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UN to investigate plight of Native Americans

Postby Symmetry on Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:25 pm

UN to investigate plight of US Native Americans for first time

The UN human rights inquiry will focus on the living conditions of the 2.7 million Native Americans living in the US


The UN is to conduct an investigation into the plight of US Native Americans, the first such mission in its history.

The human rights inquiry led by James Anaya, the UN special rapporteur on indigenous peoples, is scheduled to begin on Monday.

Many of the country's estimated 2.7 million Native Americans live in federally recognised tribal areas which are plagued with unemployment, alcoholism, high suicide rates, incest and other social problems.

The UN mission is potentially contentious, with some US conservatives likely to object to international interference in domestic matters. Since being appointed as rapporteur in 2008, Anaya has focused on natives of Central and South America.

A UN statement said: "This will be the first mission to the US by an independent expert designated by the UN human rights council to report on the rights of the indigenous peoples."

Anaya, a University of Arizona professor of human rights, said: "I will examine the situation of the American Indian/Native American, Alaska Native and Hawaiian peoples against the background of the United States' endorsement of the UN declaration on the rights of indigenous peoples."

The US signed up in 2010 to the declaration, which establishes minimum basic rights for indigenous people globally.


This should be interesting. Will the US stand by its endorsement of the declaration when the spotlight comes on its own indigenous peoples?
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Re: UN to investigate plight of Native Americans

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:28 pm

What are "minimum basic rights"? And if such rights have been enforced yet certain unfavorable outcomes still happen, then what?
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Re: UN to investigate plight of Native Americans

Postby Symmetry on Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:32 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:What are "minimum basic rights"? And if such rights have been enforced yet certain unfavorable outcomes still happen, then what?


The Declaration is Here (PDF)
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Re: UN to investigate plight of Native Americans

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:45 pm

After reading page 4 and 5, it seems like the American Indians should be given their own state within the US.


And all the land which was taken from them.

Hmm....

But then that would violate the rights of many others who have been living on that land.



I don't mind them being completely cut off from the US federal government, so that they have the right to self-determination and the burden of governing themselves. I wonder if their future laws would allow nuclear power plants to be built there, then they could charge nearby States for electricity. They could be the next "Saudi Arabia" of nuclear power.
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Re: UN to investigate plight of Native Americans

Postby Symmetry on Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:56 pm

As a kind of side note, and I'm probably derailing my own thread early (but, meh, twas just a posted article), I was reading about the movement to make English the national language of the US. My first thought was what about indigenous languages, specifically Navajo came to mind. A while back I read about the use of Navajo during WWII for communications. I kind of wondered if Navajo, and other indigenous languages would be recognised as official languages of the US too.

Meandering thoughts...
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Re: UN to investigate plight of Native Americans

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:00 pm

I wonder if the US will cooperate with the investigation or refuse to permit the inspectors entry into the country, like the UK did when the UN launched an investigation into the plight of the Irish in 1998 and, again, in 2003?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/72276.stm
http://www.4ni.co.uk/northern_ireland_news.asp?id=17331

Should be an interesting case to follow.
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Re: UN to investigate plight of Native Americans

Postby Symmetry on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:07 pm

saxitoxin wrote:I wonder if the US will cooperate with the investigation or refuse to permit the inspectors entry into the country, like the UK did when the UN launched an investigation into the plight of the Irish in 1998 and, again, in 2003?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/72276.stm
http://www.4ni.co.uk/northern_ireland_news.asp?id=17331

Should be an interesting case to follow.


Almost nothing in your post appears to be correct, but I, personally, would welcome an independent investigation.
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Re: UN to investigate plight of Native Americans

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:09 pm

Symmetry wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:I wonder if the US will cooperate with the investigation or refuse to permit the inspectors entry into the country, like the UK did when the UN launched an investigation into the plight of the Irish in 1998 and, again, in 2003?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/72276.stm
http://www.4ni.co.uk/northern_ireland_news.asp?id=17331

Should be an interesting case to follow.


Almost nothing in your post appears to be correct, but I, personally, would welcome an independent investigation.


You should write your government to protest their policy of refusing to let the UN investigate the Chechnya of the North Sea, then.

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Re: UN to investigate plight of Native Americans

Postby Symmetry on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:18 pm

What's got your goat Saxi? You seem so quick to leap on my posts of late, indeed to tailor your sigs toward me. Mostly your replies seem to be along the lines of "But what about the UK/Europe..." rather than addressing the topic, although you often make another topic about the UK or Europe at the same time.

