[Official] NBC Mafia Town Win MVP=trinicardinal

[trinicardinal]

I think we can put that down to a typo.

I didn't even see that... Yes I do think you can put that down to a typo

[Rodion]

It means he's been questioning a lot of the people for voting you and why they did so while at the same time he's been criticizing a couple of the people who haven't voted you but put pressure on you and why they haven't.

I don't see a problem there. I'm a big proponent of consistent play and I consider inconsistency a scum tell. If he thinks I'm town and should not be lynched, he is entitled to questioning people that vote me. He's equally entitled (just like everyone else) to question why someone's actions are not matching their words. Take VS's example in MtG Mafia. He D1 hammered me while confessing he thought I was town. His hammering someone (action) that he considered to be town (words) are clearly inconsistent and this is why he was the first dude that got to claim in D2 there (whether VS is town or mafia in that game remains to be seen, but the point stands that people need to vote like they preach).

Town gets to choose the kill but town doesn't necessarily choose right.

Correct.

If we choose wrong we speed up the rate that mafia can win.

Correct.

We have no more night action information than we did at the beginning of the day.

Correct.

Our chances of actually hitting scum than we did at the beginning of the day.

It doesn't make sense gramatically, but I think you're trying to say our odds of hitting scum are the same than in the beginning of the day. Is that it? Because if it is, you're clearly wrong. We got a cop claim which everyone seems to believe. Our chances probably went from 4-5/13 to 4-5/12 (4-5/11 from my perspective).

I also don't care for your lax attitude to power roles. We have two power roles on the table, we can't afford to have three on the table. I'm still waiting for your "in-depth" post you promised

EBWOP: The two power role claims does not apply to Rodion's bomb claim.

What I feel should happen. Rodion should be lynched. If he is really town, he should hammer himself as the risks outweigh the rewards in this scenario. If Rodion refuses to hammer himself, chap should hammer.

Sure. I was waiting until you clarified the thing I asked you to and this is why I'm only posting now.

You said we have 2 PRs on the table and we can't afford to have 3. It is really irrelevant that you backpedaled into saying bomb is not a power role, if you really acted like you preached, you would have unvoted me before I got to claim. Why? Because we had 2 power roles on the table and we could not afford to have 3 (whether you think bomb counts as a power role or not is irrelevant because I could have claimed anything, including something you would consider a 3rd power role).

Bottom line, you were "lax" when you forced me to claim, even though your vote was inconsistent to your opinions (that we could not afford the risk of exposing a 3rd power role). Your decision of when to claim and stop claiming is arbitrary and inconsistent.

About the in-depth post, it will actually be short because it is actually a repeat of something I had already said.

1 - A hammered bomb = a 2nd lynch
2 - No-lynching should only be done in extreme circunstances (MYLO and some D1s) -> this is something that most experienced players agree with and you know that (you can check several ongoing/finished games if you need the proof)
3 - By asking me to self-hammer or picking a volunteer, you are either forfeiting a lynch (self-hammer) or mislynching a VT (volunteer)
4 - Thus, the correct conclusion is that we must proceed as if D2 had just started (or, if you prefer, as that Memebase day in which we had multiple lynches), look for more leads and define who is the second lynch (aka hammer)
5 - The defined person will claim and he can either be trusted (in which case we'll look for someone else to be the hammer) or distrusted (in which case he hammers and explodes or refuses to hammer and gets lynched - the second option is suboptimal)

[jimfinn]

How about from here we use FoS's like votes: Each person gets one FoS and you unpoint when you switch to someone else. When a majority of Fos's are on one person, that person has to either lynch Rodion or be lynched? I'll do FoS counts, and only FoS's after this post count for the purpose of this.

[strike wolf]

It means he's been questioning a lot of the people for voting you and why they did so while at the same time he's been criticizing a couple of the people who haven't voted you but put pressure on you and why they haven't.

I don't see a problem there. I'm a big proponent of consistent play and I consider inconsistency a scum tell. If he thinks I'm town and should not be lynched, he is entitled to questioning people that vote me. He's equally entitled (just like everyone else) to question why someone's actions are not matching their words. Take VS's example in MtG Mafia. He D1 hammered me while confessing he thought I was town. His hammering someone (action) that he considered to be town (words) are clearly inconsistent and this is why he was the first dude that got to claim in D2 there (whether VS is town or mafia in that game remains to be seen, but the point stands that people need to vote like they preach).

