[Official] Breaking Bad Mafia 4/18 Blue. Town&DEA+rug win

[betiko]

This is what happens when we play too quickly and make quick decisions without fully thinking. If we slowed down and let Rodion post earlier that we were overthinking things, we may not have generated suck a quick wagon on Rugbirn. I am going to hang this up for tonight and revisit the thread tomorrow.

As of right now I like Gregwolf

Does anyone know off the top of their head if Jonty said if there were any effects to him getting methed?
I find it "odd" that jonty has this PR but no other effects, where I was given meth and gained an action but lost my vote.
scumdar has me thinking, self-imposed PR possibly?

fastposted x2

I don't know about jonty, but from other games I know he likes to get in those kind of deliriums... remember lovecraft mafia?

and regarding the rugbirn case... I didn't know about the poisoner but your theory was legit.

Also, given that rugbirn made a few unlogical statements o days 1 and 2, I really thought that rodion's read on rugbirn was overthought, or at least that he was jumping to conclusions that i didn't necesairly agreed with.
and seriously rugbirn... what you did tonight made you look extremely scummy. there was no way we would let go after a few things you said. You have a strong claim, i've never seen a mafia game with mafia having extremely strong fakeclaims. Saul is one of the main "good guys" character.

[Metsfanmax]

so right now, if no one counterclaims saul I will fully believe you. I will also assume that rodion is right and we might have tried to read too far into flavour. I think that gus might have performed the xstor kill; and that strike used flavour from the show for the way he killed, but wasn't hinting a mafia game power directly.

No, that's unjustified. He can be telling the truth about his character name and lying about his alignment and role. He can still be the poisoner (it fits with the flavor, roughly).

no way saul is of an evil alignment. you know the show right?

How can you have seen the show and think that Saul does not have an evil alignment? As Jesse says, he's not a criminal lawyer, he's a criminal lawyer. He works with a drug kingpin. He is complicit in the poisoning of Brock. There's no way that Saul is a good guy.

[rishaed]

O.K. everyone I got my info. So, before Betty has a hernia, here is my truthful claim - remember only the truth will set you free !

I am Saul the lawyer. I provide NK protection on anyone I chose. N1, I chooseto protect XStor, (which is why IAC saw me).

I hinted at it after N1 when on pg 34 I said: " I'm surprised that X-stor didn't get wacked N1 based on all his actions - so I think that there is also some 3rd party town protection. Thinking as mafia, I'd want X-stor eliminated ASAP so that the game wouldn't have a focal point, and be more in chaos."

So, I was there N1 protecting XStor from a NK, however, I guess my role does not prevent poisoning.

N2, I was protecting CD from the same (NK), and no, I didn't need Rodion to tell me to. So, obviously Rodion was right about my role (don't bow too low, as you may hurt your back Rodion). I'm now ready to answer any questions you may have.

A few notes here. One, As much as Saul is a strong claim, I'm somewhat doubtful of it here. We had 3 kills last night, hes essentially claiming a doc, and we only had 2 kills on night 1. First off our doc is already dead. Second off, if Saul protected X-Stor according to epic mafia, the poison should have been cured (aka no poisoned death N2), Thirdly I have never seen a role called a "Lawyer" What is your official role title Rugbirn? Fourthly, If Saul is a protective... and we have three scum in each faction M1 and M2, where is the third death coming from?
M1 (Gus): By elimination
GF:?
IAMcaff: Watcher
PCM:Goon.
M2 (Cartel):
GF:Superkeener
Poisoner/WI (weak inv. role) ??
Goon:??? (For balances sake)
the first scum group got a weak investigative, and busdriver is somewhat more powerful than Watcher IMO for a mafia group, because it ensures that kills will dodge protectives.
Add a 3rd Party....DEA (vig maybe with hank gone, but doubtful considering I would have arrests in the Night scene over a kill/poison).
Lastly I don't get why all of you are so sure that Gus offed -X-stor. Considering that from what I know both of the first two lynch deaths came from his faction, X-stor would have been a high risk kill (not as high as CD, but still). It is possible that Gus off'ed Super as well.
The numbers aren't adding up for me on this.... also considering all the dead (7), I don't see how this would be balanced enough for 2 scum factions of 3, DEA, and another killing role. Vig is always a possibility, but CD/X-Stor were really bad vig choices, which leaves Super.
My vote is staying currently until Rugbirn gives me an official role name: Doc ect. He already claimed, I don't see why some of you are letting him off the hook with this, considering that it was practically pulling teeth to get his claim out of him.
fp'd

[betiko]

so right now, if no one counterclaims saul I will fully believe you. I will also assume that rodion is right and we might have tried to read too far into flavour. I think that gus might have performed the xstor kill; and that strike used flavour from the show for the way he killed, but wasn't hinting a mafia game power directly.

