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HONEYCOMBS [Abondoned]

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Postby weirdbro on Sat May 26, 2007 3:58 pm

Thank you for your kindness upon this ignorant soul. Here's a small gift for you:

http://www.angermgmt.com

From how rude you were to mibi, I felt that the adjective was warranted.

Maps only go to the next level in the process when people in the foundry think it should. You need to accept that, and try to work with their suggestions instead of repeating the same "logical" rebuttals over and over again. Just because you have a reason for doing something doesn't make it a good reason, and just giving that reason doesn't mean you can ignore that problem and move to the next step.
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Postby KLOBBER on Sat May 26, 2007 4:09 pm

weirdbro wrote:
Thank you for your kindness upon this ignorant soul. Here's a small gift for you:

http://www.angermgmt.com

From how rude you were to mibi....

Oh, sorry for the mixup -- that wasn't an example of rudeness. It was a serious suggestion for his own well-being. Being under the contol of anger can be very detrimental to one's health.

For real rudeness, please refer to the other posts in this thread.

Thank you very much,

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Postby hulmey on Sat May 26, 2007 4:14 pm

Geez where did they find this guy :?
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Postby beav77 on Sat May 26, 2007 4:15 pm

i think that helmet is cutting circulation off to his brain :)
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Postby weirdbro on Sat May 26, 2007 4:15 pm

From how rude you were to mibi....

Yes, but say that other people have problems and need mental help while only knowing them to be angry from a post that had good reason to be angry at you is rude, a great example of namecalling, and really not helpful for yourself, because if no one wants to help with your map, it won't get anywhere.

I really do think it could be a good map. Just be more creative than a symmetrical map. Give it a unique shape, put a Queen Bee, add worker bees, and other parts of a hive.
You say that other symmetrical maps have been made as your reason for why this should be allowed. However, people have learned from those mistakes, and don't want to help with a map that they know will fail, from past experience, due to flaw that symmetrical maps have really bad strategy, and lead to bad games.
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Postby KLOBBER on Sat May 26, 2007 4:20 pm

"Maps only go to the next level in the process when people in the foundry think it should...."

Whoah! Slow down! That's not the step I was referring to. I'm still waiting for any new suggestions to be added to the old 4, which I have taken into consideration and and to which I have posted 4 logical rebuttals.

The step you refer to above comes a couple of steps after I wait to receive any and all suggestions, and it has only been about 24 hours. I don't think that's a fair amount of time to expect people to come up with suggestions other than the present 4, do you? I mean, shouldn't I give it some more time? If you think about this, I'm sure that you'll agree.

You shouldn't try to get ahead of the game like that; I'm required to listen to any and all suggestions way before that step comes up, and in accordance with the guidelines, that's what I'm waiting for now.

If any additional ones come up in the near future, then I'll take them into my heart as I have the other 4 suggestions. I have time to wait.

Thank you very much,

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Postby hulmey on Sat May 26, 2007 4:23 pm

i got a suggestion put your map in a bin and jump on in after it :D
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Postby nagerous on Sat May 26, 2007 4:30 pm

reckon someone made up this guy as a joke, or does he really exist? :?
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Postby weirdbro on Sat May 26, 2007 4:36 pm

KLOBBER wrote:Whoah! Slow down! That's not the step I was referring to. I'm still waiting for any new suggestions to be added to the old 4, which I have taken into consideration and and to which I have posted 4 logical rebuttals.

First, I gave you suggestions and you ignored them.
Second, you are not just required to post logical rebuttals and leave it at that. People have to see the logic in them, and agree you have a point. Either convince a few people that you are right, or listen to people's suggestion. I recommend you choose the latter.
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Postby wcaclimbing on Sat May 26, 2007 5:11 pm

Change the honey (I think thats what it is) around the honeycombs.

right now it is really pixelated and doesnt look realistic. make it look more shiny, translucent, and overall realistic. for an example, pour some honey on a piece of paper and see what it looks like.
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Postby wcaclimbing on Sat May 26, 2007 5:15 pm

and please make the legend/key/instructions box thing bigger. the font is so small that i cant even read it. I cant tell what it says. It needs to be bigger.
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Postby The Random One on Sat May 26, 2007 5:42 pm

nagerous wrote:reckon someone made up this guy as a joke, or does he really exist? :?