It just seems to be getting a little obsessive at this point. Like a fixation.
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Re: UN to investigate plight of Native Americans

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:23 pm

Symmetry wrote:What's got your goat Saxi? You seem so quick to leap on my posts of late, indeed to tailor your sigs toward me. Mostly your replies seem to be along the lines of "But what about the UK/Europe..." rather than addressing the topic, although you often make another topic about the UK or Europe at the same time.

It just seems to be getting a little obsessive at this point. Like a fixation.


You seem to be a little defensive. All I did was comment that I hope the US allows UN investigators in, that some western countries have a policy of blocking them out. Apparently that set you off, for reasons about which I'm unclear, and you became a little off-kilter, started swinging wildly and doing your normal schtick about unseen forces conspiring to get you or whatever it is.
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Re: UN to investigate plight of Native Americans

Postby Symmetry on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:26 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:What's got your goat Saxi? You seem so quick to leap on my posts of late, indeed to tailor your sigs toward me. Mostly your replies seem to be along the lines of "But what about the UK/Europe..." rather than addressing the topic, although you often make another topic about the UK or Europe at the same time.

It just seems to be getting a little obsessive at this point. Like a fixation.


You seem to be a little defensive. All I did was comment that I hope the US allows UN investigators in, that some western countries have a policy of blocking them out. Apparently that set you off, for reasons about which I'm unclear, and you went a little off-kilter and started swinging wildly and doing your normal schtick about unseen forces conspiring to get you or whatever it is.


Then we can consider it settled? No more weird sigs targeting me by name specifically? No more thread hijackings? We can discuss the UN investigation of the plight of Native Americans, its potential ramifications, and whether it will accomplish anything?

That copacetic?
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Re: UN to investigate plight of Native Americans

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:28 pm

Symmetry wrote:We can discuss the UN investigation of the plight of Native Americans, its potential ramifications, and whether it will accomplish anything?


That's the only thing I'm here to discuss.

So, do you think the US will admit the UN inspectors or will they try to block them like the UK and Cambodia did?
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Re: UN to investigate plight of Native Americans

Postby Symmetry on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:36 pm

Difficult to tell, some of the states he'll be visiting are deeply conservative, so I would expect that access to certain records might well be denied. When I lived in NY, a pretty liberal state, there was a fair amount of debate about some of the things he's looking at- repatriation of remains and sacred artifacts for example.

Worth noting that the guy is pushing for US legislation in accordance with the declaration. Aside from the Indigenous People aspect, there will be tough opposition from those who oppose the UN in general.

I think BBS asked the right question in his reply- what will happen if the US doesn't comply?
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Re: UN to investigate plight of Native Americans

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:46 pm

Symmetry wrote:I think BBS asked the right question in his reply- what will happen if the US doesn't comply?


After Irish President Patrick Hillery requested UN peacekeeping troops be introduced into Ulster, and the UK refused to comply, the question kind of petered out as the UN decided they didn't want to bomb the UK into obeying international law. And the stakes were higher there than here (people being slaughtered in the streets vs. inadequate funding on alcohol treatment programs). So, based on that precedent, probably nothing will happen?
Last edited by saxitoxin on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UN to investigate plight of Native Americans

Postby Symmetry on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:50 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:I think BBS asked the right question in his reply- what will happen if the US doesn't comply?


After Irish President Patrick Hillery requested UN peacekeeping troops be introduced into Ulster, and the UK refused to comply, the question kind of petered out. So, based on precedent, probably nothing will happen.


So, you're not gonna give up on the derailing/baiting line? There does seem to be something going on with you with regards to my posts. I do think it would clear the air if you just said it rather than doing this passive-aggressive trollery.
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Re: UN to investigate plight of Native Americans

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:53 pm

Symmetry wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:I think BBS asked the right question in his reply- what will happen if the US doesn't comply?


After Irish President Patrick Hillery requested UN peacekeeping troops be introduced into Ulster, and the UK refused to comply, the question kind of petered out. So, based on precedent, probably nothing will happen.


So, you're not gonna give up on the derailing/baiting line? There does seem to be something going on with you with regards to my posts. I do think it would clear the air if you just said it rather than doing this passive-aggressive trollery.


le sigh

If there is a list of "banned words" we're not permitted to use in your threads, it would be helpful if you posted them somewhere so we don't have to just guess at what's going to set you off at any given moment.
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Re: UN to investigate plight of Native Americans

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:58 pm

It's useful to use the UK experience as a benchmark of comparison. If we couldn't compare past outcomes with probable ones in the future, then we couldn't say much that would be meaningful or useful.

