Troll or Idiot

[Nola_Lifer]

I need some help, what is the difference here? I see troll thrown around a lot but, at times, they don't seem to be a troll.

Idiot

An idiot, dolt, or dullard is a mentally deficient person, or someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way.

an utterly foolish or senseless person

Troll

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

A member of an internet forum who continually harangues and harasses others. Someone with nothing worthwhile to add to a certain conversation, but rather continually thread jacks or changes the subject, as well as thinks every member of the forum is talking about them and only them.

Usually it is very difficult to tell the difference between a troll and somebody who is simply an asshole or an idiot. It is important to note that a troll doesn't always resort to insults. Some of them pretend to hold ideals that are unpopular on a particular website or forum. For example, if one signs up for a forum that is predominately pro-choice and pretends to be pro-life and makes posts in favor of that position that alone could get the same result as just insulting everybody. The best way to spot a troll is to take into consideration how long its posts are. If its posts are short then more than likely you are dealing with a troll. A good troll also doesn't show any signs of anger in their posts so it would be best to keep an eye out for that too. On social networking sites it is much easier to spot trolls. The first way is to look at their profile: if the user has no picture of him/herself then it is most likely a troll. It's also useful to take a look at how old the user's account is. The newer the account is, the more likely it is that they are a troll. Also if this user has contacted you directly on your own page as opposed to a group you are a member of then take that as a tell-tale sign. Usually it is very difficult to tell the difference between a troll and somebody who is simply an asshole or an idiot. It is important to note that a troll doesn't always resort to insults. Some of them pretend to hold ideals that are unpopular on a particular website or forum. For example, if one signs up for a forum that is predominately pro-choice and pretends to be pro-life and makes posts in favor of that position that alone could get the same result as just insulting everybody. The best way to spot a troll is to take into consideration how long its posts are. If its posts are short then more than likely you are dealing with a troll. A good troll also doesn't show any signs of anger in their posts so it would be best to keep an eye out for that too. On social networking sites it is much easier to spot trolls. The first way is to look at their profile: if the user has no picture of him/herself then it is most likely a troll. It's also useful to take a look at how old the user's account is. The newer the account is, the more likely it is that they are a troll. Also if this user has contacted you directly on your own page as opposed to a group you are a member of then take that as a tell-tale sign.

[kentington]

Do you have a specific example? From the lists you provide it is not always cut and dry.
A good troll isn't an idiot, but idiots seem to have similar symptoms to trolls.

[thegreekdog]

Do you have a specific example? From the lists you provide it is not always cut and dry.
A good troll isn't an idiot, but idiots seem to have similar symptoms to trolls.

To put what kentington said another way:

A troll is never an idiot. An idiot can be a troll, but is not purposefully a troll.

[kentington]

Do you have a specific example? From the lists you provide it is not always cut and dry.
A good troll isn't an idiot, but idiots seem to have similar symptoms to trolls.

To put what kentington said another way:

A troll is never an idiot. An idiot can be a troll, but is not purposefully a troll.

Can I hire you as a translator? I can't pay but I will give you chocolate.

[thegreekdog]

Do you have a specific example? From the lists you provide it is not always cut and dry.
A good troll isn't an idiot, but idiots seem to have similar symptoms to trolls.

To put what kentington said another way:

A troll is never an idiot. An idiot can be a troll, but is not purposefully a troll.

Can I hire you as a translator? I can't pay but I will give you chocolate.

What kentington says here is that he likes thegreekdog and will give him free chocolate and Saxibucks.

[Nola_Lifer]

So you can be an idiot that some people think that they are trolling but, in fact, they are just an idiot? I think motivation has a lot to do with the definition of a troll but like you say Ken, a good troll isn't an idiot.

[kentington]

So you can be an idiot that some people think that they are trolling but, in fact, they are just an idiot? I think motivation has a lot to do with the definition of a troll but like you say Ken, a good troll isn't an idiot.

Yeah Nola, INTENT is the biggest the biggest difference. A lot of times an idiot is trying to show how smart they are and end up trolling. A troll will a lot of times play dumb, but their intent is to annoy you and get a response.

[Nola_Lifer]

So you can be an idiot that some people think that they are trolling but, in fact, they are just an idiot? I think motivation has a lot to do with the definition of a troll but like you say Ken, a good troll isn't an idiot.

Yeah Nola, INTENT is the biggest the biggest difference. A lot of times an idiot is trying to show how smart they are and end up trolling. A troll will a lot of times play dumb, but their intent is to annoy you and get a response.

A troll will bait you into a response. So what is worse an idiot or a troll? I dislike both to be honest.

[BigBallinStalin]

An idiot is worse. At least a clever troll has the intellectual capacity to think and be creative.

[Nola_Lifer]

An idiot is worse. At least a clever troll has the intellectual capacity to think and be creative.

Then why are trolls suppose to be kicked and banned, when an idiot is worse?

[BigBallinStalin]

Because those are the arbitrarily written and enforced rules!

Forgive them, for they do not know what they do.

