4th Great Awakening in American History

[Maugena]

General Welfare is very unspecific.
And that alone is enough of an argument for the government providing health care.
It may not be technically written in as a power, but the interpretation of the Constitution is how this country moves forward and it is what determines the direction of this country.
You honestly cannot deny that the Constitution is interpreted constantly. We all are aware of what the Supreme Court does.

Yet I will say that the government forcing us to pay for an actual insurance plan instead of just taxing us and giving us the option of using it is not acceptable.

[Phatscotty]

General Welfare is very unspecific.
And that alone is enough of an argument for the government providing health care.
It may not be technically written in as a power, but the interpretation of the Constitution is how this country moves forward and it is what determines the direction of this country.
You honestly cannot deny that the Constitution is interpreted constantly. We all are aware of what the Supreme Court does.

Yet I will say that the government forcing us to pay for an actual insurance plan instead of just taxing us and giving us the option of using it is not acceptable.

we are also well aware that in the consitution, the words "shall not" and "no" is listed over 30 times concerning restrictions on the gov't. and there are over 20 "nos" and "shall nots" etc... in the Bill of Rights.

[Maugena]

General Welfare is very unspecific.
And that alone is enough of an argument for the government providing health care.
It may not be technically written in as a power, but the interpretation of the Constitution is how this country moves forward and it is what determines the direction of this country.
You honestly cannot deny that the Constitution is interpreted constantly. We all are aware of what the Supreme Court does.

Yet I will say that the government forcing us to pay for an actual insurance plan instead of just taxing us and giving us the option of using it is not acceptable.

we are also well aware that in the consitution, the words "shall not" and "no" is listed over 30 times concerning restrictions on the gov't. and there are over 20 "nos" and "shall nots" etc... in the Bill of Rights.

Are you entering the discussion or throwing out trivia?

[King Doctor]

Are you entering the discussion or throwing out trivia?

Neither. He's actually just smashing his head up and down on his keyboard and seeing what his quicklinks setup throws out.

[Phatscotty]

General Welfare is very unspecific.
And that alone is enough of an argument for the government providing health care.
It may not be technically written in as a power, but the interpretation of the Constitution is how this country moves forward and it is what determines the direction of this country.
You honestly cannot deny that the Constitution is interpreted constantly. We all are aware of what the Supreme Court does.

Yet I will say that the government forcing us to pay for an actual insurance plan instead of just taxing us and giving us the option of using it is not acceptable.

we are also well aware that in the consitution, the words "shall not" and "no" is listed over 30 times concerning restrictions on the gov't. and there are over 20 "nos" and "shall nots" etc... in the Bill of Rights.

Are you entering the discussion or throwing out trivia?

it was a factual statement. Dont get how to "trivia" that...Just a statement dude.

P.S. this is my thread. I guess I can "enter" it whenever I want?

not trivia, it's a fact

[King Doctor]

it was a factual statement.

Yes. A factual statement of trivia.

[Phatscotty]

it was a factual statement.

Yes. A factual statement of trivia.

you were saying? oh, ok

The constitution does state what the government SHALL NOT DO, over, and over, and over again. What the hell do you think we're free from???

[PLAYER57832]

General Welfare is very unspecific.
And that alone is enough of an argument for the government providing health care.
It may not be technically written in as a power, but the interpretation of the Constitution is how this country moves forward and it is what determines the direction of this country.
You honestly cannot deny that the Constitution is interpreted constantly. We all are aware of what the Supreme Court does.

Yet I will say that the government forcing us to pay for an actual insurance plan instead of just taxing us and giving us the option of using it is not acceptable.

we are also well aware that in the consitution, the words "shall not" and "no" is listed over 30 times concerning restrictions on the gov't. and there are over 20 "nos" and "shall nots" etc... in the Bill of Rights.

True, but its not the number, its the context that is important.

The restraints are to keep people from being oppressed. Just because you think it is OK for corporations to oppress people, but not governments, doesn't mean that this is what the constitution says. All that has happened is that powerful entities that previously would have embedded themselves into the government through monarchies, etc are not doing so through this entity called a "corporation".


