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Why are christians so annoying?

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Postby vtmarik on Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:10 am

MR. Nate wrote:1. The belief system of Christianity DEMANDS a certain amount of pushyness. I sincerely believe that everyone who does not believe in Christ as their personal Saviour will spend eternity under torture. Now, while I understand that many of you don't agree with this belief of mine, that in no way lessens my conviction. So, if I care at all for you, I have a responsibility to try to convince you to accept Christ. Normally, if we had a personal relationship, it would not seem as pushy, but in an online forum, there's only so much you can do. In good conscience, I cannot simply say, "Well, if they want to go to hell, that's their problem" That would be akin to allowing a blind man stay in a burning building because he wants to finish supper. Just because he doesn't accept the existence of the danger is it any less real.


Understood, however this does not take into account that many of us have heard this before countless times. You adding your voice to the cacophony is only going to frustrate and turn off those you wish to "save."

2. A lot of people are too easily annoyed. Look, all that being said, if you enter a thread called "Continuation of Christianity Debate" or " Question for the Religious Types" or "Logic dictates that there is a God" or "Jesus Freaks" or "The Fish Club - Christians come and discuss our faith." you can necessarily expect Christians to be discussing their faith. It's what it's their for. And if you think that Christians are pushy for creating threads in which they can discuss or debate their beliefs, then everyone in every internet forum is pushy, because that's what forums are about, discussing or debating ideas. If you can't handle it, try reading the thread titles and figuring out whether or not it has to do with religion, and if it does, skip it. There are lots of threads that I don't read because I'm pretty sure they're going to be a waste of time.


There's a massive chasm between discussing your faith and going up to someone and saying "Everything you have believed up to this point is wrong, you have to do this and only this can save you from eternal torture in hell."

Not exactly the best sales pitch is it?

How would you feel if some salesman came up to you and told you that if you didn't buy his company's vacuum cleaner that you were never going to live a full and successful life ever, and that you might as well give up on ever cleaning your house. Now imagine that there are dozens of these salesmen bothering you at the mall, in the street, and at your school; and nothing can dissuade them from giving you the same sales pitch no matter what you tell them. The only way that they will stop is if you buy their vacuum.

So, to answer the question:
You are probably annoyed by Christians because you don't agree with their perspective on eternity. They feel you are on your way to hell, and you either disagree or don't care. However, they are persistent, because they actually care about what they believe, you would prefer that they not live their lives in a way consistent with their belief system.


I would prefer if they lived their lives in a way that allowed equal justice to all belief systems, rather than a theo-centric view that only their path is the right one.

Treat thy neighbor as thyself means that you don't belittle his beliefs lest he belittle yours.


MeDeFe wrote:
Coleman wrote:So there is no 'right' religion. There are some wrong religions, but they are easily identifiable. I also have a different belief regarding 'hell' then most. I believe that hell is simply a place that exists without God. People choose to live a life without God they can spend death without him as well. It isn't necessarily a place of torture, but it probably isn't paradise either. I would assume it is similar to where we are now.

Exactly HOW are those religions easily identifiable?


Jonestown.
Heavens Gate.
Scientology.
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Postby OnlyAmbrose on Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:14 am

1. The belief system of Christianity DEMANDS a certain amount of pushyness. I sincerely believe that everyone who does not believe in Christ as their personal Saviour will spend eternity under torture. Now, while I understand that many of you don't agree with this belief of mine, that in no way lessens my conviction. So, if I care at all for you, I have a responsibility to try to convince you to accept Christ. Normally, if we had a personal relationship, it would not seem as pushy, but in an online forum, there's only so much you can do. In good conscience, I cannot simply say, "Well, if they want to go to hell, that's their problem" That would be akin to allowing a blind man stay in a burning building because he wants to finish supper. Just because he doesn't accept the existence of the danger is it any less real.


Mr. Nate, I agree with you to a certain extent. Yes, we are under obligation to do all that we can in furthering the goal of the salvation of souls, but oftentimes I think that we make our own role in the achievement of such a goal far too big for ourselves.

Let's face it. Preaching about the end times and the dangers of hell on a street corner is probably not going to win over any souls. Honestly, I think that logic and human reason can only get you so far in winning anyone over. While I think that human reason is capable of defending the faith, I don't think it goes far enough as to prove the faith. For that you need a spiritual conversion.

