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Partisan US Supreme Court faithfully toes party line

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Partisan US Supreme Court faithfully toes party line

Postby mrswdk on Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:10 pm

A case study of the judiciary process in large superpower nation states.

America

American Supreme Court judges are selected by whichever political faction controls the presidency, with Presidents choosing these judges based on judges' political leanings (Democrat Presidents recruit 'liberal judges', Republican Presidents recruit 'conservative judges').

This means that American law is essentially a to-and-fro between the two ideological factions of its ruling party. As the conservatives gain influence, the nation's laws and courts become more conservative. As the liberals gain influence, the nation's law-making becomes more liberal. See today's ruling on the President's ban on transgender military service people, in which Supreme Court judges voted 100% in allegiance with their party factions' positions on the ban:

The United States Supreme Court has allowed President Donald Trump to enforce his policy of banning certain transgender people from the military.

The court voted 5-4 to grant a Trump administration request to lift injunctions blocking the policy while challenges continue in lower courts.

The four liberal judges on the court opposed the ruling.


China

The judicial system is broadly the same in the world's other superpower: China. In China, judges of the Supreme People's Court are selected by the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress (the Chinese equivalent of the US Executive Branch, or UK's Cabinet). The Standing Committee, and wider People's Congress, similarly see shifts in the influence of the Congress' two main factions: the neo-liberals and the populists, which the direction of the nation's legal system and rulings shift in step with.

The slight difference, however, is that judges are picked generally based on their track record of adherence to Party leadership. Rather than making rulings along the lines of their own ideological bent, they are instead more likely to make rulings in accordance with the prevailing ideological doctrine within the wider Party.

This means that while the US legal rulings are fixed along the ideological lines of previous Presidents' political leanings, the rulings of the Chinese system instead shift more regularly as the factional control of the government shifts.

Summary

America and China have very similar legal systems, influenced by their main political factions. The main difference is that while America's system is set up in such a way that the two political factions are able to endlessly gridlock and obstruct each other (e.g. its government has been in shutdown for the past month due to factional infighting), China's system enables the dominant faction to exercise more complete control and maintain direction and trajectory.
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Re: Partisan US Supreme Court faithfully toes party line

Postby HitRed on Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:38 pm

China is detaining Muslims in vast numbers.
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Re: Partisan US Supreme Court faithfully toes party line

Postby armati on Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:38 pm

mrswdk interesting post.

China detaining muslems is true, they are taken to camps that work towards taking the islam outta the muslem.
Maybe they should send them to europe.
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Re: Partisan US Supreme Court faithfully toes party line

Postby Dukasaur on Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:43 pm

HitRed wrote:China is detaining Muslims in vast numbers.



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Re: Partisan US Supreme Court faithfully toes party line

Postby HitRed on Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:48 pm

I would think a court hearing in the USA would be more fair than in China.
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Re: Partisan US Supreme Court faithfully toes party line

Postby Dukasaur on Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:02 pm

HitRed wrote:I would think a court hearing in the USA would be more fair than in China.


Probably, most of the time.

I've read about some pretty unfair trials, though. A minority defendant in a conservative town can be convicted on very flimsy evidence.

I do a lot of reading on trials and stuff, and some of it is mind-blowing. There's one case I remember in Texas or Oklahoma, where a group of youths (black) were partying at some guy's house and at some point the leader of their group decided to rob their host, and then killed him. One of the group was totally against the robbery and the killing. In fact he desperately tried to get his friends to stop, to the point where he was almost killed along with the victim. When the group were convicted, they all got the same sentence, life imprisonment with no chance of parole for 40 years. The guy who tried to prevent the crime got no consideration at sentencing and got the same sentence as the others. I find that really horrific. I don't think it would happen anywhere else, that a judge would totally discount the fact that one member of the group was opposed to the crime and tried to stop it. I think only an attitude like "they're all animals, I can't tell them apart" would justify that kind of callous sentencing.
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Re: Partisan US Supreme Court faithfully toes party line

Postby armati on Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:45 pm

Groveland Four pardoned in Florida, 70 years after white woman ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../year ... ns-four-...
Jan 11, 2019 - Two were shot dead and two spent years in prison after Norma
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Re: Partisan US Supreme Court faithfully toes party line

Postby armati on Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:52 pm

Justice is "just us".

There are 2 sets of laws in the U.S. this is just 1 example but the list is endless.