... except now, even our right to organize and fight together against these entities is being taken away. Not directly, no, but by ensuring that no one has any other information available, at least not without some very, very VERY serious digging. (and often not even then).

You talk about "Big Brother", but don't even realize you are pushing forward that very agenda.

And it very much hinges upon twisting language so that no one is really sure what is meant by "liberal" or "conservative" or many other terms. They have gone from real words with real meanings to a convenient term for whatever someone wants to attack/support.. regardless of any dictionary or historical use of the terms.

[Phatscotty]

General Welfare is very unspecific.
And that alone is enough of an argument for the government providing health care.
It may not be technically written in as a power, but the interpretation of the Constitution is how this country moves forward and it is what determines the direction of this country.
You honestly cannot deny that the Constitution is interpreted constantly. We all are aware of what the Supreme Court does.

Yet I will say that the government forcing us to pay for an actual insurance plan instead of just taxing us and giving us the option of using it is not acceptable.

we are also well aware that in the consitution, the words "shall not" and "no" is listed over 30 times concerning restrictions on the gov't. and there are over 20 "nos" and "shall nots" etc... in the Bill of Rights.

True, but its not the number, its the context that is important.

The restraints are to keep people from being oppressed. Just because you think it is OK for corporations to oppress people, but not governments, doesn't mean that this is what the constitution says. All that has happened is that powerful entities that previously would have embedded themselves into the government through monarchies, etc are not doing so through this entity called a "corporation".

There were hardly any coroprations in 1776, and you know this. Keep pretending

... except now, even our right to organize and fight together against these entities is being taken away. Not directly, no, but by ensuring that no one has any other information available, at least not without some very, very VERY serious digging. (and often not even then).

The tea party serves as a great example here. Tell me more about our rights to organize are under attack. All ears hun...

The Constitution is hardly to be interpreted and re-interpreted constantly. America had a pretty good record sticking to it's founding for 150 years, becoming the worlds super power and raising the human standard of living to incomprehendable levels. Prices were virtually stable for 150 years.

Every generation lived better than the one before it. Can't really say the same today can you? or can you? I think the next generation will be worse off. It is already a fact the literacy rate has receded below the previous generations levels. Governments track record in America, domestically, is dismal.

[PLAYER57832]

General Welfare is very unspecific.
And that alone is enough of an argument for the government providing health care.
It may not be technically written in as a power, but the interpretation of the Constitution is how this country moves forward and it is what determines the direction of this country.
You honestly cannot deny that the Constitution is interpreted constantly. We all are aware of what the Supreme Court does.

Yet I will say that the government forcing us to pay for an actual insurance plan instead of just taxing us and giving us the option of using it is not acceptable.

we are also well aware that in the consitution, the words "shall not" and "no" is listed over 30 times concerning restrictions on the gov't. and there are over 20 "nos" and "shall nots" etc... in the Bill of Rights.

True, but its not the number, its the context that is important.

The restraints are to keep people from being oppressed. Just because you think it is OK for corporations to oppress people, but not governments, doesn't mean that this is what the constitution says. All that has happened is that powerful entities that previously would have embedded themselves into the government through monarchies, etc are not doing so through this entity called a "corporation".

There were hardly any coroprations in 1776, and you know this. Keep pretending

Ergo the statement "previously .. monarchies". I am saying that corporations today have power akin to nobility in the past.

... except now, even our right to organize and fight together against these entities is being taken away. Not directly, no, but by ensuring that no one has any other information available, at least not without some very, very VERY serious digging. (and often not even then).

The tea party serves as a great example here.

The Tea Party is a bunch of whiners who want to be relieved of paying for things they need, but refuse to come up with any real and true solutions to allow any such thing to happen. They are NOT about freedom, they are about destroying the America my great grandparents, great-great grandparents...etc, etc, etc (some of my family has been here since before this was a country) worked long and hard to achieve. They think they are fighting for themselves, but they are really just kowtowing to what the big corporations want without even realizing that is what they are doing.

Tell me more about our rights to organize are under attack. All ears hun...

