[Official] NBC Mafia Town Win MVP=trinicardinal

[betiko]

OFF TOPIC!!!!

sorry guys I'm on other cc stuff, I haven't read the latest posts since my last one, and as I wanted to promote a little something; so I have decided to regroup all off topic stuff i wanted to tell some of you in one post:

first, I have created a tournament that needs loads of entries, so I think it needs a little advertising to fill it in:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=158277#p3470802
128 entries seems like a lot but it's basically an assassin that turns into a dubs for mafia, and a terminator that turns into dubs for cops; just 3 games to win to reach the finals and I think the storyline can be fun.

other personal messages:

-congrats rodion for the field marshal rank!!

-jimfinn, hope your other pearl harbour official game is looking good, cause the one you joined vs my team gave us a great drop and the starting position, pretty much means game before starting it!

-chap: give up on das schloss!!!!

-TNC: how many clan challenges do you guys play simultaneously??? like 6??? you sure are the only clan to do that...

OFF TOPIC CLOSED!

[betiko]

crap wrong link!
i guess even if it was off topic I don't want to take the risk to edit it and be acused of anything:
correct link to the tourney:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=159431

[MoB Deadly]

-TNC: how many clan challenges do you guys play simultaneously??? like 6??? you sure are the only clan to do that...

We are actually in 8 Active Clan Wars currently, including a 201 game set against LotZ

[safariguy5]

Vote Count

Rodion (5)- strike, chap, shield, jonty, Mob
chapcrap(1)- Rodion


With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Please keep the OT comments out of the game thread. Also, no advertising. Thank you.

[chapcrap]

Ok, I take 10 hours away from CC and you guys blow up again...

First of all, I think a no lynch is a bad idea.
Second, I think that Rodion's claim is a perfect claim. Whether it's true or not, I don't know.

Third, this is weird...I agree with Rodion that pressuring someone to hammer is best. I also would like to have strike do it.

I don't know why, but the more this discussion goes on, I feel like Rodion is telling the truth and that strike is scummy. I called strike out on day 1 when he made his case against BG and said 'classic strike' a few times. After that, he has seemed a little more docile and a laid back. He has not seemed the same type of player at the end of day 1 and in day 2. I have been feeling this the whole time, but I have also felt like Rodion is scummy as well.

Anyway, forcing strike to hammer would be a good idea to me. Of course, if the majority don't agree in forcing strike to hammer, I will still do it, because I think that it needs done. Rodion is by no means cleared. He will be lynched either way today. Either me, dazza, or someone else.

[strike wolf]

Ok, I take 10 hours away from CC and you guys blow up again...

First of all, I think a no lynch is a bad idea.
Second, I think that Rodion's claim is a perfect claim. Whether it's true or not, I don't know.

Third, this is weird...I agree with Rodion that pressuring someone to hammer is best. I also would like to have strike do it.

I don't know why, but the more this discussion goes on, I feel like Rodion is telling the truth and that strike is scummy. I called strike out on day 1 when he made his case against BG and said 'classic strike' a few times. After that, he has seemed a little more docile and a laid back. He has not seemed the same type of player at the end of day 1 and in day 2. I have been feeling this the whole time, but I have also felt like Rodion is scummy as well.

Anyway, forcing strike to hammer would be a good idea to me. Of course, if the majority don't agree in forcing strike to hammer, I will still do it, because I think that it needs done. Rodion is by no means cleared. He will be lynched either way today. Either me, dazza, or someone else.

First of all, how have I been docile? I feel I've been fairly assertive in this game and at times aggressive. Secondly, I'm not afraid of the threat of lynch or vig kill so do not plan on me being the one to hammer. Third, I disagree with you about Rodion mainly because of Betiko. Through all this Betiko has been mixing jumping on people for not putting Rodion at a certain distance from lynch but pressuring Rodion and than criticizing people who are putting him close to lynch. He's been playing both sides of what's wrong with the people voting Rodion. Fourth, I think I gave a fairly good example of why it is dangerous to force someone to hammer a potential bomb. I don't think anyone's really addressed any of those. So let me reassert what I said earlier:

A. mafia are not the only ones who would have reason to not want to hammer. What happens if we try to force someone to hammer and they're a power role? we've just exposed another power role to the mafia after the doctor and cop have already claimed. We cannot conclusively deduce that someone is scum via them refusing to hammer.

