Israel

[bigtoughralf]

The Israeli military is continuing its invasion of a defenceless refugee camp, destroying residential districts with tanks and air strikes before bringing in bulldozers to flatten shops and markets:

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 024-05-21/

The IDF playbook under its war criminal commander in chief:

• Attack civilian areas, destroy all the housing
• Tell civilians to seek shelter in refugee camps and 'safe zones'
• Attack civilians while they travel to those camps
• Let the camps fill up then attack the camps too

[Pack Rat]

Release the hostages...

[Lonous]

Its pretty clear more people at CC are concerned about the welfare of the Israeli hostages, than the Israeli leadership is.

Click image to enlarge.

[saxitoxin]

Release the hostages...

What hostages? You think there are any left after 7 months of carpet bombing?

[saxitoxin]

Israel has a moral obligation to its people to exterminate Hamas and end the immediate threat. After that, it will have an obligation to finally take responsibility for helping to create it in the first place.

Israel doesn't have the resources to take responsibility. It will cost $50B to rebuild Gaza. Reparations for each deceased noncombatant are a further $35B. That's more than half the entire annual budget of Israel.

A homeless meth addict with three feet of copper wire to his name released cockroaches into your house and then, to get rid of them, he burned your house down killing all your relatives in the process. "Don't worry, he has a moral obligation to buy you a new house ... so it's all good!" I confidently proclaim as he's wrestling a junkyard dog for the scraps of a rotisserie chicken.

[Dukasaur]

I have respected the Japanese precision in many fields, but never delved into their literary offerings before.
However this concise summary and the way it turns a phrase, may prompt some more searching on my part.

Israel, which withdrew from Gaza in 2005, has come full circle with its invasion of that territory in response to the atrocities perpetrated by the Hamas militants.

But, just as the United States invaded Afghanistan in 2001 to oust from power a terrorist militia whose rise it had facilitated via its Pakistani intelligence connections for Afghanistan's stability sake, Israel is tasting the bitter fruits of a divide-and-rule policy that helped midwife the birth of the Hamas "Frankenstein monster" that it is now seeking to subdue.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/commentary ... ed-policy/

Yeah, yeah. Israeli intelligence, in a move that they no doubt are now very much regretting, helped fund the birth of Hamas. Saxi doesn't tire of reminding us of that in this forum, at least two or three times a year, so we can hardly forget. The CIA helped spawn the Taliban, and they very much came to regret that. King Louis XI of France spent thousands of livre on bribes to Dutchmen to spawn the nascent independence movement in the Netherlands. He thought he was hurting Austria, but in the long run it hurt France a lot more, and for the next four centuries (as recently as 1815) they had great reason to regret having helped the Dutch gain independence.

When you spawn a rabid dog, it's your duty to put him down, first and foremost. Afterwards, there will come a time to pay the piper and be sued or pilloried by your neighbours for putting this monster in their midst. But in the immediate moment, you deal with the immediate threat.

Israel has a moral obligation to its people to exterminate Hamas and end the immediate threat. After that, it will have an obligation to finally take responsibility for helping to create it in the first place. There would be some moral value in seeing punishment for the government officials who did that. But it doesn't take priority over killing the monster.

Yeah, and putting a large collection of Jewish people, surrounded by a Muslim population, that hates them, in a city that's regarded as holy to the Muslim people, probably not our smartest decision either.

Jerusalem has been the holy city of the Jews since their early days. (Since 1800 BC, if you believe the religious folk, or at least since 500 BC if you put more trust in secular scholars. Either way, a long, long time.)

Jerusalem has been a holy city of Christians since the very beginning. Most of the important events of the New Testament happen there, including the all-important crucifixion, which is pretty central to Christian identity.

Jerusalem is mentioned 669 times in the Old Testament and 146 times in the New.

By contrast, it is not mentioned even once in the Koran. Not. Once. Not even mentioned in passing. It simply wasn't on Mohammed's radar. It's status as an "Islamic Holy City" simply has no basis; it's entirely a fable cooked up more than 300 years after Mohammed's death.

Just as Christians copycatted the traditions of the Pagans they conquered (stealing things like the Yule tradition from the Saxons) so the Muslim jihadists copycatted the traditions of the Christians they conquered. The story of Mohammed ascending into heaven at Jerusalem was a fairly dumb and uninspired attempt to steal the Christian tradition of the resurrection. There's not a sliver of historical evidence to suggest that Mohammed ever went to Jerusalem, in life or in death.