Begin with the fact that individuals plain and simply cannot produce the money of large corporations. This was why union organizing and tactics like strikes have been so critical. That was just reversed by the supreme court. Now, they can can run as many ads as they like , funneled in a way that no one even knows where the money is from AND they don't even have to stick to truth.

Add in the fact that too many like you cannot be bothered to research the claims you post, never mind what you voice and believe.

Then:
Unions -- supposedly "destroying America", instead of working for common people against the corporations.

Minimum wage -- would "destroy business".. instead of boosting the living of all working people

Cannot tax the wealthy, even though they have not paid for the costs they encur and we have a HUGE deficit that just plain needs to be reduced.

So, yes, if all the rhetoric being spouted should come to fruition, it very much WILL mean the slide away from individual rights and into a "rights ONLY for those who pay enough money" system.

The Constitution is hardly to be interpreted and re-interpreted constantly.

To bad, it has been.. since the inception.

America had a pretty good record sticking to it's founding for 150 years, becoming the worlds super power and raising the human standard of living to incomprehendable levels. Prices were virtually stable for 150 years.

Price stability had little to do with the constitution. It had to do with the fact that technology advanced only a little (comparatively).

But, during that "wonderful time", we also has slavery, indentured servitude, and working conditions that gave rise to more than a few tales we still read today, including Dickens.

Every generation lived better than the one before it. Can't really say the same today can you? or can you? I think the next generation will be worse off. It is already a fact the literacy rate has receded below the previous generations levels. Governments track record in America, domestically, is dismal.

Easy to live better when you keep using resources at a rapid, unsustainable rate. Easy to live better when you essentially colonize other nations and take their resources, destroy their economies so yours can flourish. Easy to live better when your leaders don't mind selling social security to "balance the budget" and keep getting the nation further into debt rather than tell people that "yes, you actually DO have to pay taxes".

NONE of that is sustainable. Add in the pollution we are just only now beginning to clean up, (but still haven't really limited the production of new pollutants), infrastructure that has not been maintained, loss of farmland, forests and assorted resources that ought to be renewable, were they maintained instead of destroyed... and we have a disaster pending... already here, just not recognized fully yet by the likes of you.

You crowed earlier about recognizing the housing bubble when no one else did.. Got news for you. MOST of us "stupid liberal" saw that several years ago. NPR Planet money was the first commercial broadcast to publish anything of the sort. When you actually understand how the world around you works, it becomes evident that this is just one of many problems we face now... problems mostly still being ignored by the establishment.

[Phatscotty]

excuses.

perhaps one day you can teach me how the world works. Right now I am working on my own existence on this planet and trying to elevate myself so I don't have to work 60 hours a week.

Quick question though, if you were so smart and saw the crash coming, how come you did not see the opposites of the real estate crash, IE gold n silver? why arent you a millionaire? It was the opportunity of a lifetime you know...I mean you kinda said you know, but....

[PLAYER57832]

excuses.

perhaps one day you can teach me how the world works. Right now I am working on my own existence on this planet and trying to elevate myself so I don't have to work 60 hours a week.

Then you had best do something OTHER THAN listen to tea party and right wing idiots, such as you seem to quote constantly. Becuase they are absolutely not working toward getting you those goals.

Quick question though, if you were so smart and saw the crash coming, how come you did not see the opposites of the real estate crash, IE gold n silver? why arent you a millionaire? It was the opportunity of a lifetime you know...I mean you kinda said you know, but....

You have to start with money to get rich that way. I was in school, paying off school debts for a long time. I did capitalize on a small boom, and sold right before that house crashed. But, when you get married, etc.. you are no longer quite to flexible.

I fully admit to having made some major errors in my career decisions, etc. Also, getting rich was never a goal of mine. I have seen wealth destroy far more people than it helps. But not wanting to be rich is very different from accepting that its OK for people to work 40, even 50, 60 hours and STILL not be able to feed, cloth and house their families.

[Phatscotty]

excuses.

perhaps one day you can teach me how the world works. Right now I am working on my own existence on this planet and trying to elevate myself so I don't have to work 60 hours a week.

