UN to investigate plight of Native Americans

[Symmetry]

Wunderbar

[PLAYER57832]

Hmm, as far as I can tell, the remit of the investigation is mostly to do with modern conditions, rather than long term historical claims. No need for any weird hysteria about the US government having to "give them back their land", unless it was being encroached on currently, or reasonably recently.

My guess would be that that particular part of the declaration is more aimed toward indigenous tribes in the southern part of the Americas, especially with regards to logging and development in the Amazon.

Actually, that pretty much did happen in Alaska. Without going into the whole legal complexities, basically the court ruled that the lands were never given the the US and therefore most of Alaska and its resources were still rightfully in the hands of Native Americans. In a sem-paternalistic move Native Corporations were formed to administer the resources. Ironically, while those native corporations did a good job of managing resources, in some cases they were far more exploitative/destructive to the environment than the non-native groups. I have, for example, a picture of acres and acres of complete denuded acreage edged by full timber stands and more checkered, smaller cuts (stream side buffers and such applied). The huge clear cuts were from Native Corporations, the areas with protected streams, uncut sections was US Forest Service property.

The Bolt (Boldt?) decision had similar impact. Basically, the ruling was that while some tribes gave away various rights, for good or ill, others did not.. and therefore still retained rights/ownership of those resources. The impact could have been more, but some of the tribes impacted no longer exist, others just did not have money to fight and still others took what compensation they could get rather than fighting further.

[Symmetry]

Hmm, as far as I can tell, the remit of the investigation is mostly to do with modern conditions, rather than long term historical claims. No need for any weird hysteria about the US government having to "give them back their land", unless it was being encroached on currently, or reasonably recently.

My guess would be that that particular part of the declaration is more aimed toward indigenous tribes in the southern part of the Americas, especially with regards to logging and development in the Amazon.

Actually, that pretty much did happen in Alaska. Without going into the whole legal complexities, basically the court ruled that the lands were never given the the US and therefore most of Alaska and its resources were still rightfully in the hands of Native Americans. In a sem-paternalistic move Native Corporations were formed to administer the resources. Ironically, while those native corporations did a good job of managing resources, in some cases they were far more exploitative/destructive to the environment than the non-native groups. I have, for example, a picture of acres and acres of complete denuded acreage edged by full timber stands and more checkered, smaller cuts (stream side buffers and such applied). The huge clear cuts were from Native Corporations, the areas with protected streams, uncut sections was US Forest Service property.

The Bolt (Boldt?) decision had similar impact. Basically, the ruling was that while some tribes gave away various rights, for good or ill, others did not.. and therefore still retained rights/ownership of those resources. The impact could have been more, but some of the tribes impacted no longer exist, others just did not have money to fight and still others took what compensation they could get rather than fighting further.

That's kind of interesting. Looks like the guy will be visiting Alaska as part of his reporting, so maybe that will be part of his remit. My point was kind of that the real long term historical claims weren't really his area. Certainly 20th-21st century developments in terms of land ownership would fall into his area.

I can kind of appreciate that seeing the letters UN attached to this would immediately set a few people off, but the investigator seems like a pretty stand up guy from what I've read, so hopefully he'll do a fair job and create a decent national debate.

[saxitoxin]

Hmm, as far as I can tell, the remit of the investigation is mostly to do with modern conditions, rather than long term historical claims. No need for any weird hysteria about the US government having to "give them back their land", unless it was being encroached on currently, or reasonably recently.

My guess would be that that particular part of the declaration is more aimed toward indigenous tribes in the southern part of the Americas, especially with regards to logging and development in the Amazon.

