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Re: Game Statistics

Postby lackattack on Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:16 am

nippersean wrote:But don't despair! I've invented a new game to give you all that missing strategy back!

It's called - COUNTING! (trademark pending)

Here's how to play.........

One player is the referee. He or she puts a number of coloured beads in a bowl.

Each player in turn (with their back's to other players) counts the beads and writes down the number on a piece of paper.
Don't forget to put your name at the top!

Then, when all players have completed this, they get searched.
This is for missing beads / calculators and such. Any guilty ones get sent to the "Sinbin"

All the parties then count the beads TOGETHER (no cheating now.) When they agree on the all important "Bead Number"
The nearest one wins!!

The simple ideas are the most brilliant!

Have fun!


Great concept. You know, I can help you build a web version of "COUNTING!" for a 50% stake in the company.
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Re: Game Statistics

Postby khazalid on Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:24 am

lack, is there any reason why updates cannot be announced prior to them going live? just think, you could get feedback on a working idea before it is actually thrust into the spotlight. no malice intended. this one is so simple too, the stats should have gone below the map as per BoB.
had i been wise, i would have seen that her simplicity cost her a fortune
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Re: Game Statistics

Postby R.theghost on Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:57 pm

khazalid wrote:lack, is there any reason why updates cannot be announced prior to them going live? just think, you could get feedback on a working idea before it is actually thrust into the spotlight. no malice intended. this one is so simple too, the stats should have gone below the map as per BoB.


the first words of this announcement say "The addition of card counters back on 2007 was a big hit. Ever since then, the territory counters suggestion has been a hot topic." which means they HAVE been discussed
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Re: Game Statistics

Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:00 pm

Live feedback like this is most always what Lackattack prefers. But from time to time, he has always used screenshot options as well. Just depends I suppose!


--Andy
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Re: Game Statistics

Postby stahrgazer on Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:40 pm

As you're aware, Andy, I started a separate thread - not realizing this one was here - suggesting the stats layout be changed to show the most needed for most turns first; ie., expected deploys and number of cards, with either spoils first because so many people are used to looking at them first, or deploys first because that might be primary for that round's plan, while overal strength and number of regions really only comes into play to either calculate expected troops deploys - which you are already doing - or to determine if this opponent could be eliminated.

I also personally do not like the clock ticking/frequent stats update for 24 hour games; it interferes with game play. Like the problem I have with freestyle and speed games, it causes dice to stall, resulting in "more than random" double losses. I realize the problem I have is "insufficient RAM" so it's my computer interface that's stalling, not the website, and I'm expecting some RAM cards any day now, but I cannot be the only person playing on a computer that could use a power tweak, even if the difficulty I have is more noticeable so that I was able to explore the problem to identify it. (Side note: I highly suspect that the "insufficient RAM" stalling problem that can occur is why you get so many complaints about 'bad dice' in series.) Anyway, those who have a grand capability with their RAM are unlikely to notice a change in game playability with the new change, but those without just might. If possible, perhaps change 24 hour games so the feed isn't quite as up-to-the-second as for other games.... or don't, but maybe provide something in instructions or somewhere telling folks that if they're having a difficulty, they may need to shut down other programs while playing so more RAM is available for the game.

Obviously, for speedplay, the clock has always been a nice factor, and those whose systems could already handle speed settings also are unlikely to notice the change.

****
Those comments aside, I think the new features are a valuable addition to CC gameplay.
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Re: Game Statistics

Postby drunkmonkey on Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:50 pm

Maybe I'm behind on this, but how does "insufficient RAM" = "poor dice rolls"?
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Re: Game Statistics

Postby Seraphic on Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:12 pm

gooniekillah wrote:this is the worst update i have ever seen.
part of being a good player is taking the time to analyze your opponents territories adn stats for yourself and putting them in a chart for the unskilled or lazy player takes away a lot of strategy.
this is a horrible addition.
3 thumbs down


I 100% agree. There is a large difference between game enhancement and game improvement. Today we take a large step away from what this game was meant to be, and if there were ever a mission statement drawn up for this website, I feel this would be a direct violation.

