Don't Ask, Don't Tell

[Nobunaga]

... Now this is something I can agree with.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_obama_gays

...

[HapSmo19]

... Now this is something I can agree with.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_obama_gays

...

What are you agreeing with exactly?

[Symmetry]

... Now this is something I can agree with.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_obama_gays

...

Dude- almost 1000 posts according to your profile and you can't post a link properly?

[ url= (ADDRESS)] DESRCIPTION [ /url]

Please- play around with this stuff and take out the spaces.
At the moment it looks like you agree, or maybe disagree with Obama/Gays/ the US. Presumably some combination therein.

Seriously- 1000 posts and you can't link to an article. Get that sorted.

[Hologram]

Ummm, old news? October 28th is the date, by the way.

[john9blue]

Dude- almost 1000 posts according to your profile and you can't post a link properly?

[ url= (ADDRESS)] DESRCIPTION [ /url]

Please- play around with this stuff and take out the spaces.
At the moment it looks like you agree, or maybe disagree with Obama/Gays/ the US. Presumably some combination therein.

Seriously- 1000 posts and you can't link to an article. Get that sorted.

There's nothing wrong with the way he posted it...

[Army of GOD]

I'm so confused with this entire thread.

Is Ashton Kutcher gonna come out and say I've just been Punk'd?

[MeDeFe]

I'm so confused with this entire thread.

Is Ashton Kutcher gonna come out and say I've just been Punk'd?

Sorry, but some things are for real.

[Nobunaga]

... Now this is something I can agree with.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_obama_gays

...

Dude- almost 1000 posts according to your profile and you can't post a link properly?

[ url= (ADDRESS)] DESRCIPTION [ /url]

Please- play around with this stuff and take out the spaces.
At the moment it looks like you agree, or maybe disagree with Obama/Gays/ the US. Presumably some combination therein.

Seriously- 1000 posts and you can't link to an article. Get that sorted.

... Just click the link, lazy bastard.

... I used to take the time to "properly link", but it's just so much, "cool, but not necessary".

...

[Snorri1234]

We're all still confused about the purpose of this thread.

[Nobunaga]

We're all still confused about the purpose of this thread.

... Don't Ask, Don't Tell is a messed up policy. Obama intends to address it, and get rid of it.

... Anybody here think Don't Ask, Don't Tell works well?

...

[pimpdave]

Is Nobunaga coming out of the closet in Turtle Soup?

Is that a first for Turtle Soup? Should I start a thread of Turtle Soup "firsts" and lead it off with Nobunaga's courageous announcement?

[HapSmo19]

... Don't Ask, Don't Tell is a messed up policy. Obama intends to address it, and get rid of it.

... Anybody here think Don't Ask, Don't Tell works well?

...

Yep. Right here.

[Woodruff]

We're all still confused about the purpose of this thread.

... Don't Ask, Don't Tell is a messed up policy. Obama intends to address it, and get rid of it.
... Anybody here think Don't Ask, Don't Tell works well?
...

"Don't Ask, Don't Tell" is a nice idea that is unfortunately also a failed policy. What NEEDS to happen is for the military to openly accept homosexuals into the military. The military led the way in the integration of blacks and they need to step it up in this regard, because the military IS uniquely designed to be able to make this integration happen with fewer bumps in the road than most.

[Burrito]

Disregarding the moral aspects of integrating homosexuals into the armed forces (I'm against it), practically it is a terrible idea. Not only will the gay recruits literally have the sh*t kicked out of them by all the normal guys in there (at least for male recruits), integrating gays into the military will detract from unit integrity. I wouldn't be comfortable living in close proximity to a homosexual. It would create unnecessary tension.

[HapSmo19]

Disregarding the moral aspects of integrating homosexuals into the armed forces (I'm against it), practically it is a terrible idea. Not only will the gay recruits literally have the sh*t kicked out of them by all the normal guys in there (at least for male recruits), integrating gays into the military will detract from unit integrity. I wouldn't be comfortable living in close proximity to a homosexual. It would create unnecessary tension.

Well, your comfort isn't important anymore. What is important is for them to be free to dance around in a pink tube top sprinkling fairy dust to and fro. Forget about cohesion, it's so yesterday.

