Men, Women, Religion, and Arguments

[bedub1]

I heard a long time ago about Men and Women arguing. During an argument men keep going further and further into logic, reason, facts, and examples. The women keep going further and further into feelings, emotions, fairness. This is why the arguments rarely get settled.

This got me thinking about religious arguments. You can't argue with religious people, because they aren't logical. Religion by definition isn't based in logic, reason, examination, or common sense. It is based on Faith. Faith is "belief that is not based on proof." If religions weren't based on Faith, and were instead based on logic, reason, examination etc, they would be called Science.

Thus, Religion is illogical, and does nothing more than to deprive people of the ability to think and learn on their own. It hinders growth, expansion and progress, and keeps people stupid and living in the dark ages.

The essence of Christianity is told to us in the Garden of Eden history. The fruit that was forbidden was on the Tree of Knowledge. The subtext is, All the suffering you have is because you wanted to find out what was going on. You could be in the Garden of Eden if you had just kept your fucking mouth shut and hadn't asked any questions.

[Lootifer]

Inb4 non-thieism is a faith (predicting j9b)

[Timminz]

I disagree.

[Timminz]

Props on the Frank quote, though.

[Night Strike]

I heard a long time ago about Men and Women arguing. During an argument men keep going further and further into logic, reason, facts, and examples. The women keep going further and further into feelings, emotions, fairness. This is why the arguments rarely get settled.

Seems like a better analogy for the differences between conservatives and liberals: conservatives argue on logic and the rule of law while liberals appeal to emotion.

The essence of Christianity is told to us in the Garden of Eden history. The fruit that was forbidden was on the Tree of Knowledge. The subtext is, All the suffering you have is because you wanted to find out what was going on. You could be in the Garden of Eden if you had just kept your fucking mouth shut and hadn't asked any questions.

This quote is quite telling about how non-Christians misinterpret the Bible and then try to use their interpretations to denounce Christians. Adam and Eve were forbidden to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (By the way, why is the rest of the tree's name left out of his argument? My guess is to push his agenda.) because it was the only rule they were required to follow. They were supposed to be in communion with God and had no reason to know about the evil of Satan because they were perfect creations. Instead, they became greedy and were tricked by saying they would be like God if they ate from the tree. In reality, they had sinned against God and were separated from Him. The tree wasn't forbidding knowledge, it was protecting them from the harms of being aware of and following evil.

[Lootifer]

Seems like a better analogy for the differences between conservatives and liberals: conservatives argue on logic and the rule of law while liberals appeal to emotion.

Arent you the one with the emotional attachment to the sanctity of marrige?

The tree wasn't forbidding knowledge, it was protecting them from the harms of being aware of and following evil.

Ironic considering you get so angry when "freedoms" are encroached upon.

[pimpdave]

Seems like a better analogy for the differences between conservatives and liberals: conservatives argue on logic and the rule of law while liberals appeal to emotion.

Arent you the one with the emotional attachment to the sanctity of marrige?

Haha, yeah, posted it before I could.

This might be the most hilariously stupid comment Night Strike's ever made.

[Night Strike]

Seems like a better analogy for the differences between conservatives and liberals: conservatives argue on logic and the rule of law while liberals appeal to emotion.

Arent you the one with the emotional attachment to the sanctity of marrige?

Funny how I have one issue that's marginally emotion based, yet liberals argue every point on the basis of emotion. Republicans wanting to push grandma off the cliff, wanting dirty air and water, wanting to take money away from single mothers, people dying in the streets, and on and on and on.

The tree wasn't forbidding knowledge, it was protecting them from the harms of being aware of and following evil.

Ironic considering you get so angry when "freedoms" are encroached upon.

My arguments are always in the context of what the federal government is or is not allowed to do. Considering you live in New Zealand, I wouldn't expect you to understand what the US Constitution does or does not allow our federal government to do.

This might be the most hilariously stupid comment Night Strike's ever made.

Then I've done a pretty impressive job. If this is my stupidest comment and the vast majority of your comments are WAY more stupid (like your absolute hatred of the Tea Party), what does that have to say about you?

[pimpdave]

I don't hate the Tea Party, I'm just very concerned by their hatred for black people (as well as people with Parkinson's disease) and declared intent to kill anyone who disagrees with them. I think the Tea Party Death Squads must be stopped immediately and their participants finally brought to justice, for the good of all Americans.

[Night Strike]

I don't hate the Tea Party, I'm just very concerned by their hatred for black people (as well as people with Parkinson's disease) and declared intent to kill anyone who disagrees with them. I think the Tea Party Death Squads must be stopped immediately and their participants finally brought to justice, for the good of all Americans.