The al-Aksa mosque was built on the site of Solomon's temple, not for any scriptural or doctrinal reason, but purely as a big "Up Yours!" to the Jews, a proclamation by the Arabs that says, "Hey, it's ours now, and we're going to piss on your holy stomping ground!"

Saying that bulldozing the al-Aksa mosque is some kind of sacrilege against Islam is like saying that bulldozing Santa's Village in New Hampshire is sacrilege against Christianity.

[saxitoxin]

No Jew living in Jerusalem today was alive in 1800 BC.

The majority (90%+) of Jews living in Jerusalem are not related to anyone who ever owned one square foot of property in Jerusalem in the 1000 year period between 1048 and 1948. The majority (90%+) of Palestinians are.

If you abandon a place, you can't come back after ONE THOUSAND YEARS and instantly restore all rights of possession as if you'd never left.

[Dukasaur]

No Jew living in Jerusalem today was alive in 1800 BC.

The majority (90%+) of Jews living in Jerusalem are not related to anyone who ever owned one square foot of property in Jerusalem in the 1000 year period between 1048 and 1948. The majority (90%+) of Palestinians are.

If you abandon a place, you can't come back after ONE THOUSAND YEARS and instantly restore all rights of possession as if you'd never left.

The question wasn't about whether Jerusalem contains close relatives of the Arabs. DDS' comment was based on the myth that Jerusalem is a "Holy City" of the Arabs, which of course it is, just like Santa's Village is a holy shrine of Christianity.

[Votanic]

No Jew living in Jerusalem today was alive in 1800 BC.

The majority (90%+) of Jews living in Jerusalem are not related to anyone who ever owned one square foot of property in Jerusalem in the 1000 year period between 1048 and 1948. The majority (90%+) of Palestinians are.

If you abandon a place, you can't come back after ONE THOUSAND YEARS and instantly restore all rights of possession as if you'd never left.

The question wasn't about whether Jerusalem contains close relatives of the Arabs. DDS' comment was based on the myth that Jerusalem is a "Holy City" of the Arabs, which of course it is, just like Santa's Village is a holy shrine of Christianity.

Do elaborate on your partisan religious beliefs, Duk.
As somehow, through Divine (?) Wisdom (??) perhaps, you seem able to determine what is truly 'holy' and what is only falsely so.

[saxitoxin]

No Jew living in Jerusalem today was alive in 1800 BC.

The majority (90%+) of Jews living in Jerusalem are not related to anyone who ever owned one square foot of property in Jerusalem in the 1000 year period between 1048 and 1948. The majority (90%+) of Palestinians are.

If you abandon a place, you can't come back after ONE THOUSAND YEARS and instantly restore all rights of possession as if you'd never left.

The question wasn't about whether Jerusalem contains close relatives of the Arabs. DDS' comment was based on the myth that Jerusalem is a "Holy City" of the Arabs, which of course it is, just like Santa's Village is a holy shrine of Christianity.

First, the PA government is secular, not Islamic, and includes Christians.

Second, Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem. Jesus is an Islamic prophet.

Third, Mohammed ended his Night Ride in Jerusalem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buraq

[bigtoughralf]

Fourth, neither the Torah nor the Quran contains anything that could be used to justify a genocide being carried out by war criminals in 2024.

[bigtoughralf]

That said, it is reassuring to see that Duk doesn't just know more about international humanitarian law than the UN and human rights NGOs, but he also knows more about Islam than the world's imams and Islamic scholars.

We in OT are truly lucky to have such an oracle available for us to study at the feet of.

[bigtoughralf]

The Irish government has now formally recognised Palestine as a nation, with Spain and Norway to shortly follow suit:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0522/145053 ... cognition/

To date it is only 'Western' countries that have refused to do so, worryied about undermining the US's Israeli lapdog. The ongoing genocide in Gaza has forced many to rethink their allegiance to the brutal apartheid state. Ireland, Spain and Norway are likely to be followed by others.

[Lonous]

If that happens, we can most likely expect China to make a formal statement and increase their vocal support for the Palestinians.
They currently do not consider Hamas to be a terror group, and have recognized Palestine as a state since 1988.

