CC Olympics

[Mad777]

http://www.conquerclub.com/player.php?mode=autotournament&tournament_id=5913

There is mistake of scoring in Tribal tournaments. It award medals according to Tribal score instead of individual score. Therefore two Tribes which had 3 players in came to top while I am third placed although my score in the tournament is 12/12. This error will repeat in all Tribal tournaments if not fixed.

I noticed it as well and submitted the question to admin, I also feel it's totally unfair.

[IcePack]

That’s how it was last year and isn’t an error? That’s why at the top it shows tribe v tribe v tribe for those few events it’s group score. That’s why for those ones it’s part of the planning process to put multiple tribe players in the same one

Changing the scoring after event had started is more “totally unfair” then someone not realizing the scoring

[josko.ri]

That’s how it was last year and isn’t an error? That’s why at the top it shows tribe v tribe v tribe for those few events it’s group score. That’s why for those ones it’s part of the planning process to put multiple tribe players in the same one

Changing the scoring after event had started is more “totally unfair” then someone not realizing the scoring

what you said is not true, last year Tribal events were scored according to individual performance, not Tribal performance.

and about your comment that "rules are changed afterwards", it is plainly not true, I asked in page 4 in this thread if ranking will be according to Tribe score or Individual score and I got answer individual score, check it here:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 5#p4963294

In Tribal tournament, who gets medals, winning player(s) or winning Tribe(s)?

Player....for his Tribe....as it would be for any team ranking.

[Dukasaur]

5913 has been manually rescored.

BW has made changes to the remaining Tribal tournaments which should do it automatically for the next one. He's not sure if it will work, however. So, I guess we just wait and see when the next one finishes.

[Mad777]

That’s how it was last year and isn’t an error? That’s why at the top it shows tribe v tribe v tribe for those few events it’s group score. That’s why for those ones it’s part of the planning process to put multiple tribe players in the same one

Changing the scoring after event had started is more “totally unfair” then someone not realizing the scoring

The fact it has "tribe vs tribe vs tribe...." was only to make specific selection to ensure it has at least one member from each tribe or more to sign, and not to "create" a ranking to be use for tournament item issuance, the fact there is a ranking showing the Tribes above the players is only because of that coding used to make per Tribe entry.

5913 has been manually rescored.

BW has made changes to the remaining Tribal tournaments which should do it automatically for the next one. He's not sure
if it will work, however. So, I guess we just wait and see when the next one finishes.

Just noticed that....I'm glad he was able to make the change before this were going too far.

[shocked439]

Woah I thought the tribal events were total trib score it is unfair to punish those of us that performed as a tribe in favor of those who performed well individually. Congrats Josko on your 12/12 but it was a tribe event and point based. It is unfair to change the rules after the event is over because the supreme cry baby roared out.

If you're changing the rules on this you should restart the whole tourney because it was bs that two of our tribe members were paired against each other in round 1 guaranteeing a 3/6 in round one.

[josko.ri]

Woah I thought the tribal events were total trib score it is unfair to punish those of us that performed as a tribe in favor of those who performed well individually. Congrats Josko on your 12/12 but it was a tribe event and point based. It is unfair to change the rules after the event is over because the supreme cry baby roared out.

If you're changing the rules on this you should restart the whole tourney because it was bs that two of our tribe members were paired against each other in round 1 guaranteeing a 3/6 in round one.

Rules were never changed, this post answered by Mad777 on August 18 clearly states that individual ranking will be relevant over Tribal ranking:

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 5#p4963294

In Tribal tournament, who gets medals, winning player(s) or winning Tribe(s)?

Player....for his Tribe....as it would be for any team ranking.

The post was made publicly in this thread so it is official, everyone could see it and know that individual ranking prevails.

Also if you read carefully among the lines, you would see that in main Olympic page it is written clearly "Winning Tribe" will get 15.000 Credits shared. However, in each tournament page it is not written "Winning Tribe" but is written "1", "2", "3", "4" indicating that it is individual rankings and not Tribal ranking because nowhere is mentioned word "Tribe" like it is mentioned in the main Olympic page.