[lgoasklucyl]

Disregarding the moral aspects of integrating homosexuals into the armed forces (I'm against it), practically it is a terrible idea. Not only will the gay recruits literally have the sh*t kicked out of them by all the normal guys in there (at least for male recruits), integrating gays into the military will detract from unit integrity. I wouldn't be comfortable living in close proximity to a homosexual. It would create unnecessary tension.

Well, your comfort isn't important anymore. What is important is for them to be free to dance around in a pink tube top sprinkling fairy dust to and fro. Forget about cohesion, it's so yesterday.

It's positively fucking disgusting that if a man or woman is ready and willing to give their life for their country you're going to oppose that because of their sexual orientation.

Do you realize how ass backwards and idiotic you sound?

The country's gradually attempting at eliminating the policies written that blatantly enable discrimination, deal with it.

[Woodruff]

Disregarding the moral aspects of integrating homosexuals into the armed forces (I'm against it) practically it is a terrible idea. Not only will the gay recruits literally have the sh*t kicked out of them by all the normal guys in there (at least for male recruits), integrating gays into the military will detract from unit integrity. I wouldn't be comfortable living in close proximity to a homosexual. It would create unnecessary tension.

Thank you for the history lesson on precisely which arguments were used against the integration of blacks into the military. That definitely adds relevant information to the discussion and helps to prove the point that I'm making. And as we (reasonably quickly) saw, there wasn't a lot of substance to the arguments.

Disregarding the moral aspects of integrating homosexuals into the armed forces (I'm against it), practically it is a terrible idea. Not only will the gay recruits literally have the sh*t kicked out of them by all the normal guys in there (at least for male recruits), integrating gays into the military will detract from unit integrity. I wouldn't be comfortable living in close proximity to a homosexual. It would create unnecessary tension.

Well, your comfort isn't important anymore. What is important is for them to be free to dance around in a pink tube top sprinkling fairy dust to and fro. Forget about cohesion, it's so yesterday.

How exactly does this relate to military service?

[john9blue]

Thank you for the history lesson on precisely which arguments were used against the integration of blacks into the military. That definitely adds relevant information to the discussion and helps to prove the point that I'm making. And as we (reasonably quickly) saw, there wasn't a lot of substance to the arguments.

Nowhere near the same thing. Disregarding the fact that it's generally harder to kick the shit out of a black guy, there's a difference between drilling with a guy whose ancestors were from Africa instead of Europe, and having some guy that you hate lusting after you in the public showers. Don't tell me that wouldn't piss you off.

That being said, I think that since we have to allow gays in the military, they should be open about it. Some people don't understand how awkward it is to know guys who obviously like you but haven't come out. You can't even breach the subject without the possibility of offending them (in the slim chance that they aren't gay). They piss you off. I would prefer that they be reassigned to some less volatile unit of the military, but there will always be closets who want to be in the midst of a bunch of straight guys (one of my openly gay friends says that "converting" a straight guy is every gay man's dream). Not all gay guys are like this of course. I know some who are totally respectful and it surprised me when they came out. But there will always be closet pervs. In short, it's an issue that won't go away, and I'd prefer to know who the gays are so it becomes less awkward to talk about it. "Don't ask, don't tell" needs to go.

Sorry if I offended anyone with this, it's just one of my biggest pet peeves. It's hard to talk about while being "politically correct" at the same time. If you think I'm homophobic, then consider the fact that I have openly gay friends...

[muy_thaiguy]

Never really cared for the policy, and what arguments I could have made for getting rid of it have more or less been made.

[Hologram]

Disregarding the moral aspects of integrating homosexuals into the armed forces (I'm against it), practically it is a terrible idea. Not only will the gay recruits literally have the sh*t kicked out of them by all the normal guys in there (at least for male recruits), integrating gays into the military will detract from unit integrity. I wouldn't be comfortable living in close proximity to a homosexual. It would create unnecessary tension.

Are you honestly telling me that I, my fellow Marines, and our fellow service members aren't professional enough to conduct ourselves in a professional manner around gays? Are you fucking serious?

I don't care whether they're straight, gay, bi, transgender, what have you, so long as when the shit hits the fan and rounds start coming down range, they return fire and save my ass, just as I'd save them.

[Burrito]

Disregarding the moral aspects of integrating homosexuals into the armed forces (I'm against it) practically it is a terrible idea. Not only will the gay recruits literally have the sh*t kicked out of them by all the normal guys in there (at least for male recruits), integrating gays into the military will detract from unit integrity. I wouldn't be comfortable living in close proximity to a homosexual. It would create unnecessary tension.

