Gay Adoption

[john9blue]

woody, you don't seem to understand. i don't care that much if someone holds an opinion that is different from mine. in fact, i often learn more from people like that, compared to reading the posts of someone that i already agree with.

if i take the time to get into a heated argument with someone, it's almost always because they are both clearly wrong AND disrespectful. i rarely get into arguments with the conservatives on this forum because they are rarely disrespectful.

[Woodruff]

woody, you don't seem to understand. i don't care that much if someone holds an opinion that is different from mine. in fact, i often learn more from people like that, compared to reading the posts of someone that i already agree with.

if i take the time to get into a heated argument with someone, it's almost always because they are both clearly wrong AND disrespectful. i rarely get into arguments with the conservatives on this forum because they are rarely disrespectful.

Because completely ignoring any discussion point that goes against your worldview is respectful? They may not be abrasively disrespectful, but there is no question that several conservatives here are quite disrespectful.

Your claims of moderateship are a joke.

[Haggis_McMutton]

Eh, I'd much rather have someone call me a moron if they're also actually addressing the issues and explaining why they think I'm being a moron rather than chasing someone like the "respectful" Scotty around for 20 pages without being able to get anything other than propaganda and weaselly statements out of him.
It's like he's a politician in training or something.

[AAFitz]

Oh, cool. I thought I might be because you seem to ignore my questions.

If they were good questions....that happens.

[john9blue]

woody, you don't seem to understand. i don't care that much if someone holds an opinion that is different from mine. in fact, i often learn more from people like that, compared to reading the posts of someone that i already agree with.

if i take the time to get into a heated argument with someone, it's almost always because they are both clearly wrong AND disrespectful. i rarely get into arguments with the conservatives on this forum because they are rarely disrespectful.

Because completely ignoring any discussion point that goes against your worldview is respectful? They may not be abrasively disrespectful, but there is no question that several conservatives here are quite disrespectful.

Your claims of moderateship are a joke.

if you aren't getting through to someone, then either change the way you articulate your ideas, or ignore them.

seriously, if scotty's such a stupid, hopeless lost cause, then why do you keep debating with him? what are you trying to accomplish?

[saxitoxin]

seriously, if scotty's such a stupid, hopeless lost cause, then why do you keep debating with him? what are you trying to accomplish?

I've come to the conclusion Woodruff may be seeing a really bad therapist for anger management who has told him to use CC to vent. What he really needs is a ScreamBody, new from MIT ...

[2dimes]

I'm talking about a little girl having a lot less examples shown to her about how to be a woman or how a woman acts or what a woman is in a household with 2 fathers, and a little boy having a lot less examples shown to him about how to be a man or how a man acts or what a man is like in a household with 2 mothers, amongst hundreds of other extremely important things.

Ok then. My kids are in big trouble. My wife works and I stay home to make breakfast bring the little guy home for lunch. Then make supper for everyone. SometimesI clean the house when nobody is looking. I do mow the lawn but...

And if you had a daughter, and she got her first period, which parent would be best qualified to handle the issue? How about your sons first boner?

Make up your mind. First you complain I'm sharing too much. Now you want to hear about my talks with my daughter?

I am super blessed to still have both my parents. I get along great with my dad.. now because I'm a adult. He did not talk to me about boners, my mom did. He was at work or watching TV. I don't fault him for it he just isn't the kind of guy that wants to chit chat about that sort of thing. So I know where you're going with this and I agree most guys are woefully unprepared for talking to their kids about sexuality even if it isn't a daughter.

As luck would have it the school sent home a consent form to authorize menstration/soon your body will experience changes instruction in "health class." just last week.

I'm thinking, "whoa, they're doing this in grade 4?" Can't they just be kids a little longer? So I left the, "Sign the form so I don't have to embarass myself talking about this sort of thing." parenting to my wife and started talking to our daughter. In defense of my wife, she did do homework with our daughter for the class after so she was fine once the school and I got the ball rolling. She has allready broke out, "Well I don't have one of those things. I don't know how they work." Once when I had to tell her it was fine after the little guy did something in the tub that scared her. So come boner time I'm up to bat.

