[Official] Breaking Bad Mafia 4/18 Blue. Town&DEA+rug win

[Iron Butterfly]

If it looks and sounds like a duck ..its a duck.

vote caff

[betiko]

Yes, I visited x-stor-x with my random night action I earned from losing my vote (Which was ironically a watch!). IAmCaffeine and rugbirn visited x-stor-x. He's telling the truth.

I m sorry about that... It was random, thought chosen.

[StorrZerg]

Things that we can be sure of
IAC watched X-Stor-X Saw TFO and Rugbirn Visit
CoolDeals Mafia check on IAC
Rugbirn confirms visiting X-Stor-X before cop claim
TFO confirms visiting before Cop Claim. TFO's "watch" imo not certain. We can't trust imo his claim of watch, since it is 0 new information, all it does is confirms Rugbirn/IAC actions on X-Stor-X.

I know the direction today "Should" go, that doesn't mean we can't talk about other ideas.

I think we should take another look at the anark wagon. personally i've been pretty lazy about making my cases this day.
If 2 scum teams, almost for certain some scum on IAC.

Question regarding limited posting from Jonty, is PR a "common thing?" Could he be making this up? (side thing, plz who ever has this shit do not give it to me)

[StorrZerg]

Read on Greg

Starts off with Nag getting replaced. Nag places a vote on myself, 5 days latter, i ask him if anything has changed and he within 10 mins of my post makes his exit post. I found that quite a "coincidence on day 1" Greg is replaced, with at least 18 hours. should be safe to assume that he was asked, and he confirmed with the mod to be put in. He was active on the forum and choose to not say anything even though he was called out several times. He finally does make a confirmation post that he is here and will post when he can. Fast forward

His first post of some contribution on day 2.

okay i'm finally all caught up, yes it took longer than i thought it would, but to be honest day 1 was a bit confusing so i had to go back and reread several parts of it, i usually find that games have a certain flow that makes them easier to follow, day 1 though was very choppy and had lots of different tangents, mostly from x-stor, good job keeping the discussion going though, umm as for my reads i'm still formulating most of my opinions, meaning that i try not to form lasting impressions of players from one or two posts,
now from the players who are left alive
x-stor-x stood out the most too me, mostly cause i've never played with him before and his playstyle is completely different than what i'm used to seeing on this forum, and in reply to his numerous times asking about me, i was rereading and figuring out what i could from the game.
ummm most of the other players seem to be playing the same as always, the only deviations that i can remember, rodion was a bit quieter than i remember him being but it was said that he usually was on D1, virus not quite sure his posting seems different from how he posted in other games, i need to recheck this at sometime,
as for the NK's umm i've never watched this show so i'm not familiar with the flavor, but i think we have either two scum groups , or a scum group and a SK, i would suggest a vig but most players with a vig role don't kill on N1, not sure why neb was targeted, but as for pancake i think it was mostly because he is an experienced player and who ever killed him didn't want to deal with him later.
i think thats everything i wanted to say so...

first part Green Starts off with excuses as to why he is unable to give reads. Gives a complement to myself for keeping the discussion going. He does not want to make an opinion it seems from that paragraph, adds in a part about "two posts from players left alive" (everyone at this point has far more than 2 posts so that seems like a silly thing to say)

Second part Bold Is regarding myself, i stood out the most. But gives no indication on what he thinks of my alignment. \

3rd part Green Gives us something regarding Rodion being different, again doesn't say if this is scummy or townie action. Just an observation.

4th part bold regarding night kills. Interesting perspective i suppose, then again it should be quite obvious that we are dealing with 2 factions or 3rd party (with pancake dieing) Pretty sure a townie would claim credit for the kill( my read on the PCM kill) I do not agree with his reasons as to why PCM was shot. I think it has more to do with something he did IF there are 2 mafia factions (his talk about flavor was probably to "on point" or for sk, nice random kill maybe inline with gregs read)

Deal is, this is his first post regarding 30 pages of content, and he has given no indication on who he thinks mafia are, or who he thinks town. Its a slightly ok post with just no actual contribution.