No, that's unjustified. He can be telling the truth about his character name and lying about his alignment and role. He can still be the poisoner (it fits with the flavor, roughly).

no way saul is of an evil alignment. you know the show right?

How can you have seen the show and think that Saul does not have an evil alignment? As Jesse says, he's not a criminal lawyer, he's a criminal lawyer. He works with a drug kingpin. He is complicit in the poisoning of Brock. There's no way that Saul is a good guy.

just as much as walt, and I think that walt is town. Saul is a very relyable person. He has had to deal with the 2 douches that are jessie and walt during 5 seasons; and he did it in the best way possible without ever trying to screw them.He was dealing with 2 sociopaths..No way Saul and badger are not on the same alignment.

[MoB Deadly]

I am a terrible mafia player. I am going to partially claim to give counter evidence against Rugbirn.

Town Bus Driver

Last night I bussed CD and Superkeener.

I did this because I was not 100% sold on the Superkeener case. I was going to stay away from CD hoping there was protection out there, but with the doctor dead I felt obligated to protect CD. If CD was targetted and Superkeener died, it would have been a big question mark off my list.

Rugbirn claimed he prevents night kills, if he targetted CD, Superkeener should be alive right now.

Only other option I can think of is that Rugbirn was Roleblocked, but I don't think that happened.

Last night the death toll rose from 2 to 3, that makes me believe that the poisoner is actually a real thing.

I am not quite sure why superkeener was targetted for a night kill though.... And this is giving me second thoughts about writing this post. I really hope I do not regret this later.
I messed up last night and I messed up today, I think that this helps clear the game up a little bit and gets rid of some fog.

I do not want to claim my N1 because I can potentially bust scum later. And I can increase my odds of survival by bussing myself. (WIFOM)
I would rather hold onto my meth results as well, because right now it is barely worth anything, but its value may rise later on if someone lies.

Imma go hide in a corner now. I have flip flopped on Rugbirn back and forth I don't know what to do, that is why I am putting this on the table.

I hope I don't regret this.

[Metsfanmax]

so right now, if no one counterclaims saul I will fully believe you. I will also assume that rodion is right and we might have tried to read too far into flavour. I think that gus might have performed the xstor kill; and that strike used flavour from the show for the way he killed, but wasn't hinting a mafia game power directly.

No, that's unjustified. He can be telling the truth about his character name and lying about his alignment and role. He can still be the poisoner (it fits with the flavor, roughly).

no way saul is of an evil alignment. you know the show right?

How can you have seen the show and think that Saul does not have an evil alignment? As Jesse says, he's not a criminal lawyer, he's a criminal lawyer. He works with a drug kingpin. He is complicit in the poisoning of Brock. There's no way that Saul is a good guy.

just as much as walt, and I think that walt is town. Saul is a very relyable person. He has had to deal with the 2 douches that are jessie and walt during 5 seasons; and he did it in the best way possible without ever trying to screw them.He was dealing with 2 sociopaths..No way Saul and badger are not on the same alignment.

Being "reliable" doesn't make him a good person. He just looks good in comparison to Walt (which is not hard). I'm not certain that Saul is mafia, but I definitely won't agree that it's a certainty he's town, and it's not clear why you would be so confident, given the evidence available. Given the other circumstantial evidence against Rugbirn, this is not enough to shift my eventual vote away from him.

fp

[MoB Deadly]

I should have just waited and seen who else was in a rush to unvote Rugbirn and vote somewhere else.
*sarcastically pats myself on the back*

[betiko]

uh.... i surely wasn't expecting this revelation from mob. I can't really figure how it all adds up now...
I don't think mob could take the risk of saying such thing just to get rugbirn lynched...


So mets, according to your theory: what would it be, jessie and badger town, walt and saul faction number 4 or 5? because you can't possibly tell me that saul and walt aren't of the same faction. Saul has always been extremely loyal to walt.

Also, have you guys ever seen such strong fakeclaims as Saul? in all the games i've been in, if there is a fakeclaim it's always a minor/secondary character, never a top hero from the show. I'd say first walt & jessie, second hank and saul in terms of character importance throughout the entire series.

[Metsfanmax]

If I was forced to guess, I would say Jesse, Walt and Saul are in the same faction that is not town; Badger was enough of an extraneous character that him being town makes sense, if for no other reason than balance.