Being "pushy" - that is, directly attempting to convert someone, generally turns them off from Christianity even more, and may cause a person to ignore that spiritual experience when it comes out of sheer bias against a religion because someone pestered them so much about it. This is clearly not a desirable end.

So what can we do? Live in love, go about removing the ash in our own eyes (as it were), living charitable lives, so that when the Lord is revealed to a nonbeliever, he will have a far easier time accepting Him because he has seen the love displayed by those who follow Him.

And most of all, pray for their souls. Sometimes I think we put way too much emphasis on the physical debates which we have here on earth and not enough emphasis on the spiritual side of conversion, which is ultimately what matters.

Now on your second point...

2. A lot of people are too easily annoyed. Look, all that being said, if you enter a thread called "Continuation of Christianity Debate" or " Question for the Religious Types" or "Logic dictates that there is a God" or "Jesus Freaks" or "The Fish Club - Christians come and discuss our faith." you can necessarily expect Christians to be discussing their faith. It's what it's their for. And if you think that Christians are pushy for creating threads in which they can discuss or debate their beliefs, then everyone in every internet forum is pushy, because that's what forums are about, discussing or debating ideas. If you can't handle it, try reading the thread titles and figuring out whether or not it has to do with religion, and if it does, skip it. There are lots of threads that I don't read because I'm pretty sure they're going to be a waste of time.


I completely agree.
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Postby Norse on Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:22 am

I don't get it....

Surely if this was the case (ie, going to heaven), and only those who believed in and practised christianity were going to heaven, then why would you want any more followers?

Dammit, if I knew something that was going to save everyone and lead me to a better place, I sure as hell wouldnt tell you muppets about it (well, maybe a few of you), as I would prefer to have plenty of space, and not have to deal with pansies like yourselves.

This therefore leads me to the conclusion that you bible-bashing god-botherers are on commision here....Whats the deal? convert a person and get a biscuit? convert a whole family and get a whole pack of biscuits?
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Postby OnlyAmbrose on Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:27 am

Norse, if all you can do is make ridiculous sarcastic comments, then please just shut up. If you want to discuss this like a man then follow vt's example and make counterpoints so MAYBE we can all come to an understanding, and then perhaps you'd be less annoyed.

Honestly, I think the reason you find Christians annoying is because you want to.
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Postby vtmarik on Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:30 am

OnlyAmbrose wrote:Norse, if all you can do is make ridiculous sarcastic comments, then please just shut up. If you want to discuss this like a man then follow vt's example and make counterpoints so MAYBE we can all come to an understanding, and then perhaps you'd be less annoyed.

Honestly, I think the reason you find Christians annoying is because you want to.


At one time, I made comments like that all by themselves.

Don't worry, it's just a stage of development.
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Postby Norse on Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:31 am

OnlyAmbrose wrote:Norse, if all you can do is make ridiculous sarcastic comments, then please just shut up. If you want to discuss this like a man then follow vt's example and make counterpoints so MAYBE we can all come to an understanding, and then perhaps you'd be less annoyed.

Honestly, I think the reason you find Christians annoying is because you want to.




I make a very good point, and if you do not wish to couterpoint my arguements, then why should I do onto you that you do not do onto me?

See, I am more holier than thou!
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Postby Norse on Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:34 am

vtmarik wrote:
OnlyAmbrose wrote:Norse, if all you can do is make ridiculous sarcastic comments, then please just shut up. If you want to discuss this like a man then follow vt's example and make counterpoints so MAYBE we can all come to an understanding, and then perhaps you'd be less annoyed.

Honestly, I think the reason you find Christians annoying is because you want to.


At one time, I made comments like that all by themselves.

Don't worry, it's just a stage of development.


Now now VT, do not use your pompous debating as a currency, or even worse, as a pretence of intellect.

If you wish to debate an irrational belief rationally with irrational people, then you are going to get nowhere.
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Postby vtmarik on Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:39 am

Norse wrote:Now now VT, do not use your pompous debating as a currency, or even worse, as a pretence of intellect.

If you wish to debate an irrational belief rationally with irrational people, then you are going to get nowhere.


Who's being pompous, I remember the days when I'd make sarcastic comments without much backing using my own atheism to feel superior to Christians. I got over it.