Hah! I'd think that if forum accounts weren't linked to player accounts, and so one would endanger his/her player account when pulling this joke (unlike most games, where the player and poster's accounts are separate). Also, the map is not downright unplayable - it's just... more bad than good.

I wasn't going to post anything, since Mr. Klobber has been so stubborn, but since I haven't posted in the thread yet, I'll give him a vote of confidence and reply constructively. Since there's no suggestion to give that hasn't already been done, I'll refute to the refutals to his suggestions. Maybe that'll work. Who knows?

1. Map Size –

I was thinking about the size too, but I compared the size of the cells to the size of the circular shadow regions on the standard map, placing them right next to each other on the same computer screen, and by the application of sufficient intelligence, I can understand that they will fit perfectly. Feel free to check it using the same method, if you are equipped to do so, and when you’re finished, come back and tell me what you can understand from it, if anything.

In accordance with the Foundry’s guidelines, which state that the map should be no more than 350 pixels high so that players will not have to scroll down to play, I have limited it to 350. This map will avoid that scrolling annoyance.


While I can see, from the naked eye, that what you see is true, the army circles fit perfectly on the cells, I don't think that's good. The number would kind of disappear in the background if, say, the yellow player was in the yellow comb. This could be fixed by making the cell slightly larger than the army circle.

Regarding the height of the map, I agree that it should be kept near the minimum if at all possible, for I am a person with dial-up connection and a a broken mousewheel. However, as several other posters pointed out, it is possible to make the map larger by decreasing the size of the legend. You'll probably need to increase the overall picture size, but having it 400 pixels tall won't kill you.

2. Color Distinction –

This is an aspect of this map to which I have dedicated a great deal of valuable time, careful thought, and deep contemplation. There is a scaled-down guide to the left, in the exact shape of the playing board, in which the colors are extremely distinct, unique, and vibrantly contrasted to one another. This guide is one of the great features of this map not available on any others, and being an exact replica in shape, this will be an excellent guide to keep players well-informed of their options in regards to continents and bonuses.

The ten regions (combs) on the playing board, in and of themselves, are quite clear and easy to distinguish from one another. In addition to this, there is a unique and innovative continent guide just centimeters to the left of the playing board, and so even newcomers to the site will have no trouble at all playing this map in an efficient and well-organized manner – yes, even newcomers.

As if that were not enough, the shadow regions will cover the cells almost entirely, and when the cells of each comb are thus tinted a darker color, they will appear even yet more distinct from the cells of the other combs than they already do, which is saying a lot.


Very similar to the small guide in World 2.0, so you didn't really invent it.

Um, that's all I got. Sorry, he's right. The colors are similar, but thanks to the symmetrical nature of the combs and the guide it's possible to tell them apart. The only opposition I can make is: stupid people will also play your map, and stupid people are stupid. (Then again, that didn't stop Siege, which is a crazy fun map.)

3. Impenetrable Borders –

It was perhaps Gimil who repeated this suggestion the most colorfully when he ejaculated the following compellingly emotional, though inaccurate, appeal:

"the 1st thing the foundry asked you to do is add boundrys...." [sic]

I would like to point out that some maps on this site have impenetrable borders, and others do not. Actually, there is simply no such requirement. Also, I would like to point out that the Classic Map, which is the single most popularly played map on the site, does not include any impenetrable borders at all.


You are completely missing the point here. Impassable borders exist because some maps are based on real places, and if you just copy-and-pasted the political map of the place and turned then into territories the map would be unplayable. Impassable borders make it so you can have a continent be a location that, in real life, borders lots of other continents, but would be impossible to defend on the game, so you add some borders to cut its borders down to a manageable number, thus making it desirable to hold.