Also, keep in mind that if Saul is not town, and the claim is a lie, then it's not obvious that the person who really is Saul would counterclaim. Of course, then Rugbirn would be taking a big bet on the idea that Saul is not town. But as he's backed into a corner, he has no choice. Also, again, even if he is Saul, that doesn't mean he's telling the truth about his ability.

[Rugbirn]

@ Rishead, yes my role is Saul Goodman - Lawyer. It wasn't so much "pulling teeth" to get my claim, hell the scene has only been posted 10 hours or so!! Sometimes my computer is "off" longer than that.

Like I said, I needed to get a clarification from Strike before I screwed-up something that might jeopodize the game. You all have been calling me stupid for so long I guess I am starting to believe it ! As I have never played with a poisoner, I'm not too sure about my protection's ability other than my role specifically says protection from night kills. I'm starting to believe that the poison is just flavor (or Gus' modus operendi) as some have indicated, and because XStor was not protected by me N2 (I choose CD for obvious reasons), he was killed.

If this is the case (non-poisoning but actual NK), then my FOS would be off TBO (although I still feel uneasy about him explaining his action before being asked).

@MoB, isn't it fun being on the ledge? I can believe your claim on face value except for one thing you said: "And I can increase my odds of survival by bussing myself. (WIFOM)". I do NOT believe this is TRUE, as my role specifically says that I cannot use my action on myself (i.e.protect myself from NKs) for obvious reasons. Why would Strike set-up your role differently? Doesn't jive with me.

[betiko]

If I was forced to guess, I would say Jesse, Walt and Saul are in the same faction that is not town; Badger was enough of an extraneous character that him being town makes sense, if for no other reason than balance.

Also, keep in mind that if Saul is not town, and the claim is a lie, then it's not obvious that the person who really is Saul would counterclaim. Of course, then Rugbirn would be taking a big bet on the idea that Saul is not town. But as he's backed into a corner, he has no choice. Also, again, even if he is Saul, that doesn't mean he's telling the truth about his ability.

well, while the saul+walt theory seems possible; jessie and badger not being of the same faction, in this case town, makes absolutely no sense. Badger is one of jessie's best friends he always hangs out with, until he becomes big in the meth industry and hires his buddy. Badger is an idiot and can screw up, but never does his friendship with jessie gets totally tarnished, or would jessie hope anything bad happen to him. Badger is his idiot friend, nothing more. no way jessie is not town.
And another faction for walt and saul.... maybe it could explain the multiple killings last night, other than this, it sounds like a lot of factions to me.

Also, do you guys think the cartel could actually be smaller than the gus mafia?

fp

[Metsfanmax]

If I was forced to guess, I would say Jesse, Walt and Saul are in the same faction that is not town; Badger was enough of an extraneous character that him being town makes sense, if for no other reason than balance.

Also, keep in mind that if Saul is not town, and the claim is a lie, then it's not obvious that the person who really is Saul would counterclaim. Of course, then Rugbirn would be taking a big bet on the idea that Saul is not town. But as he's backed into a corner, he has no choice. Also, again, even if he is Saul, that doesn't mean he's telling the truth about his ability.

well, while the saul+walt theory seems possible; jessie and badger not being of the same faction, in this case town, makes absolutely no sense.

You know what else makes absolutely no sense? Walter Jr., the character with cerebral palsy, being the town's tracker. Yet that happened.

[TheForgivenOne]

@MoB, isn't it fun being on the ledge? I can believe your claim on face value except for one thing you said: "And I can increase my odds of survival by bussing myself. (WIFOM)". I do NOT believe this is TRUE, as my role specifically says that I cannot use my action on myself (i.e.protect myself from NKs) for obvious reasons. Why would Strike set-up your role differently? Doesn't jive with me.

It's well known that Busdrivers can bus themselves. I've never been in a game where a BD couldn't bus himself actually.

[betiko]

If I was forced to guess, I would say Jesse, Walt and Saul are in the same faction that is not town; Badger was enough of an extraneous character that him being town makes sense, if for no other reason than balance.

Also, keep in mind that if Saul is not town, and the claim is a lie, then it's not obvious that the person who really is Saul would counterclaim. Of course, then Rugbirn would be taking a big bet on the idea that Saul is not town. But as he's backed into a corner, he has no choice. Also, again, even if he is Saul, that doesn't mean he's telling the truth about his ability.

well, while the saul+walt theory seems possible; jessie and badger not being of the same faction, in this case town, makes absolutely no sense.