Get into some philosophy and you can start to understand why I can discuss this sort of thing in a rational manner. I think it was either Kierkegaard or Kant who said that all viewpoints are equally valid.
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Postby OnlyAmbrose on Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:41 am

Do a search for the agnostic thread, Norse. Atheism is equally irrational as theism is.
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Postby Norse on Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:57 am

OnlyAmbrose wrote:Do a search for the agnostic thread, Norse. Atheism is equally irrational as theism is.


Who's to say I'm an atheist? Atheism depends upon an argued, time spent belief in disproving the philispohical fundementals of religion.

Do you really think I am going to be spending my time doing that, when there is much masturbating to be done?

Nope.

Besides, logic dictates that we evolved from apes, and that the universe began with a big bang... so, I would not consider my beliefs as irrational.
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Postby salvadevinemasse on Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:02 pm

Norse with all the masterbating you do theres no way your married or have a g/f.. because i dont know a single girl who'd let her b/f-husband spend all his time doing that and not her.. tisk tisk
lol
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Postby OnlyAmbrose on Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:10 pm

Norse wrote:Besides, logic dictates that we evolved from apes, and that the universe began with a big bang... so, I would not consider my beliefs as irrational.


Would you believe it? I subscribe to both evolution and the big bang theory. What do you know? Maybe if you took the time to partake in the various debates we have here instead of labeling all Christians as "irrational" you'd know that.
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Postby salvadevinemasse on Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:12 pm

OnlyAmbrose wrote:
Norse wrote:Besides, logic dictates that we evolved from apes, and that the universe began with a big bang... so, I would not consider my beliefs as irrational.


Would you believe it? I subscribe to both evolution and the big bang theory. What do you know? Maybe if you took the time to partake in the various debates we have here instead of labeling all Christians as "irrational" you'd know that.


dont you mean instead of masterbating? Because thats what hes doing all the time. I dont think hes taken the time to look over all the theorys or to make one up yet..
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Postby Norse on Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:13 pm

OnlyAmbrose wrote:
Norse wrote:Besides, logic dictates that we evolved from apes, and that the universe began with a big bang... so, I would not consider my beliefs as irrational.


Would you believe it? I subscribe to both evolution and the big bang theory. What do you know? Maybe if you took the time to partake in the various debates we have here instead of labeling all Christians as "irrational" you'd know that.


Well, wouldn't that be a contradiction?

I mean, if the world was created by the big bang, then how did god create the earth? And if humans and all other creatures developed autonomously throughout time, then how did god create all of his creatures?
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Postby Backglass on Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:14 pm

OnlyAmbrose wrote:Atheism is equally irrational as theism is.


I love it when you guys try to paint Atheists as irrational, simply because we don't buy into the myths & deity's.

If gods existed, they would show themselves...not hide in the shadows and speak through flaming plants. Don't any of you believers think it the slightest bit strange that your all powerful, all knowing god can't just appear to the world at once and put the whole matter to rest? Don't you find it strange that there was a flurry, almost daily amount of god<->man communication back in biblical times and yet we haven't heard a peep in thousands of years?

Let the rationalizations flow. "He could do that, but he doesn't WANT to show himself", "A thousand years is like a minute to him", "He doesn't need to prove anything to YOU", "You have to find HIM, not the other way around!", etc.

It's all just a giant, cosmic game of hide-and-go-seek I guess. :lol:
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Postby OnlyAmbrose on Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:16 pm

Norse wrote:
OnlyAmbrose wrote:
Norse wrote:Besides, logic dictates that we evolved from apes, and that the universe began with a big bang... so, I would not consider my beliefs as irrational.


Would you believe it? I subscribe to both evolution and the big bang theory. What do you know? Maybe if you took the time to partake in the various debates we have here instead of labeling all Christians as "irrational" you'd know that.


Well, wouldn't that be a contradiction?

I mean, if the world was created by the big bang, then how did god create the earth? And if humans and all other creatures developed autonomously throughout time, then how did god create all of his creatures?


Yes but Norse... what created the Big Bang?

And what created whatever created the Big Bang?

Simple cause and effect logic dictates that everything must have a cause. Only problem with that is eventually you must reach a breach in that cause and effect logic, because ultimately there must be something which never had a cause. Atheists just say they don't know what that breach in logic is - theists say that breach is God. Either way, both parties believe in an irrationality.