As for the next year, I am also in favor that Tribal ranking prevails, BUT with 2 additions:
1. Make it like first 8 Tribes are in (first come, first served), and wait until players from these 8 Tribes assign second player, so that every Tribe has 2 participating players.
2. Make Tribal score as Total score divided by number of participating players from that Tribe.
I had suggested addition (1) for this year Olympics but the suggestion was unheard.

[IcePack]

A post is not a binding rule. Questions can be answered incorrectly.

[josko.ri]

A post is not a binding rule. Questions can be answered incorrectly.

There is another argument in favor of individual ranking rule, besides the post:
Also if you read carefully among the lines, you would see that in main Olympic page it is written clearly "Winning Tribe" will get 15.000 Credits shared. However, in each tournament page it is not written "Winning Tribe" but is written "1", "2", "3", "4" indicating that it is individual rankings and not Tribal ranking because nowhere is mentioned word "Tribe" like it is mentioned in the main Olympic page.

[IcePack]

A post is not a binding rule. Questions can be answered incorrectly.

There is another argument in favor of individual ranking rule, besides the post:
Also if you read carefully among the lines, you would see that in main Olympic page it is written clearly "Winning Tribe" will get 15.000 Credits shared. However, in each tournament page it is not written "Winning Tribe" but is written "1", "2", "3", "4" indicating that it is individual rankings and not Tribal ranking because nowhere is mentioned word "Tribe" like it is mentioned in the main Olympic page.

Winning tribe is regarding the overall event has nothing to do with individual events or the placement in individual events. Totally irrelevant.

The word tribe isn’t but it literally shows tribe a vs tribe b vs tribe C. And highlights tribe scores in the specific event at the top.

[josko.ri]

A post is not a binding rule. Questions can be answered incorrectly.

There is another argument in favor of individual ranking rule, besides the post:
Also if you read carefully among the lines, you would see that in main Olympic page it is written clearly "Winning Tribe" will get 15.000 Credits shared. However, in each tournament page it is not written "Winning Tribe" but is written "1", "2", "3", "4" indicating that it is individual rankings and not Tribal ranking because nowhere is mentioned word "Tribe" like it is mentioned in the main Olympic page.

Winning tribe is regarding the overall event has nothing to do with individual events or the placement in individual events. Totally irrelevant.

The word tribe isn’t but it literally shows tribe a vs tribe b vs tribe C. And highlights tribe scores in the specific event at the top.

It also highlights Players individual score. So nothing says anywhere that Tribe score will be used, so I dont know where did you took that "rule" from, also last year individual scores were counted. Contrary to that, the organizer says clearly in this thread that Players score will be relevant for placements.

[GoranZ]

http://www.conquerclub.com/player.php?mode=autotournament&tournament_id=5913

There is mistake of scoring in Tribal tournaments. It award medals according to Tribal score instead of individual score. Therefore two Tribes which had 3 players in came to top while I am third placed although my score in the tournament is 12/12. This error will repeat in all Tribal tournaments if not fixed.

If different number of players from different tribes are being used then ratio should be used, not sum. Ratio or best men can be only valid outcome.

[iAmCaffeine]

I disagree with josko because he is known for sad things like this, and I agree with Ice. I did spend a good few hours looking for a way to disagree with both of them but gave up on that idea.

Also @dkmaster, the tournament I'm talking about is not Glow in the Dark Archery (which was identical to last year) but a speed freestyle tournament which had all games in the round played at the same time.

[shocked439]

Why restrict this specific event within the olympics to tribes if personal performance will be valued over tribe performance.

Why does the event show as tribe a vs tribe b etc in the description of tribe performance doesn't matter and personal performance is all that matters

Why does the event show tribe score above personal scores if tribe score doesn't matter.

Sure a ratio should have been used but it was obvious by the design that wasn't the case and with no guarantee that inner tribes pairings wouldn't happen it wouldn't have been fair as well.

