Famine V.19.3 pg1+35 [I] [Reworking]

[bryguy]

still waiting for update.

who isnt?

*sigh* guess I have to give you guys an update sometime. Oh well, I cant think of anything else to do, so I guess I might as well now


V.19
V19[clicky]

Click image to enlarge.

Things You Need To Know

7 Continents
8 Starting Points
(I think) 105 Territories

Changes:

Water
Mud
Mountain
Ground
Desert
Borders
Castles
Villages
Some Names
Legend
Legend Miniature Picture Thing
Resources
Bridges
Roads
Trees
Flax Changed to Peas
Oasis
Tac Village Changed to Tir Village
Mud Territories are now All Killer Neutral
Added Glow Behind Title
No More Dodge/Burn
Mud Territories Names
Glow behind M18, M17, and M16
Slight Glow Behind Neba and Tray Vilalge
Beets Moved
Borders Modified (example: Iladi and Oyp)
Water Depth
Some of the Wording on the Legend

In short: everything

Points of Discussion:

Does this look better?
Should I change some of the castles shapes? (plz name which ones)
Do the castles look more like castles?
Should I rotate the castles at all?
Are the villages good?
Is the scale okay?
Should I change the borders layer mode to like overlay or 50% opacity or anything?
Are the resources okay?
How about the water and mud? Are they okay?
Anybody have any good ideas of how to explain in the legend that M4 and M5 can attack each other, and that M10 M15 and M14 can attack each other, and that M11 M10 and M14 can attack each other?
Anybody have any good ideas of how to reword

The current famine causes all normal territories in your possession to have a negative bonus of 1; yet if you possess a resource you will not be affected by the famine in that resource's effect area

???
Anything else you want to discuss

[BBoz]

Nice update...

Some thoughts / observations:

- Everywhere seems to have texture except the upper right. It just goes strangely smooth. I think you are trying to do a desert dunes thing, but the shading just isn't quite getting it there.
- What are all the little green dots?
- I think the stream could use a little more blue than green. Just seems a little too "psychedelic" for the map and other colors on the map.
- I think the villages look great!!! Love the 3d look.
- The castle shapes seem fine, but they don't have the 3D effect of the villages, would be nice to see them with more depth.
- The transition to the mud seems a little abrupt. I think it would look better if it wasn't quite so delineated, sorta like you merged the colors into the mountain. You could make it a short transition, but the line seems a little too sharp.
- I think the oasis at the top, the green just seems like a green smudge. Can you give it a little color variation or something?
- For the connections between mud areas, some ideas I had were, a "log" across the river. A "Rope Bridge". Another option might be to put "docks" in different places along the river, like old docks that are way out of the water. And then add something to the legend about docks being able to attack each other. You could use the docks idea with something else, like old crab traps, grounded boats with holes in them, etc... One final thought might to be the areas where you want the water crossable to make is more like a "marsh" and say something in the legend about being able to cross marshy areas in the water.
- Like the general texture of the land.
- Roads are nice. Might want to add one between Renx and Tray village though.
- I think you did a good job on the fields look.

[t-o-m]

It looks much better, although the land and that bridge looks like a spaceship
The land looks as if its floating, and that desert needs texture.

Looking good, it just needs a bit of tidying up with terit lines etc.

[whitestazn88]

villages are looking sick, in a good way....

but the castles still need work.

[whitestazn88]

the mud for the area surrounding the bottom left land mass also looks like it could be made... muddy-er

[bryguy]

It looks much better, although the land and that bridge looks like a spaceship
The land looks as if its floating, and that desert needs texture.

Looking good, it just needs a bit of tidying up with terit lines etc.

yea sorry about the land and mud not blending well together, I tried everything (blurring the border, gaussian blurring the border, and more) but everything I tried made it look horrible. And sure, I can tidy up the terit lines and add a texture to the desert

villages are looking sick, in a good way....

but the castles still need work.

lol thanks

sure, there was another way I could have done the castles but I decided not to for a bit, but I can now I guess

the mud for the area surrounding the bottom left land mass also looks like it could be made... muddy-er

hmm... Im struggling to get what you mean here. Do you mean It should extend out farther instead of stopping a little bit back? If you do, then there may be a couple of things I could try to make it extend more, but so far all my attempts to have been futile.