If you're actually interested in continuing this, do a search for the Agnostic thread. There's several pages of good stuff in there.

edit- and backglass, I'd invite you to do likewise.
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Postby salvadevinemasse on Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:18 pm

Backglass wrote:
OnlyAmbrose wrote:Atheism is equally irrational as theism is.


I love it when you guys try to paint Atheists as irrational, simply because we don't buy into the myths & deity's.

If gods existed, they would show themselves...not hide in the shadows and speak through flaming plants. Don't any of you believers think it the slightest bit strange that your all powerful, all knowing god can't just appear to the world at once and put the whole matter to rest? Don't you find it strange that there was a flurry, almost daily amount of god<->man communication back in biblical times and yet we haven't heard a peep in thousands of years?

Let the rationalizations flow. "He could do that, but he doesn't WANT to show himself", "A thousand years is like a minute to him", "He doesn't need to prove anything to YOU", "You have to find HIM, not the other way around!", etc.

It's all just a giant, cosmic game of hide-and-go-seek I guess. :lol:


I've thought about that for years and years and no one can ever come up with an anwser for me on why he hasnt appeared.. someone once said maybe only the crazy people can see god and i said "oh, well then why are they in the mental hospitals if they aren't really crazy and really can see god?" once again got no answers
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Postby vtmarik on Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:22 pm

Backglass wrote:
OnlyAmbrose wrote:Atheism is equally irrational as theism is.


I love it when you guys try to paint Atheists as irrational, simply because we don't buy into the myths & deity's.

If gods existed, they would show themselves...not hide in the shadows and speak through flaming plants. Don't any of you believers think it the slightest bit strange that your all powerful, all knowing god can't just appear to the world at once and put the whole matter to rest? Don't you find it strange that there was a flurry, almost daily amount of god<->man communication back in biblical times and yet we haven't heard a peep in thousands of years?

Let the rationalizations flow. "He could do that, but he doesn't WANT to show himself", "A thousand years is like a minute to him", "He doesn't need to prove anything to YOU", "You have to find HIM, not the other way around!", etc.

It's all just a giant, cosmic game of hide-and-go-seek I guess. :lol:


The perceived irrationality of Atheism stems from the fact that you hold to a lack of belief with an almost religious amount of zeal. So eager to reject the notion of a supreme being as a "fairytale" that any other opinion becomes automatically wrong, much the same way that Christians reject the notion of no god.

Absolutism, from either angle, is dumb considering that nobody has all of the facts.
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Postby OnlyAmbrose on Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:28 pm

Like I said in the Agnostic thread, agnosticism is by far the most "rational" belief system. I think it's as far as you can get on human reason alone.
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Postby Norse on Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:39 pm

Well, sounds to me like you're clutching at straws.

But, then again, christianity has only ever been about changing their mind, scribbling this bit out, adding this, editing that, changing this and that, and then screwing it up and starting again.

Christianity once had a purpose to the elite of european nations, in controlling the populace....creating a consensus.

I see modern day christianity as a twisted version of this.

What a waste of a life.
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Postby salvadevinemasse on Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:43 pm

*watches intensely as a brawl might be about to occure*
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Postby MR. Nate on Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:21 pm

Norse wrote:
MR. Nate wrote:I sincerely believe that everyone who does not believe in Christ as their personal Saviour will spend eternity under torture.

I cannot simply say, "Well, if they want to go to hell, that's their problem" That would be akin to allowing a blind man stay in a burning building because he wants to finish supper.

They feel you are on your way to hell


I think this quite nicely sums up my point.


I am doomed
I need someone more enlightened than me to save me from myself
I am wrong in my believes

Has anyone ever told you that you lack tact and people skills?

Yes, people have. It goes without saying, however, that no matter the amount of tact or people skills I may or may not have personally, it is nigh impossible to communicate them in a digital format. Lets face it, if you can't communicate it with a :wink: a :shock: or a :roll: it's not going to work. But that is not what we are discussing here, so I'll move on.

Tthe question "Why are Christians so annoying" sent all the Christians into a flurry of "Not ME!" "Not ME!" "Not ME!" As a result, good intentioned but tactless Christians were getting shot down, and I was simply trying to express that particular point of view. Given the choice, I would much rather have a casual conversation with anyone on spirituality over coffee, preferably after we have known each other long enough for you to respect me as an individual. However, unless you're going to be in metro Detroit, it's going to be difficult.

vtmarik wrote:There's a massive chasm between discussing your faith and going up to someone and saying "Everything you have believed up to this point is wrong, you have to do this and only this can save you from eternal torture in hell."