Josko's rules lawyering bullshit has got to be the worst part of this site and the number one reason the competitive scene is stale and unwelcoming to newer players.

[IcePack]

A post is not a binding rule. Questions can be answered incorrectly.

There is another argument in favor of individual ranking rule, besides the post:
Also if you read carefully among the lines, you would see that in main Olympic page it is written clearly "Winning Tribe" will get 15.000 Credits shared. However, in each tournament page it is not written "Winning Tribe" but is written "1", "2", "3", "4" indicating that it is individual rankings and not Tribal ranking because nowhere is mentioned word "Tribe" like it is mentioned in the main Olympic page.

Winning tribe is regarding the overall event has nothing to do with individual events or the placement in individual events. Totally irrelevant.

The word tribe isn’t but it literally shows tribe a vs tribe b vs tribe C. And highlights tribe scores in the specific event at the top.

It also highlights Players individual score. So nothing says anywhere that Tribe score will be used, so I dont know where did you took that "rule" from, also last year individual scores were counted. Contrary to that, the organizer says clearly in this thread that Players score will be relevant for placements.

Last year there was only ALLOWED one individual per tribe so of course “individual” scores were used.

[dkmaster]

and about your comment that "rules are changed afterwards", it is plainly not true, I asked in page 4 in this thread if ranking will be according to Tribe score or Individual score and I got answer individual score, check it here:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 5#p4963294

In Tribal tournament, who gets medals, winning player(s) or winning Tribe(s)?

Player....for his Tribe....as it would be for any team ranking.

I didnt notice when I saw this last answer the first time, but if you look at it more closely it says team ranking not individuel ranking.

In CL8 S&M were team ranked as winner and then all the players from S&M received a medal for his clans victory.

And here the answer says the same that medals are giving to each player of a tribe after team ranking of results

It is still not fair that some tribes has more players than others. As it is not fair that players from the same tribe can be placed up against each other. But we kinda knew that all along and hopefully next year that issue will be dealt with

[IcePack]

Yeah I agree. But it shouldn’t change the rules after the fact that multiple per tribes were added to the tournament and scoring changed after.
If some tribes placed multi knowing this and another only put one in and it cost them a medal, then that tribe should have had more participating. It’s not a reason to punish the others

[josko.ri]

There were absolutely nowhere written that Tribe ranking would count so why do you all take for granted that it was default settings, and then we changed something.

I can also argue that default settings were Individual rankings because in last year Olympics Tribal tournaments were individual because 1 player per Tribe participated and in this year Olympics nowhere it was announced that rules have changed so therefore rules should remain the same, Individual players take prizes.

So how can anyone say that default rules were changed afterwards, what were the default rules?

The only time this scoring was asked for clarification was my question which was clearly answered by official person that winning Player takes Prizes. So if this is the only time the rule was clarified, then this should be default rule, not someone's provisional interpretation of what should be default rule.

If the rule was different, I would also put effort to push more players from my Tribe to join Tribal tournaments so that we have more chances for Prizes, but it was clear answer that winning Player takes prizes.

Also, I am in no way privileged about rules decisions on this site. Last 2 times in a row when I asked for protection of rules for ronc deadbeating and ronc holding me hostage, my report was rejected, so I don't know where does shocked find evidence that I am protected specie on this site when it is plainly not true.

[Mad777]

All,

I'm not sure why all of the sudden things goes sideway in regards of that ranking, first look at the OP, there is nothing that said
"a Tribe Tournament will grant medal to all of his participants"
...this rule apply for the overall Tribe team win, which mean if FBRD Tribe remain ahead like they are and until the end of the event they will then receive 15,000 credits to share between all player from FBRD that were registered at the beginning of the event and also each player to receive a Tribal medal.

Some of you get stuck with that Tribe ranking visible in those Tribe selective Auto-Tournament and for some reason thinking it will be use to grant the item to the winning team and all it's participants (Gold, Silver, Bronze medals), I would be the first surprised since I never see this type of award yet with Auto Tournament (AT) event, also it was never said that those type of Tribe Tournament will have such a rule.