Nice update...

Some thoughts / observations:

- Everywhere seems to have texture except the upper right. It just goes strangely smooth. I think you are trying to do a desert dunes thing, but the shading just isn't quite getting it there.

Ty

Yea, I forgot to add texture to the dunes. I can try adding a slight texture, and see how that looks

- What are all the little green dots?

trees

- I think the stream could use a little more blue than green. Just seems a little too "psychedelic" for the map and other colors on the map.

actually its a light blue color Im using, but I can try adding like a color overlay or something to see if I can make it more "blue-ish"

- I think the villages look great!!! Love the 3d look.

Thanks I downloaded a script for GIMP that allows me now (with uh... some difficulty) to simulate most of the layer effects of Photoshop

- The castle shapes seem fine, but they don't have the 3D effect of the villages, would be nice to see them with more depth.

okay, I couldnt decide whether to do them like the villages or like how I have them now, but Ill see what they look like when they are like the villages

- The transition to the mud seems a little abrupt. I think it would look better if it wasn't quite so delineated, sorta like you merged the colors into the mountain. You could make it a short transition, but the line seems a little too sharp.

yea very sorry about that I tried everything I could think of, but they all made it look horrible, and so then I sent Telvannia a copy of the file, so he could try and figure something out, so he tried everything he had time to and got nowhere. I can try blurring it slightly again, but last time I tried it ended up hurting my eyes

- I think the oasis at the top, the green just seems like a green smudge. Can you give it a little color variation or something?

okay sure

- For the connections between mud areas, some ideas I had were, a "log" across the river. A "Rope Bridge". Another option might be to put "docks" in different places along the river, like old docks that are way out of the water. And then add something to the legend about docks being able to attack each other. You could use the docks idea with something else, like old crab traps, grounded boats with holes in them, etc... One final thought might to be the areas where you want the water crossable to make is more like a "marsh" and say something in the legend about being able to cross marshy areas in the water.

thanks, ill look into that

maybe something like a stranded boat connecting the territories?

quote]- Like the general texture of the land.
- Roads are nice. Might want to add one between Renx and Tray village though.
- I think you did a good job on the fields look.[/quote]

Thank you, and Ill see how it looks, cause I know occasionally the roads dont look so good


Thanks for the comments guys

[BBoz]

I agree, the mud needs some tweaking.. Here is an excellent example I found..


http://forums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=601110

I don't think this one is as good, but given the size of the mud on the map and that it has instructions, might be more practical. Looks a little too glossy, maybe you could darken it up like the pic above.


http://www.insidegraphics.com/textures/photoshop_textures_tricks.asp

As for the "boats"... conceptually, I was thinking of something like this..



You can see some "boat linking" in Sydney Metro map or do something more generic like any boat could attack any boat.

[BBoz]

Here's another good boat example... Of course you would have little ones in the mud, just trying to show what I was thinking of conceptually. An old wood boat, stranded on dry land.



- For the Bridges, you might try to give them a wood or cobblestone like texture.

As for the mud transition, I wonder if doing some cracked mud / land (see pic below) near the borders of the mud / territories then the more wet, mushy mud (like the pics in the prior post) on the flatter part of the mud area as it goes to the water might help the transition.

[oaktown]

the map does, indeed, look better... but hopefully you can bring it up to the "THIS MAP ROCKS" level. Since you're getting a lot of graphics suggestions already, I'll focus on play.

The biggest problem right now is that the southern three landmasses seem to be cut off from the rest of the map.

I have much to say about your legend info:

The current famine causes all normal territories to have a negative bonus of 1; yet if you possess a resource you will not be affected by the famine in that resource's effect area.

For starters, this map would come together better for me if you somehow give some background that puts us in the mindset of the map... what "current famine?" Really paint the picture for us about what has happened to this Land of the Eight Kings, or whatever you want to call it.

A bonus is positive. It's something you get. I know we talk about negative bonuses here in the foundry, but on an actual map you'll need to find a better way to phrase this. Maybe call it a "penalty."

