Game of Thrones (series spoiling only!)

[muy_thaiguy]

It s not like cersei had no control over jeoffrey... He loved and respected his mother in his own way. But he was a completely spoiled brat and she would back up all his shit blinded by her maternal love. Being quite a cunt herself, she sure didn t mind her son being a major cunt.

There was going to be a war anyways. Renly and Stannis were going to fight for that throne.
Ned was a major threat to jeoffrey's real identity and to unify the North and center.
Robb wasn t much and no one expected him to become the great military leader he managed to become... For a short period of time.
Sansa and Arya were already available to bargain stuff with the Starks.
Ned was a terribly dangerous man for the Lannister interests.
While Jeoffrey didn t really think anything through and mostly did it because he was a sick bastard, it was the right thing to do.

So, you're comparing two young girls (only one of whom was actually in King's Landing after Ned was executed) to a King's Guard, heir to the Lannister House, and highly proven fighter? You are ignoring what the characters Tywin and Tyrion said in both the book and tv series, that with Ned dead, and Jaime captured, their bargaining position was considerably weaker. And you also forget that Ned wasn't the only one who knew of Joffery. In the books, Stannis had investigated with Jon Arryn the legitimacy of Cersei's children. And in the show, Ned had sent the information to Stannis anyways. Too late on that, and Ned being exchanged for Jaime (even if he had to take the Black) would have tempered the North. Not to mention that Renly and Stannis were preparing to face off against each other as well.
And when news reached the North of Ned's capture, the forces were already gathered (and on the march and captured Jaime for his attack on Ned in the first place) in the show.

[betiko]

As far as I remember:
-Arya is in king's landing and sees how her father gets his head chopped off in front of her eyes. The Lannisters don't know she has escaped yet, even less that Littlefinger made that possible
-Jamie gets captured by Robb like a season later wtf are you talking about
-Katherine organises the prisonner exchange between jaimie and sansa (don't remember if she thinks she'll get arya out of the deal too) and Ned's death doesn't change shit to the deal
-Of course Ned isn't the only one to know about Joffrey. Does that means it makes him a trustworthy warden of the north? Any chance the starks will be loyal to the Lannisters after that? Or would the Lannisters rather have someone else in charge there? Sansa was promissed to Joffrey only when the Starks were going to be possible allies. They changed strategy soon after and Sansa slowly changed status. Littlefinger comming up with the Tyrell girl idea to become queen.
-The Lannisters were giving very little credit to Robb because of his inexperience. Having Robb leading the northeners was significantly a better news than having Ned with all his experience doing so (he had already been able to take out the mad king after all..)
-Yes, Renly and Stannis were getting ready for war. Nevertheless; this was a 3 way face off joffrey/stannis/renly. We don't know how things would've gone had the red sorceress not killen renly. It is very likely that the 2 brothers would've gone easier on each other and that their major rival was joffrey

Now just to back up your theory: what would've happened had Ned not been beheaded? What would've been so much easier in the Lannister politics???

[strike wolf]

Killing Ned was terrible for them. They gave up their one bargaining chip that could have prevented war.

That endng was boss. Dany might be the best conqueror, Stannis the best general (egh. Blackwater), Jaime (pre-maimed) the best warrior and Littlefinger and varys vying for the smartest/most manipulative vbut Jon and Tyrion are the best leaders. No one commands respect like Jon Snow and no one knows how to get things done quite like Ttyrion. The fight itself. Well it was epic. As far as why not send them over the cliff. I think overconfidence. That they would wipe them out without much of a fight. It wasnt until Jon killed the white walker that they took it seriously. That look of fear from Jon capped the episode nicely.

Dany has officiay lost her shit.

[strike wolf]

Cersei has always been an arrogant bitch who didnt know the difference between what helped her and what would hurt her if it seemed to help on the short run. It only got worse after Jofgfrey's death.

[Army of GOD]

Cersei is shit as a ruler. All of her decisions are selfish. She never sacrifices personal gain for the advancement of her kingdom and that always ends up hurting the person making the decisions.

What good moves has she made?

I guess the best one is using the green shit (forgot what it's called" during the battle of Blackwater Bay (she ok'd that, right?) but other than that she's been terribly shoddy with her decisions.

Tywin was the Lannister family.

[strike wolf]

Tyrion was the one who found and figured out how to best implement the Wyldfire at Blackwater.

[Army of GOD]

Dammit ok so I misremembered

[waauw]

Tyrion was the one who found and figured out how to best implement the Wyldfire at Blackwater.

According to the books wasn't it Cersei who initially ordered the re-production of the Wyldfire?(though some parts were remnants from the mad king)

[strike wolf]

It may have been. She certainly knew about it.

[muy_thaiguy]

But Tyrion took over and put it to use at the battle.

[Army of GOD]

That only helps my point though.

What decisions has Cersei made that were good for her?

[strike wolf]

Oh thats right. Cersei was having them make and put all the wyldfire together...right under the Red Keep which Tyrion instantly recognized for the horrible idea that it was and had it moved to a place where it wouldnt blow the castle up (with him in it) under his supervision.

[muy_thaiguy]

That only helps my point though.