[Army of GOD]

I disagree with thegreek. Trolls can be idiots. Not all of them are though.

[KoolBak]

It would be interesting to make a poll on some of the more prolific posters here.....lol.

[john9blue]

idiots are self-explanatory.

trolls are people who try to provoke a reaction in others. they don't have to be "intelligent" at all; an idiot can follow someone around the forum harassing them and still technically be a "troll".

as a general rule, the better the troll, the less people that realize that that person is a troll.

[Nola_Lifer]

I disagree with thegreek. Trolls can be idiots. Not all of them are though.

I think yall are saying the same thing here, bud. Idiots can be mistaken as troll. Sometimes you'll see a post and be like, "Nah, that dude is trollin, man," but then you realize, "O, this dude is a fuckin idiot. "

It would be interesting to make a poll on some of the more prolific posters here.....lol.

I believe you'd get in trouble for baiting because no one likes being called out as an idiot. I don't think people mind being called a troll.

[Nola_Lifer]

idiots are self-explanatory.

trolls are people who try to provoke a reaction in others. they don't have to be "intelligent" at all; an idiot can follow someone around the forum harassing them and still technically be a "troll".

as a general rule, the better the troll, the less people that realize that that person is a troll.

Sorry for the double post here. Provoking a reaction in a malicious way or just provoking a reaction at all? Cause if you are trying to think critically you are trying to provoke a reaction but in a constructive way, no?

[john9blue]

idiots are self-explanatory.

trolls are people who try to provoke a reaction in others. they don't have to be "intelligent" at all; an idiot can follow someone around the forum harassing them and still technically be a "troll".

as a general rule, the better the troll, the less people that realize that that person is a troll.

Sorry for the double post here. Provoking a reaction in a malicious way or just provoking a reaction at all? Cause if you are trying to think critically you are trying to provoke a reaction but in a constructive way, no?

i'd say maliciously, i.e. provoking a negative reaction

[Nola_Lifer]

idiots are self-explanatory.

trolls are people who try to provoke a reaction in others. they don't have to be "intelligent" at all; an idiot can follow someone around the forum harassing them and still technically be a "troll".

as a general rule, the better the troll, the less people that realize that that person is a troll.

Sorry for the double post here. Provoking a reaction in a malicious way or just provoking a reaction at all? Cause if you are trying to think critically you are trying to provoke a reaction but in a constructive way, no?

i'd say maliciously, i.e. provoking a negative reaction

So what is worse, jon, a troll or an idiot. Maybe that's what the poll should be.

[thegreekdog]

idiots are self-explanatory.

trolls are people who try to provoke a reaction in others. they don't have to be "intelligent" at all; an idiot can follow someone around the forum harassing them and still technically be a "troll".

as a general rule, the better the troll, the less people that realize that that person is a troll.

Sorry for the double post here. Provoking a reaction in a malicious way or just provoking a reaction at all? Cause if you are trying to think critically you are trying to provoke a reaction but in a constructive way, no?

i'd say maliciously, i.e. provoking a negative reaction

So what is worse, jon, a troll or an idiot. Maybe that's what the poll should be.

Well, if we agree that an idiot can be a troll, but not a good troll, then probably idiot right?

I'm changing my view by the way - I now agree with AoG. I marxing love an intelligent troll.

[kentington]

I disagree with thegreek. Trolls can be idiots. Not all of them are though.

I think yall are saying the same thing here, bud. Idiots can be mistaken as troll. Sometimes you'll see a post and be like, "Nah, that dude is trollin, man," but then you realize, "O, this dude is a fuckin idiot. "

It would be interesting to make a poll on some of the more prolific posters here.....lol.

I believe you'd get in trouble for baiting because no one likes being called out as an idiot. I don't think people mind being called a troll.

But there is one element that we are missing. There are funny trolls. They are trolling a thread by taking stuff out of context, off topic, etc. But they do this in an entertaining way. Still a troll, but no one has a problem with it.

[Nola_Lifer]

I disagree with thegreek. Trolls can be idiots. Not all of them are though.

I think yall are saying the same thing here, bud. Idiots can be mistaken as troll. Sometimes you'll see a post and be like, "Nah, that dude is trollin, man," but then you realize, "O, this dude is a fuckin idiot. "

It would be interesting to make a poll on some of the more prolific posters here.....lol.

I believe you'd get in trouble for baiting because no one likes being called out as an idiot. I don't think people mind being called a troll.

But there is one element that we are missing. There are funny trolls. They are trolling a thread by taking stuff out of context, off topic, etc. But they do this in an entertaining way. Still a troll, but no one has a problem with it.

Disagree because everyone could be a troll. Troll do it in a malicious way to evoke a reaction.

idiots are self-explanatory.

trolls are people who try to provoke a reaction in others. they don't have to be "intelligent" at all; an idiot can follow someone around the forum harassing them and still technically be a "troll".

as a general rule, the better the troll, the less people that realize that that person is a troll.

