Proof of Concept - Discussion

[dolomite13]

This map has no title and I am not asking for it to advance to draft anytime soon. I was hoping to instead start a discussion about certain types of gameplay in the hope that people will chime in about the ideas I have put forth here. Think of this as a "proof of concept" or a gameplay "white paper" that may or may not someday be turned into a map.

I look forward to reading your comments.

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Updated 11/21 based on thread discussion

Here we go...

For gameplay I am focusing on these three core ideas.

1) bonus rewards that are non linear or inverted.
2) bonuses that are based loosely on a fibonacci sequence of numbers.
3) a personalized win condition different for each player that can shift in nukes based games.

In my opinion, one of the more interesting types of gameplay is Assassin. Balancing assaults against all opponents while you simultaneously work to eliminate your target can be quite difficult. This gave me an idea for a map that assigned you a “win condition” target randomly at the beginning of the game.

I also would like to use a bonus structure that rewards you for having “just enough” territories to accomplish your task at hand but penalizes you for conquering too much. It might be a good idea to disallow Terminator games on this map as well because of this.

I am giving the map locations generic names from Chess for now mainly because I want to discuss gameplay without the added burden graphics nitpicking.

Game Modes

Because of this win condition I believe it would be too easy to “cheat” in a team game to Team and Polymorphic are out.

Player Starts
- Each player starts with a King, 3 of that Kings 5 Knights, 1 Rook and 3 Pawns.

Win Condition
- Control the matching King of the Rook you control. Seems simple but to assault any Knights you must first gain control of 8 Pawns in the arena.

Lose Condition
- Control no King or Knights and you are out of the game.

Board Areas (120 territories)
- 12 Kings (with 5 Knights each)
- 12 Enemy locations
- 36 Pawns (in the Arena)

Rooks (R)
- Designate which of your opponents you need to conquer to win the game
- Can not assault or bombard anything
- Starts with 3 (This means you will probably only drop 1 here in Manual deployment games and have 2 additional troops to take into the fray)

Kings (K)
- Starts with 3 troops
- Can assault Matching Knights
- Can assault any Rook except their own if you hold no Rook (due to nukes)

Knights (N)
- Are the defenders of the king as well as masters of battle and may assault pawns.
- Start with 3 troops
- Can assault Pawns
- Can assault their King when you control at least 3 of them
- Can be assaulted by Pawns when you control at least 8 Pawns

Pawns (P)
- Your Pawns are your general troops. They vie for control of the battlefield so that you can more effectively wage war but cannot themselves become embroiled in the war until they have some semblance of control on the open battlefield.
- Can assault any other Pawns
- When you have 8 or more Pawns they can assault any Knight

Bonuses

The bonuses are based on Fibonacci numbers rather than standard linear progression of numbers to simulate risk vs reward. In the case of Knights, the more you assault a King’s position the more aggressively they will defend their position. The more defense they have the less they feel the need to increase their troops.

- King & 0 Matching Knights = +13
- King & 1 Matching Knight = +8
- King & 2 Matching Knights = +5
- King & 3 Matching Knights = +3 - players start with 3 of their own 5 knights
- King & 4 Matching Knights = +2
- King & 5 Matching Knights = +1

- 0 Pawns = + 5
- 1 Pawns = +3
- 2 Pawns = +1
- 3 Pawns = +0 - Players start with 3 pawns each
- 5 Pawns = +1
- 8 Pawns = +3
- 13 Pawns = +5

- Rook & 0 Matching Knights = +1
- Rook & 1 Matching Knight = +2
- Rook & 2 Matching Knights = +3
- Rook & 3 Matching Knights = +5
- Rook & 4 Matching Knights = +8
- Rook & 5 Matching Knights = +13

http://imageshack.com/a/img19/5136/282c.png

[dolomite13]

So lets see if we can spark any discussion.

In this bonus example you start with 3 Pawns. If your opponents leave you alone and you do not expand you get 0 bonus. If you expand you get more troops and you can eventually get to a conditional border at the 8 troop level. However if your opponents decide to eliminate you altogether you gain a bonus that can then be applied to the defense of your Knights which can retake the Pawns.

- 0 Pawns = + 5
- 1 Pawns = +3
- 2 Pawns = +1
- 3 Pawns = +0 - Players start with 3 pawns each
- 5 Pawns = +1
- 8 Pawns = +3 - Pawns van assault Knights
- 13 Pawns = +5

* Does this seem like a mechanic that would interest you in a game?

* Does it bring a new type of strategic decision to CC?

* What are your thoughts?

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[generalhead]

I really like the bonus structure adding a different style of game play that has never been done before. I really like your
mock up draft too. The map is simple but the bonus structure is complex.
I am not too sure what having the built in assassin mode does for the project though. I am not a big fan of the built in assassin setup up; if people want to play assassin on the map they could just play it in assassin.
You could have it that player A has to hold so many pawns to attack player B's rook which then leads to Player B's knights then his king; If the player A loses so many pawns before he defeats the king his territories on player B's rook and knights reverts to neutral. This might add to game play but might also change the game play style that you were looking for. I also don't know if this is possible to do.

