Russian peacekeeping forces enter Ukraine

[saxitoxin]

So many say that bombarding Yugoslavia 1999 by NAto against any UN approval and then create new state braking teritorial integrity of other country will open pandora box where all other coutries territorial integrity will mean nothing and where any minority could ceded and create new countries.
US belive that only they have right to invade and create pupet states , its look that things are change now Russia learn from US how to invade and change regimes by force.
And we all know how US created allies in Afghanistan just been abandoned by US, left to be killed by Talibans. Not to mention how many weapons and military equipment left behind.

Zelenskyy hasn't helped the situation. He went shooting his mouth off about Ukraine getting nukes and 72 hours later his capital is under siege. Zel got bitch slapped by Putin and is now just hoping NATO props up a government in exile where he can rule a rump Ukraine cleaved in half. He's responsible for destroying his own country through sheer recklessness but will probably get a book deal and a TODAY Show appearance out of it.

[Qwert]

So many say that bombarding Yugoslavia 1999 by NAto against any UN approval and then create new state braking teritorial integrity of other country will open pandora box where all other coutries territorial integrity will mean nothing and where any minority could ceded and create new countries.
US belive that only they have right to invade and create pupet states , its look that things are change now Russia learn from US how to invade and change regimes by force.
And we all know how US created allies in Afghanistan just been abandoned by US, left to be killed by Talibans. Not to mention how many weapons and military equipment left behind.

Are you trying to say you’re pro-Russian aggression?
Based on Putin’s threats against Sweden and Finland now too, I’d suggest you sit back and wait; Russian tanks may eventually come thank you for your support in person.

Are you trying to say your are pro -US aggression on Serbia?
Im not from Ukraine and im not from Russia to, Im from Serbia. Im only draw parallels between US and Russia, for me bout countries try to create pupet states.
Im not experience Russian aggression, but im experience 78 days of US aggression over my country. I try to explane to you that if US not respect other countries territorial integrity and use force to create puppet states, now suddenly people are surprised when Russia make same moves like US .
And US government are not honest in helping Ukraine, they impose sanctions who are not target oil and gas,, even today US buy every day 600k oil from Russia.
Germany send 5000 helmets military support???
Ukraine ask for help and what get ......nothing.

[HitRed]

Any oil workers here? How long to restart a well?

[jusplay4fun]

Any oil workers here? How long to restart a well?

That depends on what condition it was in when closed, I assume. And how old the well is; i.e., was the well closed recently?

[jimboston]

So many say that bombarding Yugoslavia 1999 by NAto against any UN approval and then create new state braking teritorial integrity of other country will open pandora box where all other coutries territorial integrity will mean nothing and where any minority could ceded and create new countries.
US belive that only they have right to invade and create pupet states , its look that things are change now Russia learn from US how to invade and change regimes by force.
And we all know how US created allies in Afghanistan just been abandoned by US, left to be killed by Talibans. Not to mention how many weapons and military equipment left behind.

Are you trying to say you’re pro-Russian aggression?
Based on Putin’s threats against Sweden and Finland now too, I’d suggest you sit back and wait; Russian tanks may eventually come thank you for your support in person.

Are you trying to say your are pro -US aggression on Serbia?
Im not from Ukraine and im not from Russia to, Im from Serbia. Im only draw parallels between US and Russia, for me bout countries try to create pupet states.
Im not experience Russian aggression, but im experience 78 days of US aggression over my country. I try to explane to you that if US not respect other countries territorial integrity and use force to create puppet states, now suddenly people are surprised when Russia make same moves like US .
And US government are not honest in helping Ukraine, they impose sanctions who are not target oil and gas,, even today US buy every day 600k oil from Russia.
Germany send 5000 helmets military support???
Ukraine ask for help and what get ......nothing.

You may see some parallels between the Russian/Ukrainian situation and the situation in the former Yugoslavian States.
I’m sure you can focus on those similarities… but the fact is there are way more differences.

