The bbb

[jusplay4fun]

The Big, Beautiful Bill (bbb, in title) Passed by Senate, House, and signed by Trump July 4.

[HitRed]

3 Trillion more debt should help silver.

[Pack Rat]

Dollar is 10% lower since January 20th, should help the price of gold and raise the price of everything.

[mookiemcgee]

Republicans doing what republicans do... spending more than democrats while cutting benefits that help the poor and giving tax cuts to people who don't need or deserve them by increasing the federal deficit to levels never before seen... It's so much worse than anything biden ever dreamed of doing.

Thank goodness we don't have the budget Kamala proposed on the campaign trail that actually reduced spending and the deficit. Trump voters got what he promised them and did in his first term...more spending and borrowing.

[ConfederateSS]

Republicans doing what republicans do... spending more than democrats while cutting benefits that help the poor and giving tax cuts to people who don't need or deserve them by increasing the federal deficit to levels never before seen... It's so much worse than anything biden ever dreamed of doing.

Thank goodness we don't have the budget Kamala proposed on the campaign trail that actually reduced spending and the deficit. Trump voters got what he promised them and did in his first term...more spending and borrowing.

-------------REALLY ...
------------------The Democrats who always cut Military Spending...Republicans always have to rebuild the military...
----------------3 Trillion...The Democrats would of blown 10 Trillion...
-----------------The BBB doesn't help Billionaires, as lying Democrats cry, to strike FEAR into people who don't know any better...SO THEY CAN HOLD/STAY IN POWER...Who creates jobs for people, Billionaires...Without The Rich,there wouldn't be jobs for poor people...The Difference with Republicans...They Put AMERICA 1st...They don't care about getting re-elected...WILL CUT USELESS STUFF DEMS HAVE FORCED ON THE AMERICAN PEOPLE...Dems never take/cut anything...BECAUSE THEY WANT TO STAY/HOLD ONTO POWER OVER AMERICA...
-----------NEED OR DESERVE WHAT...ILLEGAL ALIENS DRAINING RESOURCES PAID FOR,BY AMERICAN TAX PAYERS...BUT WHEN REAL AMERICANS NEED HELP, THERE IS NONE, ALL THE MONEY/ETC...HAS BEEN GIVEN TO ILLEGAL ALIENS...
--------------I SAID IF I RAN FOR PRESIDENT....MY HEATH CARE , WOULD BE..."WALK IT OFF"....I KNOW PEOPLE WHO , SKIN THEIR KNEES , ETC..,GO TO THE HOSPITAL....BECAUSE, BIG PHARMA HAS AMERICAN FOOLS BRAINWASHED...YOU NEED THIS,THAT...THE TRUTH, THE ONLY THING YOU NEED IS TIME, TIME HEALS ALL WOUNDS...
------------------THANK GOD and TRUMP for THE BBB... ... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

[mookiemcgee]

Republicans doing what republicans do... spending more than democrats while cutting benefits that help the poor and giving tax cuts to people who don't need or deserve them by increasing the federal deficit to levels never before seen... It's so much worse than anything biden ever dreamed of doing.

Thank goodness we don't have the budget Kamala proposed on the campaign trail that actually reduced spending and the deficit. Trump voters got what he promised them and did in his first term...more spending and borrowing.