The MtG example is not a good comparison. I read that that was clearly a What the f*ck? moment in general. This is an inconsistency though. It appears hypocritical to me to attack someone for speaking their minds but not backing it up and then criticizing them when they do back it up. He's been playing both sides of the street.

Town gets to choose the kill but town doesn't necessarily choose right.

Correct.

If we choose wrong we speed up the rate that mafia can win.

Correct.

We have no more night action information than we did at the beginning of the day.

Correct.

Our chances of actually hitting scum than we did at the beginning of the day.

It doesn't make sense gramatically, but I think you're trying to say our odds of hitting scum are the same than in the beginning of the day. Is that it? Because if it is, you're clearly wrong. We got a cop claim which everyone seems to believe. Our chances probably went from 4-5/13 to 4-5/12 (4-5/11 from my perspective).

I meant to say that the chances aren't much better.

I also don't care for your lax attitude to power roles. We have two power roles on the table, we can't afford to have three on the table. I'm still waiting for your "in-depth" post you promised

EBWOP: The two power role claims does not apply to Rodion's bomb claim.

What I feel should happen. Rodion should be lynched. If he is really town, he should hammer himself as the risks outweigh the rewards in this scenario. If Rodion refuses to hammer himself, chap should hammer.

Sure. I was waiting until you clarified the thing I asked you to and this is why I'm only posting now.

You said we have 2 PRs on the table and we can't afford to have 3. It is really irrelevant that you backpedaled into saying bomb is not a power role.

I'm not saying that bomb isn't a power role but given your behavior I do doubt that you are a town bomb. Beyond that 2 town power roles on the table is going on the assumption that we would lynch you at the end of the day.

if you really acted like you preached, you would have unvoted me before I got to claim. Why? Because we had 2 power roles on the table and we could not afford to have 3 (whether you think bomb counts as a power role or not is irrelevant because I could have claimed anything, including something you would consider a 3rd power role).

Every rule has an exception. I offered a possibility, afterwards it not only appeared no one was going to really follow the route I offered and I didn't care enough about it to pursue it but also that this was inevitable. The case on you wasn't going to change just because there was a night in between. I gave it time to see if anyone else would speak up about the dangers of pressuring a claim, it didn't surface and you started to pressure me to state my opinion. I took a gamble in reconsidering my opinion.

Bottom line, you were "lax" when you forced me to claim, even though your vote was inconsistent to your opinions (that we could not afford the risk of exposing a 3rd power role). Your decision of when to claim and stop claiming is arbitrary and inconsistent.

Yeah you just stick with that opinion.

About the in-depth post, it will actually be short because it is actually a repeat of something I had already said.

1 - A hammered bomb = a 2nd lynch
2 - No-lynching should only be done in extreme circunstances (MYLO and some D1s) -> this is something that most experienced players agree with and you know that (you can check several ongoing/finished games if you need the proof)

This is manipulative thinking. It's A. a second lynch in one day. B. We're not dealing with a no lynch situation regardless of how you spin it. There is a limit to how much should be claimed in one day.

3 - By asking me to self-hammer or picking a volunteer, you are either forfeiting a lynch (self-hammer) or mislynching a VT (volunteer)

Again I don't regard it as a lynch. I consider it likely killing off a second townie in one day with limited chance to hunt scum. You do however list a good reason why you SHOULD self-hammer and not just allow a volunteer to do it.

4 - Thus, the correct conclusion is that we must proceed as if D2 had just started (or, if you prefer, as that Memebase day in which we had multiple lynches), look for more leads and define who is the second lynch (aka hammer)

Except we are not acting on any new information from night actions.

5 - The defined person will claim and he can either be trusted (in which case we'll look for someone else to be the hammer) or distrusted (in which case he hammers and explodes or refuses to hammer and gets lynched - the second option is suboptimal)

And the main reason this is a bad idea. If he is trusted we just keep going until we find a claim we don't believe. So we're likely going to end up with 3 claims on the table with two people who have basically soft claimed vt. Are you telling me that you are not at all worried about the number of claims on the table?

[Leitz]

How about from here we use FoS's like votes: Each person gets one FoS and you unpoint when you switch to someone else. When a majority of Fos's are on one person, that person has to either lynch Rodion or be lynched? I'll do FoS counts, and only FoS's after this post count for the purpose of this.

