Logic dictates that there is a God!

[jay_a2j]

God is not concerned with "putting a man on the moon"

Ezekiel 36:24
" 'For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land.

This verse predicts that God will "gather" the Jews from all nations which they were scattered and bring them back into their own land.

This began being fulfilled in 1948 when Isreal became a Nation. (relatively recent)

End times prophecies???

* there will be wars and rumors of wars
* A change in weather patterns
* there will be earthquakes in various places (increasing in frequency.."birth pains" )
* pestalence



to name a few.

[vtmarik]

God is not concerned with "putting a man on the moon"

Ezekiel 36:24
" 'For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land.

This verse predicts that God will "gather" the Jews from all nations which they were scattered and bring them back into their own land.

This began being fulfilled in 1948 when Isreal became a Nation. (relatively recent)

That's all you had to do man. That's one in the bank for you.

Oh, and i'm ignoring all of your things about the end times because biblical scholars have come to a consensus that the book of Revelations was a vision given to the apostle from God (Apocalypse means "message from God" in Hebrew) of the fall of the Roman Empire.

[onbekende]

[Q]Oh, and i'm ignoring all of your things about the end times because biblical scholars have come to a consensus that the book of Revelations was a vision given to the apostle from God (Apocalypse means "message from God" in Hebrew) of the fall of the Roman Empire.[/Q]
Indeed, the number 666 even counts for Nero Kaisar, the one who banished the writer of the book of Revelations

[Bozo]

1 in 1013 dont seem to be that big of a odds, Alought of people die without having any bones broken, and the bible dosn't print every prediction because there would be alought more wrong ones than right ones.

[vtmarik]

Indeed, the number 666 even counts for Nero Kaisar, the one who banished the writer of the book of Revelations

Also, the 666 is a mistranslation. The actual number is 616, which means that all of the evil-wannabes are dumber than previously indicated.

[thegrimsleeper]

666 is a mistranslation. The actual number is 616.

Where'd you hear that?

[vtmarik]

Where'd you hear that?

BBC News article I think...

EDIT: It's all over the web, here's one article on it:
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/11134

[thegrimsleeper]

Very interesting article... I especially enjoy the bit about how Revelations isn't a prophecy to be fulfilled in our time, but a social critique on ancient Rome. Nero was the antichrist...

But that's just what Satan wants us to think.

[vtmarik]

Very interesting article... I especially enjoy the bit about how Revelations isn't a prophecy to be fulfilled in our time, but a social critique on ancient Rome. Nero was the antichrist...

But that's just what Satan wants us to think.

Or maybe suspecting Satan's role is what he wants...

[Willgfass]

here's what. if science is right, the worst that will happen is re rot in the ground. however, if God is right, we're going to hell. ok

[onbekende]

here's what. if science is right, the worst that will happen is re rot in the ground. however, if God is right, we're going to hell. ok

Nice idea, lukely I am in favor of science

[vtmarik]

here's what. if science is right, the worst that will happen is re rot in the ground. however, if God is right, we're going to hell. ok

Or is that what Satan wants us to think?

So many conspiracy theories, so little time.

[supermarcol]

Although I am a convinced atheist, I don't want to get into a big argument because it usually get me mad and makes me say bad stuff. I just want to point out, regarding the begining of the universe, that it is possible for something to pop out of nothing; as long as an exact opposite is created. Kinda like how 1 and -1 together makes 0. Last time I checked I think thats how science explains the begining of the universe. I think I've also read that some matter and corresponding anti-matter gets created out of nothing near blackholes sometimes.

I think that trying to use religion as a science or science as a religion is wrong. The bible isn't there to tell you how gravity or the digestive system works, its there to help you lead a good life. Science tries to explain everything within a reasonable uncertainty. We get new theories refuting old ones. Its a never ending cycle because we can't find a perfect theory. Nothing is certain, you can't even trust your brain. And being atheist doesn't mean you're not spiritual. It just mean you get your spirituality another way.

[vtmarik]

Although I am a convinced atheist, I don't want to get into a big argument because it usually get me mad and makes me say bad stuff. I just want to point out, regarding the begining of the universe, that it is possible for something to pop out of nothing; as long as an exact opposite is created. Kinda like how 1 and -1 together makes 0. Last time I checked I think thats how science explains the begining of the universe. I think I've also read that some matter and corresponding anti-matter gets created out of nothing near blackholes sometimes.

I think that trying to use religion as a science or science as a religion is wrong. The bible isn't there to tell you how gravity or the digestive system works, its there to help you lead a good life. Science tries to explain everything within a reasonable uncertainty. We get new theories refuting old ones. Its a never ending cycle because we can't find a perfect theory. Nothing is certain, you can't even trust your brain. And being atheist doesn't mean you're not spiritual. It just mean you get your spirituality another way.

Another rational mind!

Man, i'm gonna start having to hug you guys soon.

[Romber]

*totally ignoring every other post*

I wonder the same thing too. Where did the first life come from? Honestly? Its a point that science cant explain.

