Is God really Just?

[jay_a2j]

Just as thousands of others have been THAT certain that they've died for their false idols? But no - the thousands/millions of others that have already given their lives... they don't know what the heck they were doing. Because YOU are certain...

What's amusing is such said feeling of certainty is said to be nothing more than a chemical reaction in the body. Just as scientists are researching as they believe they've found a certain chemical reaction in the body that controls the emotion of love... and it's not even in the heart! But all of that would be blasphemy... believe what your parents have told you!

Well if they died believing in Jesus Christ, they are with Him now. Christ is not a "false idol" He is God.

No, what's amusing is all you atheists coming up with anything and everything to explain things, apart from God. Chemicals in your brain creates "certainty" in people of faith.... ya ok. Chemicals create near death experiences in a persons mind....um ok. The universe created itself..... yada yada. "WE have to explain these things away because God could not possibly exist".

And then you assume that I was raised to believe what I believe when if fact I did not accept Christ until I was 13 years old. (and neither had my parents until then)

[FabledIntegral]

Just as thousands of others have been THAT certain that they've died for their false idols? But no - the thousands/millions of others that have already given their lives... they don't know what the heck they were doing. Because YOU are certain...

What's amusing is such said feeling of certainty is said to be nothing more than a chemical reaction in the body. Just as scientists are researching as they believe they've found a certain chemical reaction in the body that controls the emotion of love... and it's not even in the heart! But all of that would be blasphemy... believe what your parents have told you!

Well if they died believing in Jesus Christ, they are with Him now. Christ is not a "false idol" He is God.

No, what's amusing is all you atheists coming up with anything and everything to explain things, apart from God. Chemicals in your brain creates "certainty" in people of faith.... ya ok. Chemicals create near death experiences in a persons mind....um ok. The universe created itself..... yada yada. "WE have to explain these things away because God could not possibly exist".

And then you assume that I was raised to believe what I believe when if fact I did not accept Christ until I was 13 years old. (and neither had my parents until then)

I never said any of that - poor logic on your part.

[jay_a2j]

What's amusing is such said feeling of certainty is said to be nothing more than a chemical reaction in the body.

Really? You might want to recheck your own posts.

[FabledIntegral]

I believe you went off covering other things that I didn't refer to. I did read my own post, I've read yours, and I never said anything else.

[Haggis_McMutton]

No, what's amusing is all you atheists coming up with anything and everything to explain things, apart from God. Chemicals in your brain creates "certainty" in people of faith.... ya ok. Chemicals create near death experiences in a persons mind....um ok. The universe created itself..... yada yada. "WE have to explain these things away because God could not possibly exist".

Yes, all this explaining of things based on real observable phenomena is a bore.

Shit, i think a thunderstorm is coming.
We`d better start the sacrifice if we don`t want to lose our crops

[jay_a2j]

Just as thousands of others have been THAT certain that they've died for their false idols? But no - the thousands/millions of others that have already given their lives... they don't know what the heck they were doing. Because YOU are certain...

What's amusing is such said feeling of certainty is said to be nothing more than a chemical reaction in the body. Just as scientists are researching as they believe they've found a certain chemical reaction in the body that controls the emotion of love... and it's not even in the heart! But all of that would be blasphemy... believe what your parents have told you!

Actually, you said a lot. Yeah, I added other things I have heard atheists say, rationalizing everything just so that don't have to even contemplate that there might be a God. What's your point? You have done the same thing they all do.... grasp at straws just so they don't have to admit what, deep down, they already know.

[joecoolfrog]

Jay Isnt being a Smug supposed know it all a sin....what a bummer if you get blown out on a technicality

Jokes aside you actually know nothing concrete about an afterlife, you just have a hunch, its you thats gambling and you are a fool to think you have backed a sure thing.

[jay_a2j]

Jay Isnt being a Smug supposed know it all a sin....what a bummer if you get blown out on a technicality

Jokes aside you actually know nothing concrete about an afterlife, you just have a hunch, its you thats gambling and you are a fool to think you have backed a sure thing.