B. If Rodion is indeed the bomb than by having someone else hammer him it's more likely that we're having a townie hammering and we're down two townies. We'd be down four townies and zero mafia going into night two. It's likely that we would be down five townies by day three.

C. Where do we draw the line if we do try to force a hammer and a power role claims? Where do we go from there.

D. Chap's the only case I see out there other than Rodion who's worth forcing to hammer. I don't agree with Dazza being the hammer because I don't think he's done enough to put him in that position.

E. Through all this discussion we've already given mafia a lot of outs for why they would not hammer Rodion.

So yes I would advertise that if Rodion is town that he should self-hammer as the chances are not that great that he will hit mafia with his forced hammer. If he's not going to self-hammer, you've volunteered so I am fine if you are okay with doing that.

[chapcrap]

Ok, I take 10 hours away from CC and you guys blow up again...

First of all, I think a no lynch is a bad idea.
Second, I think that Rodion's claim is a perfect claim. Whether it's true or not, I don't know.

Third, this is weird...I agree with Rodion that pressuring someone to hammer is best. I also would like to have strike do it.

I don't know why, but the more this discussion goes on, I feel like Rodion is telling the truth and that strike is scummy. I called strike out on day 1 when he made his case against BG and said 'classic strike' a few times. After that, he has seemed a little more docile and a laid back. He has not seemed the same type of player at the end of day 1 and in day 2. I have been feeling this the whole time, but I have also felt like Rodion is scummy as well.

Anyway, forcing strike to hammer would be a good idea to me. Of course, if the majority don't agree in forcing strike to hammer, I will still do it, because I think that it needs done. Rodion is by no means cleared. He will be lynched either way today. Either me, dazza, or someone else.

First of all, how have I been docile? I feel I've been fairly assertive in this game and at times aggressive. Secondly, I'm not afraid of the threat of lynch or vig kill so do not plan on me being the one to hammer. Third, I disagree with you about Rodion mainly because of Betiko. Through all this Betiko has been mixing jumping on people for not putting Rodion at a certain distance from lynch but pressuring Rodion and than criticizing people who are putting him close to lynch. He's been playing both sides of what's wrong with the people voting Rodion. Fourth, I think I gave a fairly good example of why it is dangerous to force someone to hammer a potential bomb. I don't think anyone's really addressed any of those. So let me reassert what I said earlier:

A. mafia are not the only ones who would have reason to not want to hammer. What happens if we try to force someone to hammer and they're a power role? we've just exposed another power role to the mafia after the doctor and cop have already claimed. We cannot conclusively deduce that someone is scum via them refusing to hammer.

B. If Rodion is indeed the bomb than by having someone else hammer him it's more likely that we're having a townie hammering and we're down two townies. We'd be down four townies and zero mafia going into night two. It's likely that we would be down five townies by day three.

C. Where do we draw the line if we do try to force a hammer and a power role claims? Where do we go from there.

D. Chap's the only case I see out there other than Rodion who's worth forcing to hammer. I don't agree with Dazza being the hammer because I don't think he's done enough to put him in that position.

E. Through all this discussion we've already given mafia a lot of outs for why they would not hammer Rodion.

So yes I would advertise that if Rodion is town that he should self-hammer as the chances are not that great that he will hit mafia with his forced hammer. If he's not going to self-hammer, you've volunteered so I am fine if you are okay with doing that.

I can't argue about betiko.

[Rodion]

I'm sleeping now and I'll try to comment later, but I'd just like an explanation on something so I can readily comment tomorrow.

He's been playing both sides of what's wrong with the people voting Rodion.

What does that mean?

Fourth, I think I gave a fairly good example of why it is dangerous to force someone to hammer a potential bomb. I don't think anyone's really addressed any of those. So let me reassert what I said earlier:

I can answer that more in-depth tomorrow, but I've already explained this, even though you may not realize. Force a hammer = extra lynch/day; extra lynch = town participates in a higher % of the kills -> mafia decides a lesser % of the kills. If the target is a power role, then either we trust the power role and move on or we distrust them (just like you and others are distrusting me) and force them to hammer anyway. Also, why do you want to arbitrarily draw the line now?

[jonty125]

Just a thought if Rodion self-hammers wouldn't he blow up the person who put him at L-1

i.e Barry is the Bomb and takes 3 to lynch

Votes for Barry - Anita, Craig, Barry. Would Craig die with Barry?