The Tea Party doesn't hate black people. They hate big government. And they definitely don't want to kill anybody. Just shows how delusional you are.

[Lootifer]

Funny how I have one issue that's marginally emotion based, yet liberals argue every point on the basis of emotion. Republicans wanting to push grandma off the cliff, wanting dirty air and water, wanting to take money away from single mothers, people dying in the streets, and on and on and on.

Dont you have an emotional attachment to the constitution?
Don't you have an emotional attachment to personal freedom?
Don't you have an emotional attachment the existence of god?
Do I need to go on?

Just because you lack the emotional attachment to other peoples welfare, doesnt mean you are some kind of logic mastermind. Get over yourself, you're starting to sound like John.

My arguments are always in the context of what the federal government is or is not allowed to do. Considering you live in New Zealand, I wouldn't expect you to understand what the US Constitution does or does not allow our federal government to do.

Don't underestimate how much i've learned simply by reading these forums (and associated linked information), a lot of which I give you credit for; you mention something, I tend to go look it up.

But are you denying the fact that you are happy with god taking your freedoms but are angry when the state does it? It's a fair enough opinion, I was just making a comment on the irony of it, i think you need to settle down, having an contradictory [yet valid i guess, up to you] opinion isnt the end of the world.

Haha and you last comment to PD is great, i for one am very glad you still fail to "get it".

[pimpdave]

The Tea Party doesn't hate black people. They hate big government. And they definitely don't want to kill anybody. Just shows how delusional you are.

Yes they do.

[rdsrds2120]

Seems like a better analogy for the differences between conservatives and liberals: conservatives argue on logic and the rule of law while liberals appeal to emotion.

Arent you the one with the emotional attachment to the sanctity of marrige?

Funny how I have one issue that's marginally emotion based, yet liberals argue every point on the basis of emotion. Republicans wanting to push grandma off the cliff, wanting dirty air and water, wanting to take money away from single mothers, people dying in the streets, and on and on and on.

This is done on both sides, and individual party's aren't wholly flawed, just the extremists/mudslingers/propaganda within them. Your claim/implication that only conservatives argue on logic and rule of law while only liberals appeal to emotion is extremely misinformed.

You keep making vast umbrella statements, and it makes it hard to read what you're saying and take it at face value.

-rd

[bedub1]

Hey guys can we get back on topic please?

Props on the Frank quote, though.

I have only recently (last 6 years) be introduced to Frank. I have much to learn and listen to, but what I've heard/seen he's either crazy or awesome or perhaps awesome crazy.

[pimpdave]

Yo, Zappa was a genius. That word's used far to often, but it really applies to him.

He was definitely not crazy.

[Night Strike]

The Tea Party doesn't hate black people. They hate big government. And they definitely don't want to kill anybody. Just shows how delusional you are.

Yes they do.

It's amazing how you use one random picture to justify your worldview. What about all the other hundreds of thousands of people who have attended Tea Party rallies and have no care about a person race? What about the thousands of black people who have attended Tea Party rallies and support the group?

[Lootifer]

Heh, ole PS is just as guilty as PD of that kind of behaviour NS.

ps: PS/PD/NS/etc etc... Yeh im lazy...

[bedub1]

The essence of Christianity is told to us in the Garden of Eden history. The fruit that was forbidden was on the Tree of Knowledge. The subtext is, All the suffering you have is because you wanted to find out what was going on. You could be in the Garden of Eden if you had just kept your fucking mouth shut and hadn't asked any questions.

This quote is quite telling about how non-Christians misinterpret the Bible and then try to use their interpretations to denounce Christians. Adam and Eve were forbidden to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (By the way, why is the rest of the tree's name left out of his argument? My guess is to push his agenda.) because it was the only rule they were required to follow. They were supposed to be in communion with God and had no reason to know about the evil of Satan because they were perfect creations. Instead, they became greedy and were tricked by saying they would be like God if they ate from the tree. In reality, they had sinned against God and were separated from Him. The tree wasn't forbidding knowledge, it was protecting them from the harms of being aware of and following evil.

I think the lesson from the story is this: Humans are curious, they investigate in order to learn. God declares knowledge and learning are bad, and punishes his creation for all of eternity for daring to learn.

I find that religions continue to put forth this idea.

EDIT: See...i try to use logic and reason to counter your argument that is build on the sands of faith.

[pimpdave]

It's amazing how you use one random picture to justify your worldview. What about all the other hundreds of thousands of people who have attended Tea Party rallies and have no care about a person race? What about the thousands of black people who have attended Tea Party rallies and support the group?

[Night Strike]

The essence of Christianity is told to us in the Garden of Eden history. The fruit that was forbidden was on the Tree of Knowledge. The subtext is, All the suffering you have is because you wanted to find out what was going on. You could be in the Garden of Eden if you had just kept your fucking mouth shut and hadn't asked any questions.