-------------REALLY ...
------------------The Democrats who always cut Military Spending...Republicans always have to rebuild the military...
----------------3 Trillion...The Democrats would of blown 10 Trillion...
-----------------The BBB doesn't help Billionaires, as lying Democrats cry, to strike FEAR into people who don't know any better...SO THEY CAN HOLD/STAY IN POWER...Who creates jobs for people, Billionaires...Without The Rich,there wouldn't be jobs for poor people...The Difference with Republicans...They Put AMERICA 1st...They don't care about getting re-elected...WILL CUT USELESS STUFF DEMS HAVE FORCED ON THE AMERICAN PEOPLE...Dems never take/cut anything...BECAUSE THEY WANT TO STAY/HOLD ONTO POWER OVER AMERICA...
-----------NEED OR DESERVE WHAT...ILLEGAL ALIENS DRAINING RESOURCES PAID FOR,BY AMERICAN TAX PAYERS...BUT WHEN REAL AMERICANS NEED HELP, THERE IS NONE, ALL THE MONEY/ETC...HAS BEEN GIVEN TO ILLEGAL ALIENS...
--------------I SAID IF I RAN FOR PRESIDENT....MY HEATH CARE , WOULD BE..."WALK IT OFF"....I KNOW PEOPLE WHO , SKIN THEIR KNEES , ETC..,GO TO THE HOSPITAL....BECAUSE, BIG PHARMA HAS AMERICAN FOOLS BRAINWASHED...YOU NEED THIS,THAT...THE TRUTH, THE ONLY THING YOU NEED IS TIME, TIME HEALS ALL WOUNDS...
------------------THANK GOD and TRUMP for THE BBB... ... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

dEmOcRatEs wOUlD hAvE bANkrUPted tHe gOV't and iCrEaSed tHE dEFicit he says as republicans vote to increase the deficit and bankrupt the country.

Why tax billionaires when we can kick poor cancer patients off food stamps and take away their healthcare he says.

How is kicking Americans off their healthcare, forcing them to retire later, taking away meals for poor children putting America first Confed? Are you capable of giving that a straight answer, or are you gonna stick with 'you put Americans first by telling them not to see a doctor and instead to walk it off, so we can keep billionaires from being taxed'?

Permanently blind SS can't bring himself to even look at the budget with an open mind because he hate democrats (Americans) too much.

[ConfederateSS]

---------------THE FACT IS PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO ACCEPT.....WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE....BIG PHARMA MAKES MONEY ON THAT FACT!!!
------------------DEMOCRATS EXPLOIT IT......
----------------------People take drugs actually believing they will live FOREVER...Go to Hospitals...Where Doctors,Nurses , pile in on that scam...
-------------------The Old , sent/go to what ...Nursing Homes ...To do what...Wait to die...As Fake A$$ Medical want to be workers...Treat them like trash...
--------------------You want to live , to end up like that...Shoving drugs since you are born,(have teacher unions, have people tell you , your kid has this,has that, send them to get drugs), till you die , down your throat...End up in a place in your 90's...Out lived everyone you know, or those that do, have passed on you, left you to die alone,Having strangers wipe your A$$......As the old in these places scream,live a horrible end...
-------------------Or chose your own fate...Swords a swinging, Guns blasting... You go out fighting on your own terms, to join THE LORD GOD IN HEAVEN ... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

[mookiemcgee]

I see, everyone is going to die... therefore we shouldn't tax big pharma companies or the executives and owners of those companies or we won't have any jobs to work before we die without getting to see doctors... America's billionaires First, everyone else is can die?

[jusplay4fun]

Democrats want to complain that this bill benefits only the RICH. Let's look at THE FACTS and not simple and delusional Democrat propaganda.

Here is a partial list of what this bill offers to lower income persons:

Background on The One, Big, Beautiful Bill:

The typical family will get up to $10,900 in additional take-home pay.

Workers will see increased wages up to $7,200.

Households earning less than $100,000get a 12 percent tax cut compared to today.

Up to 7.2 million jobs protected and created, and 1 million new jobs annually by small businesses.

No tax on tips, overtime pay, car loan interest, and tax relief for seniors will put more money annually in Americans’ pockets, $1,300 per tipped worker specifically, and $1,400 for hourly workers.

Locks in and further boosts the doubled Child Tax Credit to $2,200 for more than 40 million American families.
Locks in and further boosts the doubled Standard Deduction, increasing it to $31,500 for families.

Expands 529 education savings accounts and educational freedom to empower American families and students to choose the education that best fits their needs, whether it is K-12 materials or obtaining a postsecondary trades credential.

Supports working families and small businesses by expanding access to the child care credit and making permanent the paid leave tax credit. Enhances the Adoption tax credit to help more families experience the joy of adoption and grows the child and dependent care credit as well as FSAs.