[trinicardinal]

So do you no longer believe that chap is scum?

I believe his odds of being scum dropped when he volunteered to hammer so quickly, unless he is the godfather and intends to explain his non-kill with a bulletproof townie claim. I feel similar with Dazza.

I'd rather invest in someone that seems scared. For the record, the window for playing zen has now closed (it becomes even more WIFOM than when Chap/Dazza did it),

given that we are talking about a bomb would being bulletproof actually help here? I think even if the Godfather were to hammer then he would die. so I don't see this as a problem. Question for clarification: What do we do if the person we choose to force refuses to hammer? Force a claim and then either lynch or move on accordingly? In essence this seems like just picking another target unless I'm mixed up somewhere.

If you want more info then fine - Pick another target, but maybe one of our volunteers will have to be the hammer anyway... I don't know. I'm still not sure this is the best course of action but I'm also kinda groggy from lack of sleep... too much office work. Its also the weekend so I won't be on very often. I hope I don't have tons of pages to read when I do get chance to get on.

[MeDeFe]

I think the plan as it's been proposed so far is to settle for someone who seems scummy, and tell them that they have to hammer Rodion. If they refuse to do that, they are lynched instead of Rodion.

[betiko]

Third, I disagree with you about Rodion mainly because of Betiko. Through all this Betiko has been mixing jumping on people for not putting Rodion at a certain distance from lynch but pressuring Rodion and than criticizing people who are putting him close to lynch. He's been playing both sides of what's wrong with the people voting Rodion. Fourth, I think I gave a fairly good example of why it is dangerous to force someone to hammer a potential bomb. I don't think anyone's really addressed any of those.

sorry but i didn't understand either the "He's been playing both sides of what's wrong with the people voting Rodion"

I don't think I m the only one to have been jumping from case to case, in fact it's what you are doing right now.
And I see no point in your self hammer thing. put rodion at l-1 and the only reason he would do it is if he's town. also; have we mentioned that rodion could be a serial killer? i do think that the bomb is a too perfect claim and that it can hide a lot of thinks. it might as well be true. I personally didn't think rodion would come up with that (fake?)claim at all.
What I find fishy is the way rodion baited you and chap to hammer him, and he had nothing to be sure you are scums.

Little question: as people have been saying here that each time they play rodion he is mafia, I wanted to ask if a mod picks randomly names for roles or if he assigns roles to people to make the game as balanced as he believes? if it's always random and the probability of being mafia is around 25%: what are the odds rodion is always mafia??? If someone is always a faction of the other, each new game makes it more probable that he will be part of the faction he's never in..

Maybe a good test would be to put rodion at l-1 and see what happens? if a mob wants to hammer him we will all be happy. there is just the lyncher thing, but if it doesn't stop the game well who cares a congrats chap for the medal?

[safariguy5]

All roles are assigned randomly using random.org. This is spelled out in the rules.

[MoB Deadly]

I can answer that more in-depth tomorrow, but I've already explained this, even though you may not realize. Force a hammer = extra lynch/day; extra lynch = town participates in a higher % of the kills -> mafia decides a lesser % of the kills. If the target is a power role, then either we trust the power role and move on or we distrust them (just like you and others are distrusting me) and force them to hammer anyway. Also, why do you want to arbitrarily draw the line now?

The reason why we aren't just following your lead blindly and doing this without question is because obviously the players that voted you have some belief that you are scum.

Some one else said this earlier, that if you are scum, this is a perfect fake claim to try and get some last ditch information for the rest of the mafia to work with.

[Rodion]

Because the person we vote to hammer/claim is 100% assuredly town, right?

Or, wait, scum could be chosen and we could see through a fakeclaim? Mind blown.

[MeDeFe]

Knowing Safari, the scum will have been given ready-made fakeclaims that won't be counterclaimed, a fakeclaim can really only be exposed by analysis of night actions, and it's still a bit early for that.

[strike wolf]

I'm sleeping now and I'll try to comment later, but I'd just like an explanation on something so I can readily comment tomorrow.

He's been playing both sides of what's wrong with the people voting Rodion.

What does that mean?

It means he's been questioning a lot of the people for voting you and why they did so while at the same time he's been criticizing a couple of the people who haven't voted you but put pressure on you and why they haven't.