Sorry for the double post here. Provoking a reaction in a malicious way or just provoking a reaction at all? Cause if you are trying to think critically you are trying to provoke a reaction but in a constructive way, no?

i'd say maliciously, i.e. provoking a negative reaction

So what is worse, jon, a troll or an idiot. Maybe that's what the poll should be.

Well, if we agree that an idiot can be a troll, but not a good troll, then probably idiot right?

I'm changing my view by the way - I now agree with AoG. I marxing love an intelligent troll.

O man, that was really marxy of you!

[whitestazn88]

I'll provide some examples so that you understand, but I'll alter the names to protect these members of our community. Note that my list isn't comprehensive, and is merely a reflection of what I see the forum to be, as of today.

troll:
fatronny, fleshpedlertom, sexypoison, militiaofallah, largerichmarx (on occasion), coors_fear (on occasion, mostly he's just being a [edit: jerk] about semantics though), paul8red (as of late, his posting style has been "______ is ______ and I don't like it" and never adds to the conversation, so I consider it trolling, maybe he's just an idiot)

idiot:
darkattack, colton (he doesn't post here anymore right? so i'll use his name), kierkegaard (possibly trolling, but the quality isn't very good, and the lack of a strong english vocabulary leads me to believe that the intent is never to incite. responders generally do so to the idiocy of comments rather than any kind of baiting), participant990857324, and any of the members of the community who are under 16 (i think that includes arubamewtwo, marknewyork, etc)

Then of course there is a lot of grey area. Every one of the newest members of this forum that are posting frequently (in my poor forum memory, the list would be: the chinese guy, huntington, and there's one more but I forget), are probably trolls. If not trolls necessarily, they're definitely former members who have been banned but needed to come up with a persona because their previous posting style has become to familiar. In my opinion, these people are trolls, because they're hiding their true identity and just bullshitting us. I'd rather never have had anyone perma-ed because at least then we could tell who's who. It's no fun when I don't pay enough attention to know who thelion or dancingmustard or whoever else is "gone" has become.

Hopefully my examples are helpful.

Please note that I did not mention woodruff in this post until now, as my reverence towards him combined with my grief of our recent loss means I don't want to place him in any category in my rashness. RIP spock. You'll live long and prosper in my heart.

[BigBallinStalin]

largerichmarx never trolls; he only extols.
darkattack is a troll--apparently so good that you've mistaken him as an idiot.

You forgot to add "blankholymongol77" under troll.

other than that, A+

[whitestazn88]

largerichmarx never trolls; he only extols.
darkattack is a troll--apparently so good that you've mistaken him as an idiot.

You forgot to add "blankholymongol77" under troll.

other than that, A+

really? I swear some of largerichmarx's comments go into the trollzone, but you might be right, you probably read more of his lengthy posts than I do, I just catch the quips here and there.

as for darkattack... i personally think he/she is an idiot, but again, I skip a lot of his posts, so I don't always get the whole picture.

like I said, my list reflects how I see the forum. and I did have blankholymongol77 (pretty sure you mean black, but I guess blank also works), it was under "myself".

[Nola_Lifer]

I'll provide some examples so that you understand, but I'll alter the names to protect these members of our community. Note that my list isn't comprehensive, and is merely a reflection of what I see the forum to be, as of today.

troll:
fatronny, fleshpedlertom, sexypoison, militiaofallah, largerichmarx (on occasion), coors_fear (on occasion, mostly he's just being a [edit: jerk] about semantics though), paul8red (as of late, his posting style has been "______ is ______ and I don't like it" and never adds to the conversation, so I consider it trolling, maybe he's just an idiot)

idiot:
darkattack, colton (he doesn't post here anymore right? so i'll use his name), kierkegaard (possibly trolling, but the quality isn't very good, and the lack of a strong english vocabulary leads me to believe that the intent is never to incite. responders generally do so to the idiocy of comments rather than any kind of baiting), participant990857324, and any of the members of the community who are under 16 (i think that includes arubamewtwo, marknewyork, etc)

Then of course there is a lot of grey area. Every one of the newest members of this forum that are posting frequently (in my poor forum memory, the list would be: the chinese guy, huntington, and there's one more but I forget), are probably trolls. If not trolls necessarily, they're definitely former members who have been banned but needed to come up with a persona because their previous posting style has become to familiar. In my opinion, these people are trolls, because they're hiding their true identity and just bullshitting us. I'd rather never have had anyone perma-ed because at least then we could tell who's who. It's no fun when I don't pay enough attention to know who thelion or dancingmustard or whoever else is "gone" has become.

Hopefully my examples are helpful.

Please note that I did not mention woodruff in this post until now, as my reverence towards him combined with my grief of our recent loss means I don't want to place him in any category in my rashness. RIP spock. You'll live long and prosper in my heart.

So trolls hide their identity so that they cannot be attacked just as they are doing to other people? Also, posting who you think are trolls and idiots because that list can be seen as a bait. Let us not mention that baiting is part of a troll's arsenal. They last thing we want to start is a no I am not this debate.

EDIT: I forgot to ask, what is worse a troll or an idiot?