Puts American families in control of their health care by expanding health savings accounts.

Eliminates fraud and waste in Obamacare and blocks access to taxpayer-funded health benefits for illegal immigrants.

Starts building financial security for America’s children at birth with the creation of new Trump savings accounts.

https://waysandmeans.house.gov/2025/07/03/passed-the-one-big-beautiful-bill-the-largest-tax-cut-in-american-history/

The One, Big, Beautiful Bill Delivers Biggest Wins for the Working Class

The One, Big, Beautiful Bill Cuts Taxes for Working-Class Families Who Need It Most

In addition to stopping a $1,700 tax increase later this year, the average American family of four making less than $100,000 receives an additional $600 in tax cuts as compared to today.

Working families making between $15,000 and $30,000 will have their taxes cut by 21% –
the largest of any income group.

https://waysandmeans.house.gov/2025reconciliation/fact-sheets/the-one-big-beautiful-bill-delivers-biggest-wins-for-the-working-class/

as for CUTS (CBS source):

The package also aligns with the initial House version on age requirements for able-bodied adults to qualify for SNAP benefits. Currently, in order to qualify, able-bodied adults between 18 and 54 must meet work requirements. Both the Senate and House bills would update the age requirement to 18 and 64, with some exemptions for parents.

The final bill passed by the Senate would largely terminate numerous tax incentives from the 2022 Inflation Reduction Act for clean energy, electric vehicles and energy efficiency programs that benefited consumers.

It would end tax credits for new and used electric vehicles, installation of home EV charging equipment and insulation or energy efficient heating and cooling systems.

Does this benefit Elon Musk? NO wonder he opposed this bill.

Medicare cuts:

The bill imposes work requirements for some able-bodied adults and more frequent eligibility checks. (...)

The bill also includes a rural hospital stabilization fund after some GOP senators expressed concern over how rural hospitals could be impacted by the Medicaid restrictions, allocating $50 billion for rural hospitals over the same period that the provider taxes would be lowered.

The above quotes come from:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/whats-in-trump-big-beautiful-bill-senate-version/

I expect Mookie to cherry pick limited data from MY SOURCE above to argue something that may or may not be valid. Mookie, please tell pee rat that this is ONE way how one SHOULD offer refutation, and that ANOTHER silly video is not a refutation worth watching.

So we make those who CAN actually WORK? And as typical of Democrats, they want to label this as ONLY a cut and not examine the work requirement. Why would Democrats ACKNOWLEDGE that? Because it RUINS their false narratives, and Democrats keep blaming Republicans for NEEDED CUTS and an attempt to put SOME CONTROLS on the spending for ENTITLEMENTS. Such efforts reduce the deficit. And some want to claim that Kamala would actually have lowered the deficit? Yeah, in a dream world.

Realize too that much of the deficits under Trump were due to TAX CUTS, while those under Biden are due to increased spending. Who do you trust to spend money more wisely? The Government (BOTH Dems and GOP) OR yourself via tax cuts?

[Dukasaur]

The Democrats who always cut Military Spending...Republicans always have to rebuild the military...

Rebuild to what level? You already have the ability to wipe entire countries off the map. What more do you need?

The whole idea of the United States needing a "defense" budget is ludicrous. Nobody is attacking you, except in self-defense. The oceans effectively prevent any major power from Europe or Asia from invading. Your neigbours in the Americas are mostly subservient servants to you. What is the purpose of the "defense" budget? Only to go start trouble in other parts of the world.

https://ronpaulinstitute.org/a-big-beautiful-bill-for-the-military-industrial-complex/

The growing opposition to our hyper-interventionist foreign policy is easy to understand. The US has engaged in numerous military actions in many countries including Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria since the beginning of the 21st century. The American people pay for this militarism in several ways. One is the “inflation tax” imposed by the Federal Reserve in order to monetize the debt incurred by the US government for endless wars. President Trump has turned his back on his antiwar supporters by bombing Iran and by increasing military spending to over a trillion dollars.