[HitRed]

A gas pipeline outside Kharkiv was on fire after a Russian attack, and multiple explosions at an oil depot in Vasylkiv outside of Kyiv were reported. Initial analysis was that Russia was targeting gas and oil infrastructure.

Maybe retaliation for SWIFT

[mookiemcgee]

A gas pipeline outside Kharkiv was on fire after a Russian attack, and multiple explosions at an oil depot in Vasylkiv outside of Kyiv were reported. Initial analysis was that Russia was targeting gas and oil infrastructure.

Maybe retaliation for SWIFT

Did we pull the trigger on Swift? That was our (non lethal) nuclear option, surprised we already went there, yet not surprised. Also feel like Putin has been preparing for this for a decade and it pushes him much closer to China

[HitRed]

A gas pipeline outside Kharkiv was on fire after a Russian attack, and multiple explosions at an oil depot in Vasylkiv outside of Kyiv were reported. Initial analysis was that Russia was targeting gas and oil infrastructure.

Maybe retaliation for SWIFT

Did we pull the trigger on Swift? That was our (non lethal) nuclear option, surprised we already went there, yet not surprised. Also feel like Putin has been preparing for this for a decade and it pushes him much closer to China

The news said, a select number of Russian banks.

—-

In 2021 he stocked up on Yuan and gold. China has many reasons to like Russia.

Russia is probably richer in natural resources than any other country in the world. It has abundant supplies of oil, natural gas, timber and valuable minerals, such as copper, diamonds, lead, zinc, bauxite, nickel, tin, mercury, gold and silver— most of which are located in Siberia and the Far East.

[saxitoxin]

De Swifted "select banks" which means like community banks in Novosbirsk where grandmother keeps her savings and make no international transactions to begin with. Like their sanctions which include a ban on pineapples (!) from Russia.

None of this is a big deal.

Four stages of combat: maneuver, deploy, fight, pursue. Russians are still maneuvering.

Ukraine will surrender in a week at most. Everyone buying into all the western war propaganda ("the Ghost of Kiev!" etc) are going to be asking what happened by next weekend.

[HitRed]

Swift implications

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/v ... tion=click

[saxitoxin]

It turns out the heroic defenders of Snake Island whom US politicians were all weeping had died standing up to Ivan actually surrendered like good little Ukes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... ke-island/

Everything you hear is designed to whip you up into war hysteria, which Americans and Britons and Australians and Canadians are somehow genetically prone. Something about the Angle DNA.

Russia will win. The Ukes will bend the knee and will pay with the Donbas for their warmongering.

[saxitoxin]

Monday will be hilarious when Russia actually sends in the columns and all the Uke cheerleaders in America realize these "victories" have been against scout platoons. Thankfully, March Madness will be gearing up so they can turn their attention elsewhere.

Ukraine is about to be turned into a parking lot.

[Qwert]

So many say that bombarding Yugoslavia 1999 by NAto against any UN approval and then create new state braking teritorial integrity of other country will open pandora box where all other coutries territorial integrity will mean nothing and where any minority could ceded and create new countries.
US belive that only they have right to invade and create pupet states , its look that things are change now Russia learn from US how to invade and change regimes by force.
And we all know how US created allies in Afghanistan just been abandoned by US, left to be killed by Talibans. Not to mention how many weapons and military equipment left behind.

Are you trying to say you’re pro-Russian aggression?
Based on Putin’s threats against Sweden and Finland now too, I’d suggest you sit back and wait; Russian tanks may eventually come thank you for your support in person.

Are you trying to say your are pro -US aggression on Serbia?
Im not from Ukraine and im not from Russia to, Im from Serbia. Im only draw parallels between US and Russia, for me bout countries try to create pupet states.
Im not experience Russian aggression, but im experience 78 days of US aggression over my country. I try to explane to you that if US not respect other countries territorial integrity and use force to create puppet states, now suddenly people are surprised when Russia make same moves like US .
And US government are not honest in helping Ukraine, they impose sanctions who are not target oil and gas,, even today US buy every day 600k oil from Russia.
Germany send 5000 helmets military support???
Ukraine ask for help and what get ......nothing.