Actually, that pretty much did happen in Alaska. Without going into the whole legal complexities, basically the court ruled that the lands were never given the the US and therefore most of Alaska and its resources were still rightfully in the hands of Native Americans. In a sem-paternalistic move Native Corporations were formed to administer the resources. Ironically, while those native corporations did a good job of managing resources, in some cases they were far more exploitative/destructive to the environment than the non-native groups. I have, for example, a picture of acres and acres of complete denuded acreage edged by full timber stands and more checkered, smaller cuts (stream side buffers and such applied). The huge clear cuts were from Native Corporations, the areas with protected streams, uncut sections was US Forest Service property.

The Bolt (Boldt?) decision had similar impact. Basically, the ruling was that while some tribes gave away various rights, for good or ill, others did not.. and therefore still retained rights/ownership of those resources. The impact could have been more, but some of the tribes impacted no longer exist, others just did not have money to fight and still others took what compensation they could get rather than fighting further.

Boldt I and Boldt II are interesting cases to bring up, P.

Wikipedia has a pretty good summary of them, too (officially United States vs. State of Washington) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boldt_Decision

create a decent national debate

I'm sure the Guardian could print daily updates and the whole affair would pass entirely unnoticed.

[Symmetry]

I don't think the Guardian will be printing daily updates, but I can post if they do have updates if you like.

[saxitoxin]

I don't think the Guardian will be printing daily updates, but I can post if they do have updates if you like.

oh please do

[saxitoxin]

I don't think the Guardian will be printing daily updates, but I can post if they do have updates if you like.

Symmetry didn't fulfill his promise.

The United Nations wrapped up its in-depth investigation, which was conducted by 1 person over the course of 11 days. One person, in 11 days, did an in-depth investigation of 9.8 million square kilometers of territory, 310 native tribes, 1 million native people and reviewed the context of more than 1,000 treaties.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ma ... -tribes-un

The "UN Special Rapporteur for Indiginous Peoples" who conducted the investigation (James Ananya), is actually a U.S. citizen. He is a former gambling lobbyist from Phoenix, Arizona where he represented the Gila River Nation Department of Casinos and Gaming. His report recommended the U.S. government expand the Sioux Nation's Rosebud Indian Reservation by granting adjacent BLM land. Coincidentally, the Sioux's Rosebud Entertainment & Casino Complex has been trying to expand through the addition of a larger slot machines facility that would be located off tribal territory for more than 10 years but has been unable to get permits from the state. This unrelated and coincidental concern was not contained in the Guardian's coverage.

Ananya says the only U.S. official who would cooperate with his investigation was Barack Obama. Again, coincidentally, in 2008 Barack Obama received $1 million in donations from tribal casino CEOs, headlined by a fundraising dinner his campaign held in which Native chiefs paid $35,000/plate (twice the annual income of a poor-as-dirt Welshman) to eat with then-candidate Obama. A similar fundraiser is planned this year. Again, the Guardian didn't have space to include this.

UNPO is the only international group qualified to conduct these investigations. The (US-based) UN is simply a chew toy that gets used for political expediency by whatever party is running the U.S. in any given year. It's a prop for U.S. domestic politics and has nothing to do with international anything.

[PLAYER57832]

I didn't read through this but which group is the palistinians and which group is the israelis in 'merica?

Native Americans would be the Palistiniens and we would be the Israelis.

[Symmetry]

Update:

US should return stolen land to Indian tribes, says United Nations

A United Nations investigator probing discrimination against Native Americans has called on the US government to return some of the land stolen from Indian tribes as a step toward combatting continuing and systemic racial discrimination.

James Anaya, the UN special rapporteur on the rights of indigenous peoples, said no member of the US Congress would meet him as he investigated the part played by the government in the considerable difficulties faced by Indian tribes.

"It's a racial discrimination that they feel is both systemic and also specific instances of ongoing discrimination that is felt at the individual level," he said.
Anaya said racism extended from the broad relationship between federal or state governments and tribes down to local issues such as education.

"For example, with the treatment of children in schools both by their peers and by teachers as well as the educational system itself; the way native Americans and indigenous peoples are reflected in the school curriculum and teaching," he said.