I wouldn't stake my life on a "hunch".

[joecoolfrog]

Jay Isnt being a Smug supposed know it all a sin....what a bummer if you get blown out on a technicality

Jokes aside you actually know nothing concrete about an afterlife, you just have a hunch, its you thats gambling and you are a fool to think you have backed a sure thing.

I wouldn't stake my life on a "hunch".

Oh dear

[radiojake]

Jay Isnt being a Smug supposed know it all a sin....what a bummer if you get blown out on a technicality

Jokes aside you actually know nothing concrete about an afterlife, you just have a hunch, its you thats gambling and you are a fool to think you have backed a sure thing.

I wouldn't stake my life on a "hunch".

You're not, just your 'afterlife'

[FabledIntegral]

Just as thousands of others have been THAT certain that they've died for their false idols? But no - the thousands/millions of others that have already given their lives... they don't know what the heck they were doing. Because YOU are certain...

What's amusing is such said feeling of certainty is said to be nothing more than a chemical reaction in the body. Just as scientists are researching as they believe they've found a certain chemical reaction in the body that controls the emotion of love... and it's not even in the heart! But all of that would be blasphemy... believe what your parents have told you!

Actually, you said a lot. Yeah, I added other things I have heard atheists say, rationalizing everything just so that don't have to even contemplate that there might be a God. What's your point? You have done the same thing they all do.... grasp at straws just so they don't have to admit what, deep down, they already know.

How can you possibly fathom such. You are so sure of yourself, so arrogant and prideful that you are right. Ok, that's fine, but then you think you can come in say that I'm denying what "I know to be true deep down?" Oh gimme a break - what fucking idiot wouldn't want to believe in God if he knew that he existed? Who really wants to spend eternity in hell? Did you not read my posts earlier - I was a devout Christian for quite the few years. However, as much as I tried and wanted a relationship with this so called God, he never gave it to me. Just because somehow you believe you have this relationship with him... well don't assume that deep down I believe I can have one. Because I don't - I waited 2-3 years, and if he's real, he didn't want me.

[jay_a2j]

Just as thousands of others have been THAT certain that they've died for their false idols? But no - the thousands/millions of others that have already given their lives... they don't know what the heck they were doing. Because YOU are certain...

What's amusing is such said feeling of certainty is said to be nothing more than a chemical reaction in the body. Just as scientists are researching as they believe they've found a certain chemical reaction in the body that controls the emotion of love... and it's not even in the heart! But all of that would be blasphemy... believe what your parents have told you!

Actually, you said a lot. Yeah, I added other things I have heard atheists say, rationalizing everything just so that don't have to even contemplate that there might be a God. What's your point? You have done the same thing they all do.... grasp at straws just so they don't have to admit what, deep down, they already know.

How can you possibly fathom such. You are so sure of yourself, so arrogant and prideful that you are right. Ok, that's fine, but then you think you can come in say that I'm denying what "I know to be true deep down?" Oh gimme a break - what fucking idiot wouldn't want to believe in God if he knew that he existed? Who really wants to spend eternity in hell? Did you not read my posts earlier - I was a devout Christian for quite the few years. However, as much as I tried and wanted a relationship with this so called God, he never gave it to me. Just because somehow you believe you have this relationship with him... well don't assume that deep down I believe I can have one. Because I don't - I waited 2-3 years, and if he's real, he didn't want me.

What you are calling arrogance is actually, certainty. Do you actually believe that I would boast about "being right"? The only reason I post in this forum is because I don't want any of you to end up in the lake of fire. May all glory and honor go to Jesus, not me. Being here is like driving as a passenger in a car and coming to a fork in the road. As much as I know that the right road leads to a cliff and that the left road is the safe route and no matter how much I yell, "Stay to the left!", the driver insists on going right. Yet I keep coming back here, even with the daily criticism. I do this not for the satisfaction of being "right", rather out of my desire that you would know God. I don't comprehend "was a devout Christian". How can any man who knows God all of the sudden not believe in Him? God desires that none would perish. So, God not wanting you has never and will never be the case. You can have a relationship with God, but on His terms not yours. "Confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead and you will be saved" but it has to be sinsear.