The Republican insistence on increasing military spending is the main reason Congress cannot cut taxes without increasing the debt, making cuts in domestic welfare programs, or both. If the Republicans want to be the Make America Great Again party, they need to embrace a true America First foreign policy. This means no more regime change wars or US taxpayer supported “color revolutions.” Instead, America should return to the Founders’ vision of a country that, in the words of John Quincy Adams, does not go “abroad in search of monsters to destroy” and instead is “the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all” while “the champion and vindicator only of her own.”

A return to a noninterventionist foreign policy is the only way we will be able to begin to pay down the national debt and restore a government that adheres to the constitutional limits on its powers and respects all the people’s rights all the time.

[jusplay4fun]

The Democrats who always cut Military Spending...Republicans always have to rebuild the military...

Rebuild to what level? You already have the ability to wipe entire countries off the map. What more do you need?

The whole idea of the United States needing a "defense" budget is ludicrous. Nobody is attacking you, except in self-defense. The oceans effectively prevent any major power from Europe or Asia from invading. Your neigbours in the Americas are mostly subservient servants to you. What is the purpose of the "defense" budget? Only to go start trouble in other parts of the world.

https://ronpaulinstitute.org/a-big-beautiful-bill-for-the-military-industrial-complex/

The growing opposition to our hyper-interventionist foreign policy is easy to understand. The US has engaged in numerous military actions in many countries including Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria since the beginning of the 21st century. The American people pay for this militarism in several ways. One is the “inflation tax” imposed by the Federal Reserve in order to monetize the debt incurred by the US government for endless wars. President Trump has turned his back on his antiwar supporters by bombing Iran and by increasing military spending to over a trillion dollars.

The Republican insistence on increasing military spending is the main reason Congress cannot cut taxes without increasing the debt, making cuts in domestic welfare programs, or both. If the Republicans want to be the Make America Great Again party, they need to embrace a true America First foreign policy. This means no more regime change wars or US taxpayer supported “color revolutions.” Instead, America should return to the Founders’ vision of a country that, in the words of John Quincy Adams, does not go “abroad in search of monsters to destroy” and instead is “the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all” while “the champion and vindicator only of her own.”

A return to a noninterventionist foreign policy is the only way we will be able to begin to pay down the national debt and restore a government that adheres to the constitutional limits on its powers and respects all the people’s rights all the time.

Let's assume for a minute that this is a valid point to debate. It may be. I will offer this as my initial response:

AI Overview

Sun Tzu, in The Art of War, suggests that a large army can deter war, but not solely by its size. He emphasizes strategic maneuvering, deception, and knowing when to fight or not fight. A large army, when used wisely, can create an aura of strength and invincibility, potentially discouraging potential aggressors. However, Sun Tzu also stresses the importance of psychological warfare, and using a large army effectively means understanding its strengths and weaknesses, and deploying it strategically to exploit the enemy's vulnerabilities.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:

Deterrence through Strength:
A large, well-equipped army can create a perception of overwhelming power, potentially deterring other nations from initiating conflict.

This, I think is the Main reason for a large and powerful defense: DETERRENCE = DEFENSE. And that allows nations like Canada and those in the EU to enjoy security from outside threats. Russia is more of a threat to Europe, including the EU, so that Europe SHOULD pay more for its defense. It is NOT 1946 any more.

Let me add that Duk did not answer any of my points and only speaks of Defense/Military spending regarding the bbb. I will wait for responses to my other points. For the moment, I will let ConfedSS defend his own assertions. Mookie usually offers good analysis and points worthy discussing. Those who post silly videos can continue their silliness; they WISH and think that they accomplish something.

[Dukasaur]

Let me add that Duk did not answer any of my points and only speaks of Defense/Military spending regarding the bbb.

Yeah, and I didn't really intend to respond to "your" points. (I put "your" in quotations marks, since they were basically just copy-pasted from Republican propaganda.) I have better things to do with my Sunday than doing point-by-point refutations of propaganda pieces.