You may see some parallels between the Russian/Ukrainian situation and the situation in the former Yugoslavian States.
I’m sure you can focus on those similarities… but the fact is there are way more differences.

Can you give me differences?
And im talk about 1999 NATO Aggression on FR Yugoslavia , not to be confused with previous wars in Balkan .

Similarities

1.Kosovo Albanian minorities want to create own country on part of Serbian territory
Russian minorities in Donbas and Luhansk want to create own countries on part of Ukrainian territory

2.Albanians create paramilitary forces and start attack on police and army of Serbia
Russian create paramilitary forces and start attack on police and army of Ukraine

3.West propaganda create picture that 100000 Albanians was killed by Serbian forces (of course that was fake only serve for US to have reason for attack)
Russian propaganda create reports that Ukrainian forces bombard Donbas cities ( reason for Russia to attack Ukraine)

4.US-NAto attack sovereign country of Yugoslavia without UN approval
Russia attack sovereign country of Ukraine without UN approval

5.US-Nato after 78 days of heavy bombardment of mostly civilian targets( army had quite successful strategy to leave towns and hide they equipment) without UN approval occupy Kosovo province
Russia will probably occupy some parts of Ukraine without UN approval (its ongoing right now)

6.With US -NATO forces support and against UN resolution 1244 ( resolution who recognize Kosovo like part of Republic of Serbia) Kosovo declare independent from Serbia backed by western powers. As long Serbia refuse to recognize independent of Kosovo, these puppet state can not be full state recognize by UN.
(Now these are possible scenario for Ukraine) With Russian forces Doneck and Luhans will occupy administrative territories what belong to these Provinces . Russia will try to force Ukraine government to accept new reality and to recognize these two new country

I find similarities you give me differences

[jusplay4fun]

I am certainly NO expert on the Balkans or Ukraine. Most of what I knew was confirmed in my brief look at several websites.

ONE key difference is that the former country of Yugoslavia was, to me, destined for break up as it was a collection of many different and rather divergent and diverse ethnic groups. The dissolution of Yugoslavia after the death of Tito was inevitable. Ukraine is different in that it has (it seems to me) mostly those who call themselves Ukrainian and then significant numbers of Russian immigrants who live in Ukrainian territories. As with many nations, I am sure there are small enclaves of other groups and ethnicities. I am not aware of another significant minority population in Ukraine. https://www.britannica.com/place/Ukraine/People

There were reports of much discrimination and worse by the majority groups in many areas of then Yugoslavia. How much of that was "propaganda" I do not know.

My recollection of history is that Yugoslavia was "put together" after WW2 and the break up of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakup_of_Yugoslavia
Obviously the history of the region is very complex: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslavia

Due to its complex history, there was a great sense of many ethnic groups yearning to have its own lands and to be free of oppressors and overlords. THAT, to me, is another KEY difference between Ukraine and the Balkans and Yugoslavia.

A key question/issue for the world going forward is how many nations are needed to allow peoples those freedoms and their ability to determine their destiny? How to respect the rights of a small minority without breaking up larger nations? Those are the continuing questions.

Crimea is a good example of ethnic Russians moving there in the past 200 or less years, to man the former Soviet and Russian naval base(s) there. There were likely some ethnic Russians there before 1917. Crimea also has lots of desirable vacation lands and beaches and such, as well a lands to grow grapes and other crops. I am sure there is lots of money from oligarchs there buying such desirable places.

