Sometimes I think the 4th Amendment No Longer Exists...

[Woodruff]

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120720/17450619780/feds-wait-until-late-friday-to-admit-that-yeah-they-ignored-4th-amendment.shtml

[BigBallinStalin]

If only we had a bigger government to punish the smaller government!

[Phatscotty]

Just another late Friday evening...

[saxitoxin]

In the last two years I have had my 3rd Amendment rights violated on two separate occasions.

In each case it was at my penthouse in New York during Fleet Week when I dropped by unannounced to find no fewer than 6 sailors there. My girlfriend, Esmerelda, was also there, however, she was as surprised as I was and told me she'd just been taking a nap for the last few days and hadn't even known they were there and that this was obviously a case of violation of my 3rd Amendment rights. That made sense to me.

I grabbed my old swagger stick from my brag shelf, cracked it over my knee and loudly declared, in a firm and clear voice, that I was a retired Oberstleutnant in the National People's Army of the DDR and I would countenance none of these shenanigans and demanded they identify their commanding officer and the pennant number of their ship. The cowards were obviously afraid of me as they high-tailed it out of there without even putting their pants back on (I'm unclear why they were off in the first place).

I immediately contacted my attorney who threw a bunch of legalese at me claiming I had no case and so forth. What do I pay this guy for? I then called the ACLU and the staff attorney there laughed at me. So, obviously, he's in on the plot.

Has this happened to anyone else?

[MegaProphet]

We've given up so many of our rights in order to feel safe. Sadly I don't think we are actually any safer

[notyou2]

Is the sleeping giant stirring?

[Woodruff]

Is the sleeping giant stirring?

I've already got a prediction on record for this, which has been poo-poo'd by pretty much everyone nonetheless.

[Lootifer]

Wait Saxi, the sailors turned up twice?!?!

Oh dear...

[BigBallinStalin]

In the last two years I have had my 3rd Amendment rights violated on two separate occasions.

In each case it was at my penthouse in New York during Fleet Week when I dropped by unannounced to find no fewer than 6 sailors there. My girlfriend, Esmerelda, was also there, however, she was as surprised as I was and told me she'd just been taking a nap for the last few days and hadn't even known they were there and that this was obviously a case of violation of my 3rd Amendment rights. That made sense to me.

I grabbed my old swagger stick from my brag shelf, cracked it over my knee and loudly declared, in a firm and clear voice, that I was a retired Oberstleutnant in the National People's Army of the DDR and I would countenance none of these shenanigans and demanded they identify their commanding officer and the pennant number of their ship. The cowards were obviously afraid of me as they high-tailed it out of there without even putting their pants back on (I'm unclear why they were off in the first place).

I immediately contacted my attorney who threw a bunch of legalese at me claiming I had no case and so forth. What do I pay this guy for? I then called the ACLU and the staff attorney there laughed at me. So, obviously, he's in on the plot.

Has this happened to anyone else?

As a matter of fact, this also happened to me--twice!

In the past two years I have also had my 3rd Amendment rights violated on two separate occasions.

In each case it was at this penthouse in New York during Fleet Week. I'd just been taking a nap for the last few days, and to my surprise I discovered no fewer than six sailors around me as Mein Herr dropped by unannounced. I immediately explained that our 3rd Amendment rights had obviously been violated, which made sense to him.

He grabbed his old swagger stick from his brag shelf, cracked it over his knee, winced slightly in pain, but quickly recovered with a firm and clear voice: "I was a retired Oberstleutnant in the National People's Army of the DDR, and I would countenance none of these shenanigans! Identify your commanding officer and the pennant number of your ship!" The cowards panicked and scurried away, but they left their pants as a symbol of tribute for Herr Oberstleutnant, who was unclear as to why they were off in the first place.

He immediately contacted his attorney who threw a bunch of legalese at him claiming that he had no case and so forth. After wasting his money on that endeavor, he then called the ACLU and the staff attorney there laughed at him. Last week, I had taken a nap for a few days on that staff attorney's yacht, where no Constitutional rights were violated at that juncture.

Has this happened to anyone else?

[saxitoxin]

BBS, your jocularity is most unwelcome to this serious issue but, sadly, predictable.

See:

Pity the Third Amendment. The other amendments of the United States Constitution's Bill of Rights inspire public adoration and volumes of legal research. Meanwhile, the Third Amendment languishes in comparative oblivion. Is this any way to treat a member of the Bill of Rights?

http://www.tomwbell.com/writings/3rd.html#HI

[BigBallinStalin]

I take no responsibility for my actions because the environment made me do it.