The resource area mini-map is a nice start in helping this map make sense, but you should probably label that map "Resource Effect Areas" since that is what you call them in the legend. And the borders between the Resource Effect Areas probably need to somehow stand out better on the main map - there are other black lines darker than the lines between the Areas, such as the shadows.

But here's what really gets me: the way the territories will play. For example, let's take a look at the mud areas... they serve what purpose, exactly? If I am reading your legend right, they don't give any bonuses, they don't help you get anywhere, and after blowing a stack of armies trying to defeat the six neutrals you just lose them. And mud areas that would be useful territories - the creeks - aren't playable. I am going to guess that nobody will ever take a mud territory in 98% of games on this map, and those that do will kick themselves and never do it again. Change them or get rid of them.

The same goes for many other territories on this map: Nav, for example. It doesn't help you get anywhere, it doesn't give you a bonus, and you can't stack armies up there for an offensive because they bleed off. Same with Napt, Nara, Aran, Jako, Opesto, Camt, Caest, Teh, and any other territory that isn't the shortest route between two territories that give a bonus. Change them or get rid of it.

The roads don't actually affect gameplay, right? If something is purely decorative, it shouldn't cover up elements that are important - like territory borders.

In a nutshell, it seems that you have taken some good elements of other maps - resources, conquest gameplay, barren lands that bleed armies - and put them together without enough thought about how they would play well together. You got a good basic idea here, but as you carry on you need to think about what you would do in playing a game on this map... if you stared in Lakri, would you ever take Un'it or Yelra? And if not, why are they there?

[bryguy]

the map does, indeed, look better... but hopefully you can bring it up to the "THIS MAP ROCKS" level. Since you're getting a lot of graphics suggestions already, I'll focus on play.

yay! finally someone does

The biggest problem right now is that the southern three landmasses seem to be cut off from the rest of the map.

But here's what really gets me: the way the territories will play. For example, let's take a look at the mud areas... they serve what purpose, exactly? If I am reading your legend right, they don't give any bonuses, they don't help you get anywhere, and after blowing a stack of armies trying to defeat the six neutrals you just lose them. And mud areas that would be useful territories - the creeks - aren't playable. I am going to guess that nobody will ever take a mud territory in 98% of games on this map, and those that do will kick themselves and never do it again. Change them or get rid of them.

Yea they are cut off a bit. Thats what the mud territories are for. The mud territories allow you to get from the coce area to the tyry area, and reverse, and from the lakri area to the tayers area.

I have much to say about your legend info:

The current famine causes all normal territories to have a negative bonus of 1; yet if you possess a resource you will not be affected by the famine in that resource's effect area.

For starters, this map would come together better for me if you somehow give some background that puts us in the mindset of the map... what "current famine?" Really paint the picture for us about what has happened to this Land of the Eight Kings, or whatever you want to call it.

A bonus is positive. It's something you get. I know we talk about negative bonuses here in the foundry, but on an actual map you'll need to find a better way to phrase this. Maybe call it a "penalty."

The resource area mini-map is a nice start in helping this map make sense, but you should probably label that map "Resource Effect Areas" since that is what you call them in the legend. And the borders between the Resource Effect Areas probably need to somehow stand out better on the main map - there are other black lines darker than the lines between the Areas, such as the shadows.

Okay Ill try to come up with like a story line or something

Penalty will probably work a ton better than negative bonus

okay sure, ill label it And ill try to think of what to do to fix that

The same goes for many other territories on this map: Nav, for example. It doesn't help you get anywhere, it doesn't give you a bonus, and you can't stack armies up there for an offensive because they bleed off. Same with Napt, Nara, Aran, Jako, Opesto, Camt, Caest, Teh, and any other territory that isn't the shortest route between two territories that give a bonus. Change them or get rid of it.