You know what else makes absolutely no sense? Walter Jr., the character with cerebral palsy, being the town's tracker. Yet that happened.

Edocsil would modkill you for less than that

Anyway, you are on a character/role read and it has been proven to be inaccurate. I was on a character/faction read.

[Metsfanmax]

If I was forced to guess, I would say Jesse, Walt and Saul are in the same faction that is not town; Badger was enough of an extraneous character that him being town makes sense, if for no other reason than balance.

Also, keep in mind that if Saul is not town, and the claim is a lie, then it's not obvious that the person who really is Saul would counterclaim. Of course, then Rugbirn would be taking a big bet on the idea that Saul is not town. But as he's backed into a corner, he has no choice. Also, again, even if he is Saul, that doesn't mean he's telling the truth about his ability.

well, while the saul+walt theory seems possible; jessie and badger not being of the same faction, in this case town, makes absolutely no sense.

You know what else makes absolutely no sense? Walter Jr., the character with cerebral palsy, being the town's tracker. Yet that happened.

Edocsil would modkill you for less than that

Anyway, you are on a character/role read and it has been proven to be inaccurate. I was on a character/faction read.

The point is, given what has transpired, any flavor reads are highly speculative. Yet you went from planning to lynch to moving on entirely in one post based on flavor spec, which is somewhat suspicious.

[betiko]

Had i moved on entirely, would my vote still be on rugbirn?

What has transpired from flavour reads so far is that important members of the white family had town power roles, and one of jessie and walt s henchmen was vt. There is a logic in strike s flavour. Just not one that sticks as perfectly as you d want.
Now you re going to tell me that saul could be red or maroon because the white family have town power roles that don t stick completely?

[Metsfanmax]

Now you re going to tell me that saul could be red or maroon because the white family have town power roles that don t stick completely?

No, I quite clearly explained that the reason Saul could be a 'bad guy' is that in the show he is, in fact, a bad guy.

[betiko]

Now you re going to tell me that saul could be red or maroon because the white family have town power roles that don t stick completely?

No, I quite clearly explained that the reason Saul could be a 'bad guy' is that in the show he is, in fact, a bad guy.

He is not a bad guy. He is a corrupt lawyer that accepts to represent some drug kingpins and give them legal and business advice. What you are implying is that there is a third mafia faction there.

[Rodion]

I need to reread the last few pages to make sure I got everything I wanted out of them, but for now:

1 - Rugbirn, what is your faction? What is your winning condition? (remember to explain the win condition with your own words instead of copying your role PM).
2 - Rugbirn, what question did you ask Strike? What was his answer?
3 - MoB, I remember the last time you claimed town busdriver in an Official Game! (Nightmare Before Christmas)
4 - MoB, why didn't you claim right after Rugbirn?
5 - From my interpretation of the flavour, Keener got vigged. The interpretation starts with Gus killing Hank (because the guy who killed Hank was tasting "bitter sorrow"), which means the Cartel killed Stor (makes sense since Stor suspected Keener and all eyes would probably be busy looking at CD) and Keener was killed by someone else (a town vig perhaps). Anyway, MoB, If you're swapping with the intention of keeping someone alive, you need to make sure you are swapping them with the least likely players to get NKed. Anyone who's suspected could be vigged. I think I'd have swapped CD with Mets or Jonty last night, but it's too late to talk about that now.

[Rodion]

6 - Lawyer, traditionally, is the opposite of framer. It's a mafia role that "innocents" their target if they are investigated. Never seen one here on CC, though.

[Rugbirn]

@ Rodion -
1. Obviously, from my actions I am town aligned.
1.5 My winning condition is to be the last standing (quite doubtful now)
2. My question to Strike was about what I could/could not say about my role - claim wording wise. Nothing major, but I wanted clarification so as not to get mod killed.

[TheForgivenOne]

@ Rodion -
1. Obviously, from my actions I am town aligned.
1.5 My winning condition is to be the last standing (quite doubtful now)
2. My question to Strike was about what I could/could not say about my role - claim wording wise. Nothing major, but I wanted clarification so as not to get mod killed.

What? Being the last standing isn't generally what describes town win condition. You sound like a 3rd party now.

[Rodion]

I'm happy with Rugbirn's lynch.

Still, we should use our time to discuss other things. I'd like some insight in Jonty's PR, for instance.

Getting Greg to talk more is not bad either.

[Rugbirn]

@ Rodion - Why do you want to lynch the townie protector? Because you are scum?

[Rodion]

Being the last one standing is the winning condition of a serial killer.