[Shark2112]

There is no proof that Jesus Christ was God's son. A great leader of his time, yes I might agree with the facts on that, but God's son, ...ask a jew what they think,

Being atheist myself- The truth is WITHIN, meaning I can only control what I do, and feel and think - therefore God must be within me too, as I believe it (He) is in us all and everything.

But you cannot touch, see feel or hear God -that's why some of us question the existance of the God that Christianity presents us with. The bible is great because it is full of stories of people who learnt to be good or better people through actions and consequences. It tries to teach us to be a good person by example. It tries to prepare us for what's ahead by knowing how to act before hand. Treat others as you would have yourself be treated.. Be happy, love lots dismiss evil and temptation..ect I don't think it was meant to be taken literally- any intelligent person can see that it is a story, not based on fact. (ex- Genesis where humans lives hundreds of years ect..i could go on)

Humans don't learn from their mistakes - there will always be greed and war and famine and bigotry and that's why the question of the truth will always be sought after. -

The answer is in ourselves. Sometimes it's hard to find, but it's there;p and my point is if you know that YOU are a good person, lead by example and see who follows along.
It is not your/our fault that there are horrible things going on in the world. It is not God's fault. We can feel good about ourselves knowing that we have goodness in our hearts despite the fact that others may not. HOld on to that.

[Juan_Bottom]

"WE have to explain these things away because God could not possibly exist".

I was a Lutheran. Now I am embarrassed to admit it. I started reading The Iliad one day, and a weird question popped into my head. How do we know that this story is a fake? Suddenly, I was wondering how we knew that the Bible is a true story. It snowballed from there and I refused to be confirmed. It was a town scandal! But I felt retarded every Sunday for going to church.

In all the religion threads we have had going, the Atheists/Agnostics always win the arguments. Jay! All you have is belief. Nothing else.

All the answers you get from the Bible are a little too simplistic wont you please agree? Like simple rules to cover up the fact that nothing divine, or evil, from heaven or hell has been witnessed since Jesus(alegedly)?
Example: God can't reveal himself anymore because of free will.

When you die, you get the best and most perfect rewards------sounds like the easy answer to me.

[jay_a2j]

"WE have to explain these things away because God could not possibly exist".

I was a Lutheran. Now I am embarrassed to admit it. I started reading The Iliad one day, and a weird question popped into my head. How do we know that this story is a fake? Suddenly, I was wondering how we knew that the Bible is a true story. It snowballed from there and I refused to be confirmed. It was a town scandal! But I felt retarded every Sunday for going to church.

In all the religion threads we have had going, the Atheists/Agnostics always win the arguments. Jay! All you have is belief. Nothing else.

All the answers you get from the Bible are a little too simplistic wont you please agree? Like simple rules to cover up the fact that nothing divine, or evil, from heaven or hell has been witnessed since Jesus(alegedly)?
Example: God can't reveal himself anymore because of free will.

When you die, you get the best and most perfect rewards------sounds like the easy answer to me.

Shark2112 I respect your views that you put out. I disagree with them but they were stated in a respectful way and I give you props. We could debate the instances in scripture that most certainly point to Jesus as the Son of God, if you would like.


Juan, define "win". Show me one post that that proves anything I have said to be false. How do we know that the Bible is true? Test it. There are countless predictions in the Bible that have already come to pass. Many more are starting to take place right now. If all I had was "belief", I wouldn't be in here saying this stuff. Nothing divine has been witnessed since Jesus? Surely you jest. Gods power has been seen all over the world. God reveals himself to people all the time, as I am one. Which is why when faced with the choice, deny Christ or die, I would choose death. This isn't like believing in Big Foot, you can really know your creator. But it requires faith.