[dolomite13]

I really like the bonus structure adding a different style of game play that has never been done before. I really like your mock up draft too. The map is simple but the bonus structure is complex.

Thanx

I am not too sure what having the built in assassin mode does for the project though. I am not a big fan of the built in assassin setup up; if people want to play assassin on the map they could just play it in assassin.

In this case it gives each player a personal win condition. And in a fog game nobody would know who was going after who. And in games with less than 12 players some players might be going after a neutral position. It might actually be fun to make each king neutral and just assign players as knights to defend a king and pawns with which to assault enemy pawns, knights and kings.

You could have it that player A has to hold so many pawns to attack player B's rook which then leads to Player B's knights then his king; If the player A loses so many pawns before he defeats the king his territories on player B's rook and knights reverts to neutral. This might add to game play but might also change the game play style that you were looking for. I also don't know if this is possible to do.

Yes you could add the rook as representative of lets say "storming the castle" before you are able to fight the knights. And you could have elimination from the game if you hold no pawns at all but that wouldn't give you a chance to get back in the game if you loose your pawns. But I see where you are going here.

This map will probably never be made, I created it mostly to explore possibilities of how alternative bonus structures could be applied and what types of scenarios might best utilize them. But who knows once I the maps I am working on move up a few rungs on the foundry ladder I may start looking for a theme for this one.

Thanks so much for your feedback it is greatly appreciated.

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[Donelladan]

This map will probably never be made, I created it mostly to explore possibilities of how alternative bonus structures could be applied and what types of scenarios might best utilize them. But who knows once I the maps I am working on move up a few rungs on the foundry ladder I may start looking for a theme for this one.

Why?
Seems everything already good.

And what's the pb with terminator for this map.

And because you really can’t conquer your enemies Rook’s, Assassin and Terminator would be out as well.

Just take your ennemy king and you got his point in terminator.
You may try to go for your victory condition, and win all points, of you may see an easy target and simply take his king for his points.
Kind of same with terminator on any map with objectives. On King's Court II or City mogul that I often play in terminator, sometimes I take objectives, sometimes I kill my opponent. It should work also for this map.

For assassin, it would give you two possibilty to win, either take king of your target, or the king that match your rook. Could still work but I understand you wish to withdraw the option.

In Nukes games you could be out with a single nuke so that would need to be eliminated.

The Labyrinth map, and the antartica map if played with 9+ players have exactly the same problem. But Nuke are still allowed, matter of chance, make the game very luck, especially in assassin and terminator but well, some people like it. Nuke should be allow for this map too.

[dolomite13]

This map will probably never be made, I created it mostly to explore possibilities of how alternative bonus structures could be applied and what types of scenarios might best utilize them. But who knows once I the maps I am working on move up a few rungs on the foundry ladder I may start looking for a theme for this one.

Why? Seems everything already good.

Once we get a solid set of mechanics for the idea I will consider putting together a theme for the map and submitting it for real. The odd/alternate bonus structure needs a bit of discussion before going forward. And to be honest using the chess piece names and making the map so abstract was just so we could discuss it but if that ends up being the theme people like I will be happy to run with it.

And what's the pb with terminator for this map.

I generally don't play much if any terminator. So I wasn't sure how it would even play on this map. I would be happy to remove that from my list of banned mechanics for the map if people think it would be fun to have it as an option.

And because you really can’t conquer your enemies Rook’s, Assassin and Terminator would be out as well.

Just take your enemy king and you got his point in terminator. You may try to go for your victory condition, and win all points, of you may see an easy target and simply take his king for his points.
Kind of same with terminator on any map with objectives. On King's Court II or City mogul that I often play in terminator, sometimes I take objectives, sometimes I kill my opponent. It should work also for this map.

OK sounds reasonable

For assassin, it would give you two possibilities to win, either take king of your target, or the king that matches your rook. Could still work but I understand you wish to withdraw the option.

Well actually it would open up a second avenue to winning and in general win condition maps with assassin can often be fun. Especially when the win condition is really hard to accomplish.

In Nukes games you could be out with a single nuke so that would need to be eliminated.

The Labyrinth map, and the antartica map if played with 9+ players have exactly the same problem. But Nuke are still allowed, matter of chance, make the game very luck, especially in assassin and terminator but well, some people like it. Nuke should be allow for this map too.

I originally had a condition that of you lost your rook you could assault any rook from your king. This let you select a new target and even let you steal someones target. This made the decision to nuke out a rook a tough one. If you hold 3 knights you can assault that king so if you lost your king to a nuke then you could get that back as well. You can have multiple kings but only 1 Rook in this scenario.

I loved reading your feedback it definitely made me see new avenues of gameplay that would be opened up by allowing those gameplay modes.

Thanx

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[dolomite13]

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Original post updated based on discussion to this point ...
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