Famine V.19.3 pg1+35 [I] [Reworking]

[bryguy]

Well i don't know if this has been mentioned yet. but i can't help notice the 3 bottom castles will be fighting over 1 village, well the 5 other castles have 4 villages between all them. And due to the mud an its negitive bonus it makes it likely that it will be awhile before the bottom of the map or the top of the map will try crossing it to conquer more area. Just seems highly unfair if your playing 8 players and 5 of them fight over 4 villages...so only 1 will be outta luck, well the other 3 players are fighting over just 1 village.

kift will likely always get tray village by the looks of it too...as everyone else would have 2 go by another village before getting to it.

only way i can think of for fixing that is completely redoing the shapes of the landmasses, which was hard enough to do to create them in the first place

p.s. yea i realized that before

p.p.s. I may try just experimentally creating new landmasses and such just to see if that would also fix the land-mud connection

As i don't want you to mess up the the landscape which i love try this first:

Renx village move to Fails.

Then add a village to linf since i don't see why any1 would go there without a village being there.

yea i wouldnt want to ruin the landscape either, considering i tried making a new landscape (on a new file of course ) and it looked absolutely crappy.

so yea I'll try doing that, thanks androidz

btw: amazingly, just about the time i read your post, i was wondering if i should add a village at linf


oh and so far I have been able to:


Make the water more blue (never realized how green it was until i did!)
Fixed some holes in the water (idk if they had been there before or not, if not, the oops, dont know when i put them there )
Changed the title to Famine and moved it to the legend
Added the words Resource's Effect Area in the legend and modified some of the legend text
Set the borders to overlay
Added a VERY slight texture to the desert

no luck so far with the castles or mud/land connection, both of which i spent hours trying to fix. Thats why its taking me so long to do this. Currently Im messing around with the stranded boats connections, and then Im gonna work on the legend.

p.s. Reason I cant get the castles to look like the villages (yet) is because whenever I do the same thing to them as the villages, the walls end up crappy, since the walls are so thin. I have a couple of things left to try, unless i forget them

[Androidz]

Well i don't know if this has been mentioned yet. but i can't help notice the 3 bottom castles will be fighting over 1 village, well the 5 other castles have 4 villages between all them. And due to the mud an its negitive bonus it makes it likely that it will be awhile before the bottom of the map or the top of the map will try crossing it to conquer more area. Just seems highly unfair if your playing 8 players and 5 of them fight over 4 villages...so only 1 will be outta luck, well the other 3 players are fighting over just 1 village.

kift will likely always get tray village by the looks of it too...as everyone else would have 2 go by another village before getting to it.

only way i can think of for fixing that is completely redoing the shapes of the landmasses, which was hard enough to do to create them in the first place

p.s. yea i realized that before

p.p.s. I may try just experimentally creating new landmasses and such just to see if that would also fix the land-mud connection

As i don't want you to mess up the the landscape which i love try this first:

Renx village move to Fails.

Then add a village to linf since i don't see why any1 would go there without a village being there.

yea i wouldnt want to ruin the landscape either, considering i tried making a new landscape (on a new file of course ) and it looked absolutely crappy.

so yea I'll try doing that, thanks androidz

btw: amazingly, just about the time i read your post, i was wondering if i should add a village at linf


oh and so far I have been able to:


Make the water more blue (never realized how green it was until i did!)
Fixed some holes in the water (idk if they had been there before or not, if not, the oops, dont know when i put them there )
Changed the title to Famine and moved it to the legend
Added the words Resource's Effect Area in the legend and modified some of the legend text
Set the borders to overlay
Added a VERY slight texture to the desert

no luck so far with the castles or mud/land connection, both of which i spent hours trying to fix. Thats why its taking me so long to do this. Currently Im messing around with the stranded boats connections, and then Im gonna work on the legend.

p.s. Reason I cant get the castles to look like the villages (yet) is because whenever I do the same thing to them as the villages, the walls end up crappy, since the walls are so thin. I have a couple of things left to try, unless i forget them

Your to do list is quite long:P So its good you've started with something=)
Np=) Amazing indeed:P.
That would, be the death of this map if it turned out to be crappy=D
Great work=)

[djak.]

To show that m4/m5 and m10/m11/m14 can attack each other, you can make the river a bit wider and add stepping stones between them.

Better may be to not have the mud, because whoever lucks out by starting in the south west (with Linf as a village) has a much better chance of winning the game.

You can also get better balance by bridging Corn and Ila, otherwise the person lucking out by starting on Corn island can too easily win the game just because of where they started.