I think this might be a good idea as we are currently at a dead end. I've always believed betiko has acted scummy, so my FOS goes to betiko.

[MoB Deadly]

hammer -> Chap
I think either he or Rodion are likely scum, and I would like to see if he was truthful about casting the hammer.

[strike wolf]

How about from here we use FoS's like votes: Each person gets one FoS and you unpoint when you switch to someone else. When a majority of Fos's are on one person, that person has to either lynch Rodion or be lynched? I'll do FoS counts, and only FoS's after this post count for the purpose of this.

I think this might be a good idea as we are currently at a dead end. I've always believed betiko has acted scummy, so my FOS goes to betiko.

I would not FOS Betiko...simply because while I do believe he's scum I don't think there's much of a case on him if Rodion isn't scum. Therefore the way it would work out if Rodion is telling the truth then sending someone whose other tells are quite minor doesn't really add up to me.

[jimfinn]

FoS Count

Betiko (1): Leitz
chapcrap (1): MoB Deadly

[strike wolf]

oh right.

FOS Rodion

[betiko]

How about from here we use FoS's like votes: Each person gets one FoS and you unpoint when you switch to someone else. When a majority of Fos's are on one person, that person has to either lynch Rodion or be lynched? I'll do FoS counts, and only FoS's after this post count for the purpose of this.

I think this might be a good idea as we are currently at a dead end. I've always believed betiko has acted scummy, so my FOS goes to betiko.

I would not FOS Betiko...simply because while I do believe he's scum I don't think there's much of a case on him if Rodion isn't scum. Therefore the way it would work out if Rodion is telling the truth then sending someone whose other tells are quite minor doesn't really add up to me.

????sorry but your post just defies all rules of logic for me.
if you think that rodion is town and that i'm scum, that would be a 1-1 which is what most of us are trying to acheive. did you really have a case on BG when you lead his lynching? now you need an undisputed proof to lynch?
you said that you wanted to stop there as we had 2 power roles in the open and you forced rodion to lynch. we are now in a very ackward situation...
by the way, you answer jimfinn s question, so are you convinced that this FOS thing is the best solution, no more asking rodion to self hammer?

Concerning what you said about me, I think I already explained, but i'll do it again: mob seemed to be quite directive and putting pressure to see someone hammer rodion. I put the pressure back on him for not stepping up. did i really mean to see him hammer rodion? honestly no. did I think I could get some information out of it? yes. rodion was not at l-1, and asking mob about doing the lynching himself.
Honestly I'll have to wait a little right now to cast my fos as i have small things on a few players here, but nothing that makes me think the odds are safe enough.

fastposted twice

[strike wolf]

How about from here we use FoS's like votes: Each person gets one FoS and you unpoint when you switch to someone else. When a majority of Fos's are on one person, that person has to either lynch Rodion or be lynched? I'll do FoS counts, and only FoS's after this post count for the purpose of this.

I think this might be a good idea as we are currently at a dead end. I've always believed betiko has acted scummy, so my FOS goes to betiko.

I would not FOS Betiko...simply because while I do believe he's scum I don't think there's much of a case on him if Rodion isn't scum. Therefore the way it would work out if Rodion is telling the truth then sending someone whose other tells are quite minor doesn't really add up to me.

????sorry but your post just defies all rules of logic for me.
if you think that rodion is town and that i'm scum, that would be a 1-1 which is what most of us are trying to acheive. did you really have a case on BG when you lead his lynching? now you need an undisputed proof to lynch?

I don't think you followed my reasoning. I'm saying that most of my belief for you being scum comes from your connection with Rodion. If rodion is not scum than there isn't much reason to suspect you. I'm not saying that I think Rodion is town. I am giving a scenario for why it doesn't make sense.

you said that you wanted to stop there as we had 2 power roles in the open and you forced rodion to lynch. we are now in a very ackward situation...
by the way, you answer jimfinn s question, so are you convinced that this FOS thing is the best solution, no more asking rodion to self hammer?

Umm...1st part already answered...2nd part looks like you were just fastposted so you should know why.

Concerning what you said about me, I think I already explained, but i'll do it again: mob seemed to be quite directive and putting pressure to see someone hammer rodion. I put the pressure back on him for not stepping up. did i really mean to see him hammer rodion? honestly no. did I think I could get some information out of it? yes. rodion was not at l-1, and asking mob about doing the lynching himself.