I'm not the kind of guy that is frightened by such things so I read up on female reproduction extensivly back when I wanted to try to find out what makes females tic. Didn't work, they're much too dynamic so even though I know way more than your average bear. They run on emotional states that depend on too many unknowns. Sometimes their emotions cause more emotions. Too dangerous, fall back!

So yeah your typical dad, "Oh, uh, yeah... You bled out your, um.. thing. Uh daddy doesn't have those parts. Maybe put a sock in it? No wait you have to buy special girl pad things. I can give you a ride to the store but I can't go in. I think it will stop but then it happens again. Don't you have friends you could talk about this with?"

I suspect that's more likely a heterosexual guy that never talks to women about women things. Some of the gay guys have mostly girls as friends. That is how I know I'm not gay. I can't be friends with women. Next thing they'll want to talk their feelings, or periods. I don't want to hear about you retaining water and not feeling "fresh" over appletinis. However even though I get along really great with my kids but I'm their parent not their friends. I tell them the truths as I know it, yet I am not embarrassed if I don't and we need to find another source to educate us both about geology or something.

I don't fear talking about any of those things with my daughter or son. However you're right you need to be bold but still balance that, by making sure have enough trust that they know they can talk to you openly.

But earlier in the thread I wrote that each gender has things to offer both kids that only the can. My son's the one that will suffer when I explain way too much about Fallopian tubes to him. "Dad, that's gross! I'll never touch a woman there."

[2dimes]

One thing I've started early with both my kids. Even though I question it myself a bit. I allways say things like. "Go put on a shirt. In North America you should not be naked unless you're at a nudest colony or with some one you're married to." "You should not have sex with someone unless you're ready to have a baby. Birth control is not 100% you might make a baby." "It's best to be married to someone if you want to have children. You could have a baby with someone you're not married to but it makes things more complicated."

Even though they don't understand fully yet hopfully it helps them think more about things. Later when these things start to be potential factors in life. If my daughter makes a mistake and plays "just the tip." without protection and gets pregnant we will fully support and encourage her and yes even if she chooses to abort.

I am quite pro life and hope she would not kill the fetus but I guess I'm really pro choice, making a baby is a lot of physical commitment. I can't force a woman to do that. Even though I think abortion is really horrible.

[2dimes]

Oh, cool. I thought I might be because you seem to ignore my questions.

If they were good questions....that happens.

It must have been a good one I asked just before I posted that then because he never answered it.

[jonesthecurl]

I'm not convinced that Marriage is important at all.

I think it is. I see the vast difference (generally speaking, of course) between children in school who have two parents and children in school who have one. It is quite striking.

But do the parents have to be married?
(and do they have to be heterosexual?)

[Juan_Bottom]

^ ya, that was my point.

[jonesthecurl]

Yeah. I guess it's the point of the whole thread really.
Also, even tho the poll only gives one way to say "bad idea" and divides the pro votes lots of ways, the antis are still less than half.

[squishyg]

There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding in this thread about the difference between sex and gender. Sex is your anatomical parts. Gender is masculinity/femininity.

In addition, Kinsey anyone? Is a Kinsey scale 4 woman married to a Kinsey scale 2 man qualified to parent?

[AndyDufresne]

One thing I've started early with both my kids. Even though I question it myself a bit. I allways say things like. "Go put on a shirt. In North America you should not be naked unless you're at a nudest colony or with some one you're married to." "You should not have sex with someone unless you're ready to have a baby. Birth control is not 100% you might make a baby." "It's best to be married to someone if you want to have children. You could have a baby with someone you're not married to but it makes things more complicated."

Even though they don't understand fully yet hopfully it helps them think more about things. Later when these things start to be potential factors in life. If my daughter makes a mistake and plays "just the tip." without protection and gets pregnant we will fully support and encourage her and yes even if she chooses to abort.

