Jesus Freaks...why do you believe?

[Ray Rider]

WOW, this thread is STILL going?!?

Yup...and it will go on forever as long as people can't face the fact the death is permanent.

But then what would we have to argue about?

Exactly. If you truly believe there is no God and that death is THE END, why discuss it? From the athieistic standpoint, what you and I believe won't matter once we're dead, so why debate about it? It's utterly pointless and not even worth the breath and effort spent discussing it. It doesn't make any difference what other people think, say, or do; the only thing that matters is that you enjoy yourself as much as possible during the years you have on earth, because when you're dead it's game over.

If the Christian is right, what a person believes is of paramount importance, both for ourselves and for those around us. We have been saved from an eternity without God (spiritual death), and recognize that we must tell others so that they too can be saved. It is only our concern for the eternal safety of others that compels us to tell everyone about the way of salvation.

[Juan_Bottom]

WOW, this thread is STILL going?!?

Yup...and it will go on forever as long as people can't face the fact the death is permanent.

But then what would we have to argue about?

Exactly. If you truly believe there is no God and that death is THE END, why discuss it? From the athieistic standpoint, what you and I believe won't matter once we're dead, so why debate about it? It's utterly pointless and not even worth the breath and effort spent discussing it. It doesn't make any difference what other people think, say, or do; the only thing that matters is that you enjoy yourself as much as possible during the years you have on earth, because when you're dead it's game over.

If the Christian is right, what a person believes is of paramount importance, both for ourselves and for those around us. We have been saved from an eternity without God (spiritual death), and recognize that we must tell others so that they too can be saved. It is only our concern for the eternal safety of others that compels us to tell everyone about the way of salvation.

Because it is as annoying as hell. Christians running around and 'saving" other people. Or, I would say, converting them to stupid. You just wanna shake people and scream 'WHY ARE YOU SO DUMB!!!!!!!'

At least, that's how I feel. Honestly, no offence ment.

[Gregrios]

WOW, this thread is STILL going?!?

Yup...and it will go on forever as long as people can't face the fact the death is permanent.

But then what would we have to argue about?

Exactly. If you truly believe there is no God and that death is THE END, why discuss it? From the athieistic standpoint, what you and I believe won't matter once we're dead, so why debate about it? It's utterly pointless and not even worth the breath and effort spent discussing it. It doesn't make any difference what other people think, say, or do; the only thing that matters is that you enjoy yourself as much as possible during the years you have on earth, because when you're dead it's game over.

If the Christian is right, what a person believes is of paramount importance, both for ourselves and for those around us. We have been saved from an eternity without God (spiritual death), and recognize that we must tell others so that they too can be saved. It is only our concern for the eternal safety of others that compels us to tell everyone about the way of salvation.

Because it is as annoying as hell. Atheists running around and 'damning" other people. Or, I would say, converting them to stupid. You just wanna shake people and scream 'WHY ARE YOU SO HUMBLE!!!!!!!'

At least, that's how I feel. Honestly, offence ment.

[Juan_Bottom]

Those are fighting words.

?

[Snorri1234]

WOW, this thread is STILL going?!?

Yup...and it will go on forever as long as people can't face the fact the death is permanent.

But then what would we have to argue about?

Exactly. If you truly believe there is no God and that death is THE END, why discuss it? From the athieistic standpoint, what you and I believe won't matter once we're dead, so why debate about it? It's utterly pointless and not even worth the breath and effort spent discussing it. It doesn't make any difference what other people think, say, or do; the only thing that matters is that you enjoy yourself as much as possible during the years you have on earth, because when you're dead it's game over.

If the Christian is right, what a person believes is of paramount importance, both for ourselves and for those around us. We have been saved from an eternity without God (spiritual death), and recognize that we must tell others so that they too can be saved. It is only our concern for the eternal safety of others that compels us to tell everyone about the way of salvation.

Hah!

[xerro]

1. God is omniscient. Ok if that's true then why did he create Satan knowing that he would one day rebel? Doesn't that mean that God indirectly created evil? Then how could He be considered a good God. Also why did he allow for man to eat the apple? That seems a little cruel to me - sort of like teasing a child into doing something that's bad for them.

2. If God is all powerful then why doesn't he just show himself to everyone? Either that or perform some miracle which would prove to everyone once and for all that he is actually interested in us. I think he exists by the way, but Christians tell us that he loves us. Why doesn't he get involved in all the wars here and put an end to them all? I don't think anyone can prove that this supreme being is really directly interested in our affairs.

3. Since Christians believe in free will, then why do they constantly want to legislate morality? Shouldn't people be free to do pretty much what they want as long as it conforms to the law or aren't killing anyone?