It wasn't just mob.

Honestly I'll have to wait a little right now to cast my fos as i have small things on a few players here, but nothing that makes me think the odds are safe enough.

fastposted twice

[MoB Deadly]

Concerning what you said about me, I think I already explained, but i'll do it again: mob seemed to be quite directive and putting pressure to see someone hammer rodion. I put the pressure back on him for not stepping up. did i really mean to see him hammer rodion? honestly no. did I think I could get some information out of it? yes. rodion was not at l-1, and asking mob about doing the lynching himself.
Honestly I'll have to wait a little right now to cast my fos as i have small things on a few players here, but nothing that makes me think the odds are safe enough.

fastposted twice

This is the 2nd or 3rd time you have expressed your desire to put pressure on me. I have responded with my reasons why I am not going to state whether or not I would volunteer to hammer rodion or not. Do you not agree with my logic?

[jonty125]

I don't agree with this FOS we've got volunteers to hammer Rodion so lets see if he's bluffing of if he is town bomb. Why do we need this FOS thing

[trinicardinal]

Some time before I had done a case on MeDeFe. My next one is on Leitz

he had maybe 3-4 joke posts after confirming then when things got serious we got these

1. Nope
2. It would be a complete random lynch, not in favor of that!

Simple town style answer

To answer betikos question of trust: nobody, if anything by asking that question I'm suspecting you are up to no good.

again more town style

To answer betikos question of trust: nobody, if anything by asking that question I'm suspecting you are up to no good.

I thought I voted, but I just see I didn't so: Unvote, vote betiko

putting his vote where his mouth is

He's trying to figure out who is the most trusted person and then mentions your name, what immediately triggered something in me saying he was trying to put you on a good stand with the rest of us. I'm thinking something's going on between both of you.

I can't tell if we are moving forward with the betiko case or not. I do think it's interesting that trini was on board with pressuring him but has tried to wash her hands of the situation a bit (just in case he turns up town on a lynch? idk). What would make this a neutral player move instead of scummy? It seems like it could be either way.

The deadline is coming closer and so far there hasn't been really anything scummy to note. The betiko case is something worth pointing out, but still nothing serious. So I guess that brings up the question whether or not we are willing to lynch betiko or not unless something pops up out of the blue. As some have noted, the betiko case has shown some possible views on other players, but again nothing really specific.

I hope i m not going to get another backfire for taking another initiative but i might have an idea.. why don t we take the list of players (but ourselves) and grade from 0 to 3 the level of suspicion we have for each? our entries would all be submited to safari and we couldn t see the results before everyone turns in his list. safari would then post all the lists at the same time (mentioning whose is which), so there is no bandwagoning. it might be a bit against the spirit of the game though...
it might help us in the process of voting?

I neither think this is a good idea. It is only the first day, every slightest bit of suspicion is better than nothing. If we would do the list thing you suggest, I think there would be a lot of random votes or the most votes for the ones who posted the most. At this stage, it is necessary to see some interaction between all of us, bandwagoning included.

I doubt saf would be wiling to do this. And BW'ing is good for town as we can see who are likely scum (trying to drift along with the crowd). A small FOS for this post as BW'ing is a key part of cases .

Do I smell townie?

I've kept an eye on the whole topic every day, following closely on the 'attack' of BG. As far as why I didn't post anything was because I am of the believe it was still a weak case. After playing my games now, I suddenly notice 4/5 new pages, WOW! The ball has seriously started to roll now!

- The choice for blue or light blue doesn't rise any suspicion to me. Some people tend to be more 'precise' than others.
- The fact that strike 'secretely' edited drunkmonkeys post does seem a bit weird to me, especially because he didn't mention it. It immediately took my attention. That together with his constant attack on BG makes him a little bit suspicious to me. Again, nothing really big, just going to keep my eye on it!

I'm stil not going to change my vote as I will reread everything again tonight to get a clearer view on everything (got to go play football/soccer now) and I still believe betikos action with Rodion were suspicious early on in the game.

...

Are people still holding their votes on betiko because they think he's the scummiest player or because they just haven't found anything better to jump to? Has anything jumped out at anyone re: Betiko since we last debated the merits of his case?