"And discrimination in the sense of the invisibility of Native Americans in the country overall that often is reflected in the popular media. The idea that is often projected through the mainstream media and among public figures that indigenous peoples are either gone or as a group are insignificant or that they're out to get benefits in terms of handouts, or their communities and cultures are reduced to casinos, which are just flatly wrong.

Last month, the US justice and interior departments announced a $1 billion settlement over nearly 56 million acres of Indian land held in trust by Washington but exploited by commercial interests for timber, farming, mining and other uses with little benefit to the tribes.

The attorney general, Eric Holder, said the settlement "fairly and honourably resolves historical grievances over the accounting and management of tribal trust funds, trust lands and other non-monetary trust resources that, for far too long, have been a source of conflict between Indian tribes and the United States."

But Anaya said that was only a step in the right direction.

"These are important steps but we're talking about mismanagement by the government of assets that were left to indigenous peoples," he said. "This money for the insults on top of the injury. It's not money for the initial problem itself, which is the taking of vast territories. This is very important and I think the administration should be commended for moving forward to settle these claims but there are these deeper issues that need to be addressed."

[thegreekdog]

I wonder who received the $1 billion settlement?

[Symmetry]

I wonder who received the $1 billion settlement?

That's an interesting question.

[2dimes]

So why can't I be indigenous where I was born?

[Symmetry]

I wonder who received the $1 billion settlement?

That's an interesting question.

Did a bit of digging, and the details seem to be here:

US Department of Justice

[Phatscotty]

Symm. How do you feel about white people?

[Symmetry]

Symm. How do you feel about white people?

They should avoid intense sunlight? Can we skip the foreplay, and get to the actual point you want to make. You know I'll be honest in my response, and you know I'll criticise you honestly when I disagree.

[saxitoxin]

US should return stolen land to Indian tribes, says United Nations U.S. citizen and former tribal casino attorney

corrected for accuracy

The problem with papers like the Guardian and Le Monde with their bi-monthly stories on the plight of Native Americans, is that they're based on an understanding of aboriginal issues that starts and ends with Kevin Costner films.

Native Americans have been completely wiped out. All that's left is a complex legal fiction maintained by major Las Vegas gambling concerns to enhance their revenues through franchise casino operations.

This article is a bit more detailed in the normal, day-to-day reality of tribal governance. The Guardian can't devote this type of reporting in its bi-monthly, 20,000 feet flyover reports ...

The terms of office have expired for most members of the Snoqualmie Tribal Council, and an enrollment audit still in the works has revealed the chairman of the tribe and two members of its council aren't qualified under the tribe's constitution to hold office or vote. Neither is the tribal member on the board of a new gambling venture in Fiji, in which the tribe has already invested $1.5 million. The tribe hasn't had an election in two years, because of members' inability to agree who is qualified to vote or hold office, due to an ongoing tribal-membership dispute. Nina Repin, 56, of Snohomish, is the only regular voting member of the council today whose term is unexpired and whose blood quantum also has so far been shown to meet the tribe's requirements to hold office. The present constitution requires that anyone who runs for office or votes must possess at least one-eighth degree of Snoqualmie blood.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/l ... oq28m.html

Yes, only one of the exalted spirit elders who walk the way of Coyote (Vegas-trained gambling executives associated with Donald Trump and Steve Wynn) is able to even manage 1/8 Native-American ancestry. The Grand Chief Elder of the Snoqualmie Tribe is more than 7/8 German. This is pretty normal.

[saxitoxin]

The same tribe, the Snoqualmie Nation, recently gave the CEO of their casino a $14,000,000 severance package. (The tribal population is 650.)

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.c ... uary-32335

The deal was negotiated by tribal Vice-Chair Great Bear Who Soars With Eagles, Mary-Anne Hinzman.