Not exactly the best sales pitch is it?

How would you feel if some salesman came up to you and told you that if you didn't buy his company's vacuum cleaner that you were never going to live a full and successful life ever, and that you might as well give up on ever cleaning your house. Now imagine that there are dozens of these salesmen bothering you at the mall, in the street, and at your school; and nothing can dissuade them from giving you the same sales pitch no matter what you tell them. The only way that they will stop is if you buy their vacuum.


I'm not denying that it would be annoying, nor am I saying that they're going about accomplishing their goal the best way. I am saying that if they really believe it, they HAVE to do it in some form, regardless of your feelings. Now, I agree that if you had a friend who believed in the vacuum cleaners, and had a full and successful life, you would be more inclined to buy. However, since you shun such people based solely on their the fact they believe that vacuums are the key to success, it's going to be difficult for anyone to convince you through a relationship.

vtmarik wrote:I would prefer if they lived their lives in a way that allowed equal justice to all belief systems, rather than a theo-centric view that only their path is the right one.

Treat thy neighbor as thyself means that you don't belittle his beliefs lest he belittle yours.
While I don't mock other belief systems, I do hold to the opinion they are wrong. I suppose that could be categorized as "belittling" but beliefs are like loaded guns, you laugh at them only when you know no one is holding them. In addition, the VAST majority of the "belittling" that goes on is those who make the disparaging remarks TOWARD Christians *cough*(backglass)*cough*
All that being said, not all belief systems are equal, therefore, equal justice is probably not an option. I understand that your beliefs do not require you to convince anyone they are wrong. However, one of us IS wrong, and we all know that.
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Postby MR. Nate on Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:31 pm

Norse wrote: But, then again, christianity has only ever been about changing their mind, scribbling this bit out, adding this, editing that, changing this and that, and then screwing it up and starting again.

This is so one sided and vague I can't even begin to invest the necessary time to critique and rebut it.
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Postby OnlyAmbrose on Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:01 pm

Norse wrote:Well, sounds to me like you're clutching at straws.


What are you even talking about Norse? If you think I'm clutching at straws, then explain my fallacy. I'm just going to follow Mr. Nate's action - until you present an argument (which the above is not) which is even worth rebutting, I'm not even going to bother.
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Postby Norse on Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:03 pm

I've just had a quick read through my bible, and have come across a few flaws here.

Christianity is a religion in which events are claimed to have occured but which can never be proved. Those who practice it live by different morals than are preached by the most holy texts. It is an institution in which the most holy scripture is contradictory, and wherein the supreme being, by the very definition, cannot exist. Christianity is, therefore, a fundamentally flawed religion.