My vote on betiko is still there because I am not convinced about the BG case. I understand strikes defense on why he (and others) voted BG, but it is the same as the case I opened on betiko imo: weak. Especially because strike himself is staying in the spotlight with other things (editing someone else his post without mentioning) which is not helping me in believing him. On the other hand, like you said, BG claim to be town wasn't really devoted. If I would claim I'd write a bit more than simply the message I received from the admin.. So, yeah, I'm keeping my vote on betiko as long as I don't see anything better to vote on.

From early on Leitz was suspicious of betiko and Rodion and seems to be staying on that viewpoint. He has not changed his vote for betiko throughout

Indeed, what a first day!

The post above of me was a reply to the last post of the previous page. I thought I read everything, I didn't see there was an extra page left.

Ok, so basically there is less than 2 days left for us to find somebody who most of us are willing to lynch. With Swifte claiming to be doc we cannot take any risks in lynching him. That leaves us BG who claims to be VT, an easy claim. He does seem keen to be lynched, a sign of defeat or a sign of loyalty to town? I think nobody here really has made up their mind about BGs tactic. If you ask me, my guts say he is telling the truth. I'm still not completely sure about this because of his defense, but something in me believes him.

If mafia would lynch doc, and town willing to lynch somebody, maybe it would be smarter if there was no lynch at all? In the first case there would be 2 town lost, while in the latter only one. Is this something people would consider?

so all of day one Leitz remained suspicious of betiko and kept his vote on betiko all the way

Day 2:

Alright, so night 1 took a townie out. Most of us were convincend BG was talking the truth, as turned out to be. Despite all the action, nothing big was revealed accept that the doc claim didn't ensure a doc kill. Good news for town!

As far as Day 2 has been going on, I've been keeping a close eye on all posts and FOS/votes. So far I'm retaining my vote until a bigger case (the trini/chap case seems a bit overkill to me) will come up. It is still early and there is no real deadline so I'll be waiting to see how everybody reacts on the FOS/votes.

Jimfinn finally showed some sign of life, but ignored all of the FOS towards him and then just left. Unless he starts defending his case:

Unvote, vote jimfinn

Just so everybody knows, I'm following this thread daily despite not posting every time. About the Rodion/strike case, it is an unbalanced case based on a mods jokevote. I'm of the belief that safari, seeing he is mod, should be smart enough not to let things slip in posts in other topics about this game so I will not pull to hard on this. Jim and MeDeFe are the most quiet in this game, but jimfinn his posts have not convinced me changing votes. He says he only posts when he gets excited, but after all we've had some claims in D1, some nice activity here on D2 and his arguements just aren't well constructed. Unless he manages to change my mind, my vote stays. MeDeFe will also have to show some more activity and explain his inactivity in the conversations.

I find it really suspicious that jimfinn keeps reading, but never responds to any cries for activity. Either he is just hoping to get a medal without any effor or interest in the game, or he is submarining way too obviously, or some other weird reason none of us understand.Basically, I don't see much use of him in this game as he brings no value to it..

Basically Leitz like many of us also found jim's submarining to be suspicious and he has pursued the case a bit

Ok guys, sorry for my recent inactivitiy. I had a very busy week at school and barely managed to play all my games. I just had time to catch up:

- Unvote (My vote was still on jilmfinn)
- I cannot help but feel suspicious about the rodion - betiko case. I was the first to bring it up on day 1 and have kept it in my mind ever since and I really keep getting the impression betiko is blatantly following Rodions moves, defending him, ... I don't quite know how to react on Rodions claim. Town lost already 2 players so losing another one could be hard for town to get back on top in this game. For now, I will be keeping specifically an eye on betiko (FOS).

after unvoting Leitz drops back to his Day 1 case with betiko and also brings back up his suspicions of Rodion

I agree with everybody else. I believe it is necessary for the game that Rodion should be lynched. There are a lot of people unsure about his claim, he is been an point of discussion from the beginning of this game and although some don't believe in the Rodion case (the scum??), most of us haven't been convinced about Rodion being innocent.

That would leave us deciding one more thing: dazza or chap?

How about from here we use FoS's like votes: Each person gets one FoS and you unpoint when you switch to someone else. When a majority of Fos's are on one person, that person has to either lynch Rodion or be lynched? I'll do FoS counts, and only FoS's after this post count for the purpose of this.