[BBoz]

To show that m4/m5 and m10/m11/m14 can attack each other, you can make the river a bit wider and add stepping stones between them.

Stepping stones is a really good idea.

[bryguy]

To show that m4/m5 and m10/m11/m14 can attack each other, you can make the river a bit wider and add stepping stones between them.

Stepping stones is a really good idea.

with the scale of the map though they would seem just like little tiny specks


oh well, if boats dont work, I guess I could try dotted lines (or stepping stones)

[fireedud]

You can just connect the mud, I'm pretty sure water can flow through mud.

[bryguy]

You can just connect the mud, I'm pretty sure water can flow through mud.

huh... you mean have the water basically end and the mud territories connect where it does?

[Kaplowitz]

Click image to enlarge.

(brought to new page)

I would say what looks better...but its everything!

Of course there are things that need changing (imo):
-The legend is boring...and just...there. Make it blend more into the map.
-The trees are too blurry.
-The land looks like its floating above the mud, and the mud above the water. It doesnt blend well at all. Plus in that delta thing you have going by the title, the bevel looks REALLY out of place. Maybe make it an outer bevel going down?
-The text is hard to read and imo out of place.
-The castles look very flat.
-Elifan castle looks really strange.
-The borders are blurry in some spots, but pixely in other spots. I suggest just completely redoing them, making them thinner, and lowering the opacity of them.
-the oasis doesnt blend too well, it seems to be on a hill. Again, maybe switch to downward outer bevel.
-I dont like the title, i think you should pick one or the other (Famine, or Eight King's Crisis)

Lookin' better!

[bryguy]

Click image to enlarge.

(brought to new page)

I would say what looks better...but its everything!

Of course there are things that need changing (imo):
-The legend is boring...and just...there. Make it blend more into the map. ✓
-The trees are too blurry. ✓
-The land looks like its floating above the mud, and the mud above the water. It doesnt blend well at all. Plus in that delta thing you have going by the title, the bevel looks REALLY out of place. Maybe make it an outer bevel going down? ?
-The text is hard to read and imo out of place. ?
-The castles look very flat. ✓
-Elifan castle looks really strange. ?
-The borders are blurry in some spots, but pixely in other spots. I suggest just completely redoing them, making them thinner, and lowering the opacity of them. ?
-the oasis doesnt blend too well, it seems to be on a hill. Again, maybe switch to downward outer bevel. ?
-I dont like the title, i think you should pick one or the other (Famine, or Eight King's Crisis) ✓

Lookin' better!

hey thanks kap! ive been looking for that post but i couldnt find it at alll


the green ✓'s are things that i have done or are fixing currently. Orange ?'s are things that Im thinking of doing, and red ?'s are things that I cant figure out how the heck to do, and red ✓'s are things that I am going to do but havent gotten done yet (or that Im gonna fix but havent yet)

[Kaplowitz]

about the text, i mean that it is hard to read, but on top of that, it looks out of place with the map. You should pick a more appropriate one.

Check out this website: http://www.fantasyfonts.com/ even that first one () could work pretty well IMO.

[bryguy]

about the text, i mean that it is hard to read, but on top of that, it looks out of place with the map. You should pick a more appropriate one.

Check out this website: http://www.fantasyfonts.com/ even that first one () could work pretty well IMO.

oooh I like the booter font....


thanks kap Ill try it on the map


p.s. and maybe another type of fantasy font for the words in the legend

[fireedud]

You can just connect the mud, I'm pretty sure water can flow through mud.

huh... you mean have the water basically end and the mud territories connect where it does?

yea

[bryguy]

You can just connect the mud, I'm pretty sure water can flow through mud.

huh... you mean have the water basically end and the mud territories connect where it does?

yea

that may work best


considering stepping stones would be super hard to do, and I cant figure out how the heck to make a stranded boat, so Ill try that

[yeti_c]

I have to say your decication to purpose on this map is admirable.

Keep on plowing Bryguy.

C.

[RjBeals]

Click image to enlarge.

bry - too many pages for me to sort though - so sorry if some of these have been addressed..

I'm not a fan of the black borders. since this is desert, why not try a shade of brown?

You've got good lighting on the general map itself - however the huge black mountain needs some work. For a map like this, I would try keeping 1 general light source (the sun) and keep shadows falling all the same way. Shadows on the land look like they fall south west (sort of) so I would suggest a hard shadow on the mountain on that side, with a brighter spot on the other side. I would also really draw back some of that brownish blackish shadow from around the bottom of the mountain.