When I die, I get to spend eternity with my creator, that is the only reward I am looking forward to. Those who choose to live without God in this life, will be granted the same in the next.

[MeDeFe]

The answer is in ourselves. Sometimes it's hard to find, but it's there;p and my point is if you know that YOU are a good person, lead by example and see who follows along.
It is not your/our fault that there are horrible things going on in the world. It is not God's fault. We can feel good about ourselves knowing that we have goodness in our hearts despite the fact that others may not. Hold on to that.

Except that it is our fault. We see it and do nothing, or far less than we could do, to prevent it. If you see a child drowning and do not save the child though you could, the consequences of your actions make you as guilty as if you had thrown the child into the water. The same applies for hunger and poverty, there are enough resources on this planet to sustain 12 billion people, we're still a long way from reaching that number, and yet 850 million are starving. By knowing this but not doing all we can to prevent it we are guilty of their suffering and their deaths.

[Backglass]

Shit, i think a thunderstorm is coming.
We`d better start the sacrifice if we don`t want to lose our crops

Amazing how short a distance the human race has come isn't it.

When that thunderstorm rips the roof off of jay's house, he will pray for forgiveness as, in his mind, his gods must have been angry with him or testing him for some mysterious reason.

It's absolutely primitive, yet he will gleefully mock ancient religions that did the exact same thing. Only the names & gods have changed. The thought process is still the same as the cavemen.

[joecoolfrog]

"WE have to explain these things away because God could not possibly exist".

I was a Lutheran. Now I am embarrassed to admit it. I started reading The Iliad one day, and a weird question popped into my head. How do we know that this story is a fake? Suddenly, I was wondering how we knew that the Bible is a true story. It snowballed from there and I refused to be confirmed. It was a town scandal! But I felt retarded every Sunday for going to church.

In all the religion threads we have had going, the Atheists/Agnostics always win the arguments. Jay! All you have is belief. Nothing else.

All the answers you get from the Bible are a little too simplistic wont you please agree? Like simple rules to cover up the fact that nothing divine, or evil, from heaven or hell has been witnessed since Jesus(alegedly)?
Example: God can't reveal himself anymore because of free will.

When you die, you get the best and most perfect rewards------sounds like the easy answer to me.

I was about 13 and singing a hymn when it suddenly dawned on me that the words made no sense, after that I started asking questions and kept being told things like ' God moves in mysterious ways ' . How somebody like Jay can deny evolution because of the odd loose thread yet swallow the Old Testament whole is simply an extraordinary example of seeing only what one wants to see,its really rather sad.

[suggs]

I don't think you are really a Xian, anyway jay.
You don't seem to post acording to the moral precepts of love and tolerance for everyone, so I doubt you live by it.
Get rid of all the apocalyptic nonsense, and live by the teachings of Jesus, and you'd prob be a rather nice bloke.
Instead, you seem to live by the precepts of St.Paul, who was a bigoted moron.

[Snorri1234]

Well if they died believing in Jesus Christ, they are with Him now. Christ is not a "false idol" He is God.

And if they happened to be born before Christ, or lived in a part of the world where christianity didn't come they're rotting in hell now. Christ is not a false idol unlike all the other idols and gods people have and still believe in, he's really actually God. He said so himself! (And if we can't trust someone who claims he is speaking the truth, then who can we trust?)

[Juan_Bottom]

Juan, define "win".

Christians end up only being able to use the Bible as their argument, and before you know it it's just a bunch of Atheist/Agnostics arguing dark matter. Kinda like here where your whole argument revolves around the Bible.

How do we know that the Bible is true? Test it. There are countless predictions in the Bible that have already come to pass.

Name them. And none of the predictions that had to be interpretted. None of the vauge political ones, and none of those that came true during the Bible's inception please. I grew up debating this, dude, so I am already ready for what I think that you will say.

Many more are starting to take place right now.