I appreciate the effort, but this needs to be disabled or a game option at best.
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Re: Game Statistics

Postby Uncle Death on Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:27 pm

I made a little fun of it earlier but now I'm used to it and like it. A very good improvement, congratulations lack. It also brings joy to my heart to read how much trouble the bob users were having. I've always considered bob a cheat.
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Re: Game Statistics

Postby Qwert on Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:29 pm

this now statistic its not good.Its better to be belove map.
I realy dont like this what you create.
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Re: Game Statistics

Postby Qwert on Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:33 pm

I appreciate the effort, but this needs to be disabled or a game option at best.

Yes this is good idea,in that way people can remove this update,and will have good old view. Ofcourse people who like this can use this "improvment"
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Re: Game Statistics

Postby Bruceswar on Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:38 pm

drunkmonkey wrote:
JoshyBoy wrote:Bruceswar makes a good point. There are plenty of PAYING cuntomers who do not want this update on their screens. Now can you really ignore what some of your paying customers are saying? Well I guess you can do what you want.


I'd bet the thousands of paying members that will stay outweigh the 15-20 of you crybabies who threaten to quit and the 1-2 who actually will.



Those of us here might leave or may not, but over time, you make enough of these types of decisions where many are not happy, such as the banning of wicked(though needed) and the classic switch overnight 2 times (first one not needed like the 2nd), other revamps(yes I know you can read the foundry, but look at Germany) and other things, such as forum bans. (most needed) The point being is it should be you and your customers in 1 harmony, not you(site admininstation / owners) vs your customers. That is the way a good few feel in times like this. And while some leave and some may not, the overall mood is not a good one. I am sure I am not alone in this, when I say some of us feel like this is starting to get like the government. Your elected officials do not even listen sometimes to what the people they represent want. They just take the power given and use it as they like.

If there is a revamp to do be done, nobody can say otherwise. It just happens. The only thing we can say is what we think it should look like, but that is all up to the person doing the revamp

Updates such as these, we have no chance to even be asked how we want them to be brought in. They just happen often with problems. I think most are worried about the scrolling part.

In general there is no warning, just a pull the rug out and change it over night feel to most of what goes on with CC. No feedback taken before something goes into place. Thus you get outrage like you have now.
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Re: Game Statistics

Postby SirSebstar on Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:06 pm

I am quite extatic with this site(in general), i find the new update great although it does change more then i had anticipated (and no i dont use bob or anything but my head and printscreen) Still somehow brucewars argument struck a chord. There really is no annoucement in front of changes, cant we just do a sceduled uptdate so at least we know something could change even if we dont know what exactly?

oh well ore idea's like that, maybe i should take that to suggestions
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Re: Game Statistics

Postby number five on Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:23 pm

site seems to be slow now
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Re: Game Statistics

Postby denominator on Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:45 pm

This has been discussed before:

In-game Statistics
territory counter

If you want to keep up-to-date about the new things CC is thinking about implementing, check out the Suggs and Bugs section. I see no reason that Lack needs to post an announcement about an upcoming update to the entire site. The same people will complain about it and the same people will praise it, except that nobody will actually know how it affects them until it's implemented.

A "warning" of upcoming updates does nothing except stir the pot more.
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Re: Game Statistics

Postby ender516 on Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:24 pm

denominator wrote:This has been discussed before:

In-game Statistics
territory counter

If you want to keep up-to-date about the new things CC is thinking about implementing, check out the Suggs and Bugs section. I see no reason that Lack needs to post an announcement about an upcoming update to the entire site. The same people will complain about it and the same people will praise it, except that nobody will actually know how it affects them until it's implemented.

A "warning" of upcoming updates does nothing except stir the pot more.