Then you had best do something OTHER THAN listen to tea party and right wing idiots, such as you seem to quote constantly

Newsflash: I do not quote the Tea Party. The Tea Party quotes Me.
Newsflash: When the Tea Party stepped up on April 15th 2009, I did not think to myself "Wow, these guys have a great message, I will join the Tea Party!"
Newsflash: In reality, it was "FINALLY! THE PEOPLE ARE RISING UP ON THE ISSUES i HAVE RANTING ABOUT FOR YEARS!"

The simple fact that you do not even know the most basic motivations I hold, or more importantly you seem to imply that I have only come to my politics after the Tea Party came into existence, which means in the last 17 months, is absolutely preposterous.

[PLAYER57832]

The simple fact that you do not even know the most basic motivations I hold, or more importantly you seem to imply that I have only come to my politics after the Tea Party came into existence, which means in the last 17 months, is absolutely preposterous.

Motivations? They are no different from anyone else.. you want to be heard. I say you listen to Tea Party, etc because you often quote them directly.

What's preposterous is that you don't bother to verify if your beliefs have any validity before spouting them off.

[Phatscotty]

The simple fact that you do not even know the most basic motivations I hold, or more importantly you seem to imply that I have only come to my politics after the Tea Party came into existence, which means in the last 17 months, is absolutely preposterous.

Motivations? They are no different from anyone else.. you want to be heard. I say you listen to Tea Party, etc because you often quote them directly.

What's preposterous is that you don't bother to verify if your beliefs have any validity before spouting them off.

yeah, you will never find me posting charts or graphs or links.....EVER! absolutely preposterous

NEWSFLASH (***SECOND ATTEMPT) I do not listen to the Tea Party, the Tea Party listens to me.

[PLAYER57832]

NEWSFLASH (***SECOND ATTEMPT) I do not listen to the Tea Party, the Tea Party listens to me.

You think this makes you more intelligent?

[Phatscotty]

Motivations? They are no different from anyone else.. you want to be heard. I say you listen to Tea Party, etc because you often quote them directly.

What's preposterous is that you don't bother to verify if your beliefs have any validity before spouting them off.

yeah, you will never find me posting charts or graphs or links.....EVER! absolutely preposterous
NEWSFLASH (***SECOND ATTEMPT) I do not listen to the Tea Party, the Tea Party listens to me.

You think this makes you more intelligent?

It makes me able to tell you that your assertions are 100% incorrect.

It also makes you deaf because I already told you the Tea Party quotes me. I do not quote them. If you cannot accept that simple truth, then there is no point in discussing anything with someone who does not even hear what I say.

[tzor]

Just finished Common Sense by Glen Beck. A must read for any red blooded American. The first step is to register INDEPENDENT, as both parties are destroying this country.

I know this is a little like post necromancy, but for some reason I never got to read this thread until now. I would say this should be the last thing you should do. Let's face it, what you register has little real effect on anything, but it does have one impact; in many states it allows you to vote in the primaries. By registering as BLANK (in New York, ironically "Independent" is actually a political party, not registering in any party is called a "BLANK" as no party appears on the voter rolls) you deprive yourself the ability to vote in any primary. Thus you should register to the party you feel cloest to and the one you think you have the best chance of changing. It doesn't mean you have to vote for whoever the party selects.

[PLAYER57832]

It also makes you deaf because I already told you the Tea Party quotes me.

Oh, I get it, you are saying your real name is Glenn Beck!

Sorry, but I highly doubt you are in direct contact with any Tea Party leadership. If you are.. then being the originator of idiocy does not make you any more intelligent than listening to it.

And, how would you even know if my assertions are correct or not, since you either cannot be bothered or just don't know how to investigate them (clue.. they are not incorrect).

I do not quote them.

A technicality. You either create or get your information from the same sources. Amounts to the same thing.

If you want to see where your "original ideas" actually came from, try looking into McCarthyism, the John Birch Society, (Buckley had some very pertinent comments, by-the-way, in opposition )... etc.

That you don't even know there IS a history to the ideas you claim you "originated" is pretty telling! I mean, I don't know every liberal or conservative who espoused ideas I espouse (and yep, I DO follow many more ideas espoused by historically conservative idealists, rather than liberals), but I DO NOT claim that they are "my original ideas". I know I came at them from a wide breadth of education I have recieved.