But now that you got me going, here's a couple things that jump out at me:

Eliminates fraud and waste in...

Everybody claims they will eliminate fraud and waste. Nobody ever does. Fraud and waste in government programs is systemic. It can be reduced, never eliminated. I haven't seen any evidence that this big ugly bill concretely reduces fraud and waste, but then again, I haven't read it in detail. If you can explain this in your own words, maybe there's something to discuss there. Otherwise, it's just a copy-paste of Republican propaganda without any basis.

Supports working families and small businesses by expanding access to the child care credit and making permanent the paid leave tax credit. Enhances the Adoption tax credit to help more families experience the joy of adoption and grows the child and dependent care credit as well as FSAs

Full of right-wing breeding propaganda. The best thing you can do for your budget is to remain childless. Once you make the fateful decision to have children, all these child tax credits are just slapping a Band-Aid on a gaping wound.

No tax on tips

Already addressed elsewhere.

overtime pay

Similarly stupid. Employers already prefer to cover extra work by making people work overtime instead of by hiring more. Understandably so -- it's a lot easier to get something done by someone who already knows what they're doing than to go through the hassle of hiring and training someone new. While this is good for the company, it's terrible for people. Workers working the extra overtime constantly have stress at home -- rescheduling dinner plans, pissing off their spouses, disappointing their children, missing opportunities to educate themselves or just to chill out and listen to some music. The only compensation is the money, but it rarely truly compensates for the reduced quality of life. Meanwhile, new people find it very hard to break into a field in which they very much would like to work. They're ready and willing, but nobody wants to take the time to bring them in and train them.

Reducing taxes on overtime can only result in increasing the existing problem. Existing workers will face more pressure to take on overtime and worsen their work/life balance, while potential new recruits will find it even harder to get a job in their chosen field.

More stress-related heart attacks among the middle aged, and higher unemployment for youth! How could life get any better?

Expands 529 education savings accounts and educational freedom to empower American families and students to choose the education that best fits their needs, whether it is K-12 materials or obtaining a postsecondary trades credential.
(...)
Puts American families in control of their health care by expanding health savings accounts.

Yeah, yeah. We're going to make health and education more expensive, but we'll allow you to have tax-leveraged savings accounts to soften the burden. Oh gee, thanks!

blocks access to taxpayer-funded health benefits for illegal immigrants.

There is no federal funding for health benefits to illegal immigrants, and in most states illegal immigrants (and often legal ones, also) cannot get any kind of publicly-funded health cared. In those states that choose to provided benefits to immigrants, that's their choice, and not any of the feds' business.

Up to 7.2 million jobs protected and created, and 1 million new jobs annually by small businesses.

Says who? Republican propaganda. Who did this study, and what underlying economic assumptions did they make?

Starts building financial security for America’s children at birth with the creation of new Trump savings accounts.

This is the most obviously self-serving one in the bunch.

The account itself is not a terrible idea, but why slap the asshole's name on it? He didn't invent the concept. Only dictators go around slapping their own name on everything.

For the rich, this account is meaningless. They already have access to better ways to save for their children's future.
For the poor, it's almost useless. $1000 will mean nothing if a family has no disposable income to add to it. In 18 years, it might double three times to $8000, but of course inflation will eat away most of that nominal growth.
For the middle, this actually will be a useful tool. Would be even better if it wasn't polluted with the name of the country's biggest conman.

[Pack Rat]

Story about a single mom with a kid. Now with this BIG BEAUTIFUL BILL, things are going to get worse for this family.

Cutting a trillion dollars off Healthcare for the most vulnerable, food assistance, school lunch and now the attack on Planned Parenthood.

Yet, we will assist the uber-rich and corporations with tax cuts?

show

[jusplay4fun]

Let me add that Duk did not answer any of my points and only speaks of Defense/Military spending regarding the bbb.

Yeah, and I didn't really intend to respond to "your" points. (I put "your" in quotations marks, since they were basically just copy-pasted from Republican propaganda.) I have better things to do with my Sunday than doing point-by-point refutations of propaganda pieces.