True, but many online sites provide a chance to explore new features via beta testing before releasing it sitewide, and an advance copy to the major scriptkeepers could have prevented all the fuss around the clocks and other interactions with BOB.
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Re: Game Statistics

Postby denominator on Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:37 pm

ender516 wrote:
denominator wrote:This has been discussed before:

In-game Statistics
territory counter

If you want to keep up-to-date about the new things CC is thinking about implementing, check out the Suggs and Bugs section. I see no reason that Lack needs to post an announcement about an upcoming update to the entire site. The same people will complain about it and the same people will praise it, except that nobody will actually know how it affects them until it's implemented.

A "warning" of upcoming updates does nothing except stir the pot more.

True, but many online sites provide a chance to explore new features via beta testing before releasing it sitewide, and an advance copy to the major scriptkeepers could have prevented all the fuss around the clocks and other interactions with BOB.


Okay, I will agree to that. We even have BETA testing here with the maps, so it could have been done like that.

However, sherkaner at least was notified because he updated BOB right away:

lackattack wrote:Note to users of the "BOB" community plugin: This update breaks BOB's compatibility with Conquer Club, but sherkaner (who is maintaining the script) has graciously programmed a new version (4.9.7) special for this update, so please upgrade.


The fuss with the clock was simply because everyone had to update BOB, not because there was no fix.
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Re: Game Statistics

Postby mibi on Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:52 am

Why are people romanticizing the busy work? Counting territories and armies does not take skill nor strategy. It's simple busy work that takes time, of which mine is rather valuable.

Let's move on from that ridiculous point.

p.s. this update was implemented really poorly. Horizontal scrolling... c'mon.
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Re: Game Statistics

Postby SirSebstar on Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:13 am

i have some problem with the picture not refreshing as often as the clock.. is this ture, does CC really not refresh the gamepic as often as the clock, because then i have to keep hitting refresh myself
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Re: Game Statistics

Postby chephren on Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:42 am

mibi wrote:Why are people romanticizing the busy work? Counting territories and armies does not take skill nor strategy. It's simple busy work that takes time, of which mine is rather valuable.

Let's move on from that ridiculous point.

p.s. this update was implemented really poorly. Horizontal scrolling... c'mon.


Well said.

And let's not turn this into an "Us v Them" discussion. Some people have made very good points and I'm sure that the "powers that be" will take note. Lack and his team do a great job...I'm sure they will realise from the comments that there was a better way to go about this update and I fully expect them to act accordingly.
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Re: Game Statistics

Postby ender516 on Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:12 am

The horizontal scrolling could be eliminated if the information were presented not in a table, but as a line of text which folds/wraps when the window is too small, like the rating information:
If I were player one, it might resemble this (after the red/green icon and the rank symbol):

r:ender516 <<star>>4.8 S:2 R:38 T:84 D:30

where the letters stand for Spoils, Regions, Troops, and Due.
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Re: Game Statistics

Postby mibi on Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:12 pm

There is already a greazemonkey script that fixes the horizontal issue.

http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/63208

Users to the rescue once again!
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Re: Game Statistics

Postby ender516 on Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:30 pm

mibi wrote:There is already a greazemonkey script that fixes the horizontal issue.

http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/63208

Users to the rescue once again!

True enough, I use BOB which can turn off the new stats entirely, but for those users without Firefox/Greasemonkey (the real target of the Game Statistics update) who do not like the width, a more compact layout might be more acceptable.
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Re: Game Statistics

Postby B==D Boner Donor on Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:13 pm

HATE IT! HATE IT!! HATE IT!!!

It only gives weaker players for information...
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Re: Game Statistics

Postby R.theghost on Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:23 pm

B==D Boner Donor wrote:HATE IT! HATE IT!! HATE IT!!!

It only gives weaker players for information...


we learn to count before we are 5 years old... are "weaker players" younger then that?
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Re: Game Statistics

Postby Sun_Tzu on Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:49 pm

I really do not like it. Part of the game of Risk, is to take the effort to count and figure out what your enemy will make. The territories occupied, and the cards are fine, but not he # of troops or how much they will get next turn. Would it be possible to make the stat thing optional on games?
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