I think this might be a good idea as we are currently at a dead end. I've always believed betiko has acted scummy, so my FOS goes to betiko.

It seems like almost all the way through Leitz has had his targets set on Rodion and betiko. He certainly has not been jumping all over the place although his post count has been less that i expected.

so far I haven't seen any major scum tells from Leitz.

I have to analyse betiko and also this post from strike has pushed him higher up the priority listing for me

How about from here we use FoS's like votes: Each person gets one FoS and you unpoint when you switch to someone else. When a majority of Fos's are on one person, that person has to either lynch Rodion or be lynched? I'll do FoS counts, and only FoS's after this post count for the purpose of this.

I think this might be a good idea as we are currently at a dead end. I've always believed betiko has acted scummy, so my FOS goes to betiko.

I would not FOS Betiko...simply because while I do believe he's scum I don't think there's much of a case on him if Rodion isn't scum. Therefore the way it would work out if Rodion is telling the truth then sending someone whose other tells are quite minor doesn't really add up to me.

What I don't understand is, if you think betiko is scum, Why would you not want him to hammer? if betiko is scum and Rodion is town we lose 1 town for 1 scum. (I don't mind that at this stage) If Rodion and betiko are both scum betiko will obviously refuse to hammer in which case we hammer betiko then Rodion

If betiko is town he will claim and we act accordingly... If you are saying that we cannot afford to have another townie claim then you are effectiviely arguing for an end to discussions and a no lynch. Your recent posts have been a bit inconsistent in relation to that.

Fastposted several times

strike if Rodion is not town you're saying most of the case breaks down but we don't know for sure that Rodion is town? so why not pressure betiko and see what happens?
There seems to be at least some reason for suspicion still. Unless you're saying that we should accept both of them as town.. In which case - On what basis??

[MoB Deadly]

I don't agree with this FOS we've got volunteers to hammer Rodion so lets see if he's bluffing of if he is town bomb. Why do we need this FOS thing

Because we've debated this for quite a few days now and we aren't really getting anywhere. We all have different opinons on what should happen. If you think a volunteer should be the hammer, then just "fos" them

[strike wolf]

What I don't understand is, if you think betiko is scum, Why would you not want him to hammer? if betiko is scum and Rodion is town we lose 1 town for 1 scum. (I don't mind that at this stage) If Rodion and betiko are both scum betiko will obviously refuse to hammer in which case we hammer betiko then Rodion

Again you don't seem to follow my logic. If Rodion does happen to be town I no longer have much reason to suspect Betiko as most of my suspicion has been a result of their connection. So if I'm wrong than we've killed two townies which I think I've made clear I am trying to avoid that. IF I'm right and they are both mafia than unless Rodion is a mafia bomb (unlikely) than betiko could easily hammer to gain town points.

If betiko is town he will claim and we act accordingly... If you are saying that we cannot afford to have another townie claim then you are effectiviely arguing for an end to discussions and a no lynch. Your recent posts have been a bit inconsistent in relation to that.

Like I said. I'd rather not have a situation where we have another claim.

Fastposted several times

strike if Rodion is not town you're saying most of the case breaks down but we don't know for sure that Rodion is town? so why not pressure betiko and see what happens?
There seems to be at least some reason for suspicion still. Unless you're saying that we should accept both of them as town.. In which case - On what basis??

No I'm saying if (and to me that's a fairly big if) Rodion is town the case against betiko breaks down.

[Rodion]

This is manipulative thinking. It's A. a second lynch in one day. B. We're not dealing with a no lynch situation regardless of how you spin it. There is a limit to how much should be claimed in one day.

The answer being "until Rodion gets to claim"?

Again I don't regard it as a lynch. I consider it likely killing off a second townie in one day with limited chance to hunt scum. You do however list a good reason why you SHOULD self-hammer and not just allow a volunteer to do it.

Interesting. Here you acknowledge I'm a townie and the person who gets to hammer will likely be town as well ("second townie"). Why are you voting me again?

Except we are not acting on any new information from night actions.

I expected more than that from you. You can't be a hostage of night actions. In fact, waiting for night actions to unfold and forfeiting lynches (or 2nd lynches) is only likely to lead town to a loss. Have you considered mafia can have a roleblocker block the cop? Or block the doctor while they kill the cop? And there we go, entering D3 with 4 townies dead (2 vanillas, 1 bomb, 1 cop) and no information from night actions unless we got a tracker or watcher that struck gold.