I am quite pro life and hope she would not kill the fetus but I guess I'm really pro choice, making a baby is a lot of physical commitment. I can't force a woman to do that. Even though I think abortion is really horrible.

For these last two posts of yours, 2dimes, I give you a banana. Good and interesting posts.


--Andy

[Woodruff]

seriously, if scotty's such a stupid, hopeless lost cause, then why do you keep debating with him? what are you trying to accomplish?

Because I despise intentional misinformation and ignorance.

[Woodruff]

I'm not convinced that Marriage is important at all.

I think it is. I see the vast difference (generally speaking, of course) between children in school who have two parents and children in school who have one. It is quite striking.

But do the parents have to be married?
(and do they have to be heterosexual?)

Nope (AOG, I believe, made a good point about that). The key has nothing really to do with their marriage status nor sexuality/gender, but rather to do with their level of involvement. Typically, single-parent homes have more difficulty in finding that quality time because of real life necessities.

[2dimes]

I'm not convinced that Marriage is important at all.

I think it is. I see the vast difference (generally speaking, of course) between children in school who have two parents and children in school who have one. It is quite striking.

But do the parents have to be married?
(and do they have to be heterosexual?)

No. And that has been Woodruff's position for this thread. Fast posted by him.

As for me I do think being married and hetero are positive factors but there are things that are much more important.

Married is between the parent and whomever they are having that relationship with.
I'm human and a highly imperfect one at that. So far I'm sometimes engaging in a healthy heterosexual marriage. IT'S HARD.

As much as your relationships factor into parenting. Being a parent is separate from the other relationships.

You could have a heterosexual married couple that are perfect spouses yet the worst possible parents. Or quite possibly a single homosexual person could be the best parent possible, adoptive or biological.

[2dimes]

There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding in this thread about the difference between sex and gender. Sex is your anatomical parts. Gender is masculinity/femininity.

In addition, Kinsey anyone? Is a Kinsey scale 4 woman married to a Kinsey scale 2 man qualified to parent?

Now we're talking.

Let's explore, race, education, fashion sense, weight, cat person or dog person, favorite colour.

What essentials do we need to determine which people can adopt kids?

Someone set up a lab for this.

[nagerous]

The reality is making the healthy decision to give children to families with a mother and a father, and nothing else.

That's only a reality in the world of the bigot.

Correct

[2dimes]

For these last two posts of yours, 2dimes, I give you a banana. Good and interesting posts.


--Andy

Thanks, I could use some potassium.

[Woodruff]

Now we're talking.

Let's explore, race, education, fashion sense, weight, cat person or dog person, favorite colour.

What essentials do we need to determine which people can adopt kids?

Someone set up a lab for this.

A lab, huh? So why do you assume they're dog people?

[2dimes]

That one took a moment.

[rdsrds2120]

There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding in this thread about the difference between sex and gender. Sex is your anatomical parts. Gender is masculinity/femininity.

In addition, Kinsey anyone? Is a Kinsey scale 4 woman married to a Kinsey scale 2 man qualified to parent?

I think I tried this in a different thread. They all ignored me =(. As for the Kinsey scaling, I really like that question. Bravo.

-rd

[Juan_Bottom]

Long term studies show that there is only one difference between children raised by gay parents and children raised by Hetero parents. Around the age of 12 they go through a gay-phobia phase.

Big deal, I say. I'd wager 1 million dollars that children raised by homosexual parents are more more tolerant and understanding on average than those raised by Heteros. That reward outweighs the petty society-induced phobia phase. Hell it outweighs damn near anything you can teach a child.



*edit misspelled raised

[Lootifer]

Haha I was going to reply to Scottys' absurd posts but f*ck it, he seems to dug his own grave in this thread quite nicely, no need for me to call the proverbial spade a spade (or moron if you will).

Edit: And now PS I am sure I know who's paying your bill; say g'day (thats kiwi/aussie for hi) to Father for me.