But now that you got me going, here's a couple things that jump out at me:

Eliminates fraud and waste in...

Everybody claims they will eliminate fraud and waste. Nobody ever does. Fraud and waste in government programs is systemic. It can be reduced, never eliminated. I haven't seen any evidence that this big ugly bill concretely reduces fraud and waste, but then again, I haven't read it in detail. If you can explain this in your own words, maybe there's something to discuss there. Otherwise, it's just a copy-paste of Republican propaganda without any basis.

Supports working families and small businesses by expanding access to the child care credit and making permanent the paid leave tax credit. Enhances the Adoption tax credit to help more families experience the joy of adoption and grows the child and dependent care credit as well as FSAs

Full of right-wing breeding propaganda. The best thing you can do for your budget is to remain childless. Once you make the fateful decision to have children, all these child tax credits are just slapping a Band-Aid on a gaping wound.

No tax on tips

Already addressed elsewhere.

overtime pay

Similarly stupid. Employers already prefer to cover extra work by making people work overtime instead of by hiring more. Understandably so -- it's a lot easier to get something done by someone who already knows what they're doing than to go through the hassle of hiring and training someone new. While this is good for the company, it's terrible for people. Workers working the extra overtime constantly have stress at home -- rescheduling dinner plans, pissing off their spouses, disappointing their children, missing opportunities to educate themselves or just to chill out and listen to some music. The only compensation is the money, but it rarely truly compensates for the reduced quality of life. Meanwhile, new people find it very hard to break into a field in which they very much would like to work. They're ready and willing, but nobody wants to take the time to bring them in and train them.

Reducing taxes on overtime can only result in increasing the existing problem. Existing workers will face more pressure to take on overtime and worsen their work/life balance, while potential new recruits will find it even harder to get a job in their chosen field.

More stress-related heart attacks among the middle aged, and higher unemployment for youth! How could life get any better?

Expands 529 education savings accounts and educational freedom to empower American families and students to choose the education that best fits their needs, whether it is K-12 materials or obtaining a postsecondary trades credential.
(...)
Puts American families in control of their health care by expanding health savings accounts.

Yeah, yeah. We're going to make health and education more expensive, but we'll allow you to have tax-leveraged savings accounts to soften the burden. Oh gee, thanks!

blocks access to taxpayer-funded health benefits for illegal immigrants.

There is no federal funding for health benefits to illegal immigrants, and in most states illegal immigrants (and often legal ones, also) cannot get any kind of publicly-funded health cared. In those states that choose to provided benefits to immigrants, that's their choice, and not any of the feds' business.

Up to 7.2 million jobs protected and created, and 1 million new jobs annually by small businesses.

Says who? Republican propaganda. Who did this study, and what underlying economic assumptions did they make?

Starts building financial security for America’s children at birth with the creation of new Trump savings accounts.

This is the most obviously self-serving one in the bunch.

The account itself is not a terrible idea, but why slap the asshole's name on it? He didn't invent the concept. Only dictators go around slapping their own name on everything.

For the rich, this account is meaningless. They already have access to better ways to save for their children's future.
For the poor, it's almost useless. $1000 will mean nothing if a family has no disposable income to add to it. In 18 years, it might double three times to $8000, but of course inflation will eat away most of that nominal growth.
For the middle, this actually will be a useful tool. Would be even better if it wasn't polluted with the name of the country's biggest conman.

I did not watch any Fox news or other video news to make my points, Duk. I THINK for myself. Go to some other Forum to look at and read right wing propoganda parrots. I did read several articles before posting to better comprehend what is actually IN the bbb, and cited that, too.

Yes, I quoted from the House website, and yes, that is partisan. Are you surprised? REALLY?

Did anyone else cite a source in this entire discussion on the bbb? NO (not that I recall). Again, no surprise. At least I cite mine and use facts or views that can be further discussed, unlike many here who spend 12 seconds thinking and typing a response.

And thank you, Duk, for a thoughtful response that I may further investigate, BUT I have a clan to lead and no time now to do more investigation and give more thought on the matter of the bbb.