And the main reason this is a bad idea. If he is trusted we just keep going until we find a claim we don't believe. So we're likely going to end up with 3 claims on the table with two people who have basically soft claimed vt. Are you telling me that you are not at all worried about the number of claims on the table?

Or 4, or 5, or 6...

I'm more worried about losing the game because I died and town is like a chicken with its head cut off, so I need to milk this day until I can get one scum killed.

Unvote, vote Strike.
FOS Hammer Strike.

Mob, it doesn't look like Betiko is still pressuring you. He was just explaining his behaviour after Strike called him out. I find it weird that you couldn't reach thid conclusion on your own.

[Rodion]

this*

[shieldgenerator7]

Ok, don't mean to poison the punch but I don't think we'll get 2 "lynches" in today.

If the person we FOS is scum, he will consider hammering the bomb, and see that if Rodion's claim is true, that he will have a 100% chance of dying. BUt, if he refuses to hammer, then there is a possibility that he may be lynched. This depends on whether or not town believes his excuse for not hammering, and how effectively town can rally a lynch, and how strong it is against Rodion's case.

Now, what if Rodion is fakeclaiming? He seems to be acting and discussing as if he really is the town bomb, and since there has been one in past official games and there has been no counterclaim, I'm inclined to believe him (although I'm pretty gullible when it comes to fakeclaims). But if his claim is fake, then the person we FOS will hammer (let's just assume this) and Rodion will die and we have a cleared townie (or a clever scum who saw thru Rodion's claim).

But I'd say it's more than likely that if we ask someone to hammer it'll be some sort of townie, or maybe some kind of jester role (tho one of those in this game is unlikely), or possibly a bullet proof survivor (IMO unlikely).

So I really Doubt that we'll get to control 2 lynches today, but I think this FOS thing might be helpful in finding scum, or like strike keeps saying, exposing power roles. But any kind of FOS or VOTE pressure in this way has the potential to expose pwoer roles, so.... whatthium do you want us to do strike?!?! NO LYNCH?!?! I really don't see how we can possibly have a lynch without potentially exposing power roles.

....and I think this Rodion case should be dropped for now. In case he is bomb, maybe we can investigate him tonight and see if he's telling the truth... but that opens up a whole new can of beans with busdrivers and all...

Yeah, so I'm still at a loss of where to go next. I don't think pressuring Rodion will help us all that much, so UNVOTE.

And much to strike's disappointment, I say we pursue another lead for now, while keeping Rodion in mind.

FASTPOSTED

-SG7 ( )

[strike wolf]

This is manipulative thinking. It's A. a second lynch in one day. B. We're not dealing with a no lynch situation regardless of how you spin it. There is a limit to how much should be claimed in one day.

The answer being "until Rodion gets to claim"?

Again I don't regard it as a lynch. I consider it likely killing off a second townie in one day with limited chance to hunt scum. You do however list a good reason why you SHOULD self-hammer and not just allow a volunteer to do it.

Interesting. Here you acknowledge I'm a townie and the person who gets to hammer will likely be town as well ("second townie"). Why are you voting me again?

You are either ignoring situational thinking or are oblivious to it. ALL OF THIS is based on the UNLIKELIHOOD that you are telling the truth.

Except we are not acting on any new information from night actions.

I expected more than that from you. You can't be a hostage of night actions. In fact, waiting for night actions to unfold and forfeiting lynches (or 2nd lynches) is only likely to lead town to a loss. Have you considered mafia can have a roleblocker block the cop? Or block the doctor while they kill the cop? And there we go, entering D3 with 4 townies dead (2 vanillas, 1 bomb, 1 cop) and no information from night actions unless we got a tracker or watcher that struck gold.[/quote]

Than what happens tonight if we have an extra townie dead and the same scenario? No we aren't subject to night actions but they do provide better information. Even in Memebase when we had three lynches in one day, we at least had the result of the lynches in between them (Not to mention a counterclaim that makes the situation much clearer) and it was still suggested that we did not have to use all three lynches.

And the main reason this is a bad idea. If he is trusted we just keep going until we find a claim we don't believe. So we're likely going to end up with 3 claims on the table with two people who have basically soft claimed vt. Are you telling me that you are not at all worried about the number of claims on the table?

Or 4, or 5, or 6...