Fourth, I think I gave a fairly good example of why it is dangerous to force someone to hammer a potential bomb. I don't think anyone's really addressed any of those. So let me reassert what I said earlier:

I can answer that more in-depth tomorrow, but I've already explained this, even though you may not realize. Force a hammer = extra lynch/day; extra lynch = town participates in a higher % of the kills -> mafia decides a lesser % of the kills. If the target is a power role, then either we trust the power role and move on or we distrust them (just like you and others are distrusting me) and force them to hammer anyway. Also, why do you want to arbitrarily draw the line now?

Town gets to choose the kill but town doesn't necessarily choose right. If we choose wrong we speed up the rate that mafia can win. We have no more night action information than we did at the beginning of the day. Our chances of actually hitting scum than we did at the beginning of the day. I also don't care for your lax attitude to power roles. We have two power roles on the table, we can't afford to have three on the table. I'm still waiting for your "in-depth" post you promised

[strike wolf]

EBWOP: The two power role claims does not apply to Rodion's bomb claim.

What I feel should happen. Rodion should be lynched. If he is really town, he should hammer himself as the risks outweigh the rewards in this scenario. If Rodion refuses to hammer himself, chap should hammer.

[jonty125]

So are we lynching Rodion or not?

Because we're going back forth like a table tennis match and somebody needs to smash the ball to win the rally.

[trinicardinal]

I need to do some reviewing to compile some info. Can we get a vote count btw?

[betiko]

I do think somehow that for mafia, knowing there is a bomb out there that might be anywhere thanks to a busdriver will get them nervous and can get them to lose a guy in a nk. The problem being that we are not 100/100 sure of rodion s claim, as it s one of the best fakeclaims possible. If rodion is Town, it would really be a great loss in terms of role and player. All the solutions possible have a big downside, and i just can t make up my mind.. i m' rater thinking now that chap seems townish, and making him hammer is not m'y prefered solution..

Trini there is a votecount on this page already that is up to date.

[trinicardinal]

I do think somehow that for mafia, knowing there is a bomb out there that might be anywhere thanks to a busdriver will get them nervous and can get them to lose a guy in a nk. The problem being that we are not 100/100 sure of rodion s claim, as it s one of the best fakeclaims possible. If rodion is Town, it would really be a great loss in terms of role and player. All the solutions possible have a big downside, and i just can t make up my mind.. i m' rater thinking now that chap seems townish, and making him hammer is not m'y prefered solution..

Trini there is a votecount on this page already that is up to date.

Thx betiko, it actually was on the previous page. Anyway not matter what happens Rodion is not going to be hammered my mafia unless we can find a mafia member and put pressure on him in. Threatened with

1)Lynch the bomb and die or
2) just die

it makes sense to lynch and die since you will at least be removing a possibly potent town weapon (due to busdrives etc)

If we find a mafia member(proven after lynch) who still will not hammer then lynch them and it will probably be worthwhile for a vt(just to be safe) to lynch Rodion next since it would then mean that the bomb claim is likely a fake claim. I'm trying to get the time to look into cases to see who should be asked to hammer.

[dazza2008]

I do think somehow that for mafia, knowing there is a bomb out there that might be anywhere thanks to a busdriver will get them nervous and can get them to lose a guy in a nk. The problem being that we are not 100/100 sure of rodion s claim, as it s one of the best fakeclaims possible. If rodion is Town, it would really be a great loss in terms of role and player. All the solutions possible have a big downside, and i just can t make up my mind.. i m' rater thinking now that chap seems townish, and making him hammer is not m'y prefered solution..

Trini there is a votecount on this page already that is up to date.

Thx betiko, it actually was on the previous page. Anyway not matter what happens Rodion is not going to be hammered my mafia unless we can find a mafia member and put pressure on him in. Threatened with

1)Lynch the bomb and die or
2) just die

it makes sense to lynch and die since you will at least be removing a possibly potent town weapon (due to busdrives etc)

If we find a mafia member(proven after lynch) who still will not hammer then lynch them and it will probably be worthwhile for a vt(just to be safe) to lynch Rodion next since it would then mean that the bomb claim is likely a fake claim. I'm trying to get the time to look into cases to see who should be asked to hammer.

[MeDeFe]

I think we can put that down to a typo.

[dazza2008]

I think we can put that down to a typo.

Yeah I know. I was joking buddy.