[Official] Breaking Bad Mafia 4/18 Blue. Town&DEA+rug win

[superkeener]

Either you decided to completely ignored what I said or you just don't understand it. By being vague I have generated approximately three pages of discussion. Can you please explain how that isn't beneficial in getting reads on people for town?

I just do not see anything about being vague that is pro-town. We are looking for scum, not trying to blindly feel around for them. We need concrete information to help us make good decisions.

x-stor has generated discussion (much more than a mere 3 pages) by being blunt. We do not you you to "lead" us in the wrong direction with your "vague" ideas. If you think something, say it. If not you are only holding back information that could lead us in the right direction.

As far as your 3 pages go... that is nothing.... Well maybe it is something, it did lead us to you...

My vote stays.

[StorrZerg]

Super, why is caff scum?
everyone is holding back their claim. Unless you are implying he knows something else, be a little more specific plz.

[MoB Deadly]

I do not have a vote on caff. I have made my personal opinion clear about claims.

I would like caff to go into more detail about his latest 4 reads though

I would like more details as well. Right now my vote is on you because you are by far the scummiest case in my eyes. However, if you can give me a better case on someone else, I would consider moving my vote.

[betiko]

Super, why is caff scum?
everyone is holding back their claim. Unless you are implying he knows something else, be a little more specific plz.

didn't we go through this a million times? if you're looking for rock solid facts, there aren't. this is a gameof suspicions and the whole case started looking back at what info we had from PCM from day 1 after he flipped mafia.
We can never be sure, but it's worth a claim to see where PCM's lead is going.

no one can say for sure X or Y is mafia for certain unless they are mafia themselves.

[StorrZerg]

I do not have a vote on caff. I have made my personal opinion clear about claims.

I would like caff to go into more detail about his latest 4 reads though

I would like more details as well. Right now my vote is on you because you are by far the scummiest case in my eyes. However, if you can give me a better case on someone else, I would consider moving my vote.

Why cant you develop a case on someone else?
Surely you have more than 1 scum read, surely you could present a case on someone else AND still keep pressure on caff.

[StorrZerg]

That question was directed at super, and i'm looking for Supers opinion on the case, His reasoning, not yours betiko.

[betiko]

xstor: do you have information proving that we should let go the caff case? you have been so desperately waving attention out of it that i'm wondering if you know something about him.
maybe it's your playstyle cause, you already said that you don't base yourself on flavour, game mechanics or claims.
From my experience, the claims are the best way to catch someone lying or at least reducing his angle of approach towards town. Once you said your lie you have to stick to it till end game and on the long term it gets more and more complicated to back up your story.

[MoB Deadly]

I do not have a vote on caff. I have made my personal opinion clear about claims.

I would like caff to go into more detail about his latest 4 reads though

I would like more details as well. Right now my vote is on you because you are by far the scummiest case in my eyes. However, if you can give me a better case on someone else, I would consider moving my vote.

Why cant you develop a case on someone else?
Surely you have more than 1 scum read, surely you could present a case on someone else AND still keep pressure on caff.

I have looked at those cases myself and I believe Caff is the scummiest (because I believe he is lying and he really is third party). But someone else may have caught something I didn't catch on my scum reads and that could be enough for me to switch my vote. I particularly want it from Caff because I believe his play has been very wishy-washy which is typical 3rd party behavior. Pretty much I want him to prove his towniness to me so his posts have meaning to me.

Plus I think we can afford to get 2 claims today. Right this moment I believe him claiming is best for us, plus someone he suspects, if he makes a good enough case to get a wagon off it.
If he can't do it then I wouldnt mind making a case to keep the game moving, however I don't believe my case is very strong.

fped

[Iron Butterfly]

I do not have a vote on caff. I have made my personal opinion clear about claims.

I would like caff to go into more detail about his latest 4 reads though

I would like more details as well. Right now my vote is on you because you are by far the scummiest case in my eyes. However, if you can give me a better case on someone else, I would consider moving my vote.