I'm more worried about losing the game because I died and town is like a chicken with its head cut off, so I need to milk this day until I can get one scum killed.

So now you're appealing to the fact that you're experienced and telling town that we'll be in bad shape if we lynch you. Weak.

@shield: Half of what you posted has already been shown to be flawed. One part of your post is bogus reasoning and I've already warned you of this once but DON'T JUDGE THE BALANCE OF THIS GAME BASED ON THE BALANCE OF ANOTHER GAME HOSTED BY A DIFFERENT MOD. I really should FOS you just for that. I haven't been suggesting a no lynch. I've been suggesting that Rodion hammer himself. If Rodion refuses than one of the volunteers (preferably Chap) to hammer. That way no one else has to claim. So yes...you're post has little more than zero value.

[strike wolf]

This is manipulative thinking. It's A. a second lynch in one day. B. We're not dealing with a no lynch situation regardless of how you spin it. There is a limit to how much should be claimed in one day.

The answer being "until Rodion gets to claim"?

Again I don't regard it as a lynch. I consider it likely killing off a second townie in one day with limited chance to hunt scum. You do however list a good reason why you SHOULD self-hammer and not just allow a volunteer to do it.

Interesting. Here you acknowledge I'm a townie and the person who gets to hammer will likely be town as well ("second townie"). Why are you voting me again?

You are either ignoring situational thinking or are oblivious to it. ALL OF THIS is based on the UNLIKELIHOOD that you are telling the truth.

Except we are not acting on any new information from night actions.

I expected more than that from you. You can't be a hostage of night actions. In fact, waiting for night actions to unfold and forfeiting lynches (or 2nd lynches) is only likely to lead town to a loss. Have you considered mafia can have a roleblocker block the cop? Or block the doctor while they kill the cop? And there we go, entering D3 with 4 townies dead (2 vanillas, 1 bomb, 1 cop) and no information from night actions unless we got a tracker or watcher that struck gold.

Than what happens tonight if we have an extra townie dead and the same scenario? No we aren't subject to night actions but they do provide better information. Even in Memebase when we had three lynches in one day, we at least had the result of the lynches in between them (Not to mention a counterclaim that makes the situation much clearer) and it was still suggested that we did not have to use all three lynches.

And the main reason this is a bad idea. If he is trusted we just keep going until we find a claim we don't believe. So we're likely going to end up with 3 claims on the table with two people who have basically soft claimed vt. Are you telling me that you are not at all worried about the number of claims on the table?

Or 4, or 5, or 6...

I'm more worried about losing the game because I died and town is like a chicken with its head cut off, so I need to milk this day until I can get one scum killed.

So now you're appealing to the fact that you're experienced and telling town that we'll be in bad shape if we lynch you. Weak.

@shield: Half of what you posted has already been shown to be flawed. One part of your post is bogus reasoning and I've already warned you of this once but DON'T JUDGE THE BALANCE OF THIS GAME BASED ON THE BALANCE OF ANOTHER GAME HOSTED BY A DIFFERENT MOD. I really should FOS you just for that. I haven't been suggesting a no lynch. I've been suggesting that Rodion hammer himself. If Rodion refuses than one of the volunteers (preferably Chap) to hammer. That way no one else has to claim. So yes...you're post has little more than zero value.[/quote]

Ebwop: Okay that last line directed at Shield may have been too harsh...sorry...

[MoB Deadly]

Ebwop: Okay that last line directed at Shield may have been too harsh...sorry...

I feel your frustration, this game at the moment is mentally draining.

[betiko]

sorry guys but i forgot why investigating rodion tonight could be irrelevant, now that it comes up again? because we are not 100% sure that jimfinn is a sane cop? do we all agree that a townie bomb rodion is a huge asset for us?

strike; after reading trini's post I figured he interpretated your comment about me the same way as i did (that you thought I was scum and rodion townie but not fossing me). odly enough, rereading your message that was quoted in trini's post i did understand it (wtf? lol). so yes, i do understand the logic.

about leitz, I have to say he is consistant

fastposted

[chapcrap]

FOS strike

or, just everyone vote him and I'll be the stupid hammer!! I'm so tired of talking about this!

[strike wolf]

FOS strike

or, just everyone vote him and I'll be the stupid hammer!! I'm so tired of talking about this!

Care to explain the change of heart?