Again and for those who may not know well the AT tool, the ranking is appearing only because those type of tournament have been setup (coded) to allow each existing Tribe to register at least one of their member or more depends on size of that tournament, and not because we wanted to make a specific rule that give to the winning team the appropriate item that is layed in that tournament page.

I hope this is clearing up any possible disagreement with the way it suppose to work for this 2017 Olympics edition and that no one thinks rule(s) have been changes from a year to another, now I have to say I'm in favor on finding a way to make that type of rule available for the next edition and get all tournament setup that way to make it a "real" Tribe event like I wished to be, however and because the "Tribe 2.0" appeared close to the expected launch date of the 2017 Olympics we went ahead and did all the major mod we could to make it start "on time", but we admitted, with minimum annoucement, again because time was against us (remember we had Whac-a-Mod running still when Olympics was suppose to start initially) we couldn't do better than that, this event is run by admin and we had to argue to get it push to a later date and after Whac-a-Mod is a bit slowing down since all were busy and couldn't support any task involving with the Olympics event.

Since I brought the subject for next edition I also wish to have all tournament reviewed as far, amount of game, score reset, settings, and other stuff that to me didn't make sense the way some tournament were coded,
I can start with the one playing with Hive map having 2 rounds, 1st with 4 games and the 2nd with 1 game....no sense at all...but i'm sure we can had fresh blood into all ATs and make it better.

Let me know if the above is not making any sense at all...

[IcePack]

Some of you get stuck with that Tribe ranking visible in those Tribe selective Auto-Tournament and for some reason thinking it will be use to grant the item to the winning team and all it's participants (Gold, Silver, Bronze medals), I would be the first surprised since I never see this type of award yet with Auto Tournament (AT) event, also it was never said that those type of Tribe Tournament will have such a rule.

This isn't what I expected, I do not expect if FRBD is the leading Tribe to have all 3 earn golds etc
The way the tournament appears is #1 Tribe = x1 gold, #2 Tribe = x1 silver, #3 = x1 bronze etc

So if FRBD has the top 3 players, they still get the 1 gold.

What josko and you are saying is FRBD has top 3 players, they earn the gold, silver, and bronze.
Then it does impact how many can join the single tournament.

So how can anyone say that default rules were changed afterwards, what were the default rules?

Its easy, the tournament shows one thing and awarded one way and you complained and then it was "fixed" after to your benefit.
So clearly, there was a change in order to follow the interpretation you had from the way it was set up (aka default).

If the rule was different, I would also put effort to push more players from my Tribe to join Tribal tournaments so that we have more chances for Prizes, but it was clear answer that winning Player takes prizes.

Same for the other argument, had everyone understood it to be individual they might have changed what they did. Again, doesn't really have relevance. If you misunderstood something and didn't get the participation you needed, thats not anyone elses fault.

[Mad777]

Some of you get stuck with that Tribe ranking visible in those Tribe selective Auto-Tournament and for some reason thinking it will be use to grant the item to the winning team and all it's participants (Gold, Silver, Bronze medals), I would be the first surprised since I never see this type of award yet with Auto Tournament (AT) event, also it was never said that those type of Tribe Tournament will have such a rule.

This isn't what I expected, I do not expect if FRBD is the leading Tribe to have all 3 earn golds etc
The way the tournament appears is #1 Tribe = x1 gold, #2 Tribe = x1 silver, #3 = x1 bronze etc

So if FRBD has the top 3 players, they still get the 1 gold.

What josko and you are saying is FRBD has top 3 players, they earn the gold, silver, and bronze.
Then it does impact how many can join the single tournament.

My FRBD exemple was for the overall ranking, I understand now what you are saying, having those tournament rewarding the Tribe as a team and also the individual for the "individual ranking", is that correct?

From your above exemple, FRBD would receive a Gold, a Silver & a Bronze if their 3 players finished in the Top 3 and also receiving their own individual prize for the Individual ranking? Or only reward the Tribe with Gold, Silver & Bronze and no reward to count toward the individual?

