day kills? Nag getting bored?" putting forward in further posts a questionnable hypothesis that the kills were not player-made.
-FOS Rebelman purely because he was defended by AD when a little wagon on him started. Fishy, as pointed out by Ex on page 18. This is a feeling later reinforced by an interesting contradiction by Nark:

All I'm saying, good sir ML, is that voting a person out because of his avatar which he was forced to put up due to a CC game loss is no reason to vote a man.

If you can find a real reason for me to vote him, I would have no trouble. But a bandwagon based on an avy?

I didn't know he was forced to use it, but regardless it was a random vote.

Unvote

Gatto was "A "button man" (soldier/hit man) under Capo Pete Clemenza and Vito's driver" (from wikipedia godfather cast descriptions). Could firth be considered mafia then?

Who in this game will not have some sort of affiliation with mafia?

In the movie and book, everyone is dirty, even the cops.

Then later on the Fir case:

This is very true. What is also true is that McClusky is the most evil sonofabitch around. Fircoal even admitted that was his name!

I can't believe that the town wouldn't vote to lynch the guy who has said he was one of the most corrupt cops in New York!

Unvote


I think Fircoal should be lynched, and we see what comes of it. McClusky was NEVER a pro-town cop in the book or movie.

So basically there's few if any "clean" looking roles out there but we should lynch any corrupt-looking role? Great logic. Will expand later on that.

[ga7]

Relevant info on pages 21-30
- There was some discussion about the babies, so my 2 cents (even tho I don't remember the whole story all that much but I'm good at covering my lack of knowledge by making up BS ) : it's likely that they would be growing Corleones, though not all might be bad (the daughter whose name I can't recall played by Sofia Coppola in the horrendous III for example). Which brings me to the theory that the actual scum right now might be little in numbers, if they will gain some in the future, compensated by the fact they have day-killing powers (and if there's a town day-killer, cut the crap already ><). It would also make sense if Nag wants the game to stretch along the eras in the movies to remove the possibility of a fast scum victory. I'm partaken by the possibility of only one or several mafia factions right now, but I fully agree with Neutrino's post on page 40 that the Corleone are scum, at least for the most part. Might be a shot in the dark, but I'm starting to think Fir could perfectly be town as albeit corrupt he was mostly anti-Corleone, and that AD actually slipped up there (this was pointed by GT on page 24 too).
- A lot of people theorize on the setup, which is good, but Nag's games are never easy to accurately guess (see his R&J, Heroes etc for people being misleaded about the setup 90% of the time ). You shouldn't expect any kind of "given" or easily translatable rendition of the movies/books here cause he'll screw with us regardless.
- FOS Icedagger for the whole thing on pages 26-29 about asking town PM infos. Might be nothing but it's a huge no-no in any case.

Man I hate to have so much to catch up ><

[kalishnikov]

Unvote, vote: Fir

I really don't think Fir should be our day 1 lynch, for reasons previously stated, but we do need a lynch today as this game is freakin huge and we know for a fact the scum (assumably) will get a minimum of 2 kills, probably more, and we can't go into day 2 without at least a role revealed.

I really hope I'm not right and Fir comes out as a town cop though, bad mojo to lynch a town cop day 1 besides the obvious reasons. If he comes out town FOS: / as I'd then think you were a scum cop trying to get a clean cop lynched. If Fir comes out scum, well done /, good hunch (trying to cover all the bases, I've got a feeling I won't see tomorrow).

[Serbia]

Well now seems like a good time to post, right after the obvious scum of the frog and the commie.

I'm going to have to go back and re-read, the thread blew up over the weekend. Fir seems a dangerous lynch, but I can't say for sure until I re-read. For now I'll keep my vote on icedagger until I see what's up.

-Serbia

[kalishnikov]

Well now seems like a good time to post, right after the obvious scum of the frog and the commie.

I'm going to have to go back and re-read, the thread blew up over the weekend. Fir seems a dangerous lynch, but I can't say for sure until I re-read. For now I'll keep my vote on icedagger until I see what's up.

-Serbia

lol it was about the perfect time for you to pop up, scum.