[HitRed]

Children are a blessing.

[karel]

love all the fear factors from the left,just makes me laugh,we all know this bill is going to help and with all the fraud that they have from the dems we will be saving more money

[mookiemcgee]

Up to 7.2 million jobs protected and created, and 1 million new jobs annually by small businesses.

Says who? Republican propaganda. Who did this study, and what underlying economic assumptions did they make?

There is no study bro lol. JP only quoted biased sites that are filled with positive spin. The is only one source that is considered independent in analyzing budgets, and the party in power always claims it's not independent which is a good sign they are doing it right. It's the Congressional Budget Office, here is a link to their analysis of the budget.

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/61486

There is no point for me to try and debate with anyone here, you idiots can believe who/what you want... but you voted in a party that increased taxes on spending through tariffs (it's a sales tax), and then passed a budget with more spending that ever before that creates a bigger deficit than ever before, and the only place they cut is benefits directed towards the masses. You can go ahead and waste your breath now making excuses for it or trying to blame others, but the US gov't is now going to be bigger than ever before and the average american will get less out of it.

[jusplay4fun]

Children are a blessing.

I agree with HR on this point and totally refute Duk:

Duk said (in this Forum thread):

The best thing you can do for your budget is to remain childless. Once you make the fateful decision to have children, all these child tax credits are just slapping a Band-Aid on a gaping wound.

Being the father of two wonderful children, and now grandfather to four, I totally disagree with Duk on this point, even it were written as sarcasm.

Most of Duk's other points need more analysis before I can adequately respond, but I will comment on this, now:

Yeah, yeah. We're going to make health and education more expensive, but we'll allow you to have tax-leveraged savings accounts to soften the burden. Oh gee, thanks!

Terrible argument, Duk. The cost of health care and higher education will continue their rise, even without any action by Trump and the GOP. This is MOSTLY due to government intervention. The Democrats, if Kamala were elected, would have taken a bad situation and exascerbate it.

[Pack Rat]

Who is in office now?

[jusplay4fun]

[b]Who is in office now?

And you totally MISSED my point. Silly rat.

You continue to prove your silliness with each new post, pee rat.

Speaking of Trump, that is why the Big Beautiful Bill is NOW the LAW. He signed the bill into the Law on July 4.

[jusplay4fun]

Let me add that Duk did not answer any of my points and only speaks of Defense/Military spending regarding the bbb.

Yeah, and I didn't really intend to respond to "your" points. (I put "your" in quotations marks, since they were basically just copy-pasted from Republican propaganda.) I have better things to do with my Sunday than doing point-by-point refutations of propaganda pieces.

You failed to address my point about deterrence = Defense, Duk. That was my main point.

That was NOT from my sources of the US House and CBS, but from Sun Tzu.

I do, however appreciate your comments; they make me think and I get a different perspective. Thinking and learning more about such matters keeps me engaged in this Forum and in the world; my reading and investigation and research make me grow as a person. SO THANKS, Duk.

On that note, I engaged in a discussion with my waiter in Dublin on my last full day in Ireland. I told him, in the course of our conversation, that I enjoyed getting the perspective of someone from Turkey. I think he is the first person I met from Turkey and had a conversation with, beyond the rather perfunctory "Hello."

[Dukasaur]

You failed to address my point about deterrence = Defense, Duk. That was my main point.

That was NOT from my sources of the US House and CBS, but from Sun Tzu.

Yeah, deterrence is a thing. If a bully comes on to you, you have to be able to give him a bloody nose.

But let's look at a hypothetical. Let's say you shut down the entire professional defense establishment. All of it except the militia. Turn the Pentagon into a giant homeless shelter or something useful.

Let's say the Chinese load 3 million men onto a giant flotilla and land on your west coast. Yeah, they can take Spokane and Seattle and San Francisco in a couple hours with no professional troops to stop them. Then what? They can't cross the mountains. If they use the roads, the militia blows the bridges. If they try to go cross country, the militia blasts at them from behind trees, and soon enough they learn there's a finite number of good passes through the mountains, and I'm sure you've heard that 300 men can hold a mountain pass against 10,000.