[Dukasaur]

All I can see is that this is how it works in the real Olympics.

If runners from countries A, B, and C place 1st, 2nd and 3rd respectively, while runners from country D place 4th and 5th, they don't say, "well, country D had the best overall performance with, two runners in the Top 5, and therefore we give the gold to the runners from country D." No, each runner earns medals based on his individual performance, and only after collecting his medal is it added to his country's total.

[IcePack]

All I can see is that this is how it works in the real Olympics.

If runners from countries A, B, and C place 1st, 2nd and 3rd respectively, while runners from country D place 4th and 5th, they don't say, "well, country D had the best overall performance with, two runners in the Top 5, and therefore we give the gold to the runners from country D." No, each runner earns medals based on his individual performance, and only after collecting his medal is it added to his country's total.

And if the entirety of the event followed that premise, it would be able to be relied upon as a reliable source of information. However, no olympics allow multiple from the same team, all events would issue a gold, there would be no multiple bronzes, and no platniums etc.

Enough events have varied from the "standard" olympics that its not really a reliable go to method to settle any questions.

[josko.ri]

So how can anyone say that default rules were changed afterwards, what were the default rules?

Its easy, the tournament shows one thing and awarded one way and you complained and then it was "fixed" after to your benefit.
So clearly, there was a change in order to follow the interpretation you had from the way it was set up (aka default).

The tournament actually shows that "1", "2", "3" and "4" receive medals and this should mean Individual rankings because contrary to that in the main Olympics page is is written "Winning Tribe" earns each 15.000 Shared. So when it is written "Tribe" in awards like in main Olympics page then Tribe gets prizes but when it is written "1", "2", "3", "4" like it is in Tribal tournaments AND IN ALL OTHER INDIVIDUAL TOURNAMENTS then Individual ranking is relevant because it is the same prize label like in other individual non-Tribal tournaments.

So clearly, the above example shows that Individual ranking should be default, and you changed it by your wrong interpretation of the rules, even taking "right" to call your interpretation as default rules.

My complaint was to follow the default rules described above which were not followed in original medal distribution.

[LiveLoveTeach]

All I can see is that this is how it works in the real Olympics.

If runners from countries A, B, and C place 1st, 2nd and 3rd respectively, while runners from country D place 4th and 5th, they don't say, "well, country D had the best overall performance with, two runners in the Top 5, and therefore we give the gold to the runners from country D." No, each runner earns medals based on his individual performance, and only after collecting his medal is it added to his country's total.

And if the entirety of the event followed that premise, it would be able to be relied upon as a reliable source of information. However, no olympics allow multiple from the same team, all events would issue a gold, there would be no multiple bronzes, and no platniums etc.

Enough events have varied from the "standard" olympics that its not really a reliable go to method to settle any questions.

I've been silently watching this so far, but with some interest, since I am in a tournament that will be affected by all of this discussion. I would like to point out that I, like many others, thought that it was the total team score that would count at the end, more than just my individual score - and so did the other person in my tribe who is in that tournament with me. If that's not the case, then fine, we'll adjust - and good luck to all.

However, with what Duk and IP just said above - you're both wrong.

The real Olympics DOES have team sports, and DOES give awards based on team performance. Two examples would be gymnastics and fencing.

In gymnastics, each team has 3 gymnasts compete, and the top three teams receive medals... and every member on the team gets a medal (gold/silver/bronze) depending on how their team did. - http://www.nbcolympics.com/news/gymnast ... ion-format
In fencing, each team has 3 members, and they have 9 'bouts'... the goal is a multiple of 5 in each 'bout', because your team needs to have 45pts to win at the end of the 9th bout, otherwise, hope that you have more points than the other team! But again... everyone on the team gets a medal. http://www.nbcolympics.com/news/fencing-101-Scoring

There are also individual competitions and medals within the team competitions for those sports... but they do reward teamwork.