His response to having his post called out.

sorry were you expecting me to be able to give you the names and roles of all those left alive? i'm not that good.

Little defensive, and kinda misses the point.

no i didn't say whether i thought people were town or not, mostly because i still don't know, most of those i've played with before seem to be playing normally, meaning i think they are town but i'm not sure, the ones that were different i pointed out what seemed different, do i think those differences make them scum, not at this time, i will continue to observe and to look into their actions and respond accordingly, there are several players in this game who i've never played with, such as yourself, i don't have a good read on any of them, because i don't have enough prior knowledge.

Again, he has 0 insight into the game, and reinforces that he has none.

yes in order for the game to progress we must lynch someone, but we should try to find scum, not just lynch whomever, i'm not going to vote until i believe some one is scum. as to my opinion on the matter at hand well my first posts here were a general summary of my thoughts on the game as a whole, i decided to spend a bit more time looking back at the current cases before adding to them, i usually find it helpful to read the case then go do something else as i think on it, but if i remember right the case is that some believe that caffeine soft claimed third party, but in the quote below i take caffeine's statement to mean that he didn't claim third party, and caffeine said he will say more later, i want to wait and see what he has to say.

I don't think third parties are a bad thing, but it's probably harmless to ask for a claim to understand some mechanics.

Third parties aren't inherently evil, but without a role that helps town, they'll be lynched, due to their wavering loyalties. And I don't think IamCaffeine was softclaiming 3rd party, that's generally not a good thing to do if you want to live.

Although he can't spell my handle, he is correct.

There are still a few players we haven't heard from yet. I'd like them to voice up before going further.

I find this post interesting, keep it mind the bold part at the top. Very strong commitment imo. Latter part he says he will wait on IAC to see what he has to say. And now we go to his Vote on IAC (Keep in mind with this post, he is very on the fence, he has not made any indication if he truly believes IAC is scum or town.

thanks for those notes of concern, but yes i am still here, had a project take longer to finish than i thought it would.
anywho, i can understand rodion wanting clarification of CD's word use, it was a reasonable question, and then it got blown out of proportion, i don't think a vote is warranted yet but i'll keep this in mind
as for MOB's case on caff, well i didn't read caff's orginal post that way but with the above i see MOB's point, caff's post definitely looks like he was soft-claiming third party, then caff said he hadn't, this now seems to me to be a case of LAL so vote iamcaffeine

So now we have a vote! and the reason? Lynch all Liars. In regards to what? He said she said comments? Specially with the situation at hand with a "Mafia check on caff" I strongly doubt that caff had any intentions of leading to "3rd party" Going with that I do believe IAC was "trying" to tell the truth regarding his "watcher claim" There is truth with IAC claim imo ( his alignment how ever different story) And unless i gravely missed something, this seems like a poor reason to jump on IAC, (I say poor because LAL doesn't always mean scum alignment. It is policy lynch) and adds 0 information to the IAC lynch. this screams "wagon" vote at its finest.

The rest of his posts have 0 reads, they include being defensive, and have plenty of excuses.
gregwolf121 Is absolutely at the top of my scum list right now. He really has provided nothing of value to this game. Some general over sight, slight theme talk. But no opinions on who is mafia or town. His vote on IAC looks odd specifically because it is Policy, and he truly doesn't seem to have any desire to lynch IAC. Just seems to be "following the mass"

[StorrZerg]

just lost power, was in a huge post on why super looks scum QQQQQQQQQQQQ

!

[superkeener]

I don't have time to do a full read of the last couple of pages, but TFO response satisfied me. Later today I will post my thoughts on what has happened since.
UNVOTE

[superkeener]

Well. after that last post. I kept reading because things got interesting with the Hank claim. Now, I am back to having my original thoughts on caf.
In that case:
Vote: iAmCaffeine

[strike wolf]

No time for an official count but I believe Caff is at L-1.