This, of course, doesn't apply to you, but what the problem with yor map is symmetry. Everything's the same, so games eventually become huge build-up wars that are completely symmetrical. If both I and my opponent are getting the same number of bonuses, (and we're playing No Cards so there's no need to attack), the best move is to hold back until you have so much armies you can attack easily and has no need to stay back. That's what we in the know call a Bad Game Design Situation. (Yeah, I'm not really in the know. But I totally sound like it, right? Plus, it's true.) Unpassable borders would solve that situation, by allowing you to change the number of borders of certain combs, thus making bonuses more flexible and making standing back and building up on armies less effective. You may argue that the central comb is the only one to give a greater bonus, but it's very possible to get to a game situation in which 3 players control each 3 combs, and even though the central one is contested it's a better move to stay back and build up than to charge and try to take control of it (since it'd be taken back immediately, and you'd risk losing lots of armies on a bad roll).

That said, I loathe unpassable borders, and I'd love it if you could pull out this map without adding them, but you still need to do something to remove the symmetry.

4. Legend Size –

Note: This is not a serious suggestion; it is actually rather silly, but I have included it in this short list only for the sake of thoroughness of my response.

The legend will not interfere with game play at its present size, nor would it interfere with game play if it were even larger. Also, the Foundry requires a legend to be part of the map.


Rather silly? The legend is very important, and not to be overlooked, young grasshopper. When your map is opened on an eager player's computer, you want him to be able to see everything that can happen in your map right away. If he can't read the legend, he can't know that. The legend is the only way to tell him of what your map can do - the site doesn't do any of it on its own.

Then again, I did say the legend should be made smaller on this very post. Yes, but the font could be made larger, and the legend could be more vertical (taller and less wide) to give more room to the map.



As you can see, I have carefully read your rebuttals and taken them all under serious consideration. I trust that you won't take this as a chance to write even more rebuttals, but rather as a sign that I, and the forum as a whole, aren't demeaning your map because we are assholes, but rather because we see flaws on it which you need to fix, not defend with your amazing empirical logic. Fail to yield, and your map will never be quenched - though, after this parade of "persistence" (the positive synonim for stubbornness), your chances have already dwindled, for most mapmakers are now ignoring you.

Good luck, and I hope I succeeded, against all odds, in getting to you.
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Postby KEYOGI on Sat May 26, 2007 5:56 pm

Hmm... I feel a lock coming on.

KLOBBER, I don't think I've seen any one person spam/troll in their own thread as much as you. If you are not willing to play an active role in your thread and continue to just post the same response over and over, I suggest you leave the foundry and never come back.
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Postby Wisse on Sat May 26, 2007 5:58 pm

KEYOGI wrote:Hmm... I feel a lock coming on.

KLOBBER, I don't think I've seen any one person spam/troll in their own thread as much as you. If you are not willing to play an active role in your thread and continue to just post the same response over and over, I suggest you leave the foundry and never come back.

i didn't consider it as spam
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Postby KEYOGI on Sat May 26, 2007 6:13 pm

What would you consider it Wisse?

Spam: the posting of advertisements, abusive, or unneeded messages on Internet forums.

Troll: someone who intentionally posts derogatory or otherwise inflammatory messages about sensitive topics in an established online community such as an online discussion forum to bait users into responding.

Forum Guidelines
Actual no-no's:
The Guidelines wrote:

Yes, even we have to have some of these because, in the heat of delayed asynchronous-communication, people sometimes lose their heads a bit. If you are caught losing your head (because you would never actually mean to do any of these things) we will first request that you cease and desist as the say in “the biz.” If you cannot find your head, or continue to mis-place it, we will be happy to put you on a forum time-out to give you time to go looking for it and if REALLY need be we will remove that which seems to disagree with you – i.e. The forum. Not that we like doing any of these things, of course.
And now the list don't do's:

Bigotry (e.g. racism, religion-bashing, aggressively homophobic language);
Betting or gambling on, through, or because of CC;
Pornography in posts, avatars or hyperlinks;
Trolling (including multiple postings, spam, abusive content, and specific attempts to cause chaos, disruption or headaches to the community members or staff)

That's pretty much it for the no-no's – small list, easy to remember...and don't test the team, we really do enforce this stuff.
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Postby ParadiceCity9 on Sat May 26, 2007 11:11 pm

i honestly just dont like this map...i dont like non-actual places maps (i.e. king of the mountains...senate (yes, i konw thats real but its not like..land)
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Postby MOBAJOBG on Sun May 27, 2007 12:22 am