I met a young man who is from Ukraine and he was proudly Ukrainian. He is blonde and blue eyed and appeared to me to be Scandinavian; that may be the Viking influence. He is a very bright person and was an exchange student in my class for several month (about 15 years ago). He got the attention of the entire class when he spoke of his people being SLAVES. [As a side note, he really enjoyed the cupcakes my wife and I gave him at a going away celebration on his last day in my class. He took THREE (and asked for #3. "Of course, Vlad..!" I said.) Other students took one.]

Another KEY difference is that Putin is using minority status of some Russians to justify his land grab and his desire to install governments friendly to Russia on his borders. He does not like it that many nations of Eastern Europe do not want to part of his Russian Sphere of influence. {This is my first edit of this long post.} Kosovo was not formed to please a large power in the region, another KEY difference.

[bigtoughralf]

I am certainly NO expert on the Balkans or Ukraine. Most of what I knew was confirmed in my brief look at several websites.

[jusplay4fun]

Jump, ralf, and keep jumping. And you failed to reach the (quite attainable) bar of an intelligent and reasonable post, AGAIN.

And nearly ALL my knowledge and recollection on Yugoslavia and Ukraine was confirmed by my reading and looking BEFORE I posted. I usually do so to avoid looking foolish, unlike others. They look foolish nearly ALL the time. And by reading and CONFIRMING my knowledge, I have moved from knowing a bit to knowing a FAIR amount about both areas. (My one mistaken bit of knowledge that I was about to post was that Yugoslavia was formed after WW1. Every other statement I made BEFORE reading further was confirmed by at least one website. You see, I do not rely on my memory only for the basis of my opinions.)

What are you an expert on, ralf? Biased posts? Lashing out? Being angry? Being joyless? Looking like the fool? (and I am not referring to the high bar of a Shakespearean fool, either.) Jump, ralph.

Now I can return to ignoring you. 'nuff said.

[Pirlo]

It turns out the heroic defenders of Snake Island whom US politicians were all weeping had died standing up to Ivan actually surrendered like good little Ukes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... ke-island/

Everything you hear is designed to whip you up into war hysteria, which Americans and Britons and Australians and Canadians are somehow genetically prone. Something about the Angle DNA.

Russia will win. The Ukes will bend the knee and will pay with the Donbas for their warmongering.

It's amazing how media kept hailing them as heroes who would rather die than surrender. Zelensky is being made a "hero" as well.

[thegroover]

Those "peacekeepers" are certainly killing a lot of people.

Putin is a looney.

I would remind you of that when he presses that red button (which he has already threatened to do). But I don't think I would have very much time to do so. There has been an amazing amount of crap posted on this thread. Mostly by one person.

He has recently threatened Finland, Norway, Estonia, Lithuanian, Estonia and the baltic states.

I have no beef with the Russian people, or the army. This has been instigated by Putin and his KGB cronies.

In the UK we have already had chemical attacks (Novichok nerve agent) and murders by KGB operatives who are on "holiday!"

I'm not sure if you are aware but since 2005 there have been 170 Russian attempts at entering UK/EU airspace by Russian Bear bombers that carry a nuke payload.

The last of these was 2 Feb 2022.

The cold war never ended.

[thegroover]

And to confirm that he is a looney and what I posted above he has just put his nuclear arsenal on the max special alert.

See ya in the next life.

[bigtoughralf]

Those "peacekeepers" are certainly killing a lot of people.

Peace comes at a price. Just ask Tony Blair, 500,000 Iraqi civilian deaths was what it took for him to become the UN's Peace Envoy to the Middle East.

As stated in my OP, Putin is simply following the centuries-old peacekeeping blueprints drawn up by his imperialist pals in other European and North American capitals.

[Qwert]

I am certainly NO expert on the Balkans or Ukraine. Most of what I knew was confirmed in my brief look at several websites.