[StorrZerg]

someone plz unvote IAC i would still like to get some thoughts down tomorrow before the lynch happens. I'd hate to see the day suddenly end cause someone who was afk shows up and sees the claim and instantly votes

[virus90]

unvote

[iAmCaffeine]

I have been framed yet you still want to lynch me. Thanks so much.

Vote Rugbirn.

[rishaed]

First off, not a busdriver. Second off, unvote Cooldeals. That claim is pretty solid. Apparently it also seems to fit flavor, but with the DEA not as third party I am leaning more towards two mafia groups in the mix. Waiting on X-Stors post, though he has been highly defensive of Caffiene today. Don't have much time this week to do in depth analysis. Will look and keep reading, but posts will most likely be short.
fp'd

[virus90]

Caff is dea Third party?

[rishaed]

Caff is dea Third party?

Apparently, not according to cooldeals. And I'd much rather trust a claimed D1 cop... I'm not sure where this is coming from right now though.

[betiko]

Caff is dea Third party?

hank is a town cop... so why would other DEA be third party?
"good guys" including dea and walt's gang+walt's family are very likely all town with no third parties. gus's gang has proved to be mafia so far, and third party are most likely other people in the meth biz and other secondary characters. I seriously doubt there are 2 mafia factions for ballance sake. If there were, it would be walt's gang vs gus's gang; that would make the most sense flavourwise but badger turned out town, so I abandon the idea of 2 mafia factions.

I think that caff is taking all this with a lot of calm from the start. I know i would be really pissed off if I were town and so many "bad odds" stuff happened to me. His character is also pretty weak... I don't remember him at all.
Hank is definitely in the game; if there has to be a town cop it has to be his character. a framer? there is like 1/12 odds or so it happened; and i would not have chosen to frame caff; xstor was probably the one with the most chances to get investigated...


Otherwise, with the shitstorm going on I'm starting to find really suspicious xstor's obsession with nag/gregwolf. a guilty cop result and all... the guy keeps dodging the case and keep on being obsessed with a case on greg based on nothing pretty much. We have something as tangible as it can get in our hands, and he still runs after ghosts, wtf is wrong with him?

[cooldeals]

I don't mind X-Stor-X cases. It helps me think about who to investigate N2. He actually initially drew my eye to IAC in D1. He has some decent points about Greg and I think he just wants to talk before the inevitable Lynch. I don't think he's trying to keep it from happening.

[MoB Deadly]

Otherwise, with the shitstorm going on I'm starting to find really suspicious xstor's obsession with nag/gregwolf. a guilty cop result and all... the guy keeps dodging the case and keep on being obsessed with a case on greg based on nothing pretty much. We have something as tangible as it can get in our hands, and he still runs after ghosts, wtf is wrong with him?

Hell no man, dont tell him to stop posting lol.
Gregwolf has already been high on my scum list and his case is sound and amplifies that for me.
I am actually really interested in his case on superkeener if you have time to repost it.
I have to admit superkeener has been hard to read this game

btw I am glad CD claimed and betiko looks good, I really REALLY didn't want to have to make tough decisions on them this game as I normally guess wrong

[MoB Deadly]

If I didnt make it clear at all, I am 90% sure caff is scum and my vote will not move.

More on Gregwolf, the best part of xstors case is that gregwolf wanted to be sure IAC was scum before casting a vote.... I made a Large post on IAC with my vote, but honestly it wasnt that much new material, other than me stating I reread page 13 as well. Everything else was quotes from everyone else. So I find it strange that my post, put gregwolf over the edge.

Sidebar - Rugbirn doesn't look too terrible after today either. He visited xstor last night and he never posted that anything negative happened to him.

[betiko]

don't get me wrong; I found some stuff strange about greg. also I think that if nag chose that timing, it's probably because he didn't want to play during night phase and he would lack of time for it... so possibly because of a mafia night discussion.
greg's jump on the caff wagon was the strangest of all votes on caff, i have to say.
it's just that xstor hasn't said much about the real action. first time i play with him; so i don't know but i'd like some deeper analysis from him on this.
what do you guys want; make greg claim and ask the SK to NK greg if this SK is a town friendly third party? i think that the third parties, if caff is scum, will know that town can end game faster and would be glad to help the scum hunt.