According to the Bible, events have occured which are even more miraculous than the resurection of Jesus Christ. Events such as the stopping of the sun by Joshua (Joshua 10:12-14), the reversal of the sun's course by Isaiah (Isaiah 38:7-8) , the resurrection of the saints, and their subsequent appearance to many (Matthew 27:52-53) were witnessed by thousands of people. The stopping and reversal of the sun would have been visible worldwide. The idea that people could have witnessed these events without having been amazed by them is, quite simply, ludicrous. Other cultures having witnessed this would certainly have offered their own explanations in keeping with their own cultural and religious beliefs. Surely a society existing at the time would have documented this miraculous event. Yet nowhere have such works been found. In the instance of the resurrection of the saints, Matthew is the only person to mention this occurence in the Bible. Surely other first-century Christians would have used this as further proof of Jesus' divinty. It would fall to reason that Paul and the gospels would have mentioned it. This is not, however, the case. Nowhere else in the Bible is this mentioned or even hinted at. These events are then, at best, highly unlikely to have occured. The fact that Matthew is alone in writing of the resurrection of the saints leads us to believe that certain writers of the Bible had differing views on christianity.
The christian Bible is highly contradictory, not just to modern day christian beliefs, but in and of itself. Today's society is of the belief that all people are created equal, and Christians submit that their god is of the same belief. Modern Christians believe that their god loves everyone, and that they are all equal. However, after Adam and Eve had eaten from the tree forbidden by god, this deity said to Eve "I will intensify the pangs of your childbearing; in pain shall you bring forth children. Yet your urge shall be for your husband, and he shall be your master." (Genesis 3:16). This tells us that, according to the Christian religion, women shall naturally be dominated by men. This kind of behavior is not conducive to a being who believes in inherent equality. Women are repeadtedly treated as objects and told to be submissive in the Bible. "According to the rule observed in all the assemblies of believers, women should keep silent in such gatherings. Rather, as the law indicates, submissiveness is indicated for them. If they want to learn anything, they should ask their husbands at home. It is a disgrace when a woman speaks in the assembly." (1 Corinthians 14:34-35). "Man was not made from woman but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman but woman for man. For this reason, a woman ought to have a sign of submission on her head." (1 Corinthians 11:8-10). The Bible also permits bondage. "Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess, provided you buy them from among neighboring the nations. You may also buy them from among the aliens who reside with you and from their children who are born and raised in their land. Such slaves you may own as chattels, and leave to your sons as their hereditary property, making them perpetual slaves." (Leviticus 25:44-46). This same Bible gives laws on the punishment of slaves. "When a man strikes his slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property." (Exodus 21:20-21) We find further examples of prejudice in Deuteronomy. In the Bible, it is stated that "No one whose testicles have been crushed or whose penis has been cut off may be admitted into the community of the Lord. No child of an incestuous or adulterous union may be admitted into the community of the Lord, nor any descendant of his even to the tenth generation." (Deuteronomy 23:2-3). Consider the first statement. If a faithful Christian were to get in an automobile accident with a resulting injury to his genitals, he would not be admitted into Heaven. The second statement is even more ridiculous than the first. An innocent child, through no fault of its own, is born a bastard. He may not be admitted into heaven. But more than that, none of his descendants may ever be admitted. These are not characteristics which are normally associated with justice and goodness. These are petty, cruel actions. This is not the only discrepancy in the christian Bible. Judah's daughter-in-law, Tamar, is said to have been a harlot (Genesis 38:24). Because of her harlotry, she became pregnant (Genesis 38:25). She had twins and named them Perez and Zerah. "These are the descendants of Perez: Perez was the father of Hezron, Hezron was the father of Ram, Ram was the father of Amminibad, Amminibad was the father of Nahshon, Nahshon was the father of Salmon, Salmon was the father of Boaz, Boaz was the father of Obed, Obed was the father of Jesse, and Jesse became the father of David." (Ruth 4:18-22). Therefore David, King of Israel, was a descendant of a bastard and subsequently should not have been allowed into the community the Lord. This is a huge contradiction, as David is such an important figure in the bible.

The contradiction involving David pales in comparison, however, to the one of the very definition of a supreme being. In Christianity, Christ is central in atoning for the sins of mankind. Had there been no sins of mankind, there would be no story of Christ. The nature of sin must then therefore be analysed. It is accepted by Christians that god created everything. If this is true, then this same god created evil. It is written in the Bible that god is all-knowing (1 John 3:20). God is, in effect, omniscient. If god is omniscient and creates, he then knows all possible outcomes of all possible creations of all possible universes. If he created our universe, he chose what its destiny would be. In doing so, he chose the paths of our lives. Thus, we can conclude that the universe is completely deterministic to god and, by being a creator, he cannot allow freewill to exist unless the universe is no longer predetermined to him. If this is true, then humanity is merely a collection of automotons. If this is not not true, then god cannot be omniscient.If the Christian god were omniscient, then he could foresee his own future. If this being knows its own future, he does not have the power to change it. Considering, however, that god is omnipotent, there is a major conflict with his omniscient nature. If god were able to change his future, that would mean that god would not be able to foresee when he would make sudden changes in his future and what changes would result, eliminating the possibility of his being omniscient. Therefore, these qualities cannot be held simultaneously by one being. It is important now to look at the possibility of omnipotence. The Christian god is perfectly good and omnipotent. Yet evil exists. If god is omnipotent and perfectly good, he could and would dispell evil. Three possible conclusions arise from these statements. God is perfectly good but evil exists, so he is not able to dispell evil and thus is not omnipotent. The second possible conclusion is this: that god is omnipotent but evil exists, and god is therefore not perfectly good. The last possible, and most feasible, conclusion is that god does not exist.
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