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[Vacation] Allegheny Forest,PA,USA. [I]

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Re: Allegheny Forest, PA, USA. 6/10 MAP UPDATE p.8

Postby seamusk on Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:53 am

RjBeals wrote:
Click image to enlarge.
image


I think you need to work on the forest background. It looks like you took 1 tree and copied it 100 times to make the forest. Add some shading and different colors maybe. Also the legend background could use a bit of style.

Yep. Read above. I did do that because the whole tree thing is very time consuming. So I'm working on it in stages.
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Re: Allegheny Forest, PA, USA. 6/10 MAP UPDATE p.8

Postby seamusk on Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:57 am

conquerAce wrote:I kinda like the way that it looks for tunungwant 1 and i think that you wanted to do that for millstone creek 3 but it just shifted up and right.


OK. I can probably do that. Just need to rearrange a couple of things.

conquerAce wrote:Okay so if i take tionesta does it count for the tionesta creek bonus? allegheny river bonus? if not then why have it as a shared tert?

Tionesta City and Tionesta Township are two distinct territories. Clarifying this is something we've worked on but I guess it still isn't clear enough. Tionesta City is the buildings symbol. Tionesta Township is the shared territory and does count towards both... I hope that helps.
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Re: Allegheny Forest, PA, USA. 6/10 MAP UPDATE p.8

Postby conquerAce on Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:01 pm

okay yes that makes sense... sorry i knew that already wonk wonk
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Re: Allegheny Forest, PA, USA. 6/10 MAP UPDATE p.8

Postby mibi on Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:16 pm

I think you have taken something as simple and serene as a national forest, and stuff it with so many icons and gimmicks that it looks like someone threw up their fruit loops everywhere.
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Re: Allegheny Forest, PA, USA. 6/10 MAP UPDATE p.8

Postby Androidz on Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:25 am

Great map. I think the terriortory lines need to be redrawn but don't listen to me:P im just picky:P
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Re: Allegheny Forest, PA, USA. 6/10 MAP UPDATE p.8

Postby Ruben Cassar on Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:02 am

Too complicated...too crowded...and graphics are too dull.

I think this one needs a major overhaul in every department...but it might just be me.
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Re: Allegheny Forest, PA, USA. 6/10 MAP UPDATE p.8

Postby seamusk on Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:06 am

Ruben Cassar wrote:Too complicated...too crowded...and graphics are too dull.

I think this one needs a major overhaul in every department...but it might just be me.

Ruben - I appreciate the comments. That said, I'm going for large and complex here. All of the effects are theme-based, not random. A big goal of this map is to have a large classic style map in one sense, but also to create a map that forces the player to think of several elements at once. And yet, to maintain simplicity in those elements, unlike certain maps where players can dominate without paying any mind whatsoever to all the special elements piled on.

As for graphics, what can I say. I'm going for a certain look. No doubt that I need to finish some of the forest work I started on and what not. And there is always room for improvement on the crowded side so if you have specific elements that you find unnecessarily crowding please do say so. I'm not removing game elements at this point. The test games will be critical to making those kinds of decisions and they are in progress. So, I'll keep that comment in mind while I work.
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Re: Allegheny Forest, PA, USA. 6/10 MAP UPDATE p.8

Postby Ruben Cassar on Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:05 am

seamusk wrote:
Ruben Cassar wrote:Too complicated...too crowded...and graphics are too dull.

I think this one needs a major overhaul in every department...but it might just be me.

Ruben - I appreciate the comments. That said, I'm going for large and complex here. All of the effects are theme-based, not random. A big goal of this map is to have a large classic style map in one sense, but also to create a map that forces the player to think of several elements at once. And yet, to maintain simplicity in those elements, unlike certain maps where players can dominate without paying any mind whatsoever to all the special elements piled on.

As for graphics, what can I say. I'm going for a certain look. No doubt that I need to finish some of the forest work I started on and what not. And there is always room for improvement on the crowded side so if you have specific elements that you find unnecessarily crowding please do say so. I'm not removing game elements at this point. The test games will be critical to making those kinds of decisions and they are in progress. So, I'll keep that comment in mind while I work.


Agreed...that's why I said "but it might just be me".

However allow me to make a couple of comments.

I think the map is a bit too cluttered. Maybe you can enlarge a bit the play area and try reducing the size of the legend? The small version of the map could be very challenging to make legible.