The tribal system in the U.S. is a complex tax shelter scheme and that's about it. When you're reporting on U.S. tribal issues from a cubicle on the 3rd floor of an office building in central London it's understandable this fact would elude you. These are not bright people who work at the Graun. Their shoddy reporting is allowing well-intentioned, but easily duped, people like Symmetry to have their sympathy advantaged to maximize the profits of Las Vegas and Monte Carlo-based multi-national gambling corporations.

[/]

I actually do know Native Americans, there are plenty living here, I can't speak for other tribes across the nation as their own problems vary, I assume Vegas in particular, because really, is anything not corrupt there?

The truth of the matter is a bit nuanced; natives usually do not spread an individual stipend, the money is given to the tribal government to run their reservation as a city, to take care of hospitals, law enforcement roads and the like.
The Casinos (if allowed by the state) are not run by natives, the natives hire them to run the casinos as they see fit on their land, in return they receive a cut of the profits, native still pay federal taxes however.

As for why native "suffer", even those with no connection with gambling, it is partially because of corruption, and legal loopholes. By self governing the tribe is allowed to prosecute cases against tribe members through tribal court, this court is essentially broken, it allows offenders to run wild and basically refuses to cooperate with American police for anything short of murder, thus drunk drivers, burglars, and molesters get a safe haven, you can see why this would lead to the breakdown of their society. Compounding this situation are dated laws that muddles jurisdiction, forcing agencies and victims to go through complicated time wasting processes just to see if the crime would be investigated by the state, tribe, feds etc. Fortunately these laws have been recently amended.

http://news.change.org/stories/tackling ... servations

[BigBallinStalin]

What the f*ck, saxi. Dances with Wolves is the best film in the world. If you disagree, YOUR A MORON!!!

Kevin Costner's acting is superb. The best, phenomenal, so pleasurable it's painful.

[Phatscotty]

What the f*ck, saxi. Dances with Wolves is the best film in the world. If you disagree, YOUR A MORON!!!

Kevin Costner's acting is superb. The best, phenomenal, so pleasurable it's painful.

[Phatscotty]

US should return stolen land to Indian tribes, says United Nations U.S. citizen and former tribal casino attorney

corrected for accuracy

The problem with papers like the Guardian and Le Monde with their bi-monthly stories on the plight of Native Americans, is that they're based on an understanding of aboriginal issues that starts and ends with Kevin Costner films.

Native Americans have been completely wiped out. All that's left is a complex legal fiction maintained by major Las Vegas gambling concerns to enhance their revenues through franchise casino operations.

This article is a bit more detailed in the normal, day-to-day reality of tribal governance. The Guardian can't devote this type of reporting in its bi-monthly, 20,000 feet flyover reports ...

The terms of office have expired for most members of the Snoqualmie Tribal Council, and an enrollment audit still in the works has revealed the chairman of the tribe and two members of its council aren't qualified under the tribe's constitution to hold office or vote. Neither is the tribal member on the board of a new gambling venture in Fiji, in which the tribe has already invested $1.5 million. The tribe hasn't had an election in two years, because of members' inability to agree who is qualified to vote or hold office, due to an ongoing tribal-membership dispute. Nina Repin, 56, of Snohomish, is the only regular voting member of the council today whose term is unexpired and whose blood quantum also has so far been shown to meet the tribe's requirements to hold office. The present constitution requires that anyone who runs for office or votes must possess at least one-eighth degree of Snoqualmie blood.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/l ... oq28m.html

Yes, only one of the exalted spirit elders who walk the way of Coyote (Vegas-trained gambling executives associated with Donald Trump and Steve Wynn) is able to even manage 1/8 Native-American ancestry. The Grand Chief Elder of the Snoqualmie Tribe is more than 7/8 German. This is pretty normal.

Lies! I trained one in when I was working in Colorado.
Dude drank 6 Monster energy drinks every single day, and that was just at work. All he had to do was sit in a chair all day...I can only imagine he drank more after work. I wonder if he is still alive. Hmmm, maybe those aren't lies after all!

Sorry