I can't find any satisfaction to conquer a bee hive. 'Nuff said, already!
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Postby Captain Crash on Sun May 27, 2007 4:36 am

I like the idea, but I don't like:
Symmetry; Are not some cells in a hive unused? or Occupied with a growing bee? or simply dead and 'used up?
Colors; may I suggest more distinguishable colors instead of various hues of yellow, green and orange? Whats wrong with red and blue?
Size; It's not just army numbers that go in a cell but the cell name as well. Also your 350 pixels are taking up about 1/5 of my available space (Yes I have a fast connection and a large screen which is why I use large maps!) Also the font in the legend needs to be bigger, it is barely readable.

As I said the idea is sound but execution could use some more work.

Crash


8)
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Postby Kid_A on Sun May 27, 2007 5:54 am

ooooo i like this map
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Postby Wisse on Sun May 27, 2007 6:24 am

KEYOGI wrote:What would you consider it Wisse?

Spam: the posting of advertisements, abusive, or unneeded messages on Internet forums.

Troll: someone who intentionally posts derogatory or otherwise inflammatory messages about sensitive topics in an established online community such as an online discussion forum to bait users into responding.

Forum Guidelines
Actual no-no's:
The Guidelines wrote:

Yes, even we have to have some of these because, in the heat of delayed asynchronous-communication, people sometimes lose their heads a bit. If you are caught losing your head (because you would never actually mean to do any of these things) we will first request that you cease and desist as the say in “the biz.” If you cannot find your head, or continue to mis-place it, we will be happy to put you on a forum time-out to give you time to go looking for it and if REALLY need be we will remove that which seems to disagree with you – i.e. The forum. Not that we like doing any of these things, of course.
And now the list don't do's:

Bigotry (e.g. racism, religion-bashing, aggressively homophobic language);
Betting or gambling on, through, or because of CC;
Pornography in posts, avatars or hyperlinks;
Trolling (including multiple postings, spam, abusive content, and specific attempts to cause chaos, disruption or headaches to the community members or staff)

That's pretty much it for the no-no's – small list, easy to remember...and don't test the team, we really do enforce this stuff.


ah so he gave you a headache :P
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Postby Spockers on Sun May 27, 2007 11:34 pm

Dear Klobber,

Thankyou for your verbose and somewhat repetitive comments.

You wrote:

KLOBBER wrote:Dear Posters,

3. Impenetrable Borders –
I would like to point out that the Classic Map, which is the single most popularly played map on the site, does not include any impenetrable borders at all.


I have studied this piece of text very carefully, mulling it over in my brain whilst studying it, and it's history and significance, dissecting it into small manageable pieces giving each the attention it deserves whilst constructing, what i like to consider, a rebuttal of fine proportions. My rebuttal is as follows:

The classic map does have impenetrable borders. They are called oceans.


Thank you very much,


Spockers.
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Postby Coleman on Mon May 28, 2007 12:14 am

I will not bore you with a quote of everything that was said directly above me but...

=D> =D> =D>

Bravo. Even creepy uncle randy is impressed =P~

Too bad that whole post is too big for my signature.

The point is, the community doesn't like the big wide open thing you got going. It just isn't a popular set up. Your only real options are to disown what you were trying to make and become the foundry's b*tch or fight like hell to keep things how you'd planned. Both routes lead to an ugly conclusion.
Warning: You may be reading a really old topic.
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Postby hulmey on Mon May 28, 2007 11:53 am

lol Coleman...........Anyway i think KLOBBER got spooked by the foundry and has fled to landsgrab.net
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Postby The Random One on Tue May 29, 2007 6:11 am

I can imagine him stepping heavily away, "Heretic fools! They know not genius even when it's dropped in front of their very eyes!"
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Postby Skittles! on Tue May 29, 2007 6:21 am

The Random One wrote:I can imagine him stepping heavily away, "Heretic fools! They know not genius even when it's dropped in front of their very eyes!"

Maybe he pissed himself from crying too much cause he was a failure.
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