[ga7]

I'll try to finish rereading now but my general feeling is that it wouldn't be weird at all for Fir to be the town cop, especially because of the fact / had his name on his PM since the start seemingly (ie I think it's a bit too obvious to "give" a free scum to town like that). I hope we won't end the day till I know who's scum if Fir is town at least, but I'm sure Kalish and Serbia are scum no matter what

[icedagger]

I'm still here, just finished reading up on what I've missed. I think Fir's our best lynch today because of the whole scum character thing, but I've noticed AD's been changing his vote alot, and is often reluctant to vote on his hunches until someone else has.. maybe this is just his play style, but worth bearing in mind

[Anarkistsdream]

I'm still here, just finished reading up on what I've missed. I think Fir's our best lynch today because of the whole scum character thing, but I've noticed AD's been changing his vote alot, and is often reluctant to vote on his hunches until someone else has.. maybe this is just his play style, but worth bearing in mind

If others don't see the logic, then why would I vote? It's smarter to get ideas out there and see what other people say then to attempt to start a bandwagon, isn't it? Let people come up with their own thoughts based on the evidence I can present.

As to ga7 saying I have switched my vote too often. How many times has it changed? What, 5? And what page are we already on?

Other people beyond me have changed their votes more often. You are looking to get me out, when I am contributing more knowledge about the movie and book than anyone else.

Any specific reason for that ga7?

[kalishnikov]

AD is always jumpy with his votes, nothing unusual there or overly-scummy, in my opinion.

2 scum have posted all around me the last page or so, we could just lynch them.

[Serbia]

AD is always jumpy with his votes, nothing unusual there or overly-scummy, in my opinion.

2 scum have posted all around me the last page or so, we could just lynch them.

Pot, meet kettle. (commie is always scum)

[ga7]

Uh? AD, I never said you were changing your vote often, Icedagger did. Seeing how big this game is, I don't think it's something worth mentioning anyway. And yes, your knowledge is appreciable, but there's still things that are bugging me (like always? ) and I think lynching Fir might be a big mistake (especially if we just end up with a paranoid deputy or something).

Anyway:
Relevant info on pages 31-40
- Slipup by Crab? YOU DECIDE

Not really. Explain how asking if Corleone was mentioned in other townies PMs helps scum at all? You might call it an OMGUS but I can't remember you posting anything else of value in this thread, and you just come in and jump on the most convenient bandwagon.

Because the scum do not know who the town are and vice-versa and so asking for anything mentioned in the PM is an direct way of getting info about the role which helps in scum picking targets and thus makes you look ultra-scummy

unvote vote Icedagger

FOS skoffin and rebel for contributing nothing to the discussion

Oh? So you know for a fact there's several scum factions? *grins*
- Another FOS Icedagger for trying to WIFOM with the classic "how could I be scum, look how active I am" (yes it's not that big a deal and could be again clumsiness but I just wanted to use that smiley )
- I just reminded I still don't tell why Kalish is scum, better fix that now I like this post:

Wow you guys bandwagoned the shit outta that guy for like one comment that sounds more confusion/new player(?)-based then scum-based.

FOS: Banwagoners with nothing to add except a vote. I mean seriously, at least bullshit a reason along with your vote to not look completely scummy... It's not that hard... 'Your obvious lack of knowledge about [insert subject] implies, from my [insert noun] that you're scum,' half-assed? Certainly but at least it's something.

FOS: riggable Not sure why, just a hunch. Playing like 'the smart scum' and being a bit to quiet for my taste.

FOS: wicked For not trying to take over the game, like she always does.

Unvote, vote: rebelman For clearly being submarining scum, plus I'll always be suspicious of you in every game we are both in... Kinda like mandalorian...

Hefty list there, I just re-read like most of the game for some (stoned) reason, if you're wondering.

I like the first FOS, it's like your scum buddies are pissing you off with their obviousness. We'll see... The rest makes some good sense IMO.
-FOS Selin, his style is submarining but coming along only after so much time and posting so little content ain't cool.
-

Do you really think scum would make themselves as high-profile as I have?

yes, in fact I do

Yes. I wrote the book on that.