What decisions has Cersei made that were good for her?

Not banging her son, father, and dwarf brother where it seems she is attracted to most of her other family members?

[strike wolf]

Well Cersei is a narcissist. Her love for Jaime is only a reflection of her love for herself. She loves her kids as her progeny and the only ones worth anything other than herself. It's why she hates anyone who might be smarter than her (Tyrion), prettier than her (Margaery) or just is a threat to the power she thinks she deserves (Tywin, Tyrion, Margaery, Kevan Lannister, The Tyrells, Jon Snow (yeah true story. She tried to have him killed on the very slim idea that as the new Lord Commander of the Night's Watch he might lead them south to fight her...), Bronn as an extension of Tyrion, etc. etc. etc.)

[Army of GOD]

I just want to say, the Shireen scene in this last episode is why I love GoT. Not many shows (and by many, I mean pretty much none) have the gall to make that scene happen.

Stannis is full-on piece of shit mode from now until he dies though. I was starting to like him too...

[Funkyterrance]

Who watches this trash? My dad watches it but only for the boobies.

[patches70]

I just want to say, the Shireen scene in this last episode is why I love GoT. Not many shows (and by many, I mean pretty much none) have the gall to make that scene happen.

Stannis is full-on piece of shit mode from now until he dies though. I was starting to like him too...

Davos is going to be pissed when he gets back, either he or Melisandre gots to go.
f*ck, it was a good scene I guess, the actress playing Shireen was excellent but it goes against Stannis' character to do that to his daughter. Stannis wouldn't have done that in a million years. Damn show writers fucking up every character.

Stannis ought to think for a minute. That red witch had three leeches, one for each of three kings. Renly is dead, but by some other dark magic from the red witch, not the leeches. Then Jeoffry but his death had nothing to do with whatever the red witch was doing. Had she not burned the leeches Jeoffry was still going to die. Then the third leech, Balon is still alive. Stannis should know this by now. Her magic is bullshit.

No way no how would Stannis burn his own daughter at the stake. At least not the Martin Stannis. The HBO Stannis, apparently.


There were a few scenes that made me laugh though this episode. When Bronn took that shot to the face from the Dornish Captain, the look on Bronn's face made me laugh heartily. Then Dario talking about how the smaller and quicker man would win then fight, shot switches to small man getting his head lopped off. Dario gritting his teeth made me laugh.

Next week, if Arya does what we all think she is going to do, that scene is from the upcoming book that has yet to be released. That particular scene was the already released Arya chapter that will be in the next book. I don't think it was Meryn in the upcoming book but some other guy on her list (who I won't name for spoiler reasons), but yeah, we'll get to see Arya doing some devious shit if it plays out like that chapter. Should be fun and when we see it people should remember that Maisie Williams is 18 years of age, so it won't be too bad to have impure thoughts I suppose when we see the lengths she'll go through to get her man so to speak.

[Army of GOD]

I just want to say, the Shireen scene in this last episode is why I love GoT. Not many shows (and by many, I mean pretty much none) have the gall to make that scene happen.

Stannis is full-on piece of shit mode from now until he dies though. I was starting to like him too...

Davos is going to be pissed when he gets back, either he or Melisandre gots to go.
f*ck, it was a good scene I guess, the actress playing Shireen was excellent but it goes against Stannis' character to do that to his daughter. Stannis wouldn't have done that in a million years. Damn show writers fucking up every character.

Stannis ought to think for a minute. That red witch had three leeches, one for each of three kings. Renly is dead, but by some other dark magic from the red witch, not the leeches. Then Jeoffry but his death had nothing to do with whatever the red witch was doing. Had she not burned the leeches Jeoffry was still going to die. Then the third leech, Balon is still alive. Stannis should know this by now. Her magic is bullshit.

No way no how would Stannis burn his own daughter at the stake. At least not the Martin Stannis. The HBO Stannis, apparently.

what do you mean?

Stannis isn't some set-in-stone stagnant character. This scene is a huge part of his character development.

He showed it a little bit with his willingness to assassinate Renly, but holy f*ck, it's obvious that he wants to be king and doesn't give a shit whats in his way now.

[waauw]

I agree with patches. For some reason the series writers seem to hate Stannis, always portraying him more aweful than he got portrayed in the books.

[patches70]

I just want to say, the Shireen scene in this last episode is why I love GoT. Not many shows (and by many, I mean pretty much none) have the gall to make that scene happen.

Stannis is full-on piece of shit mode from now until he dies though. I was starting to like him too...

Davos is going to be pissed when he gets back, either he or Melisandre gots to go.
f*ck, it was a good scene I guess, the actress playing Shireen was excellent but it goes against Stannis' character to do that to his daughter. Stannis wouldn't have done that in a million years. Damn show writers fucking up every character.

Stannis ought to think for a minute. That red witch had three leeches, one for each of three kings. Renly is dead, but by some other dark magic from the red witch, not the leeches. Then Jeoffry but his death had nothing to do with whatever the red witch was doing. Had she not burned the leeches Jeoffry was still going to die. Then the third leech, Balon is still alive. Stannis should know this by now. Her magic is bullshit.