This quote is quite telling about how non-Christians misinterpret the Bible and then try to use their interpretations to denounce Christians. Adam and Eve were forbidden to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (By the way, why is the rest of the tree's name left out of his argument? My guess is to push his agenda.) because it was the only rule they were required to follow. They were supposed to be in communion with God and had no reason to know about the evil of Satan because they were perfect creations. Instead, they became greedy and were tricked by saying they would be like God if they ate from the tree. In reality, they had sinned against God and were separated from Him. The tree wasn't forbidding knowledge, it was protecting them from the harms of being aware of and following evil.

I think the lesson from the story is this: Humans are curious, they investigate in order to learn. God declares knowledge and learning are bad, and punishes his creation for all of eternity for daring to learn.

I find that religions continue to put forth this idea.

Except God did not punish them for wanting to learn. They were punished because they disobeyed the second of the only two rules he gave them (the first rule was to tend to the entire garden). They thought they could be just like God, and no person can be like God. God created the world and gave us the ability to learn about everything he has created. That's why that author you quoted started with a false argument when he doesn't even state the full name of the tree he's referring to.

[bedub1]

The essence of Christianity is told to us in the Garden of Eden history. The fruit that was forbidden was on the Tree of Knowledge. The subtext is, All the suffering you have is because you wanted to find out what was going on. You could be in the Garden of Eden if you had just kept your fucking mouth shut and hadn't asked any questions.

This quote is quite telling about how non-Christians misinterpret the Bible and then try to use their interpretations to denounce Christians. Adam and Eve were forbidden to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (By the way, why is the rest of the tree's name left out of his argument? My guess is to push his agenda.) because it was the only rule they were required to follow. They were supposed to be in communion with God and had no reason to know about the evil of Satan because they were perfect creations. Instead, they became greedy and were tricked by saying they would be like God if they ate from the tree. In reality, they had sinned against God and were separated from Him. The tree wasn't forbidding knowledge, it was protecting them from the harms of being aware of and following evil.

I think the lesson from the story is this: Humans are curious, they investigate in order to learn. God declares knowledge and learning are bad, and punishes his creation for all of eternity for daring to learn.

I find that religions continue to put forth this idea.

Except God did not punish them for wanting to learn. They were punished because they disobeyed the second of the only two rules he gave them (the first rule was to tend to the entire garden). They thought they could be just like God, and no person can be like God. God created the world and gave us the ability to learn about everything he has created. That's why that author you quoted started with a false argument when he doesn't even state the full name of the tree he's referring to.

God punished them because they disobeyed the second rule which was "no learning". No trying to become greater, to imitate god. The tree of Knowledge of good and evil, of right and wrong, of good ideas and bad ideas, of things that work, and things that don't, of true, and false, of the right answer on the test, and the wrong answer. We were to remain ignorant and sheep, to graze in the fields. We disobeyed god and became people. Disobeying god is the best thing mankind ever did. God is an asshole, and should be told to f*ck off. The entire idea and concept are a blight on society which inhibits our ability to reach our maximum potential.

[patches70]

Yeah, cause human beings are so peaceful and non violent now that we are smart......

[patches70]

You can disobey God but you sure as hell better not disobey the Government or what society dictates what is right and wrong!

Who needs God when the Thought Police are on the scene.

[BigBallinStalin]

Heh, ole PS is just as guilty as PD of that kind of behaviour NS.

ps: PS/PD/NS/etc etc... Yeh im lazy...

NO! You're more efficient.

[Night Strike]

God punished them because they disobeyed the second rule which was "no learning". No trying to become greater, to imitate god. The tree of Knowledge of good and evil, of right and wrong, of good ideas and bad ideas, of things that work, and things that don't, of true, and false, of the right answer on the test, and the wrong answer. We were to remain ignorant and sheep, to graze in the fields. We disobeyed god and became people. Disobeying god is the best thing mankind ever did. God is an asshole, and should be told to f*ck off. The entire idea and concept are a blight on society which inhibits our ability to reach our maximum potential.

They could learn anything they wanted to learn because they were in direct communion with God. Your second statement provides the exact reason why they were punished for their sin: they had a desire to imitate God. People are God's creation and it is the ultimate expression of vanity to think that we can be God. That is the underlying sin they committed in violating the simple command of don't eat fruit off this one individual tree. They had plenty of other food sources available to eat from in the garden, but they thought the tree would make them like God and chose to eat from it. Instead, it drove them from the presence of God. You can tell God to "f*ck off" all you want, but no person or society can EVER reach their true maximum potential without Him.