QFT FOS Wicked
- / claiming deputy and saying Fircoal is scum. Cf my previous post, I just find it a bit hard to swallow. As said before in the general character context I don't really see why he would forecefully be scum as he's not a mafia boss of some kind. Not everything is black or white in this setting...
-FOS Riggable for suggesting if we do lynch Fircoal / shouldn't be protected all the time. Why wouldn't the doc protect an active deputy all the time?
-There's the possibility of / being a lyncher (:wink: @ Nag) (ok not really )
-As soon as the Fir case starts Ice looks very desperate to turn all the heat on him instead.
-FOS ML for putting a questionable "Lynch one, then lynch the other if we're wrong" proposal. What if both are town, duh?
-Rebel had a good idea page 40 showing SL's daykill scene saying his character was corrupt and still town. I don't think the Corleones being scum is disproved by Johnny Ola's death btw, as I doubt Nag will change all the roles while we progress in time and Roth was definitely more the independant type in part II (not sure about before though).

[wicked]

The only suspicious bit is that / came out when he did. And where he said "I waited until the day killers had killed so I knew I was safe."

QFE. I didn't know there were day killers when the game started, did any of you? / would only assume there was a day killer if he knew from his role, i.e. "you're in a day mafia that acts during the day" and from talking to his scum buddies during the day.

So /, care to tell us how you knew there would be day killings before they happened?

[Anarkistsdream]

The only suspicious bit is that / came out when he did. And where he said "I waited until the day killers had killed so I knew I was safe."

QFE. I didn't know there were day killers when the game started, did any of you? / would only assume there was a day killer if he knew from his role, i.e. "you're in a day mafia that acts during the day" and from talking to his scum buddies during the day.

So /, care to tell us how you knew there would be day killings before they happened?

DAMN! Good catch firth, and good to bring it back up, Wicked.

[Anarkistsdream]

To ga7, sorry, I'm getting confused between two games. My bad

[rebelman]

The only suspicious bit is that / came out when he did. And where he said "I waited until the day killers had killed so I knew I was safe."

QFE. I didn't know there were day killers when the game started, did any of you? / would only assume there was a day killer if he knew from his role, i.e. "you're in a day mafia that acts during the day" and from talking to his scum buddies during the day.

So /, care to tell us how you knew there would be day killings before they happened?

DAMN! Good catch firth, and good to bring it back up, Wicked.

i like it now / what's the story ????

[ga7]

Relevant info on pages 41-50

-The Fir-/ thing develops more, with interesting theories as to whether / is really honest. However some people pointed out that Fir might be recruitable by scum considering the character, which sounds pretty likely. If there are indeed several mafia families, them having recruiting powers isn't farfetched.
-Rebel voting no lynch... Good theory though at the end of page 45.
-

I don't have a name to my role, I'm just "Inquisitive deputy".

As someone pointed out either it's Nag not giving names to everyone to prevent a game-making mass claim... Not too sure, but his overall behavior (not that pushy for Fir lynch as he wants to investigate him) makes me think he's honest.
-

I'm guessing there will be several sanities around, but / you are a dumbfck for coming out so soon with no real reason. I am not a fan of lynching anyone with a claim of cop on day 1 as it is just too risky to kill off a real one or two.

QFT. Overall it feels a bit too risky to lynch a cop day 1, when we can take care of the whole thing afterwards. Hell, at worst they just die by the day killers tomorrow. It's a mafia cop, not a SK or something.
-Kalish has a good point on page 48 relative to Fir's potential recruitability. Again, pretty pointless to lynch on day 1 with probably so many killers around (and hopefully antagonist ones). BTW interesting Fir quote:

If I was scum, I probably would have checked and claimed differently to try to get / a cop lynched. now I realize though the full stupidity of /'s claim. Probably unaware to him, he not only singled me out but made it so I have to die for town's benefit. I am pro-town, at least for now, but due to the fact you've singled me out, and the thread is filled with clueless townies saying I could be recruited, it should be quite obvious to the scum that I can be recruited. So to save the town the trouble. / you are a moron.

Unvote
Vote: Fircoal

And Rebel, you're no longer posting just trash, so I have no reason to vote you.

sorry, Nag if I played bad

That confirms it. And still makes me think we shouldn't waste our (townies) lynch with this.
-Why is Lovo defending the babies? I want to lynch me some baby. After all, some of you guys lynched me as Baby Mario long ago in another Nag game

Well, not sure who to vote for after all this. Gonna reread... Right

[ga7]

Unvote Vote Rebelman Ok I think that might be a good lead to explore. I got a hunch that he started defending Fir because he realized he could be recruited. His previous fishy posts then submarining then some more weird posts with a lot of setup theories reek of scum.
As for the Fir matter, I really think he's gonna be killed regardless.