Thank you for the history lesson on precisely which arguments were used against the integration of blacks into the military. That definitely adds relevant information to the discussion and helps to prove the point that I'm making. And as we (reasonably quickly) saw, there wasn't a lot of substance to the arguments.

Disregarding the moral aspects of integrating homosexuals into the armed forces (I'm against it), practically it is a terrible idea. Not only will the gay recruits literally have the sh*t kicked out of them by all the normal guys in there (at least for male recruits), integrating gays into the military will detract from unit integrity. I wouldn't be comfortable living in close proximity to a homosexual. It would create unnecessary tension.

Well, your comfort isn't important anymore. What is important is for them to be free to dance around in a pink tube top sprinkling fairy dust to and fro. Forget about cohesion, it's so yesterday.

How exactly does this relate to military service?

As john9blue said, it is different between black integration and homosexual integration. Blacks were disliked because of the color of their skin and to a lesser extent the opinion that they were less intelligent than white people. Homosexuals are disliked because many view homosexuality as an abomination, or a mental disorder. Blacks were eventually accepted once they proved that they could overcome the stereotype placed upon them. The problem with homosexuals isn't a matter of perception. They like guys, and that makes the majority of the male population at least uncomfortable, at most murderous. especially in the infantry, unit cohesion is a must. You HAVE to be able to trust the men next to you with your life. Friction between members of a unit detracts from concentration that could be given to the task at hand, increasing the possibility of mistakes being made. And differences between normal men and gay ones will never go away. even if you train with them, fight with them, live with them, even become friends with them, you will never get over the thinking about what they might be thinking about during workouts, or next to you in a foxhole, or any other situation where there could be any hint of arousal to a gay man. This is the same reason (at least in infantry units) men and women are separated. Hell, women aren't even allowed to become infantry in the Marines. Sexual tension, tension of any kind, detracts from the basic mission of every soldier out there.

[Burrito]

Disregarding the moral aspects of integrating homosexuals into the armed forces (I'm against it), practically it is a terrible idea. Not only will the gay recruits literally have the sh*t kicked out of them by all the normal guys in there (at least for male recruits), integrating gays into the military will detract from unit integrity. I wouldn't be comfortable living in close proximity to a homosexual. It would create unnecessary tension.

Are you honestly telling me that I, my fellow Marines, and our fellow service members aren't professional enough to conduct ourselves in a professional manner around gays? Are you fucking serious?

I don't care whether they're straight, gay, bi, transgender, what have you, so long as when the shit hits the fan and rounds start coming down range, they return fire and save my ass, just as I'd save them.

Disregarding the heat of the battle, would you really be comfortable living and working in close proximity with a gay guy, knowing that he is probably checking out your ass during PT? That you wouldn't fell the slightest bit uncomfortable sleeping in the same room as him? I'm not saying that they are incapable, I'm saying that unit cohesion is one of the most important aspects in an infantry unit. they would detract from unit cohesion. If you are saying that you wouldn't feel the slightest bit uncomfortable constantly being next to a guy who wants to shove his dick up your ass, that's bullshit.

[Hologram]

Disregarding the moral aspects of integrating homosexuals into the armed forces (I'm against it), practically it is a terrible idea. Not only will the gay recruits literally have the sh*t kicked out of them by all the normal guys in there (at least for male recruits), integrating gays into the military will detract from unit integrity. I wouldn't be comfortable living in close proximity to a homosexual. It would create unnecessary tension.

Are you honestly telling me that I, my fellow Marines, and our fellow service members aren't professional enough to conduct ourselves in a professional manner around gays? Are you fucking serious?

I don't care whether they're straight, gay, bi, transgender, what have you, so long as when the shit hits the fan and rounds start coming down range, they return fire and save my ass, just as I'd save them.

Disregarding the heat of the battle, would you really be comfortable living and working in close proximity with a gay guy, knowing that he is probably checking out your ass during PT? That you wouldn't fell the slightest bit uncomfortable sleeping in the same room as him? I'm not saying that they are incapable, I'm saying that unit cohesion is one of the most important aspects in an infantry unit. they would detract from unit cohesion. If you are saying that you wouldn't feel the slightest bit uncomfortable constantly being next to a guy who wants to shove his dick up your ass, that's bullshit.