You're font is fine. Nice and clear. But is has no pizazz. Maybe search for a different font, that is still legible, but ties in with the desert theme. Some of your areas names look bold also (Yarb), while others look thin (To'me). I don't think thats intentional.

The sandy beach areas look good.

I think the water is too bright. It's almost glowing on my monitor. Like pool water. Have you tried a darker blue? with more ripples in it maybe.

I also don't care for the brown glow around the plain black title. The grungy text looks good.

So - keep on keeping on. You've come this far - don't stop now. My Italy map took almost 1 year exactly to quench.

[ZeakCytho]

The transition between mud and regular land really needs work. The land looks like it's plopped on top of the mud right now, rather than having them be two parts of the same whole. You need a gentler and more subtle transition.

The water should look muddier, I think. Darken it up, like RJ said, but try decreasing the opacity so some of the mud color shows though.

The bridges also really need work - maybe just ditch them in the first place, if you can't make better looking ones, and only have connections via mud/shallow water.

I agree with what RJ said about the mountain. Also, the white thing on it - is that supposed to be snow? It kind of looks like a cloud. Not sure how you can effectively show snow from that angle, so maybe just have a rocky peak.

Overall, I'm still underwhelmed by the graphics on this. It feels like a lot of different styles thrown together.

Has there been any significant discussion of how the gameplay will work?

[bryguy]

Before I say anything, bear with me for this post, as I am extremely tired and have just watched the most booooooring thing ever (presidential debates ), so my brains being a bit sluggish (im amazed i found the post button)

I have to say your decication to purpose on this map is admirable.

Keep on plowing Bryguy.

C.

Thanks yeti

bry - too many pages for me to sort though - so sorry if some of these have been addressed..

I dont mind, even if it has been addressed, its possible that I have forgotten it before...

I'm not a fan of the black borders. since this is desert, why not try a shade of brown?

sure (although I prefer called it "barren land" rather than "dessert" ), Ill try that, since Im messing around with the borders already (trying different layer modes first (overlay, color, value, soft light, hard light, the works ) to see what looks best) so I might as well try seeing what they look like brown

You've got good lighting on the general map itself - however the huge black mountain needs some work. For a map like this, I would try keeping 1 general light source (the sun) and keep shadows falling all the same way. Shadows on the land look like they fall south west (sort of) so I would suggest a hard shadow on the mountain on that side, with a brighter spot on the other side. I would also really draw back some of that brownish blackish shadow from around the bottom of the mountain.

Yea thats what I have been trying to do, have them fall south west, yet for some reason the mountain wouldnt fall south west, just south

I can try doing it again, it was fairly simple to do the first time

Oh, and the bolded part is something I dont understand what your saying exactly...

only thing is that i have to figure out which layers i used to make it in the first place, I have like 5-50 layers that are backups just in case i need them or files that im keeping around just in case i need them

You're font is fine. Nice and clear. But is has no pizazz. Maybe search for a different font, that is still legible, but ties in with the desert theme. Some of your areas names look bold also (Yarb), while others look thin (To'me). I don't think thats intentional.

no it wasnt. I just hadnt really bothered to mess with them for a while, so after a little bit they ended up suddenly looking all different. Im currently trying the Booter font that kap found to redo the names (thanks kap! so far its lookin' great!)

The sandy beach areas look good.

uh.... not sure where your talkin' about, but thanks!

I think the water is too bright. It's almost glowing on my monitor. Like pool water. Have you tried a darker blue? with more ripples in it maybe.

I think this has been mentioned before, but idk. Recently I tried making it more blue, so that helped a bit, but yea ill add more ripples and make it more see through, because as you said, its to bright, and in my opinion it doesnt really fit being so bright.

I also don't care for the brown glow around the plain black title. The grungy text looks good.

Yea after a couple of days I decided I hated the glow. Ill move the title over to the legend area as well as getting rid of the glow, and Ill decide on Famine or Eight Kings Crisis (probably famine, it fits better)

So - keep on keeping on. You've come this far - don't stop now. My Italy map took almost 1 year exactly to quench.

Thanks

This is the only project that Ive ever started that I have really stuck to. Its become a hobby for me to be working on this

The transition between mud and regular land really needs work. The land looks like it's plopped on top of the mud right now, rather than having them be two parts of the same whole. You need a gentler and more subtle transition.

yea thats the one thing that needs a lot of work in my opinion. Ive tried alot of things, even redoing the mud, just onto the land instead of onto a new layer, but no mater what it always ends up weird So that took that way out of the question. Ive tried blurring, gaussian blurring, both, lots of both to make it a soft transition to solid, and countless other things, but i just had an idea on how i might do it, so ill try that

But that doesnt mean that any suggestions (highly detailed steps included would be nice ) will still be taken into account until I can get it nice

The water should look muddier, I think. Darken it up, like RJ said, but try decreasing the opacity so some of the mud color shows though.