[Fircoal]

Fir's "lol, and what is up with these day kills? Nag getting bored?" putting forward in further posts a questionnable hypothesis that the kills were not player-made.

if you modded like I did, you'd wonder it too.

[F1fth]

Unvote Vote Rebelman Ok I think that might be a good lead to explore. I got a hunch that he started defending Fir because he realized he could be recruited. His previous fishy posts then submarining then some more weird posts with a lot of setup theories reek of scum.
As for the Fir matter, I really think he's gonna be killed regardless.

Now that you mention it, I don't like that he advocated a no lynch, especially given that in big games, lots of people are going to die. And I also don't like that he tried to assert (for whatever reason) that at least one of the babies must be scum. I don't know how you can possibly come to that conclusion this early in the game.

Still, I think we're already committed in the Fircoal and / thing and we should come to a conclusion there before we move on, whether it be to lynch Fircoal or not.

[rebelman]

i put forward a few theories as i was accused of submarining and posting off topic and not helping the game along - this is classic damned if you do, damned if you dont - my babies idea was a theory i put forward (i think it will be proved right but we can wait and see) my reasons for being opposed to the fircoal lynch i think are well explained but just to spell them out again - its possible he can be a nasty corrupt character and still a townie like the senator and the cardinal. I really think fircoal could be a town cop and i have yet t hear a convincing argument to the contrary.

as for the no lynch that was for various reasons primarily to temp. stop the fircoal wagon until he is investigated, also neither / or ice have convincing cases against them so i reckoned a no lynch was far better than losing a townie. I actually dropped it very quickly when noone else was backing it and put my vote back on ice where it remains - i know the case against him is paper thin but at least lynching him will not lead to an accidental lynch of the cop which at the moment is at least a possibility.

[CrabNebula]

ga7, last I checked third party roles like SK, Jester, linked roles etc do not come under town and this being a large game it is natural to expect them.

And an interesting recruiting angle brought up. I wonder how, whoever, did it, thought of it?

[rebelman]

And I also don't like that he tried to assert (for whatever reason) that at least one of the babies must be scum. I don't know how you can possibly come to that conclusion this early in the game.

i have watched all 3 films at least a dozen times - hence i know who the kids are and who they grow up into there arent sufficent vanilla/town young characters that grow up during the trilogy hence ny belief that at least 1 is scum.

My claim got skittles to reveal he doesnt know his alignment yet (this in itself was a success) as we now know that skittles is either scum and couldnt come up with a defense that would make him a townie so went for that vague one or he is telling the truth is unalligned now but potentially will grow into scum.

[Fircoal]

And I also don't like that he tried to assert (for whatever reason) that at least one of the babies must be scum. I don't know how you can possibly come to that conclusion this early in the game.

i have watched all 3 films at least a dozen times - hence i know who the kids are and who they grow up into there arent sufficent vanilla/town young characters that grow up during the trilogy hence ny belief that at least 1 is scum.

My claim got skittles to reveal he doesnt know his alignment yet (this in itself was a success) as we now know that skittles is either scum and couldnt come up with a defense that would make him a townie so went for that vague one or he is telling the truth is unalligned now but potentially will grow into scum.

actually I believe baby Tal also said he doesn't know his future role.

[Selin]

.....

We should get a lynch today, don't mistake my words, I just really don't think it should be Fir so no vote from me there.

Unvote, vote: Selin, one of the smarter players I've ever played this game with. I'd say that you're playing the perfect scum at the moment.

I just quoted you, because I liked the blue bolded part so much.

I read it many times with a smile on my face. Thanks for making me happy.

.

[Selin]

Coming back to Fircoal's issue:

Following Ga7's logic I now agree not to lynch him. If he is pro town on day 1 (I'm sure that he will work for Solozzo's later in the game, if he is not already working for them) he will be the target of mafia anyway tonight. Don't forget that Fircoal's character working for Sollozzo is also a big thread to carleone's, so he will be for sure the target of carloene family. Carleone's won't risk to leave him alive, otherwise he may share some valuable information with solozzo's after his investigation tonight.

So, why should we waste our day 1 lynch, even if Fircoal is already working for a mafia family. Let the other mafia family kill him.

Any other ideas?

.