JP Morgan CEO Who Stole Billions From Taxpayers Now a Billionaire ...
https://thedailybanter.com/.../jp-morga ... rs-now-a...

Go rob a bank for $10...double dog dare ya.

Gerald Celente forcasts trends, he mentions the 2 justice systems as well.
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Re: Partisan US Supreme Court faithfully toes party line

Postby HitRed on Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:06 pm

https://people.com/crime/new-documentar ... ual-panic/

I have met 2 of these people. They give talks at the local collages to law classes. Found guilty though they were innocent.
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Re: Partisan US Supreme Court faithfully toes party line

Postby Bernie Sanders on Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:04 pm

HitRed wrote:https://people.com/crime/new-documentary-examines-controversial-conviction-of-san-antonio-four-amidst-satanic-ritual-panic/

I have met 2 of these people. They give talks at the local collages to law classes. Found guilty though they were innocent.


There's a Justice system for poor working people....guilty until proven innocent.

If you have deep pockets, well it's up to the prosecutors to prove guilt.

Justice is not blind....it's driven by money.
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Re: Partisan US Supreme Court faithfully toes party line

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:13 pm

mrswdk wrote:American Supreme Court judges are selected by whichever political faction controls the presidency, with Presidents choosing these judges based on judges' political leanings (Democrat Presidents recruit 'liberal judges', Republican Presidents recruit 'conservative judges').

This means that American law is essentially a to-and-fro between the two ideological factions of its ruling party. As the conservatives gain influence, the nation's laws and courts become more conservative. As the liberals gain influence, the nation's law-making becomes more liberal. See today's ruling on the President's ban on transgender military service people, in which Supreme Court judges voted 100% in allegiance with their party factions' positions on the ban:

The United States Supreme Court has allowed President Donald Trump to enforce his policy of banning certain transgender people from the military.

The court voted 5-4 to grant a Trump administration request to lift injunctions blocking the policy while challenges continue in lower courts.

The four liberal judges on the court opposed the ruling.


This is theoretically incorrect for four reasons:

    (a) By unwritten custom, justices of the Supreme Court are attorneys (it's been 70 years since a non-lawyer was appointed to the court), meaning they have undergone three years of graduate-level training in the theory, application, and interpretation of an objective code of laws at an institution accredited by the American Bar Association, a non-governmental body. Three years of indoctrination to a specific way of doing things has a substantial and enduring impact on one's worldview.

    (b) Supreme Court justices are expected to recuse themselves in cases in which they have a material, legal, or familial interest and have done so 90 times between 2005 and 2017.

    (c) Formal and informal obligations to the President are constitutionally severed once a justice is inaugurated; they can't be removed, are never up for reappointment since they serve for life, and their salaries can never be suspended or decreased.

    (d) The President never has a free hand to appoint whomever he wants since his selection is subject to approval by the Senate.

This is demonstrably incorrect in two points:

    - While 5-4 decisions along ideological lines tend to capture headlines, only 20% of Supreme Court decisions are split verdicts. In fact, 70% of cases are decided by 7-2, 8-1, or 9-0 decisions.

    - Over the last 30 years, German and South African courts have both cited U.S. Supreme Court decisions more than any other court, aside from other German and South African courts. The U.S. Supreme Court is also widely cited in other countries that permit transjudicial communication demonstrating that its verdicts are generally considered sound by non-Americans. By contrast, the U.S. Supreme Court almost never cites foreign courts in its verdicts (other than British courts whose verdicts from 1215 to 1776 apply in the U.S. except in Louisiana, Guam, Puerto Rico, Palau, the Republic of the Marshall Islands, Samoa, the Northern Mariana Islands, the Virgin Islands, and the Federated States of Micronesia).
Last edited by saxitoxin on Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:29 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Partisan US Supreme Court faithfully toes party line

Postby HitRed on Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:17 pm

Bernie Sanders wrote:
HitRed wrote:https://people.com/crime/new-documentary-examines-controversial-conviction-of-san-antonio-four-amidst-satanic-ritual-panic/

I have met 2 of these people. They give talks at the local collages to law classes. Found guilty though they were innocent.


There's a Justice system for poor working people....guilty until proven innocent.

If you have deep pockets, well it's up to the prosecutors to prove guilt.

Justice is not blind....it's driven by money.


O.J. Simpson

Your case rests.
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