No way no how would Stannis burn his own daughter at the stake. At least not the Martin Stannis. The HBO Stannis, apparently.

what do you mean?

Stannis isn't some set-in-stone stagnant character. This scene is a huge part of his character development.

He showed it a little bit with his willingness to assassinate Renly, but holy f*ck, it's obvious that he wants to be king and doesn't give a shit whats in his way now.

In the show Stannis shows remorse for his hand in Renly's death. He figured out it was a mistake to do that after the fact and even sobbed like a baby over it. Kin killing is a huge no-no in the Westeros culture. Stannis loves his daughter and there is no way he would sacrifice her to the fire. Sure, he's willing to sacrifice someone to the fire, but it wouldn't ever have been Shireen. Not in the books at least. In the books he has another option but that character was done away with in the show.
Yeah he wants to be king but it isn't about desire, that he wants it, but rather that it is already so. Its his responsibility. His desire to be king doesn't play that big of a role. Its a matter of duty to Stannis. Its the legal thing as far as Stannis goes.

Stannis above all else is a law and order type of fellow. There was a scene earlier in this season where Stannis tried to put the moves on Melesandre and she rejected him. It made my eyes roll because book Stannis doesn't do shit like that. Hell, Melsandre wanted to have Edric Storm (one of Robert's bastards) burned to the fire God and Stannis wouldn't let her do it, but he'd let his own daughter get burned? I don't think so. In the show Stannis wouldn't let Melsandre burn Gendry so she had to leech some blood from him instead. So we have to believe that Stannis would spare Gendry and sacrifice his own daughter? Naw. The show writers are fucking up Stannis' character pretty badly, IMO.

Stannis has never been that devoted to the fire God. He sees Melesandre as a means to an end. Stannis ain't no puppy dog lead horny dog trying to hump Melesandre's leg all the time (though she is hot as hell). Its Stannis' wife that is the devotee. She might be willing to sacrifice her own child, but Stannis would have her executed if she tried that shit. Stannis would have Melesandre executed if she tried to burn Shireen. Or that's how Stannis should be if trying to remain faithful to the book character.

This show veers from the books, that's why though the show is good it'll never be as good as the books because they not only omit and change characters from the books but they also have the characters do things that contradict their natures even from the show's previous scenes. Even show Stannis wouldn't have burned Shireen alive or we have to believe that Stannis was straight up lying when he told the story of how Shireen got the Grayscale earlier in this season.

This isn't character development, this is character assassination. Its not intended to be logical or consistent, its intended for the audience to go- "Oh snap! I didn't see that coming!". Its a spectacle is all, intended to shock instead of think.

[strike wolf]

This was the most disappointing episode this season. We have the second useless death with Stannis' daughter dying. Which only served to piss me off. We have the Dorne story line pretending to not be filler. We ignore Cersei's storyline. And we have the sons of the Harpy nonsensically slaughter everyone at the fighting pits ensuing into the disappointing dragon battle whichled to Dany commanding Drogon to fly in English (abandoning everyone else to their fate) despite always commanding the dragons in Valyrian in the past. The highlights of this episode were the cold welcome to The Wall that Jon and the wildlings received and Arya's stalking of the apparently pedophilic Kingsguard asshole. Thats not saying much.

[muy_thaiguy]

Yeah, people are wondering if the author even knows where he is going with the books, let alone the TV series. Been like 5 years since the last book came out.

[patches70]

The highlights of this episode were the cold welcome to The Wall that Jon and the wildlings received

Ha! Wrap your head around this- Why did Jon land the fleet on the wrong side of the wall? So that the writers could have Jon and Alliser engage in an epic stare down, from 800 feet away from each other! Hahaha! Such tripe. Then, riddle me this, the wildlings, hundreds if not thousands of them walked through the frozen north to the wall carrying nothing but clothes on their backs. Yet Stannis, hundreds of miles to the south is snowed in to the point where he can't move and he has to burn his daughter to get the weather to change? Really? Pffft.

and Arya's stalking of the apparently pedophilic Kingsguard asshole. Thats not saying much.

This was the only real highlight of the episode, I actually like this slight change from the book. But I have to wonder, did Arya actually get away with a lie to Jaqen? I don't think so. I guess we'll see soon enough.


The writing this season has been sub par at best. Outright ridiculous actually.

[waauw]

Yeah, people are wondering if the author even knows where he is going with the books, let alone the TV series. Been like 5 years since the last book came out.

According to interviews, he does know where he's going on the long run, but he doesn't know what's going to happen in between. He's a self-named gardener writer. He jsut makes up things on the spot for everything in between.

[muy_thaiguy]

Yeah, people are wondering if the author even knows where he is going with the books, let alone the TV series. Been like 5 years since the last book came out.

According to interviews, he does know where he's going on the long run, but he doesn't know what's going to happen in between. He's a self-named gardener writer. He jsut makes up things on the spot for everything in between.

And that is what is frustrating a lot of people. Not even an outline.

Now, if only Robert Jordan's widow can win the court case against Red Eagle for media rights for the Wheel of Time Series, and that may get a TV series. And it's already finished as a book series.