Why cant you develop a case on someone else?
Surely you have more than 1 scum read, surely you could present a case on someone else AND still keep pressure on caff.

Having a scum read does not mean someone is scum it just means you think someone may be scum. Part of the problem, at least for me, is that if everyone posts their scum reads and i mean everyone, then all it does is muddy the waters and makes the game more confusing.

It seems to me that we seem to be getting somewhere and then you ask someone else who they think is scummy and why...OR you post why you think someone else is scummy and do a good job at it and then feel it more important to shift to something else. The longer this goes on the scummier it seems to me. GOSH I could be wrong though.

[gregwolf121]

i do read every post on the page, if i'm in a hurry i don't read as carefully, the posts i think you are refering too, were at the start of day 1, correct? if so i had just finished reading 15+ pages to catch up on the reading and by that time things started blending together, that and i wanted to hear caff's response, once it was given i just referred back to the closest post on the case.

Nope, early day 2 and on the same page as mob. In fact he quoted me to say he agreed.. He quoted me to approve my caff case.. He kind of re-did my case with the exact same things and his own words + quoting my case. A case written 2-3 times on day 2 by myself+ another time by mob... So that was actually the third or forth time this exact case on caff was brough up and you treated it as big news. So yeah, you really don t read carefully at all if something repeated that many times hasn t been noticed at all by you till then.

Anyway... Caff asked a question. For those of you who didn t vote caff.. The man just want your last word to go for his full claim or not.

sorry i meant to say start of day 2 not day 1

[TheForgivenOne]

town and mafia sell meth from what I know, since we got lydia as mafia and badger as town (not third party or anything)
Strike already answered earlier in the game. This is much more straight forward that what we had been speculated and it's mostly about the first seasons.
I think this is only about the "good guys" from a scenario point of view (walt and jessie's gang+walt's family, including hank?), mafia is gus's gang as speculated and demonstrated with lydia; third party are most likely salamanca gang or todd gang or DEA (including hank?). Also, I really don't know if we should expect mike as being with gus (mafia) or with walt (town) given his "alignment" change in the show.

TFO; please give us more details of the flavour you got regarding the vote stealing message.

caff at l-3, might be a good time to claim!

I was given some meth, which gave me a night action. Basically I lost my vote in exchange for a night action.

Can you go into more detail?

Not much more detail I can go into. No, I didn't have a choice to take the meth. If you want to know the action, i'm going to hold onto it, as the result(s) I got aren't of any use at the moment.

[betiko]

I do not have a vote on caff. I have made my personal opinion clear about claims.

I would like caff to go into more detail about his latest 4 reads though

I would like more details as well. Right now my vote is on you because you are by far the scummiest case in my eyes. However, if you can give me a better case on someone else, I would consider moving my vote.

Why cant you develop a case on someone else?
Surely you have more than 1 scum read, surely you could present a case on someone else AND still keep pressure on caff.

Having a scum read does not mean someone is scum it just means you think someone may be scum. Part of the problem, at least for me, is that if everyone posts their scum reads and i mean everyone, then all it does is muddy the waters and makes the game more confusing.

It seems to me that we seem to be getting somewhere and then you ask someone else who they think is scummy and why...OR you post why you think someone else is scummy and do a good job at it and then feel it more important to shift to something else. The longer this goes on the scummier it seems to me. GOSH I could be wrong though.

I agree with this. xstor is just on 10 cases at a time all the time; and when we are getting close to get some information revealed he asks a lesser active player to give his opinion about X or Y. this isn't bringing us anywhere xstor.
so can you please stop deviating the subject: either you want this case on caff to stop and don't want him to claim giving us convincing reasons to stop the wagon started; either you don't want to get involved in this case at all; either you want him to claim too.
the vote count has him at L-3 so either you have no interest in that case; either you are against that case. let's put an end to this; either with people not voting caff convincing the caff voters that making him claim will do more harm than good, either going ahead and get that full claim. almost half of the players are waiting on this claim, whatever you have noted about player X or Y, keep it for later today. let's get over with this caff case and stop wasting time.
As mob said, I'm up for getting 2 claims today.

fp

[cooldeals]

I feel like I don't even need to talk since Betiko keeps saying everything I'm thinking. But 1 thing that no one has talked about is Caff delaying his claim. Below I've listed all his posting times in this thread between two interesting quotes of his about claiming.

Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:15 pm

If people want a full claim then I will provide one, but I think it is too early.

Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:03 am
Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:29 am
Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:38 pm
Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:00 am
Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:31 pm
Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:06 am
Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:00 am

Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:16 pm

First of all, I will claim if people that haven't BW'd me wish so. If only people voting me want a claim, tough.

So he offered to claim, delayed it for 4 days and now wants more people to tell him to claim. In my clan mafia games I don't usually claim before L-2 as that's our standard but those games are much smaller and we always lynch by majority not by most votes as I guess we have higher activity. Him being at L-3 in this game seems like quite a lot of pressure so far. I doubt we easily get anyone to more pressure and yet now he wants fake votes to confirm people want a claim when 4 days ago he pretended like he would gladly claim (probably to try and seem townie).

As Betiko, MoB and others have pointed out more than once. He keeps changing his tune on things.

fp

[betiko]

town and mafia sell meth from what I know, since we got lydia as mafia and badger as town (not third party or anything)
Strike already answered earlier in the game. This is much more straight forward that what we had been speculated and it's mostly about the first seasons.
I think this is only about the "good guys" from a scenario point of view (walt and jessie's gang+walt's family, including hank?), mafia is gus's gang as speculated and demonstrated with lydia; third party are most likely salamanca gang or todd gang or DEA (including hank?). Also, I really don't know if we should expect mike as being with gus (mafia) or with walt (town) given his "alignment" change in the show.

TFO; please give us more details of the flavour you got regarding the vote stealing message.

caff at l-3, might be a good time to claim!

I was given some meth, which gave me a night action. Basically I lost my vote in exchange for a night action.

Can you go into more detail?

Not much more detail I can go into. No, I didn't have a choice to take the meth. If you want to know the action, i'm going to hold onto it, as the result(s) I got aren't of any use at the moment.

during the day phase or the night phase? do you think the same thing happened to nark during day 1 when he started talking about smoking meth if you got it in a day phase?

[jonty125]

I know nothing of TFO's condition, nor did I influence it.

But then again meth affects something I just can't remember what, is it long-term memory?

[TheForgivenOne]

town and mafia sell meth from what I know, since we got lydia as mafia and badger as town (not third party or anything)
Strike already answered earlier in the game. This is much more straight forward that what we had been speculated and it's mostly about the first seasons.
I think this is only about the "good guys" from a scenario point of view (walt and jessie's gang+walt's family, including hank?), mafia is gus's gang as speculated and demonstrated with lydia; third party are most likely salamanca gang or todd gang or DEA (including hank?). Also, I really don't know if we should expect mike as being with gus (mafia) or with walt (town) given his "alignment" change in the show.

TFO; please give us more details of the flavour you got regarding the vote stealing message.

caff at l-3, might be a good time to claim!

I was given some meth, which gave me a night action. Basically I lost my vote in exchange for a night action.

Can you go into more detail?

Not much more detail I can go into. No, I didn't have a choice to take the meth. If you want to know the action, i'm going to hold onto it, as the result(s) I got aren't of any use at the moment.

during the day phase or the night phase? do you think the same thing happened to nark during day 1 when he started talking about smoking meth if you got it in a day phase?

I got it at night. I don't know, I don't have a PR (or whatever) that makes me mention Meth.

[iAmCaffeine]

I feel like I don't even need to talk since Betiko keeps saying everything I'm thinking. But 1 thing that no one has talked about is Caff delaying his claim. Below I've listed all his posting times in this thread between two interesting quotes of his about claiming.

Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:15 pm

If people want a full claim then I will provide one, but I think it is too early.

Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:03 am
Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:29 am
Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:38 pm
Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:00 am
Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:31 pm
Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:06 am
Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:00 am

Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:16 pm

First of all, I will claim if people that haven't BW'd me wish so. If only people voting me want a claim, tough.

So he offered to claim, delayed it for 4 days and now wants more people to tell him to claim. In my clan mafia games I don't usually claim before L-2 as that's our standard but those games are much smaller and we always lynch by majority not by most votes as I guess we have higher activity. Him being at L-3 in this game seems like quite a lot of pressure so far. I doubt we easily get anyone to more pressure and yet now he wants fake votes to confirm people want a claim when 4 days ago he pretended like he would gladly claim (probably to try and seem townie).

As Betiko, MoB and others have pointed out more than once. He keeps changing his tune on things.

fp

You say I'm delaying my claim and changing my tune. How does that work?

I'm afraid I am almost completely disregarding anything Rugbirn says at the moment. He is a hindrance to town and, unless extreme dumb-telling, doesn't have a clue how to play.

I will fully claim, to settle this.

I am Vanco. For those who don't know, he is a DEA Agent in El Paso. In mafia terms, I am a Watcher, and I have two reports based on who I watched overnight. Do you want me to provide the details?

I have also noticed jonty is frequently saying he takes meth in his posts, but as far as I'm aware that has only been the case during day two. This makes me town-read him, since the only logical reason I can think of to explain this would be a drug dealer (Badger, Combo, Skinny Pete) has given him meth, but then this could conflict with what has happened to TFO. Unless meth can do different things? I don't know, these are just ponderings.

My scum-read on cooldeals is because, if I recall correctly, he's basically using other people's arguments to provide his own, and not providing anything unique. It's easy enough to grab onto someone else's tail, like betiko's, and agree with what they say.

[cooldeals]

Who did you Watch last night iAmCaffeine?

It's not a full claim without this information.

[iAmCaffeine]

Who did you Watch last night iAmCaffeine?

It's not a full claim without this information.

I watched X-Stor-X. He was visited by TFO and Rugbirn.

[cooldeals]

....this isn't good.

unvote

TFO, rugbirn, X-Stor any comments?

[virus90]

Vanco? i watched the full series but had to google him, he is really a small character.
without wanting to go in a big discussion about what roles we should expect etc, i am not getting why of al characters in the game this one should be chosen. Thus i think it is a weak claim, and i was not on your case but now im doubting more then ever. for the DEA i would have expected hanks partner, steve gomez, or maybe he is boss if there are 3 but this character.. ? In my opinion you better get the watching results out aswell. but since im not most experienced i rather have some other people say the same aswell.

fastposted

[superkeener]

I dont know. It seems like a Fake claim to me. Vanco would be the 4th or 5th DEA agent I would think to be picked for a role in this mafia.
From the DEA we would of course have Hank Schrader, and I think his best friends/partner Steven Gomez and his boss George Merkert would all be better role picks than Vanco.

[Rodion]

1 - TFO, just to make sure, if by any chance you got a cop result you should share it, even if it's an innocent. There's no harm in it because the identity of the eventual cop-gifter is still safe.

2 - Betiko, I think we have enough attention span that we can discuss other stuff while pressuring Caff rather than stopping everything until Caff claims.

3 - Everyone - since we don't know whether the vote TFO lost is being used by someone else, we should refrain from L-1ing before claims. For the newer players, stolen votes are PMed to the mod and they may be tallied as "???" or "TFO" in the VC. We don't want to L-1 someone just to see mafia "??? hammer" it without fear of consequences. This protocol should last until the meth giver flips.

4 - Caffeine - what do you mean by 2 reports? Did 2 people visit your target (because I call that 1 report only) or does your watcher function differently?

Fastposted by everyone post-Caff's claim.

[StorrZerg]

lololololololololololol now can we listen to me?

[Rugbirn]

O.K. now I believe that IAM is telling the truth and is not mafia (or should I not a threat to town as he describes it). So with that I.....

vote Gregwolf121