Both the US and the UK sit on the UNSC, and both have or might have committed crimes against international law, (which we individuals have practically zero power in implementing and enforcing). Then, the UK just ignores the UN's pleas for whatever, and the issue diffuses. If I had to guess, the same will happen with the UN and the US.
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Re: UN to investigate plight of Native Americans

Postby Symmetry on Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:02 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:I think BBS asked the right question in his reply- what will happen if the US doesn't comply?


After Irish President Patrick Hillery requested UN peacekeeping troops be introduced into Ulster, and the UK refused to comply, the question kind of petered out. So, based on precedent, probably nothing will happen.


So, you're not gonna give up on the derailing/baiting line? There does seem to be something going on with you with regards to my posts. I do think it would clear the air if you just said it rather than doing this passive-aggressive trollery.


le sigh

If there is a list of "banned words" we're not permitted to use in your threads, it would be helpful if you posted them somewhere so we don't have to just guess at what's going to set you off at any given moment.


Roughly, tell me, given that you feel I have a hair-trigger temper, and that I've asked you not to derail the topic, how exactly did you think I would react to your baiting and derailing?

You seem to want to have it both ways- to say that you know I don't react well to your behaviour, and to also act surprised when I find it annoying.

I've been pretty diplomatic I think.
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Re: UN to investigate plight of Native Americans

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:15 pm

How is it a derailment if it's extremely useful to the topic? We can't talk about how other countries of similar power handled these UN problems?
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Re: UN to investigate plight of Native Americans

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:20 pm

Symmetry wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:I think BBS asked the right question in his reply- what will happen if the US doesn't comply?


After Irish President Patrick Hillery requested UN peacekeeping troops be introduced into Ulster, and the UK refused to comply, the question kind of petered out. So, based on precedent, probably nothing will happen.


So, you're not gonna give up on the derailing/baiting line? There does seem to be something going on with you with regards to my posts. I do think it would clear the air if you just said it rather than doing this passive-aggressive trollery.


le sigh

If there is a list of "banned words" we're not permitted to use in your threads, it would be helpful if you posted them somewhere so we don't have to just guess at what's going to set you off at any given moment.


Roughly, tell me, given that you feel I have a hair-trigger temper, and that I've asked you not to derail the topic, how exactly did you think I would react to your baiting and derailing?


Threads evolve, different topics are explored, issues juxtaposed. You seem fine with all that except there are certain "no go" areas that we're not permitted to mention. I can't read your mind. If there are issues that are likely to throw you into fits of hysteria please just tell us and we'll try to avoid them. I think we're only just asking you act a bit more sanely than has been your M.O. to-date.
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Re: UN to investigate plight of Native Americans

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:21 pm

Anyway, back to the topic of the thread.

I saw that 28% of American-Indians are living in poverty, which is atrocious. That's the same level of poverty in Wales. It's totally unacceptable for a nation as rich as the U.S. to have 28% of an ethnic group as bad-off as the average Welshman.

Fortunately for the UK, France and Germany have announced they will be sending a third round of foreign aid to Wales. What is the solution of American Indians?

ed: corrected badly formed links
Last edited by saxitoxin on Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:24 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: UN to investigate plight of Native Americans

Postby Symmetry on Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:22 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:How is it a derailment if it's extremely useful to the topic? We can't talk about how other countries of similar power handled these UN problems?


It's not the same problem, or even remotely similar. As I said, I would welcome a UN investigation into the Troubles, especially where the UK has been lacking, but it's a different set of issues. Saxi's post and his links say very different things, and are unrelated to the topic.
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Re: UN to investigate plight of Native Americans

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:25 pm

Symmetry wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:How is it a derailment if it's extremely useful to the topic? We can't talk about how other countries of similar power handled these UN problems?


It's not the same problem, or even remotely similar. As I said, I would welcome a UN investigation into the Troubles, especially where the UK has been lacking, but it's a different set of issues.


I'll agree on this point to a degree. On the one-hand you have roving death squads and summary executions and secret trials, and on the other you have accusations that alcohol treatment programs haven't been adequately funded.
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Re: UN to investigate plight of Native Americans

Postby Symmetry on Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:45 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:How is it a derailment if it's extremely useful to the topic? We can't talk about how other countries of similar power handled these UN problems?


It's not the same problem, or even remotely similar. As I said, I would welcome a UN investigation into the Troubles, especially where the UK has been lacking, but it's a different set of issues.


I'll agree on this point to a degree. On the one-hand you have roving death squads and summary executions and secret trials, and on the other you have accusations that alcohol treatment programs haven't been adequately funded.


They're Irish, they drink, what can you do?
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Re: UN to investigate plight of Native Americans

Postby Phatscotty on Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:43 pm

Have you ever seen a foreigner more obsessed with America?
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