The roads don't actually affect gameplay, right? If something is purely decorative, it shouldn't cover up elements that are important - like territory borders.

okay ill try to think of something to do with them. For like Napt, I could rotate the bridge up there so you go from coce to napt, that way its not so easy for coce to get to ryos, or reverse. Also, some of the territories I could maybe have fewer armies on? more neutral armies on the more direct path to things (resources, villages, etc) and less (by a couple) on the ones that arent so much of a direct route? ill have to do somethinking

and ok, ill put the borders layer above the roads

In a nutshell, it seems that you have taken some good elements of other maps - resources, conquest gameplay, barren lands that bleed armies - and put them together without enough thought about how they would play well together. You got a good basic idea here, but as you carry on you need to think about what you would do in playing a game on this map... if you stared in Lakri, would you ever take Un'it or Yelra? And if not, why are they there?

Thanks for the comments oak Ill see what I can do now

[Kaplowitz]

Click image to enlarge.

(brought to new page)

I would say what looks better...but its everything!

Of course there are things that need changing (imo):
-The legend is boring...and just...there. Make it blend more into the map.
-The trees are too blurry.
-The land looks like its floating above the mud, and the mud above the water. It doesnt blend well at all. Plus in that delta thing you have going by the title, the bevel looks REALLY out of place. Maybe make it an outer bevel going down?
-The text is hard to read and imo out of place.
-The castles look very flat.
-Elifan castle looks really strange.
-The borders are blurry in some spots, but pixely in other spots. I suggest just completely redoing them, making them thinner, and lowering the opacity of them.
-the oasis doesnt blend too well, it seems to be on a hill. Again, maybe switch to downward outer bevel.
-I dont like the title, i think you should pick one or the other (Famine, or Eight King's Crisis)

Lookin' better!

[oaktown]

Yea they are cut off a bit. Thats what the mud territories are for. The mud territories allow you to get from the coce area to the tyry area, and reverse, and from the lakri area to the tayers area.

I don't get it - coce and tyry are completely cut off from each other by water, with no crossings. Can armies in the mud territories jump across water? How? To where?

[bryguy]

Yea they are cut off a bit. Thats what the mud territories are for. The mud territories allow you to get from the coce area to the tyry area, and reverse, and from the lakri area to the tayers area.

I don't get it - coce and tyry are completely cut off from each other by water, with no crossings. Can armies in the mud territories jump across water? How? To where?

Anybody have any good ideas of how to explain in the legend that M4 and M5 can attack each other, and that M10 M15 and M14 can attack each other, and that M11 M10 and M14 can attack each other?

Im planning on adding stranded boats accross the water to connect these territories. Thats how you get across

[Androidz]

Since Oak and a few other has mentioned the most problems.

I would like to say one thing, the map looks great but the terretorie names really dissapear behind the blackmontion. sure i could use 2-3 min to try to see what terretorie im attacking from but there is those with far worse eyesight than me:)

[bryguy]

Since Oak and a few other has mentioned the most problems.

I would like to say one thing, the map looks great but the terretorie names really dissapear behind the blackmontion. sure i could use 2-3 min to try to see what terretorie im attacking from but there is those with far worse eyesight than me:)

okay sure Ill try and fix that


and I know that their are people with worse eyesight than you considering my dad cant even hardly see the territory names there....

[Androidz]

Since Oak and a few other has mentioned the most problems.

I would like to say one thing, the map looks great but the terretorie names really dissapear behind the blackmontion. sure i could use 2-3 min to try to see what terretorie im attacking from but there is those with far worse eyesight than me:)

okay sure Ill try and fix that


and I know that their are people with worse eyesight than you considering my dad cant even hardly see the territory names there....

[InkL0sed]

For the blend between the land and mud, try putting a lot of layers in between. Kinda like what Rj did in this thread.

[MrBenn]

I'll echo the comments about not being able to read half the territory names.

There is a really big differenc in colour balance between the top and the bottom which might need adjusting too.

Have you tried a small version at all, to see if you're going to fit everything in?

[Androidz]

Hmm 2 more things bryguy which ive belive i mentioned before.

Gameplay:

Ryos Castle need to be swaped with Jako.

Cause as it is now its to close for Cocecastle. And to far away from Elifan castle which i belive will have a far better adventage just cause there is no castles even close. Thats why i belive jako would be a good place.


Tayers castle can easyly be attack verry fast from M15. In this in a matter of few turns. I belive moveing the castle to crass would be far better.

Graphics:

The road in Wria, Opre and Anara seem a bit odd. Connect the road to Keyl and Tifi.