[iAmCaffeine]

Caff is dea Third party?

hank is a town cop... so why would other DEA be third party?
"good guys" including dea and walt's gang+walt's family are very likely all town with no third parties. gus's gang has proved to be mafia so far, and third party are most likely other people in the meth biz and other secondary characters. I seriously doubt there are 2 mafia factions for ballance sake. If there were, it would be walt's gang vs gus's gang; that would make the most sense flavourwise but badger turned out town, so I abandon the idea of 2 mafia factions.

I think that caff is taking all this with a lot of calm from the start. I know i would be really pissed off if I were town and so many "bad odds" stuff happened to me. His character is also pretty weak... I don't remember him at all.
Hank is definitely in the game; if there has to be a town cop it has to be his character. a framer? there is like 1/12 odds or so it happened; and i would not have chosen to frame caff; xstor was probably the one with the most chances to get investigated...


Otherwise, with the shitstorm going on I'm starting to find really suspicious xstor's obsession with nag/gregwolf. a guilty cop result and all... the guy keeps dodging the case and keep on being obsessed with a case on greg based on nothing pretty much. We have something as tangible as it can get in our hands, and he still runs after ghosts, wtf is wrong with him?

I pretty much agree with everything betty has said here.

Regarding a framer, sure the odds are low. The odds are also low that I was given a shit character and therefore I'm not being believed, but that has also happened. The odds were also low that PCM was mafia, in that nobody really suspected him.

[virus90]

i asked becuase i was wondering if DEA might have different win conditions then town, and there was something discussion in the past with caff being third party.
i am pretty sure caff is scum but answering questions like third party or telling his win condition might change the case.
so the question remains, is caff third party? and to add; what is his win condition?
I think its not that strange to ask right... if he is town, town might recognise the win condition, or once and for all prove he is scum. (i think the last will happen)
if i happen to be interested in these questions why would a towny not answer them?

Betiko: why are you answering questions directed to him anyway? afraid he cant defend them himself?

[betiko]

i asked becuase i was wondering if DEA might have different win conditions then town, and there was something discussion in the past with caff being third party.
i am pretty sure caff is scum but answering questions like third party or telling his win condition might change the case.
so the question remains, is caff third party? and to add; what is his win condition?
I think its not that strange to ask right... if he is town, town might recognise the win condition, or once and for all prove he is scum. (i think the last will happen)
if i happen to be interested in these questions why would a towny not answer them?

Betiko: why are you answering questions directed to him anyway? afraid he cant defend them himself?

I've been on his back all day and I'm the one who brought up his possible third party alignment . you are just skimmingthe fact that hank (dea agent in the show) is a town cop. no one counter claimed hank, so there is no reason not to believe CD.... therefore DEA, if there are any are aligned with hank, hank is aligned with town so your question was irrelevant.

[cooldeals]

3. Do not quote any PM's you receive from the moderator or another player. You may say your name, role, associated abilities. This is a serious offence and could earn you a mod-kill, and/or a blacklist from future games

Based on this I'd be scared to quote my win condition without strike saying it's ok. I thought quoting it was a no-no in mafia games.

[virus90]

@ cooldeals
yes quoting is, but im not asking to quote, i am asking for his win condition..
is it illegal to say you have to "eliminate all threats to town" if thats your goal?
or "i have to kill all none town" if eliminate all threats to town is literally stated as your goal, thus could be considered quoting?
anyway i no way intend to get someone in trouble, i just think (and saw in many games) that its ok to say, or describe your goal.
anyway i want(ed) to try and see if a misstake can be caught which would make the switching theory impossible.
(not that i at this point believe it to be true, but well i was seeking the 100% prove and not the 90%)

[MoB Deadly]

Yeah. Do NOT post your win condition, you will be insta-mod killed I imagine. I think the best IAC can do is claim TOWN or DEA-TOWN, and tell us if he THINKS his win condition is the same as towns or not. Anything additional I would absolutely clear with Strike before posting.

fastposted by virus