4. From what I'm reading on here it sounds like that someone can live the absolute worst life but then 'accept' Jesus (whatever that means) and still go to heaven (wherever that is). On the flip side, someone can live the absolute best life but not 'accept' Jesus and still go to hell. Huh!!! Oh yeah, and how can a loving God send someone to hell in the first place?

If any Jesus Freaks or Christians want to discuss this I will listen and not call you a name or make fun of you. My position is that there is some type of God or supreme being but it's impossible to personally know him as he stopped caring about us or is apathetic. I await any of you.

1. God created us to have free will. if there is only God, then there isnt another choice... so there had to be a Satan...

2. God gave us free will, so wars and what not arnt because of his will. its because of our choices..... so if he got involved in our wars, then he'd be taking away our free will which is what he gave us to begin with....

3. we all have free will, so we can choose things of God, or of Satan... we have the choice.. we choose God- we get heaven... We choose Satan- we get hell....

4. yes, thats true.... in the end, its about your heart. Hitler could be in heaven right now. if he was truely sorry for what he did and asked God to forgive him, then he'd be there... idk

God created man with a choice... the fruit was there, so we could all have a choice...
when adam let eve take that fruit, it was his and her choice.... stan chose to leave God...
every thing that has happend, is because of choice.... if God didnt give us a choice, then we wouldnt be human, we'd be robots.
this is too long, we should start a new thread...

[MeDeFe]

How would it take away our free will if god would prove beyond all doubt that he exists?

[Gregrios]

How would it take away our free will if god would prove beyond all doubt that he exists?

.... because free will is God's way of filtering out the insincere from entering the kingdom of Heaven.

[Snorri1234]

How would it take away our free will if god would prove beyond all doubt that he exists?

.... because free will is God's way of filtering out the insincere from entering the kingdom of Heaven.

But.....we would still have the choice not to believe in him, right?

I mean, plenty of people don't believe in things which are proven fact, so I don't see a problem there.

And even when they would believe in him, that doesn't automatically mean they would follow him.

[Backglass]

we can choose things of God, or of Satan... we have the choice.. we choose God- we get heaven... We choose Satan- we get hell....

Or you can cast aside superstition and myth in favor of reality.

Magical gods & satans are in the same category as fairys, leprechauns and the kraken.

[Mr_Adams]

we can choose things of God, or of Satan... we have the choice.. we choose God- we get heaven... We choose Satan- we get hell....

Or you can cast aside superstition and myth in favor of reality.

Magical gods & satans are in the same category as fairys, leprechauns and the kraken.

only in YOUR mind.

[Backglass]

we can choose things of God, or of Satan... we have the choice.. we choose God- we get heaven... We choose Satan- we get hell....

Or you can cast aside superstition and myth in favor of reality.

Magical gods & satans are in the same category as fairys, leprechauns and the kraken.

only in YOUR mind.

Actually...in more & more peoples minds. Your rituals and superstitions will fade and die out as well eventually as the human race evolves...just like the thousands of religions in history past.

Sacrificed any virgins to the Sun God lately?

[Gregrios]

And even when they would believe in him, that doesn't automatically mean they would follow him.

That's true.

What's your point?

[xerro]

How would it take away our free will if god would prove beyond all doubt that he exists?

God has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt he exists.... time after time again....
just seek him. if you honestly seek him and who he is, it is impossible to not see him...
there is this ex- atheist, i forgot his name, but he got pissed off and tired of christians, so he went to once and for all to prove God doesnt exist...
he went all around the world and studied everything he could that could prove god didnt exist....
he wrote a book about it, his journal.... and after ten years, he published the book...
at the end of the book, he said no matter what he did to prove God didnt exist, no matter where he looked, every peice of evidence he saw, proved that God exists...
now, he's some big christian author dude....

[xerro]

we can choose things of God, or of Satan... we have the choice.. we choose God- we get heaven... We choose Satan- we get hell....

Or you can cast aside superstition and myth in favor of reality.

Magical gods & satans are in the same category as fairys, leprechauns and the kraken.

this is the reality, look at it like this...
i say there is a stop sign at the end of the road. you say there isnt a stop sign, but none of us can see it, cuzz there's this turn in the road......
one of us is right, one of us is wrong. both of us cant be right... either there is a stop sign, or there isnt, but we cant see it to determine if its there....
eventually, both of us will have made it to the end of the road and we'll both be able to see if there is a stop sign...

this isnt superstition, this is reality....

and what do you got against the kraken?!?!?!?!?!?!



and its not magical gods, its magical God..... its not plural...

[MeDeFe]

And even when they would believe in him, that doesn't automatically mean they would follow him.

That's true.
What's your point?

That the "insincere" would still be filtered out, maybe?
You know, my definition of "free will" does not include the line "can only be had if you don't have any evidence for god", seems to be different for you, though.