Graphic wise you need to do something about the background. Experiment a bit with it and try to make it a bit more "forest-like".

Good luck with your map!
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Re: Allegheny Forest, PA, USA. 6/10 MAP UPDATE p.8

Postby seamusk on Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:36 pm

Ruben Cassar wrote:I think the map is a bit too cluttered. Maybe you can enlarge a bit the play area and try reducing the size of the legend? The small version of the map could be very challenging to make legible.

Graphic wise you need to do something about the background. Experiment a bit with it and try to make it a bit more "forest-like".

Good luck with your map!


Thanks mate. I don't suppose you can comment on whether you think the forest touchups originally done in the northwest corner are the right direction or not. That is the direction I hope to bring things. I kind of needed a short break from this map but once I finish with a couple of other things I'll be back on this full bore.
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Re: Allegheny Forest, PA, USA. 6/10 MAP UPDATE p.8

Postby kevlove102 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:49 pm

As a Pennsylvania resident I gotta say Bravo! on this idea....kinda cracks me up that people around the world will be fighting over the Allegheny Forest....

congrats and good luck with the map
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Re: Allegheny Forest, PA, USA. 6/10 MAP UPDATE p.8

Postby cptbighead on Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:05 pm

can all you simple people appreciate a good map. just cause the majority of you cant make a good map that isnt classic with diff colors and names. that doesnt mean that you have to knock someone else's good idea. this site needs a complex map. get over yourselves and try something dif for once. thank you.
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Re: Allegheny Forest, PA, USA. 6/10 MAP UPDATE p.8

Postby ZeakCytho on Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:11 pm

cptbighead wrote:can all you simple people appreciate a good map. just cause the majority of you cant make a good map that isnt classic with diff colors and names. that doesnt mean that you have to knock someone else's good idea. this site needs a complex map. get over yourselves and try something dif for once. thank you.


Thank god Seamusk is better at taking criticism than you are. :roll:

This map is looking better than before, but I think the background still needs work. Is there a reason why the territory numbers have different symbols around them for each continent? If they were uniform, perhaps using a simple symbol like the ones in W. Br. Tionesta, the map would look a bit less cluttered.
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Re: Allegheny Forest, PA, USA. 6/10 MAP UPDATE p.8

Postby seamusk on Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:15 pm

ZeakCytho wrote:
cptbighead wrote:can all you simple people appreciate a good map. just cause the majority of you cant make a good map that isnt classic with diff colors and names. that doesnt mean that you have to knock someone else's good idea. this site needs a complex map. get over yourselves and try something dif for once. thank you.


Thank god Seamusk is better at taking criticism than you are. :roll:

This map is looking better than before, but I think the background still needs work. Is there a reason why the territory numbers have different symbols around them for each continent? If they were uniform, perhaps using a simple symbol like the ones in W. Br. Tionesta, the map would look a bit less cluttered.

Yes. I did that to provide another means for identifying territories by continent. It was suggested be Coleman awhile ago. Not saying it cannnot look better. Those symbols are the first run at the idea...
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Re: Allegheny Forest, PA, USA. 6/10 MAP UPDATE p.8

Postby ZeakCytho on Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:18 pm

seamusk wrote:Yes. I did that to provide another means for identifying territories by continent. It was suggested be Coleman awhile ago. Not saying it cannnot look better. Those symbols are the first run at the idea...


Oh, sorry. I haven't been following the thread :oops:.

I'm not sure the continents really need another form of distinction - I could tell them apart fine. But I guess if some people are having trouble, then something needs to change. I would work on making all the signs smaller so they take up less space, if that's doable. Some of them are probably as small as they can get.
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Re: Allegheny Forest, PA, USA. 6/10 MAP UPDATE p.8

Postby seamusk on Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:22 pm

ZeakCytho wrote:
seamusk wrote:Yes. I did that to provide another means for identifying territories by continent. It was suggested be Coleman awhile ago. Not saying it cannnot look better. Those symbols are the first run at the idea...


Oh, sorry. I haven't been following the thread :oops:.