The Oasis, terretorie dont fitt in right now. Try fixing that a bit.



Other than this the map looks good if you look over what the other commenters said aswell:)

[bryguy]

I'll echo the comments about not being able to read half the territory names.

There is a really big differenc in colour balance between the top and the bottom which might need adjusting too.

Have you tried a small version at all, to see if you're going to fit everything in?

I had tried before the graphix update and everything had fit, but idk about it now after modifying the graphix. Guess Ill do that tho

Hmm 2 more things bryguy which ive belive i mentioned before.

Gameplay:

Ryos Castle need to be swaped with Jako.

Cause as it is now its to close for Cocecastle. And to far away from Elifan castle which i belive will have a far better adventage just cause there is no castles even close. Thats why i belive jako would be a good place.


Tayers castle can easyly be attack verry fast from M15. In this in a matter of few turns. I belive moveing the castle to crass would be far better.

Graphics:

The road in Wria, Opre and Anara seem a bit odd. Connect the road to Keyl and Tifi.

The Oasis, terretorie dont fitt in right now. Try fixing that a bit.



Other than this the map looks good if you look over what the other commenters said aswell:)

ok thanks androidz ill see about moving tayers and ryos, and modifying that road, as well as the oasis

For the blend between the land and mud, try putting a lot of layers in between. Kinda like what Rj did in this thread.

okay sure ill try that

[bryguy]

Okay Ive been messing around, hacking away at a list of things to get done, but ive just made a teeny tiny dent in the list


oh well, Im gonna be AWOL from tomorrow to the 21st/22nd/23rd on vacation, but ill resume work when i get back

[rom_tobins]

Well i don't know if this has been mentioned yet. but i can't help notice the 3 bottom castles will be fighting over 1 village, well the 5 other castles have 4 villages between all them. And due to the mud an its negitive bonus it makes it likely that it will be awhile before the bottom of the map or the top of the map will try crossing it to conquer more area. Just seems highly unfair if your playing 8 players and 5 of them fight over 4 villages...so only 1 will be outta luck, well the other 3 players are fighting over just 1 village.

kift will likely always get tray village by the looks of it too...as everyone else would have 2 go by another village before getting to it.

[The Neon Peon]

Graphics priorities: Water, legend

Looks like a good map, keep it up.

[bryguy]

Well i don't know if this has been mentioned yet. but i can't help notice the 3 bottom castles will be fighting over 1 village, well the 5 other castles have 4 villages between all them. And due to the mud an its negitive bonus it makes it likely that it will be awhile before the bottom of the map or the top of the map will try crossing it to conquer more area. Just seems highly unfair if your playing 8 players and 5 of them fight over 4 villages...so only 1 will be outta luck, well the other 3 players are fighting over just 1 village.

kift will likely always get tray village by the looks of it too...as everyone else would have 2 go by another village before getting to it.

only way i can think of for fixing that is completely redoing the shapes of the landmasses, which was hard enough to do to create them in the first place

p.s. yea i realized that before

p.p.s. I may try just experimentally creating new landmasses and such just to see if that would also fix the land-mud connection

Graphics priorities: Water, legend

Looks like a good map, keep it up.

okay sure, no matter what Ill fix those

[Androidz]

Well i don't know if this has been mentioned yet. but i can't help notice the 3 bottom castles will be fighting over 1 village, well the 5 other castles have 4 villages between all them. And due to the mud an its negitive bonus it makes it likely that it will be awhile before the bottom of the map or the top of the map will try crossing it to conquer more area. Just seems highly unfair if your playing 8 players and 5 of them fight over 4 villages...so only 1 will be outta luck, well the other 3 players are fighting over just 1 village.

kift will likely always get tray village by the looks of it too...as everyone else would have 2 go by another village before getting to it.

only way i can think of for fixing that is completely redoing the shapes of the landmasses, which was hard enough to do to create them in the first place

p.s. yea i realized that before

p.p.s. I may try just experimentally creating new landmasses and such just to see if that would also fix the land-mud connection

As i don't want you to mess up the the landscape which i love try this first:

Renx village move to Fails.

Then add a village to linf since i don't see why any1 would go there without a village being there.