National Pride

[jiminski]

i have pride in Man City, as we just beat Portsmouth 6-0.

good heavens!

[mandyb]

i have pride in Man City, as we just beat Portsmouth 6-0.

oooo, I know someone who won't be happy.

[MeDeFe]

I am not proud of being English in a way which pits me against any other culture, nation or religion. I am, and perhaps the word 'Pride' is what is causing the problem in interpretation, I am proud to associate myself with aspects of Englishness and Britishness. No not Fox hunting, the Queen or indeterminate cuisine; Principles of individual liberty, of fairness, inventiveness, and yeah maybe the ability to lose gracefully at any given sport, for a long time grace seemed much more important than victory... how bloody civilised!

Now come on, old chap, how many other nations do you think would claim those same principles for their own?

hehe what are you going for the MeD: Archetypal German smart-arse and toss-pot? You are doing well but we also have similar characteristics here in the UK ; )

That's exactly my point!

"National characteristics" is an empty term, there is no such thing, not for any nation, never has been, never will be. It's just a way of trying to lump a population of several million individuals together and tell them what they are like, regardless of whether they are anything like it or not.

If you are a fair-minded, inventive proponent of individual liberty and not at all a sore loser, well, that's fine and dandy. Be proud of yourself because you're such a terrific person. But please, don't come and tell us that those are "national characteristics" pertinent to Brits, and because they are "national characteristics" sooo many Brits must have them and therefore you're proud to be another British citizen.

[Napoleon Ier]

I am proud and a champion of British Liberalism and those national characteristics which i think best exemplify our nation. [really bad food, fox hunts and awful hats whenever that queen of yours shows up]

Fox hunting? Nothing wrong with fox hunting in particular, though I do understand some people are opposed to hunting of any sort.

I'm proud of our countryside and its traditions, the Boxing Day hunt meets in particular are wonderful. I'm also proud of the variety and quality of our food, I'm a bit confused as to why you picked on that. The worst food available in England is mainly American fast and convenience food, not exactly our fault.

I have no strong opinions on hats, because I'M not gay.

I'm proud of the Church of England (most of the time) for it's openness and tolerance, I'm proud of the Premier League for being the most popular domestic sporting competition in the world, I'm proud of the NHS, I'm proud of the BBC and I'm proud that so many people across the world choose to come and live here.

I think heavycola is wrong, pride in your country isn't automatic depending on where you're born, it's not something to look down on.. having pride in what your country does well is healthy and natural, so long as it's not blind.

proud of the countryside? I don't really understand what that even means.

I was born in England thanks to a lucky accident, as were the rest of you (whether english or american or australian). It had nothing to do with me. What have i got to be proud of?
I grew up in a country with a national health service, freedom of speech, a democratic system of government, beautiful countryside - I love these things and admire the people who work for and manage them, and i feel very fortunate to have been born here. It means i have a great standard of living, a free health and welfare safety net if it all goes wrong, a say in how my country and county and borough are governed. I have a shared language, idiom and to some extent cultural commonality with my neighbours and that makes me feel comfortable here. I belong.
But why would I have pride in these things? What does that even mean? If you work as an NHS nurse, you probably (hopefully) take pride in your work and your contribution to the greater good. But pride in your country? Pride in a chunk of rock that you happened to be born on? A waste of time, misguided, dangerous bunk.

Reducing National Pride to a pride in a metaphysical entity underlying a chunk of land in and of itself is wrong, but that isn't what true Nationalism is about. It's pride in a culture and a sense of community.

[jiminski]

I am not proud of being English in a way which pits me against any other culture, nation or religion. I am, and perhaps the word 'Pride' is what is causing the problem in interpretation, I am proud to associate myself with aspects of Englishness and Britishness. No not Fox hunting, the Queen or indeterminate cuisine; Principles of individual liberty, of fairness, inventiveness, and yeah maybe the ability to lose gracefully at any given sport, for a long time grace seemed much more important than victory... how bloody civilised!

Now come on, old chap, how many other nations do you think would claim those same principles for their own?

hehe what are you going for the MeD: Archetypal German smart-arse and toss-pot? You are doing well but we also have similar characteristics here in the UK ; )

That's exactly my point!

"National characteristics" is an empty term, there is no such thing, not for any nation, never has been, never will be. It's just a way of trying to lump a population of several million individuals together and tell them what they are like, regardless of whether they are anything like it or not.

If you are a fair-minded, inventive proponent of individual liberty and not at all a sore loser, well, that's fine and dandy. Be proud of yourself because you're such a terrific person. But please, don't come and tell us that those are "national characteristics" pertinent to Brits, and because they are "national characteristics" sooo many Brits must have them and therefore you're proud to be another British citizen.

you are completely missing my point MeD. I will assume you are doing that on purpose and remove myself from this conversation, graciously. You win! God it's good to be British*! ; )

*that is a jest, so was the prior post.. it was not an illustration of your or my point but merely played with both in the hope that i could retreat from the discourse.

[MeDeFe]

it was not an illustration of your or my point but merely played with both in the hope that i could retreat from the discourse.

No such luck, internet debate is serious business.