Well, I'm sorry to disappoint, but I can honestly say that I wouldn't feel the slightest bit uncomfortable about it, until moves were actually made, at which point I would do the same thing I would if a female were making unprofessional advances towards me: deal with it in the appropriate professional manner.

[Burrito]

Disregarding the moral aspects of integrating homosexuals into the armed forces (I'm against it), practically it is a terrible idea. Not only will the gay recruits literally have the sh*t kicked out of them by all the normal guys in there (at least for male recruits), integrating gays into the military will detract from unit integrity. I wouldn't be comfortable living in close proximity to a homosexual. It would create unnecessary tension.

Are you honestly telling me that I, my fellow Marines, and our fellow service members aren't professional enough to conduct ourselves in a professional manner around gays? Are you fucking serious?

I don't care whether they're straight, gay, bi, transgender, what have you, so long as when the shit hits the fan and rounds start coming down range, they return fire and save my ass, just as I'd save them.

Disregarding the heat of the battle, would you really be comfortable living and working in close proximity with a gay guy, knowing that he is probably checking out your ass during PT? That you wouldn't fell the slightest bit uncomfortable sleeping in the same room as him? I'm not saying that they are incapable, I'm saying that unit cohesion is one of the most important aspects in an infantry unit. they would detract from unit cohesion. If you are saying that you wouldn't feel the slightest bit uncomfortable constantly being next to a guy who wants to shove his dick up your ass, that's bullshit.

Well, I'm sorry to disappoint, but I can honestly say that I wouldn't feel the slightest bit uncomfortable about it, until moves were actually made, at which point I would do the same thing I would if a female were making unprofessional advances towards me: deal with it in the appropriate professional manner.

Well, if that is true, then you are certainly the exception. Even if you wouldn't be affected, the vast majority of men in the armed forces would be, This is the same reason that women aren't allowed to become infantrymen in the Marines. It would create tension. The guys would be trying to impress the girls, the girls would be trying to get with the guys, everyone would be self conscious about how they look to the opposite sex instead of putting their full concentration to the task at hand.

[Hologram]

Disregarding the moral aspects of integrating homosexuals into the armed forces (I'm against it), practically it is a terrible idea. Not only will the gay recruits literally have the sh*t kicked out of them by all the normal guys in there (at least for male recruits), integrating gays into the military will detract from unit integrity. I wouldn't be comfortable living in close proximity to a homosexual. It would create unnecessary tension.

Are you honestly telling me that I, my fellow Marines, and our fellow service members aren't professional enough to conduct ourselves in a professional manner around gays? Are you fucking serious?

I don't care whether they're straight, gay, bi, transgender, what have you, so long as when the shit hits the fan and rounds start coming down range, they return fire and save my ass, just as I'd save them.

Disregarding the heat of the battle, would you really be comfortable living and working in close proximity with a gay guy, knowing that he is probably checking out your ass during PT? That you wouldn't fell the slightest bit uncomfortable sleeping in the same room as him? I'm not saying that they are incapable, I'm saying that unit cohesion is one of the most important aspects in an infantry unit. they would detract from unit cohesion. If you are saying that you wouldn't feel the slightest bit uncomfortable constantly being next to a guy who wants to shove his dick up your ass, that's bullshit.

Well, I'm sorry to disappoint, but I can honestly say that I wouldn't feel the slightest bit uncomfortable about it, until moves were actually made, at which point I would do the same thing I would if a female were making unprofessional advances towards me: deal with it in the appropriate professional manner.

Well, if that is true, then you are certainly the exception. Even if you wouldn't be affected, the vast majority of men in the armed forces would be, This is the same reason that women aren't allowed to become infantrymen in the Marines. It would create tension. The guys would be trying to impress the girls, the girls would be trying to get with the guys, everyone would be self conscious about how they look to the opposite sex instead of putting their full concentration to the task at hand.

I thought it had more to do with the physical capabilities of women being suited for different things (the warrior vs. mother argument). That and the traditional view that women need to be protected and therefore kept out of the front lines (not that that really happens in an amorphous battlefield, and especially in the Marine Corps.

By the way, it's not just the Corps, women are prohibited from holding combat arms jobs in all branches of the military.