I'm not sure the continents really need another form of distinction - I could tell them apart fine. But I guess if some people are having trouble, then something needs to change. I would work on making all the signs smaller so they take up less space, if that's doable. Some of them are probably as small as they can get.

no worries. The issue is when you go to small map size. The font and sign need to be big enough to maintain legibility. I'm open to ideas...
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Re: Allegheny Forest, PA, USA. 6/10 MAP UPDATE p.8

Postby dittoeevee8888 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:33 pm

Okay, a few things. Firstly, I think that the cities, in my opinion, look a bit too big, especially Tionesta and Sheffield. It's a bit cluttered in my opinion, especially in the middle, and the size of the city doesn't help it. One thing you may need to clarify is that do the territories that share two watersheds two different territories or one? Because if it is one, I think you should probably blend it a bit more, because some of them really don't seem to be one territory, especially the one on Tunugwant Cr. Muzette seems a bit far away compared to the rest of the forest villages, you probably could make it a bit closer...

One question, though...I don't understand why all territories aren't marked with those orange signs...you probably have to explain it to me.
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Re: Allegheny Forest, PA, USA. 6/10 MAP UPDATE p.8

Postby seamusk on Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:10 pm

dittoeevee8888 wrote:Okay, a few things. Firstly, I think that the cities, in my opinion, look a bit too big, especially Tionesta and Sheffield. It's a bit cluttered in my opinion, especially in the middle, and the size of the city doesn't help it. One thing you may need to clarify is that do the territories that share two watersheds two different territories or one? Because if it is one, I think you should probably blend it a bit more, because some of them really don't seem to be one territory, especially the one on Tunugwant Cr. Muzette seems a bit far away compared to the rest of the forest villages, you probably could make it a bit closer...

One question, though...I don't understand why all territories aren't marked with those orange signs...you probably have to explain it to me.

I can shrink the cities some. I thought about it at one point.

That territories that share a watershed are one territory each. However, isn't that evident from the fact that they share watersheds? I'm not being difficult, I am asking, because if they were two territories they wouldn't be sharing the watershed right? In any case, blending a bit more is doable.

Muzette is away for a reason, because it is only accessible by trail. Do you still think I should mvoe it?

The territories adjacent to cities and villages are unlabeled townships named after said township or village. That said, this has been enough of an issue that I'm going to give them all a T label.

Thanks for the input. Good stuff.
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Re: Allegheny Forest, PA, USA. 6/10 MAP UPDATE p.8

Postby dittoeevee8888 on Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:43 pm

seamusk wrote:
dittoeevee8888 wrote:Okay, a few things. Firstly, I think that the cities, in my opinion, look a bit too big, especially Tionesta and Sheffield. It's a bit cluttered in my opinion, especially in the middle, and the size of the city doesn't help it. One thing you may need to clarify is that do the territories that share two watersheds two different territories or one? Because if it is one, I think you should probably blend it a bit more, because some of them really don't seem to be one territory, especially the one on Tunugwant Cr. Muzette seems a bit far away compared to the rest of the forest villages, you probably could make it a bit closer...

One question, though...I don't understand why all territories aren't marked with those orange signs...you probably have to explain it to me.

I can shrink the cities some. I thought about it at one point.

That territories that share a watershed are one territory each. However, isn't that evident from the fact that they share watersheds? I'm not being difficult, I am asking, because if they were two territories they wouldn't be sharing the watershed right? In any case, blending a bit more is doable.

Muzette is away for a reason, because it is only accessible by trail. Do you still think I should mvoe it?

The territories adjacent to cities and villages are unlabeled townships named after said township or village. That said, this has been enough of an issue that I'm going to give them all a T label.

Thanks for the input. Good stuff.


You don't have to move Muzette. Seems a bit far off, but I can live with it. But I'm supposing the only thing that can attack Muzette is the camping site above Muzette?

Also, I thought that it was one territory (the two sharing watershed things) but it doesn't look like one territory. Blending would definately help.
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Re: Allegheny Forest, PA, USA. 6/10 MAP UPDATE p.8

Postby seamusk on Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:02 pm

dittoeevee8888 wrote:You don't have to move Muzette. Seems a bit far off, but I can live with it. But I'm supposing the only thing that can attack Muzette is the camping site above Muzette?

Yes. That is correct.

dittoeevee8888 wrote:Also, I thought that it was one territory (the two sharing watershed things) but it doesn't look like one territory. Blending would definately help.