Easy enought to do

The bridges also really need work - maybe just ditch them in the first place, if you can't make better looking ones, and only have connections via mud/shallow water.

I dont like the idea of ditching them, since they connect over some thick water in places, and connect areas in the lower left corner. I will still work on them tho, but any help would be accepted gratefully

I agree with what RJ said about the mountain. Also, the white thing on it - is that supposed to be snow? It kind of looks like a cloud. Not sure how you can effectively show snow from that angle, so maybe just have a rocky peak.

yea its supposed to be snow, but i think i might of accidentally slipped with the brush at one point, cause on part of it got more snow on it than the other parts, making it look like a cloud (which I completely agree with you on that!)

Ill try fixing it, if now, Ill see about getting rid of it

Overall, I'm still underwhelmed by the graphics on this. It feels like a lot of different styles thrown together.

Has there been any significant discussion of how the gameplay will work?

Yea you could probably say that it kinda is, as I am always trying to learn what I can for map making, so I have learned about 1-10 different styles (alot from different places on the web), and mine is always evolving.

I dont really know what you mean by this last sentence



Thank you for all the comments everybody!

[jiminski]

I agree that this is not the final product .. of course not!
There is a slightl disparateness (made up of many different styles) on close examination of the graphics. just a couple of things:
-The irrigation pipeline/bridge from Poq to Yarb is alien in feel.
-The Oasis also needs work .. perhaps a palm tree may help.

But the overall depth and tone of the Map I find very captivating. The way you have created the retreating river, leaving carved, baked gullies is very convincing. As already said you may need a more gradual depiction of various sun-baked soil colour.

I enjoy the use of light in the North ... though perhaps the balance of light should be the opposite?
i.e. cloud/shade in one tiny area (where the sun is now) and the rest under searing heat and sunlight. .. or is the map expecting rain soon?

Your Tray Village area works very nicely i think too.

[bryguy]

I agree that this is not the final product .. of course not!
There is a slightl disparateness (made up of many different styles) on close examination of the graphics. just a couple of things:
-The irrigation pipeline/bridge from Poq to Yarb is alien in feel.
-The Oasis also needs work .. perhaps a palm tree may help.

For the oasis, i can try adding a palm tree

for the other... Im having trouble understanding what area you mean.. do you mean the bridge that goes over the water/mud from poq to yarb? if so, then I can try working on that bridge so that it doesnt have such and "alien" feel.

But the overall depth and tone of the Map I find very captivating. The way you have created the retreating river, leaving carved, baked gullies is very convincing. As already said you may need a more gradual depiction of various sun-baked soil colour.

I enjoy the use of light in the North ... though perhaps the balance of light should be the opposite?
i.e. cloud/shade in one tiny area (where the sun is now) and the rest under searing heat and sunlight. .. or is the map expecting rain soon?

I dont know if its expecting rain soon or not, havent checked in with the the weather channel there

but yea I can try adding some areas that are darker as if like under a cloud

(hehe, you didnt like my "cloud" over the mountain? )

Your Tray Village area works very nicely i think too.

Thanks that area has been the hardest to do so far for the map (well.... other than the mud, land, desert, water, villages, and castles )

Thanks for the comments Jiminski!

[zimmah]

omg, you really improved your map making skills, thumbs up for that. only a few pointers:

1) the water looks a bit 'fake' i don't know exactly way but try altering the color slightly, maybe a little darker or a bit more brownish, try to blend it a little more with the surrounding (water is both reflecting and 'clear' (seethrough) so it usually looks a different color in different area's, sea's can have all kind of blueish and greenish colors and rivers usually are darker and when they are very muddy they are very unclear and brownish, and not bright blue, so maybe you should try to make it a little more realistic looking by playing a bit with coloration.

2) also the dessert looks a bit strange to me, maybe a little more dust or something, dunno exactly. it looks pretty good but just not as perfect as the rest of your map.

3) bridges need some work too now i look at it, you might want to consider using 'wood' for the smaller bridges, only for the large bridges i'd recommend stone-like bridges, because it would be unrealistic to have a wooden bridge that big in the medieval area.

i really think you imrpoved a lot, but it can still be just a little bit better.

as for gameplay, i haven't looked at them right now.