ONE key difference is that the former country of Yugoslavia was, to me, destined for break up as it was a collection of many different and rather divergent and diverse ethnic groups. The dissolution of Yugoslavia after the death of Tito was inevitable. Ukraine is different in that it has (it seems to me) mostly those who call themselves Ukrainian and then significant numbers of Russian immigrants who live in Ukrainian territories. As with many nations, I am sure there are small enclaves of other groups and ethnicities. I am not aware of another significant minority population in Ukraine. https://www.britannica.com/place/Ukraine/People

There were reports of much discrimination and worse by the majority groups in many areas of then Yugoslavia. How much of that was "propaganda" I do not know.

My recollection of history is that Yugoslavia was "put together" after WW2 and the break up of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakup_of_Yugoslavia
Obviously the history of the region is very complex: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslavia

Due to its complex history, there was a great sense of many ethnic groups yearning to have its own lands and to be free of oppressors and overlords. THAT, to me, is another KEY difference between Ukraine and the Balkans and Yugoslavia.

A key question/issue for the world going forward is how many nations are needed to allow peoples those freedoms and their ability to determine their destiny? How to respect the rights of a small minority without breaking up larger nations? Those are the continuing questions.

Crimea is a good example of ethnic Russians moving there in the past 200 or less years, to man the former Soviet and Russian naval base(s) there. There were likely some ethnic Russians there before 1917. Crimea also has lots of desirable vacation lands and beaches and such, as well a lands to grow grapes and other crops. I am sure there is lots of money from oligarchs there buying such desirable places.

I met a young man who is from Ukraine and he was proudly Ukrainian. He is blonde and blue eyed and appeared to me to be Scandinavian; that may be the Viking influence. He is a very bright person and was an exchange student in my class for several month (about 15 years ago). He got the attention of the entire class when he spoke of his people being SLAVES. [As a side note, he really enjoyed the cupcakes my wife and I gave him at a going away celebration on his last day in my class. He took THREE (and asked for #3. "Of course, Vlad..!" I said.) Other students took one.]

Another KEY difference is that Putin is using minority status of some Russians to justify his land grab and his desire to install governments friendly to Russia on his borders. He does not like it that many nations of Eastern Europe do not want to part of his Russian Sphere of influence. {This is my first edit of this long post.} Kosovo was not formed to please a large power in the region, another KEY difference.

Small update > YUgoslavia had 6 Republic =Slovenia,Croatia,Macedonia,Montenegro,Bosnia and Hercegovina, Serbia
all these republic had right to leave Yugoslavia,,,,
Now Serbia had 2 provinces >>Vojvodina and Kosovo
Provinces dont have right like Republic and dont have right to separate from Serbia (that was constitution of SFR Yugoslavia)
That why KOsovo are still not recognise in UN like sovereign country.
(maybe you dont know that)

[saxitoxin]

And to confirm that he is a looney and what I posted above he has just put his nuclear arsenal on the max special alert.

See ya in the next life.

The only thing that's crazy about that is that Western nations don't immediately back off: stop sending weapons, stop the sanctions.

You have an angry bear in a corner and you keep poking it, things won't go well.

[saxitoxin]

THE key difference between this war and the Serbia genocide is that the Russians are taking casualties in order to avoid hitting civilianS targets. They could easily carpet bomb Ukraine into dust and then occupy what's left. NATO showed no such restraint in Serbia, hitting all sorts of civilian infrastructure.

[HitRed]

The Powell Doctrine

The doctrine poses questions emphasizing (1) national security interests, (2) overwhelming strike capabilities with an emphasis on ground forces, (3) and widespread public support. All of which have to be answered affirmatively before military action is taken.

Going to run simple math on section (2):

(2) overwhelming strike capabilities with an emphasis on ground forces

Russian troops on the boarder of Ukraine on February 23, 2022 190,000
Ukrainian troops 400,000

Defenders advantage 2:1

As of Friday Russia had only sent in 1/3 of their troops. 63,000
Ukrainian troops 400,000

Defenders advantage 6:1

As of Saturday Russia had sent in only 1/2 of their troops 95,000
Ukrainian troops 400,000

Defenders advantage 4:1

Putin is not following section (2) of the Powell Doctrine.