PS. I would like to point out the MAJOR way your "fishing" analogy simply fails.

See, the REASON why most people can no longer hope to get much food by fishing is that industry has been allowed to blatantly destroy river system after river system. Bush, capped it all by declaring that over half of designated wetlands "were not really wetlands". Sure, you can fish all over the East, and if you eat more than one a month, you risk serious health consequences.

YET ANOTHER FAILURE TO TRULY CONSIDER WHAT YOU INSIST IS AVAILABLE TO ALL!

[PLAYER57832]

Just finished Common Sense by Glen Beck. A must read for any red blooded American. The first step is to register INDEPENDENT, as both parties are destroying this country.

Then again, you might try looking into how Glenn Beck got to all his "original" ideas:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =130534982
but ...oops, its not a 2 minute blog, so probably beyond your intellectual capacity to bother with.

I know this is a little like post necromancy, but for some reason I never got to read this thread until now. I would say this should be the last thing you should do. Let's face it, what you register has little real effect on anything, but it does have one impact; in many states it allows you to vote in the primaries. By registering as BLANK (in New York, ironically "Independent" is actually a political party, not registering in any party is called a "BLANK" as no party appears on the voter rolls) you deprive yourself the ability to vote in any primary. Thus you should register to the party you feel cloest to and the one you think you have the best chance of changing. It doesn't mean you have to vote for whoever the party selects.

Anybody who thinks a political party reflects beliefs is an idiot, plain and simply. My church barely reflects my beliefs. My political party? A mere expediency, based on the primary in which I wish to vote. NOTE, too, that in some states independents or other registered voters can vote on any primary ticket. ALSO, a lot of people actually register for the OPPOSITE party from the one of the candidate they want.. they want to pick someone more likely to lose.

[tzor]

I know this is a little like post necromancy, but for some reason I never got to read this thread until now. I would say this should be the last thing you should do. Let's face it, what you register has little real effect on anything, but it does have one impact; in many states it allows you to vote in the primaries. By registering as BLANK (in New York, ironically "Independent" is actually a political party, not registering in any party is called a "BLANK" as no party appears on the voter rolls) you deprive yourself the ability to vote in any primary. Thus you should register to the party you feel cloest to and the one you think you have the best chance of changing. It doesn't mean you have to vote for whoever the party selects.

Anybody who thinks a political party reflects beliefs is an idiot, plain and simply. My church barely reflects my beliefs. My political party? A mere expediency, based on the primary in which I wish to vote. NOTE, too, that in some states independents or other registered voters can vote on any primary ticket. ALSO, a lot of people actually register for the OPPOSITE party from the one of the candidate they want.. they want to pick someone more likely to lose.

I did say "closest" to. While I understand the nature of contrarian registration, that only works in rare cases and generally doesn't work at all (your method is generally effective only in open primary areas where you can either vote for both or switch your party on election day ... in New York if you want to switch parties you have to change your party affiliation before the previous general election so if the primary is in September you had to have your registration changed before the previous November when you don't even know who is running next year).

[PLAYER57832]

(your method is generally effective only in open primary areas where you can either vote for both or switch your party on election day

In no way, shape or form did I indicate this was MY method. It was just one of many reasons I listed that thinking party registration is any indication of personnal beliefs is incorrect. Usually you read more carefully.

[Phatscotty]

It also makes you deaf because I already told you the Tea Party quotes me.

Oh, I get it, you are saying your real name is Glenn Beck!

I don't follow. Please explain which words you are putting in my mouth.

[Phatscotty]

Yep if things carry on like this you may have to cut down on cheeseburgers,new guns and church donations.........crisis crisis crisis

Nah, I'm going to buy a new gun tomorrow. It's a very small an concealable 22 revolver with five shots. It's about 2 by four inches, very nice.

I would have bought it today but the gun store is closed on Sundays...

Exactly
No financial crisis for you and I dont see too much mass starvation in California

how about now?

[notyou2]

Write the chapter and close the book.

It's over.

Nothing to see here people.

Move along.