The same!, Interpretted ones? Give me a thousand years and I bet that any prediction that I want to make would come true too.
If God were God he could just say; Dr. Pepper will be a great tasting Cola, in a thousand years. But no, he has to be vauge and mysterious. A God has no reason to hide.

I wouldn't be in here saying this stuff. Nothing divine has been witnessed since Jesus? Surely you jest.

Sorry, I forgot that sulfer rained down on Quincy, Illinois last Tuesday. Sodomizers!
No presence of Angels, Demons, anything has been witnessed. And I always have a camera ready.
The only evidence Christians have is only accepted by Christians.

Gods power has been seen all over the world. God reveals himself to people all the time, as I am one.

Then God isn't just, and therefore isn't a Christian God. He has no reason to hide, if he is a god. Why, Oh Why, would he only reveal himself to super-Christians? And why never en masse? It's just an easy answer.

Which is why when faced with the choice, deny Christ or die, I would choose death.

Please tell me that at least at some point in your life you questioned Christianity? The Bible says that a good Christian will question their faith. Surely then you still feel some of these same doubts that you presumably had before.

This isn't like believing in Big Foot, you can really know your creator.

Bigfoot is more credible than God. I have never seen a tape of an Angel making it onto the 6 O'Clock news. Never seen a tape of a demon jumping out of a Ouija board either. Over time Jay, faith in your God is disappearing, and it's not because of the End Times.

But it requires faith.

Because in the end, there is nothing else to support the Bible. You might as well have faith in The Iliad.

[rocky mountain]

Name them. And none of the predictions that had to be interpretted. None of the vauge political ones, and none of those that came true during the Bible's inception please. I grew up debating this, dude, so I am already ready for what I think that you will say.

i believe i have one...:

But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God - having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.

in bold are things pretty much true today. as it gets worse the end times will get nearer. i think it will be in maybe a century? we have no way of knowing for sure though... it is a prophecy coming true...

No presence of Angels, Demons, anything has been witnessed

false. demons have been seen, just not by you. people think they have been helped by angels (in duisguise) but no one has solid proof of that, at least no solid enought for you. i do believe demons have been spotted though.

Why, Oh Why, would he only reveal himself to super-Christians?

to super Christians? he's revealed himself to Muslims, and they've turned to christianity. he's showed himself to a native tribe that had no christian influence beforehand, and they turned as well. dreams, and visions happen all the time, but we never really hear about them. they happen.

The Bible says that a good Christian will question their faith.

where does it say that? i'm not saying it doesn't say it, i would just like to know...

Bigfoot is more credible than God. I have never seen a tape of an Angel making it onto the 6 O'Clock news. Never seen a tape of a demon jumping out of a Ouija board either. Over time Jay, faith in your God is disappearing, and it's not because of the End Times.

you can't totally see angels or demons. they hide themselves, and they are spirits. they can't be seen all the time. i know you're going to say something about that... "there's no proof." you may think that but i don't. lets not go any further in this topic...

evolution requires some faith. there is no way of knowing the universe came from a big bang, but you believe it (or some people do). there is no way of knowing how dinosaurs died, but many believe it was an asteroid. you have faith and you believe it. to all atheists, you have faith there is no God. we have faith there is. many things require faith. you may think you have more proof there isn't a God, but you have no more proof than us. many things require faith. Christians have strong faith there is a God.

[FabledIntegral]

Evolution does not require any faith whatsoever. It required a logical analysis of the situation based on the tangible evidence we have in the natural world, with numerous tests and observations on the subject, and a theory has been postulated. Rarely do you find a person who believes in macroevolution to believe that it's been proven - it's merely the most likely solution. No faith whatsoever, it's not like I believe in evolution with all my being. I accept every fault in the theory and would be just as willing to toss it out the window if something else came along that contradicted it.

The difference with the Bible is that you don't change the Bible as new evidence comes along, instead you have to change the new evidence so that it still works with the Bible.