Meanwhile back in Spokane all the gun nuts are having a ball, playing real-life Castle Wolfenstein. The Chinese lose a few hundred a day, just to random shooters.

In Pocatello and Reno and a dozen other old bases, a million veterans are coming out of retirement, firing up some rusty old tanks that were parked in the Surplus graveyards but carefully greased so they would still run even after 25 years. By spring they've reassembled themselves into an army and are surging through the passes that the militia has held for them. Bye, bye Comrade Huang!

Anyway, the whole thing is absurd: the Chinese wouldn't be stupid enough to try such an adventure. My point being that you don't need to be forever enslaved by the military-industrial in the name of "defense". Nobody has any realistic chance of invading you. Your entire professional "defense" establishment exists only to stir up shit in other countries. Protecting your own is theoretically part of its duty, but one that it's unlikely ever to be called upon to use.

[HitRed]

America, Inc.

[jusplay4fun]

You failed to address my point about deterrence = Defense, Duk. That was my main point.

That was NOT from my sources of the US House and CBS, but from Sun Tzu.

Yeah, deterrence is a thing. If a bully comes on to you, you have to be able to give him a bloody nose.

But let's look at a hypothetical. Let's say you shut down the entire professional defense establishment. All of it except the militia. Turn the Pentagon into a giant homeless shelter or something useful.

Let's say the Chinese load 3 million men onto a giant flotilla and land on your west coast. Yeah, they can take Spokane and Seattle and San Francisco in a couple hours with no professional troops to stop them. Then what? They can't cross the mountains. If they use the roads, the militia blows the bridges. If they try to go cross country, the militia blasts at them from behind trees, and soon enough they learn there's a finite number of good passes through the mountains, and I'm sure you've heard that 300 men can hold a mountain pass against 10,000.

Meanwhile back in Spokane all the gun nuts are having a ball, playing real-life Castle Wolfenstein. The Chinese lose a few hundred a day, just to random shooters.

In Pocatello and Reno and a dozen other old bases, a million veterans are coming out of retirement, firing up some rusty old tanks that were parked in the Surplus graveyards but carefully greased so they would still run even after 25 years. By spring they've reassembled themselves into an army and are surging through the passes that the militia has held for them. Bye, bye Comrade Huang!

Anyway, the whole thing is absurd: the Chinese wouldn't be stupid enough to try such an adventure. My point being that you don't need to be forever enslaved by the military-industrial in the name of "defense". Nobody has any realistic chance of invading you. Your entire professional "defense" establishment exists only to stir up shit in other countries. Protecting your own is theoretically part of its duty, but one that it's unlikely ever to be called upon to use.

Long live the Wolverines.


And speaking about (Chinese) bullies, what about the Japanese or Filipinos or Taiwanese?


AND all these words spoken by a Canadian living under the US Umbrella of a defense shield. As I said before, Duk, you speak on your high horse of moral outrage from a perspective of the shadow of a strong US Defense (or Military, if you wish).

[Dukasaur]

AND all these words spoken by a Canadian living under the US Umbrella of a defense shield. As I said before, Duk, you speak on your high horse of moral outrage from a perspective of the shadow of a strong US Defense (or Military, if you wish).

I don't know why you think I'm displaying moral outrage. Just telling it like it is. You're the one paying $3500/year to buy laser-guided bombs to kill some people on the other side of the planet who you've never even heard of, for reasons you won't be told. You should be the one who's outraged. Doesn't cost me anything.

As far as your umbrella is concerned, keep it. Canada enjoys the same gifted geography as the U.S. There are massive oceans between us and anyone who might want to attack us, and if someone did overcome the logistical nightmare of a trans-oceanic invasion, gobbling up this much land while fighting the local militia would wear them down sooner or later. The only country that could realistically attack us would, in fact, be the U.S., so I guess we should be grateful that until now most of your leaders have been relatively sane.