[bryguy]

omg, you really improved your map making skills, thumbs up for that. only a few pointers:

1) the water looks a bit 'fake' i don't know exactly way but try altering the color slightly, maybe a little darker or a bit more brownish, try to blend it a little more with the surrounding (water is both reflecting and 'clear' (seethrough) so it usually looks a different color in different area's, sea's can have all kind of blueish and greenish colors and rivers usually are darker and when they are very muddy they are very unclear and brownish, and not bright blue, so maybe you should try to make it a little more realistic looking by playing a bit with coloration.

Thanks

sure, Ive made it darker now, but Ill add a little bit of a muddy color to it (maybe a layer thats the same color of mud just over the water set to like overlay or something with like 20% opacity? that should give it a semi muddy color (would just modify the opacity of the water layer, but I tried that and i had to change it to like 10% to notice a difference))

2) also the dessert looks a bit strange to me, maybe a little more dust or something, dunno exactly. it looks pretty good but just not as perfect as the rest of your map.

hmm.... well, I added texture to it now, so it may look better now. If not, then idk

3) bridges need some work too now i look at it, you might want to consider using 'wood' for the smaller bridges, only for the large bridges i'd recommend stone-like bridges, because it would be unrealistic to have a wooden bridge that big in the medieval area.

i really think you imrpoved a lot, but it can still be just a little bit better.

as for gameplay, i haven't looked at them right now.

yea Im trying to redo the big bridges, and Ill try making the little ones made of wood.

Thanks

ok

edit: expect V.19.2 or .5 later

[BBoz]

Hey Bry....

You may also want to start thinking about where the armies are going to be placed on the map. Some of the territories look like they may not accommodate the army numbers very well.

[bryguy]

Hey Bry....

You may also want to start thinking about where the armies are going to be placed on the map. Some of the territories look like they may not accommodate the army numbers very well.

wow, great minds think alike, i was gonna do that in just a minute

[bryguy]

V.19.3
V19.3[clicky]

Click image to enlarge.

Things You Need To Know

7 Continents
8 Starting Points
(I think) 105 Territories

Changes:

Water, made more blue and muddier
Mountain, made darker on bottom and lighter on top
Desert, added slight texture
Borders, set to overlay
Castles, tried to make like villages, let me know what you think
Added Linf Village
Modified the roads slightly in places, and added a road to Linf Village
Moved a castle
Modified snow on mountain slightly (hopefully its not as much as of a cloud anymore)
Moved some text
Changed text
Changed legend text
Moved title to legend
Changed title to "Famine" instead of "Eight Kings Crisis: Famine"
Added the words 'Resource Effect Area'
Changed wording from "yet if you possess a resource" to "yet if you hold a resource"
Probably more, but cant remember

Things left to do before V.20:

Fix the mud (if possible) so that it blends with the land
Fix the bridges
Change the legend
Possibly remove the Fely-Raf bridge
Possibly adjust the Coce-Iladi bridge so that its Coce-Napt
Make the water wither to nothing and add borders at M4/M5 and M10/M11,M15/M14
Maybe increase the glow behind M17 and M16 so that they arent so hard to read
Maybe move Renx Village to Falis or Frim
Alter a couple of territory lines by Ryos
Anything else you guys want done or that I have forgotten

Points of Discussion:

Does the water look better?
Do the castles look better?
Should I rotate the castles at all?
Is opacity okay for the borders?
Is the text good?
Anymore ideas for blending the mud and land? I tried whats been suggested, no luck. I have a handful of things left to try though
Anything else you want to discuss


PLEASE REMIND ME OF ANYTHING I HAVE FORGOTTEN (forgotten is if its not listed under things to do)


And would a mod plz remove the poll? It would be appreciated

edit: heres a picture with army numbers, positions are not permanent yet, just showing that the numbers fit

Click image to enlarge.

And expect a small version either later, tomorrow, or by V.20

[foregone]

Hey bryguy,

Throwing in my 2 cents to your map:

1. Not a fan of the new font. Doesn't seem to fit at all.

2. Castles look great to me (although Elifan doesn't look as good as the rest, IMO). Should the connection between the inner building and the walls not point to the road though? Specifically referring to Tayers and Lakri here.

3. Bridges also look good to me. Small note, the bridge at Coles doesn't seem to line up with the road...or the road with the bridge. Very minor though.

4. The water looks good, but the transitions between water and mud, then mud and land (as you know) could use a touch. Have you tried some good ol' random smudging. Smudging the colour up between the layers there might make the transition easier. Apologies if you're already given something like that a shot.

The detail on the map is fantastic.