[Haggis_McMutton]

How would it take away our free will if god would prove beyond all doubt that he exists?

God has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt he exists.... time after time again....
just seek him. if you honestly seek him and who he is, it is impossible to not see him...
there is this ex- atheist, i forgot his name, but he got pissed off and tired of christians, so he went to once and for all to prove God doesnt exist...
he went all around the world and studied everything he could that could prove god didnt exist....
he wrote a book about it, his journal.... and after ten years, he published the book...
at the end of the book, he said no matter what he did to prove God didnt exist, no matter where he looked, every peice of evidence he saw, proved that God exists...
now, he's some big christian author dude....

Yeah, right, and Darwin became a Christian on his deathbed...

Since it is impossible to prove a negative, it means that "everything that could prove god didnt exist" = nothing.

[Gregrios]

And even when they would believe in him, that doesn't automatically mean they would follow him.

That's true.
What's your point?

That the "insincere" would still be filtered out, maybe?
You know, my definition of "free will" does not include the line "can only be had if you don't have any evidence for god", seems to be different for you, though.

You must truly be getting desperate.

[MeDeFe]

And even when they would believe in him, that doesn't automatically mean they would follow him.

That's true.
What's your point?

That the "insincere" would still be filtered out, maybe?
You know, my definition of "free will" does not include the line "can only be had if you don't have any evidence for god", seems to be different for you, though.

You must truly be getting desperate.

But at least you're not a big idiot who likes to lick yellow, smiley faces

How am I getting desperate? I think it's a legitimate question, exactly how would free will be impossible if god were to prove that he exists? Even with that piece of information we would still be making up our own minds about how to act, wouldn't we?

[Gregrios]

And even when they would believe in him, that doesn't automatically mean they would follow him.

That's true.
What's your point?

That the "insincere" would still be filtered out, maybe?
You know, my definition of "free will" does not include the line "can only be had if you don't have any evidence for god", seems to be different for you, though.

You must truly be getting desperate.

But at least you're not a big idiot who likes to lick yellow, smiley faces

How am I getting desperate? I think it's a legitimate question, exactly how would free will be impossible if god were to prove that he exists? Even with that piece of information we would still be making up our own minds about how to act, wouldn't we?

Is this where I'm suppose to ignore the fact that all you're doing is being patronizing?

[Snorri1234]

Is this where I'm suppose to ignore the fact that all you're doing is being patronizing?

No, this is where you use that dusty brain of yours and actually think before you post.


Free will means we can decide what we want and think ourselves, and god can't interfere.

So if God showed up at my party or something, it still wouldn't make free will void because he can't actually interfere with it. So therefore free will isn't taken away when he shows himself, because people can still do whatever the hell they want.

[Gregrios]

Is this where I'm suppose to ignore the fact that all you're doing is being patronizing?

No, this is where you use that dusty brain of yours and actually think before you post.


Free will means we can decide what we want and think ourselves, and god can't interfere.

So if God showed up at my party or something, it still wouldn't make free will void because he can't actually interfere with it. So therefore free will isn't taken away when he shows himself, because people can still do whatever the hell they want.

I can't figure out who it is you're talking to.

.... cause it certainly isn't me.

[Frigidus]

this is the reality, look at it like this...
i say there is a stop sign at the end of the road. you say there isnt a stop sign, but none of us can see it, cuzz there's this turn in the road......
one of us is right, one of us is wrong. both of us cant be right... either there is a stop sign, or there isnt, but we cant see it to determine if its there....
eventually, both of us will have made it to the end of the road and we'll both be able to see if there is a stop sign...

It's kind of more like you saying that there's a hippopotamus at the end of the road. I mean, I guess it could be there, but really? What makes you think this? That, in a way, is a more polite way of saying what Backglass is saying...I hope it's more polite at least, it could be totally rude. I'm bad at this sort of thing.

[Backglass]

It's kind of more like you saying that there's a hippopotamus at the end of the road. I mean, I guess it could be there, but really? What makes you think this?

Not just any Hippo, but a magical, all knowing, all seeing, immortal Hippo. I like it!

Yeah, right, and Darwin became a Christian on his deathbed...

Exactly. How many weeks will pass before the religious propaganda emails start flying about George Carlin becoming a christian on his deathbed?

I say before the end of the year.

[Snorri1234]

Is this where I'm suppose to ignore the fact that all you're doing is being patronizing?

No, this is where you use that dusty brain of yours and actually think before you post.


Free will means we can decide what we want and think ourselves, and god can't interfere.

So if God showed up at my party or something, it still wouldn't make free will void because he can't actually interfere with it. So therefore free will isn't taken away when he shows himself, because people can still do whatever the hell they want.

I can't figure out who it is you're talking to.

.... cause it certainly isn't me.

It certainly is, you pitifull excuse for a human.