[Woodruff]

Wait Saxi, the sailors turned up twice?!?!

Well, they are sailors, after all...

[PLAYER57832]

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120720/17450619780/feds-wait-until-late-friday-to-admit-that-yeah-they-ignored-4th-amendment.shtml

I think you have read my prior posts voicing concerns myself.

Here is the problem, though. In reality, the "cat is already out of the bag". That is, microsoft and Google can already obtain, already have far more information in far more dangerous ways than the government and with far fewer limits. Most people just click "agree" when they do searches, play games.. and don't really think that much about the consequences. Even those of us who do have little choice if we wish to use the internet... and the internet is now almost a necessity (please note the "almost"). I mean sure, I could possibly do without CC (please.. no.. no... NO ), but I use the internet to pay bills and deal with billing issues, for job searches, to find information not readily available eslewhere (definitely not in the local libraries!), to communicate cheaply and quickly with friends and family far afield, etc.

I don't think its so much that the fourth amendment is broken as that it is quickly no longer applying, except to the government.

[BigBallinStalin]

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120720/17450619780/feds-wait-until-late-friday-to-admit-that-yeah-they-ignored-4th-amendment.shtml

I think you have read my prior posts voicing concerns myself.

Here is the problem, though. In reality, the "cat is already out of the bag". That is, microsoft and Google can already obtain, already have far more information in far more dangerous ways than the government and with far fewer limits.

I had no idea that Microsoft and Google record all your phone calls, order their FBI-, NSA-, CIA-equivalent teams to investigate you, have their DoD-equivalent department wage war on you, have their State Dept.-equivalent spread its propaganda, etc.

Let's compare expenditures, shall we? We could do revenue, but the less dangerous government with allegedly less limits has a comparative advantage in deficit spending. Microsoft and Google can't do this:

US federal government: $3.8 trillion (nominal), 2012
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_spending

Microsoft: $46 bn (hey, and with a profit of ~$20 bn)
http://www.microsoft.com/investor/repor ... index.html

Google: $3.47 bn, 2011
http://www.google.com/finance?fstype=ii&q=NASDAQ:GOOG

Lol. The numbers don't even compare. Think of all the information that the government has on its citizens--and people around the world. What are its limits? Well, it has a monopoly on the legal system--that's convenient. How about those "more dangerous" corporations? Oh, they don't. In fact, they have to use the government's courts.

There's weak limits on government when it comes to collecting information on people--relative to Google and Microsoft. No one is forcing you to use Windows or Google.com, and it's easy to download programs which prohibit Google-analytics and all that from collecting information from you. No such convenient means exist to counter the government collecting information from you.

These two companies simply can't compare in any reasonable manner with the government and its ability to collect information and use it for nefarious purposes.


And if danger is the concern--because we shouldn't be so narrow-minded and only look at danger and use of information, the US government is granted the ability to govern over people, to involuntarily extract your wealth (which Microsoft and Google really can't do, unless you want to argue that they have the power to tax and that it's upheld in Microsoft and Google courts), to put people in prison, to kill people without due process, to imprison people without due process, to invade countries and occupy them for a decade--regardless of their "customer"(voter) preferences.


This is by far the stupidest position you've ever held, PLAYER.

[saxitoxin]

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120720/17450619780/feds-wait-until-late-friday-to-admit-that-yeah-they-ignored-4th-amendment.shtml

I think you have read my prior posts voicing concerns myself.

Here is the problem, though. In reality, the "cat is already out of the bag". That is, microsoft and Google can already obtain, already have far more information in far more dangerous ways than the government and with far fewer limits.

The most dystopian future in which Google misuses your information has your credit rating screwed up and you paying an extra $18 month on your auto loan because your search terms include "bankruptcy laws." The most dystopian future in which the government misuses your information has Obama ordering your 15 year old son to be burned alive in a Hellfire missile strike because you criticized his foreign policy.

The former may happen. The latter happened in 2011.

[Lootifer]

I think we're straying away from the fundamental issue that is why the sailors came around a second time (pun intended).

[BigBallinStalin]

Apparently, Es is an effective marketer of her high quality goods.

[Woodruff]

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120720/17450619780/feds-wait-until-late-friday-to-admit-that-yeah-they-ignored-4th-amendment.shtml

I think you have read my prior posts voicing concerns myself.
Here is the problem, though. In reality, the "cat is already out of the bag". That is, microsoft and Google can already obtain, already have far more information in far more dangerous ways than the government and with far fewer limits. Most people just click "agree" when they do searches, play games.. and don't really think that much about the consequences.