[Snorri1234]

Name them. And none of the predictions that had to be interpretted. None of the vauge political ones, and none of those that came true during the Bible's inception please. I grew up debating this, dude, so I am already ready for what I think that you will say.

i believe i have one...:

But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God - having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.

in bold are things pretty much true today. as it gets worse the end times will get nearer. i think it will be in maybe a century? we have no way of knowing for sure though... it is a prophecy coming true...

Oh no doubt they are true today.

They have also been true for pretty much all of human history and probably will continue till the day we die.


Honestly, if you are going to point out a part of the bible where they talk about basic human nature then I feel bad for your argument. If I write a prophecy about how in the future there will be a time where there is a war and people will be dicks to eachother and like power and wealth and have lots of sex, are you going to be amazed by my predicting abilities?

No presence of Angels, Demons, anything has been witnessed

false. demons have been seen, just not by you. people think they have been helped by angels (in duisguise) but no one has solid proof of that, at least no solid enought for you. i do believe demons have been spotted though.

Bigfoot, leprachauns and aliens have also been spotted countless of times but miraculously their proof wasn't solid either.

Why, Oh Why, would he only reveal himself to super-Christians?

to super Christians? he's revealed himself to Muslims, and they've turned to christianity. he's showed himself to a native tribe that had no christian influence beforehand, and they turned as well. dreams, and visions happen all the time, but we never really hear about them. they happen.

He never revealed himself to a rather large portion of the whole populace though. Those people who are worshipping false gods or idols.

evolution requires some faith. there is no way of knowing the universe came from a big bang, but you believe it (or some people do).

The big bang is unrelated to believing in evolution. Evolution is proven fact. The big bang is just a valid and very likely explanation.

there is no way of knowing how dinosaurs died, but many believe it was an asteroid.

Mostly because it's reasonable. Dinosaurs all of a sudden died when a large meteor hit the earth and plants died a lot and stuff like that.

[Juan_Bottom]

ROCKYMOUNTAIN, I had a feeling you were going to call out "the Tiger." You're not the type to sit back and take anything. Good for you.

II Timothy 3:1-5 wrote:
But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God - having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them. in bold are things pretty much true today. as it gets worse the end times will get nearer. i think it will be in maybe a century? we have no way of knowing for sure though... it is a prophecy coming true...

No, I don't believe it. Firstly, this has to be interpreted. Plus, the world isn't like this everywhere. Secondly, this has always been true(open to interpretation isn't it?) of some place on earth. plus If God were God he could just say, "hey, don't be in Jeruselam on the 14th, ok? You wouldn't need anything to be vauge.

false. demons have been seen, just not by you. people think they have been helped by angels (in duisguise) but no one has solid proof of that, at least no solid enought for you. i do believe demons have been spotted though.

False. Remember the Leprechans?

you can't totally see angels or demons. they hide themselves, and they are spirits. they can't be seen all the time. i know you're going to say something about that... "there's no proof." you may think that but i don't. lets not go any further in this topic...

evolution requires some faith. there is no way of knowing the universe came from a big bang, but you believe it (or some people do). there is no way of knowing how dinosaurs died, but many believe it was an asteroid. you have faith and you believe it. to all atheists, you have faith there is no God. we have faith there is. many things require faith. you may think you have more proof there isn't a God, but you have no more proof than us. many things require faith. Christians have strong faith there is a God.

I'm not going to say exactly what you predicted. I'm going to repeat myself. "You can't totally see.." is just another easy answer. Everything in the Christian world is intangable, invisible, unmeasurable, and unrecorded(no one saved any of that sulfer that rained down from the sky, or Jesus's slippers).

Yes I do have more proof than you. In fact I have proof, while you, so far as I can see, have none. Evolution(as per your example) is tangible, testable, measurable, visible, and most importantly, scientifically recorded.

So again, the argument circles back to faith. It's all a Christian has.-->not an insult.

And as far as dinosaurs go, I am of the mind that they became birds. Screw that asteroid crap.