[saxitoxin]

Congressman Massie won his primary reelection today with 76% of the vote despite AIPAC dumping a ton of cash against him. This might give a green light to other Republicans to stop carrying water for Israel.

The day the U.S. gravy train stops is the day before Israel ceases being a viable state. The Democrats have already effectively withdrawn. Only the GOP is stopping the inevitable.

"Under these terms I surrender Jerusalem."

[Dukasaur]

No Jew living in Jerusalem today was alive in 1800 BC.

The majority (90%+) of Jews living in Jerusalem are not related to anyone who ever owned one square foot of property in Jerusalem in the 1000 year period between 1048 and 1948. The majority (90%+) of Palestinians are.

If you abandon a place, you can't come back after ONE THOUSAND YEARS and instantly restore all rights of possession as if you'd never left.

The question wasn't about whether Jerusalem contains close relatives of the Arabs. DDS' comment was based on the myth that Jerusalem is a "Holy City" of the Arabs, which of course it is, just like Santa's Village is a holy shrine of Christianity.

Do elaborate on your partisan religious beliefs, Duk.
As somehow, through Divine (?) Wisdom (??) perhaps, you seem able to determine what is truly 'holy' and what is only falsely so.

I don't think anything is "truly" holy, if you mean "beloved by god", since I think the idea of a god is an absurdity.

Nonetheless, while the theological underpinnings of all religions are nonsense, there's no denying that religions exist as a cultural and historical force which shapes their people.

From there, it doesn't require any "Divine Wisdom", just a keen study of history, to evaluate the importance of the places in their origin stories.

[saxitoxin]

Meanwhile, average Israelis are Big Mad they can't perform animal sacrifices ...

A young Jewish Israeli woman tried to enter the Temple Mount compound in Jerusalem’s Old City with a small goat hidden under her dress, Army Radio reports.

The woman — pretending to be pregnant — attracted the attention of police officers after noises were heard and movement was noticed under her dress.

The woman was arrested, but the goat died of suffocation, Army Radio says.

In recent years, religious groups have increasingly sought to carry out animal sacrifices at the flashpoint Jerusalem holy site, as performed in biblical times.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-may-22-2024/

[Pack Rat]

Meanwhile, average Israelis are Big Mad they can't perform animal sacrifices ...

A young Jewish Israeli woman tried to enter the Temple Mount compound in Jerusalem’s Old City with a small goat hidden under her dress, Army Radio reports.

The woman — pretending to be pregnant — attracted the attention of police officers after noises were heard and movement was noticed under her dress.

The woman was arrested, but the goat died of suffocation, Army Radio says.

In recent years, religious groups have increasingly sought to carry out animal sacrifices at the flashpoint Jerusalem holy site, as performed in biblical times.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-may-22-2024/

Hmm, Kristi Noem?

[bigtoughralf]

After the UN's ICJ ordered Israel to stop its Rafah offensive, and Israel ignored it, EU foreign ministers have begun talks about sanctioning Israel:

http://www.rte.ie/news/middle-east/2024 ... palestine/

These include personal sanctions against Israeli leaders implicit in its ongoing war crimes in Gaza as well as the violence it continues to orchestrate in the West Ban, on top of EU countries' existing embargoes preventing weapons being sold to the Israeli government.

[Pack Rat]

Release the remaining hostages (live and dead).

[HitRed]

U.S. Gaza pier knocked out of action by God.

2 ships grounded
1 pier broken

I make the waves churn. I make the sky darken. They [Palestinians] are my enemies. - God

[Votanic]

U.S. Gaza pier knocked out of action by God.

2 ships grounded
1 pier broken

I make the waves churn. I make the sky darken. They [Palestinians] are my enemies. - God

So... all these quotes come from a special version of scripture that God (?) puts directly into your head, right, Red?

[mookiemcgee]

If Jesus was alive today what kind of gun do you think would be his favorite?

inb4 Votanic says nailgun

[Dukasaur]

If Jesus was alive today what kind of gun do you think would be his favorite?

inb4 Votanic says nailgun

[mookiemcgee]

I like this answer! This article that popped up when i googled is Gene Simmons religious seemed fitting to add...

https://www.loudersound.com/features/th ... ne-simmons