I have absolutely no problem with that. That IS consent, even if it's ignorant consent.

I don't think its so much that the fourth amendment is broken as that it is quickly no longer applying, except to the government.

I'm pretty sure the Fourth Amendment has ONLY EVER applied to the government. That's the problem...they're not applying it.

[PLAYER57832]

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120720/17450619780/feds-wait-until-late-friday-to-admit-that-yeah-they-ignored-4th-amendment.shtml

I think you have read my prior posts voicing concerns myself.

Here is the problem, though. In reality, the "cat is already out of the bag". That is, microsoft and Google can already obtain, already have far more information in far more dangerous ways than the government and with far fewer limits.

The most dystopian future in which Google misuses your information has your credit rating screwed up and you paying an extra $18 month on your auto loan because your search terms include "bankruptcy laws."

Oh, of course you are correct. We don't live in a world in which Microsoft and Google are each essentially manipulating even the very basic information you get, where they have done this so quickly and neatly that even folk like you claim it did not happen, not really (or that you are not impacted by it). Nor have they every sold all the information they collect on sites you visit -- either for material gain or other, less idealistic reasons.

I will say this, though... they don't have to bother with credit ratings.. they just make sure that finding what you want means going through 10 pages of advertisements and other garbage first. The less you "play their game" and "cooperate", the harder it somehow gets.

The most dystopian future in which the government misuses your information has Obama ordering your 15 year old son to be burned alive in a Hellfire missile strike because you criticized his foreign policy.

The former may happen. The latter happened in 2011.

Not really, no.

I make no pretense that government actions in war are all legitimate, but to claim that a 15 year old was targeted by Obama is indeed idiotic.

I could go further, but I won't. Because, of course none of this is really happening or every would in the US of A

[PLAYER57832]

I don't think its so much that the fourth amendment is broken as that it is quickly no longer applying, except to the government.

I'm pretty sure the Fourth Amendment has ONLY EVER applied to the government. That's the problem...they're not applying it.

No, but in the past, searches conducted by others were called "Tresspass" or even "home invasion". The government was the only entity that had any right to such invasion, so only the government specifically required a constitutional amendment.

I am concerned about this, but I am far less concerned about a government who I can elect having this data than I am about a corporation who's only real and true purpose is to make its stockholders money .... and at pretty much all costs, limited only by the integrity of the leaders. (which, thankfully, is still usually limited).

[Woodruff]

I don't think its so much that the fourth amendment is broken as that it is quickly no longer applying, except to the government.

I'm pretty sure the Fourth Amendment has ONLY EVER applied to the government. That's the problem...they're not applying it.

No, but in the past, searches conducted by others were called "Tresspass" or even "home invasion".

This has nothing at all to do with the Constitution.

The government was the only entity that had any right to such invasion, so only the government specifically required a constitutional amendment. I am concerned about this, but I am far less concerned about a government who I can elect having this data than I am about a corporation who's only real and true purpose is to make its stockholders money .... and at pretty much all costs, limited only by the integrity of the leaders. (which, thankfully, is still usually limited).

You're more concerned about intrusion by a corporation than intrusion by the government you're electing that is already controlled by that corporation? There really isn't much difference.

[patches70]

Because, of course none of this is really happening or every would in the US of A

O'rly?

[patches70]

I am concerned about this, but I am far less concerned about a government who I can elect having this data than I am about a corporation who's only real and true purpose is to make its stockholders money .... and at pretty much all costs, limited only by the integrity of the leaders. (which, thankfully, is still usually limited).

The corporation who can attempt to sell you things, or the government who can force, jail and even kill you and who has the police, law and courts on their side?

And you are worried about google?

I don't know about anyone else, but I prefer popup adds over some malignant force of nature that calls itself government who can compel me to do pretty much anything they want. Apparently, government can even make be buy things under threat of fine and/or jail. The government even has the power to indefinitely detain me if they even suspect I may be a "terrorist". A corporation who cannot take my money without my consent (except for the insurance industry it seems), compared to government who forcibly takes money from me every single day of my life.

Ok. Your mind is way out there but I sincerely pray your trust in government is not sorely misplaced.....For my own sake as well as yours.

[PLAYER57832]

Because, of course none of this is really happening or every would in the US of A

O'rly?

sarcasm alert...

[Lootifer]