Big bang=Total BS

Evolution=Total BS

[cutlah45]

I don't think you can say that evolution is total bs. There is very strong evidence to support it, and just because it is a theory doesn't mean it is just a hunch. It is a scientific theory, which means that it is something that there is very strong evidence for, but we will never really be able to prove as fact because we can't go back in time and watch it happen. So even if you are religious I think that it is rational to believe in evolution, if only by way of saying that god put the first single cell orginism on the planet, and orchestrated all of evolution. If you couldn't tell by now I am an atheist. I have been thinking about it and atheists versus religious people arn't that different. It's just one camp puts their faith with science, while another puts their faith with God. Neither is nescassarily wrong, yet. As somebody said earlier, I have no real problem with individual religion or spirituality, but I have a HUGE problem with orginized religion, especially the Catholic Church. I know it is offensive to say, but I think that the crusades alone are enough reason to discredit it as a sound religious orginization. To say nothing of indulgences or its human rights policys. Im positive that there are thousands of good humane people within the orginization, and this is in no way a personal attack, but more of an attack on "the man" of the catholic church. I think that the leadership has been money hungry and corrupted for a long time.

[jay_a2j]

OK alot of discussion on the book of Revelation. I have spent a great deal of time studing this book and the writtings of those who have been studing it far longer than I.

Revelation is not about the Roman Empire but the REVIVED Roman Empire. And has yet to be fulfilled. The EU is what many Biblical scholars consider to be the Revived Roman Empire. The Antichrist has yet to surface (many believe it will be a pope.... the writting on the garmet the pope wears, if you add them up (Roman Numerals) equals 666).

China (the "Army of the East") will wipe out 1/3 of the Earth's population.

Russia ( the "Army to the North") will attack Isreal but be destroyed by China.

Oh there is alot of juicy stuff in Revelation!

[jay_a2j]

*totally ignoring every other post*

I wonder the same thing too. Where did the first life come from? Honestly? Its a point that science cant explain.

Big bang=Total BS

Evolution=Total BS

*** Case in point...there must be a God.

[jay_a2j]

And whoever wrote that something CAN pop up out of nowhere as long as an opposite is created as well. Dude you spend way to much time in the science fiction section of the video store. What scientist wrote that? I'd really like to know. Cause its about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. (and yet someone wants to hug you for it)

[Romber]

So even if you are religious I think that it is rational to believe in evolution, if only by way of saying that god put the first single cell orginism on the planet,

Why would God create the single celled organism yet make it evolve? He would make the whole species.

And why would it be rational to believe in evolution when there is strong evidence against it and it would go against your own faith?

[vtmarik]

Russia ( the "Army to the North") will attack Israel but be destroyed by China.

Russia? Attack Israel? Apparently you haven't been paying attention to world events. What would they attack Israel with? Pots and Pans?

In all likelyhood the Army to the North will be the USA (North America).

Why would God create the single celled organism yet make it evolve? He would make the whole species.

And why would it be rational to believe in evolution when there is strong evidence against it and it would go against your own faith?

Now that's really presumptuous! Assuming that God wouldn't do something because it doesn't make sense to you... Tsk tsk... It's not supposed to make sense to us. We're humans, He's God. Stop trying to make him follow your rules.

There's incredibly strong evidence in favor of evolution as well. Or are you claiming that God can't have created the Earth by way of the natural laws that scientists have observed for years?

[jay_a2j]

[quote="vtmarik"][quote="jay_a2j"]
Russia? Attack Israel? Apparently you haven't been paying attention to world events. What would they attack Israel with? Pots and Pans?

In all likelyhood the Army to the North will be the USA (North America).


When Revelation describes "armies" they are described in relation to where they are located in reference to Isreal. The USA is not north of Isreal, Russia is. Furthermore, the USA is not mentioned ( I believe because it will not be a world power or will cease to exist alltogether)

Intresting as well.. Putin (president of Russia) has written a book where he invisions "the motherland" (Russia) moving its armies to destroy Isreal.

Its all unfolding before our eyes.... oh and I would advise not getting chipped.

[howie]

I agree with Jay on this, all super powers fall, unfortunatly the majority of Yanks think because they have the most nukes that they will stay boss. they will never be the Army of the North

Putin wants to rebuild Russia to its former glory, starting with gas to Europe, have you seen the price rises, Ukariane have no choice but to pay.

[thegrimsleeper]

Well of course all super powers fall, that's just the way of the world. What goes up, must come down. That's a little thing called gravity. You might have heard of it. It was discovered by a guy named Isaac Newton. You might have heard of him.

Something you might not have known was that Newton was as dedicated a scientist as he was a theologian. He said, "Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion. God governs all things and knows all that is or can be done."

Whatever your stance in this discussion is, it must must be conceded that it is interesting that one of our greatest scientists could not have acheived what he did without his faith.

[jay_a2j]

I agree with Jay on this, all super powers fall, unfortunatly the majority of Yanks think because they have the most nukes that they will stay boss. they will never be the Army of the North

Putin wants to rebuild Russia to its former glory, starting with gas to Europe, have you seen the price rises, Ukariane have no choice but to pay.

Hey! I'm a Yank.