Actually I just did this and it looks much better I think. I'll be posting an update in a day or so...
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Re: Allegheny Forest, PA, USA. 6/19 MAP UPDATE p.10

Postby seamusk on Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:53 pm

Map update. Some of the changes I've made:

    Changed labels for territories that share watersheds and made numbers clearer
    Added township labels for all townships
    Shrunk the cities. poor cities.
    Shifted Ludlow up to clarify it is in the Township territory.
    Increased scale of map and refitted legend.
    Added shadows to buildings
    Added effects to city/village text
    Reposition oil field markers

Version 2.4 Map - June 19, 2008
Click image to enlarge.
image


QUESTIONS
Are the territory signs ok?
Add effects to symbols?

TO DO LIST
redraw continent/territory boundaries between clarion 1 and clarion 2.
redraw territory boundaries. Slightly thicker and neater.
Build forest.
Make Small Version.
Re-draft xml.
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Re: Allegheny Forest, PA, USA. 6/19 MAP UPDATE p.10

Postby gimil on Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:51 am

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What do you know about map making, bitch?

natty_dread wrote:I was wrong


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Re: Allegheny Forest, PA, USA. 6/19 MAP UPDATE p.10

Postby MrBenn on Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:08 am

Welcome to the main foundry!

Here are my intial comments in no particular order:

1. At some point you will need to work on your territory borders as they are quite pixelly.
2. It might be worth having a look at the small version (up to 630px wide) soonish.
3. I'm not too keen on the pine trees in the background/ at the edges - they look a bit 'generic' and uniform.
4. What are the dark red 'stripy' bits?
5. The numerous little shapes (I think they're territory labels) are not that pleasing on the eye - they make the map look a little cluttered.
6. You've got some numbers in squares (I've seen a 3, 5, and 7), and I have no idea what they mean

I like the look and feel of this map though.
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Re: Allegheny Forest, PA, USA. 6/19 MAP UPDATE p.10

Postby seamusk on Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:42 am

MrBenn wrote:Welcome to the main foundry!

Thanks for the Welcome!

1. At some point you will need to work on your territory borders as they are quite pixelly.

Yeah, this is on the to do list. They need to be redrawn for several reasons. They have varied width and all kinds of pixel issues.

2. It might be worth having a look at the small version (up to 630px wide) soonish.

This is the last small map I made. Since then I've increased the size of the play map a lot so I think it will work better. I realize this lacks numbers but I didn't want to deal at the time...
Click image to enlarge.
image


EDITED to add that based on this small version I increased the size of territory signs and numbers and made a few other changes as well. There was an even earlier small map with 88s and I feel confident it will be ok. But I'll make another one sometime in the future with the 888s. First I'll fix the other stuff. forest, territory boundaries, etc...

3. I'm not too keen on the pine trees in the background/ at the edges - they look a bit 'generic' and uniform.

Question: Do you like the look just north of Buckaloons/Warren? I made an upland bog there with some tree mix. The rest was all one tree multiplied times 10,000 or something. That was just a time saver and place holder. I have 5 or 6 tree types plus the bog sphagnum moss I was going to use to build a more complex forest but it is time consuming so I focused on other elements.
4. What are the dark red 'stripy' bits?

Impassable private lands. I can add to legend or redo. I am trying to keep them simple but clearly impassables. I didn't like them when I made them all black or gray.
5. The numerous little shapes (I think they're territory labels) are not that pleasing on the eye - they make the map look a little cluttered.

Yeah, different shapes by watershed. I need to look back, but they were recommended by Coleman some time ago as an idea to clarify which was which watershed. I am pretty happy maybe making them all uniform if folks think that the different watersheds are distinguishable enough as is.
6. You've got some numbers in squares (I've seen a 3, 5, and 7), and I have no idea what they mean

Territory numbers. The squares, however, represent territories that actually lie in two watersheds. Therefore they count towards both bonuses. I put this in the legend but if it is unclear I'm open to ideas. If you've played 8 thoughts this is similar to that in that one territory can fall in multiple continents.

I like the look and feel of this map though.

Thanks! It has come a long ways. Now that it is the main foundry I'll probably move to work on the territory boundaries and forest this week.
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Re: Allegheny Forest, PA, USA. [I] 6/19 MAP UPDATE p.10

Postby t-o-m on Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:08 am

for me the background seems a little busy...


and well done on idea passed
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Re: Allegheny Forest, PA, USA. [I] 6/19 MAP UPDATE p.10

Postby Androidz on Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:15 am

Well done Seamusk=)
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